Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[#HBC | Laundry]

While we're at it, vote-blocking is inherently anti-town in nature because it will block town's vote more often than not and infringe upon the natural majority that town needs to win the game. It's not a role I'd hand town.

That said, in a game where players can willingly select voteblocking powers via the basic roles, it is null like Gheb admits. Not because of the role itself but simply due to the availability of it.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Huh, they did. Guess I wasn't paying as much attention to the pre-game as I thought I was.

Gog though Ruy, you may have somethin', this seems mad convenient.

**** dabunz

 

[Dabuz]

Gog though Ruy, you may have somethin', this seems mad convenient.

**** dabunz

Lol.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Lol.

#gotem

game's too ez pls gova turn up difficulty

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ #HBC | Scary : You were in a newbie game flurry the last time I was present in DGames, can you tell me what you feel is the biggest thing that helps you play this game with (I assume) more games under your belt?

Been working on figuring out intent and generally asking more questions when I can. I think it helps me. Otherwise, just have fun lol.

 

[Vult Redux]

Vote: Vult Redux

Volt, i've never seen you play before, what's your mafia experience?

I have a little bit I guess.

what's your mafia experience?

While we're at it, vote-blocking is inherently anti-town in nature because it will block town's vote more often than not and infringe upon the natural majority that town needs to win the game. It's not a role I'd hand town.

there's also the fact that losing a vote makes a player more likely to flake as their opinions are less likely to make a difference.

 

[Dabuz]

I have a little bit I guess.

Anything else? As in, how many games, irl or onlline?

[quote="Vult Redux, post: 16329457, member: 168004"
what's your mafia experience?
[/quote]

Have about a dozen games online.

 

[Jdietz43]

Gova won't even answer me in PM...

I'm just going to have to assume it's as stated and he changed it entirely arbitrarily to the reverse of OS's role intent, but I swear if someone dies from it I will blacklist Gova 5ever. Not even joking.

*actually pretty mad irl about how this has been handled*

 

[Jdietz43]

Ok, Thank you.

@ Gova

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Before you ask Scary, I think it's polite to give your thoughts on it.

It might be polite, but it's not conducive to reads.

He's right in saying that it's just #HBC. I wanted to see if he would come to that conclusion given how recent he is to DG.

 

[Jdietz43]

While we're at it, vote-blocking is inherently anti-town in nature because it will block town's vote more often than not and infringe upon the natural majority that town needs to win the game. It's not a role I'd hand town.

That said, in a game where players can willingly select voteblocking powers via the basic roles, it is null like Gheb admits. Not because of the role itself but simply due to the availability of it.

Having the role is technically null, but I'd still argue going for the role is anti-town. When I was going through the list of choices I definitely earmarked a few of them as roles I would see scum being attracted to moreso than town such as Gadgeteer or Archer lvl. 2.

I would definitely argue voteblocking is an anti-town move simply because with the amount of available methods there are to voteblock it is quite possible to force a Day to end in a no lynch and gain a free nightkill. For this reason I almost consider Illusionist pro-town... almost.

 

[Jdietz43]

Town shouldn't be so confident in their reads that they risk voteblocking a town player needed for vote majority.

Might be, but shouldn't.

 

[Dabuz]

What do you think about Thief's level 2? (Steal heart)

Also, why do you think Archer's level 2 is anti-town?

 

[Dabuz]

It might be polite, but it's not conducive to reads.

He's right in saying that it's just #HBC. I wanted to see if he would come to that conclusion given how recent he is to DG.

@ #HBC | Scary

What was your first game in DG?

 

[Jdietz43]

I feel like Thief lvl 2 is largely anti-town. You'd have to be dead certain both the player you're using it on and the player you're pointing them at is scum or you're railroading town members on a lynch. You shouldn't be that certain on two people unless the mod PM told you who your mates were or you had an ability that lets you investigate them (which would have to be an ability NOT on the list, aka way unlikely that someone has a lvl 1 investigate mandatorily given and a lvl 2 open).

As for the Archer's lvl 2 it's anti-town because to get proper use out of it you have to expect that you're going to get votes on you. You're either expecting your play to be bad enough people misread you, OR you're scum and expect to be voted. The second is more likely since anyone with a spine should be trying to play to their strengths and not using an ability to cover a weakness of being misread.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Time Mage is the strongest anti-town class and I'm not sure about how good a class it is for town. Gadgeteer seems like a pretty good town role, Archer looks kinda useless for either alignment and with either skill. Original FFT mafia had a lot of Dragoon Jumps though the Ninja lvl 2 seems a lot more obnoxious for scum to deal with. Though this class speculation is kinda dumb since anybody with half a brain will realize that class claim are null.

 

[Dabuz]

Agreed about the Thief level 2, i'd venture to say it's essentially a vote block.

Archer's level 2 is null. Scum can and do strive to play well enough not to be voted and as either alignment I don't think a player would want to be voted. Considering it can't be used with killing abilities or one shots (AKA the really powerful abilities) , I struggle to see why a scummy player would pick such a risky ability.

 

[Jdietz43]

Time Mage is the strongest anti-town class and I'm not sure about how good a class it is for town. Gadgeteer seems like a pretty good town role, Archer looks kinda useless for either alignment and with either skill. Original FFT mafia had a lot of Dragoon Jumps though the Ninja lvl 2 seems a lot more obnoxious for scum to deal with. Though this class speculation is kinda dumb since anybody with half a brain will realize that class claim are null.

I call BS on class choice being null...

Don't even try and tell me Archer lvl 1 wouldn't be baller for scum though. I personally was going to go Archer lvl 1/Assasin lvl 2 if I got scum and just start peppering later night phases with kills.

Gadgeteer looks like a role that could be used either way, but it would be 10 times easier to use it as a scum role since you know how many of your mates you're helping/hurting right away

 

[Dabuz]

Time Mage is the strongest anti-town class and I'm not sure about how good a class it is for town. Gadgeteer seems like a pretty good town role, Archer looks kinda useless for either alignment and with either skill. Original FFT mafia had a lot of Dragoon Jumps though the Ninja lvl 2 seems a lot more obnoxious for scum to deal with. Though this class speculation is kinda dumb since anybody with half a brain will realize that class claim are null.

I find myself on the side of that coin that gadgeteer is something scum would lean towards, especially early on it affects so many people and it's likely to hit more townies than scum in any given Night.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How is vote-blocking pro-Town?

People need to stop assuming that Voteblockers are meant to deal exclusively with scum. It's like a Vig that you can freely target townies with as well.

By that logic, do you think any abilities under the choosable class abilities are null due to both alignments having access to them?

I think that's generally the case for most roles except for the Time Mage. It looks borderline broken in the hands of scum.

 

[Jdietz43]

Like seriously Gheb, you can't look me in the eye and tell me 100% all possible class combinations are null tells.

I.e. If a slot is claiming lvl 1 Defender/lvl 2 Summoner at the very least that class combo is pro town as hell even if the claim can be fake

 

[Jdietz43]

Similarly if someone came in with lvl 1 Alchemist/ lvl 2 Thief I'd just be like "Wow you didn't even try to fake-claim"

 

[Dabuz]

I think the difference in this game is that while there are quite a few classes or combos that are pro-scum (ie time mage), there are only a handful that scream pro-town. Even classes to prevent NKs are null because town has access to picking Assassin's level 2 and who knows if town has other ways to NK scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I call BS on class choice being null...

I consider it largely null. If you really wanna dig into the WIFOM muck of whether somebody picked dragoon as a townie or scumbag then that's your issue. Most roles are good for town. Some are so obviously anti-town that nobody would claim that role. Class claims are worthless and to be treated as null. End of discussion.

I.e. If a slot is claiming lvl 1 Defender/lvl 2 Summoner at the very least that class combo is pro town as hell even if the claim can be fake

It's also pro-scum in the hands of the mafia. That's how this game works.

Similarly if someone came in with lvl 1 Alchemist/ lvl 2 Thief I'd just be like "Wow you didn't even try to fake-claim"

Why? Having control over your own vote and that of two other players is awesome for a townie.

 

[Jdietz43]

Yeah, but pretty much no matter how many times you say it, I'm still going to have an opinion on how probable a town pick a role combo is even if there are potential reasons to play otherwise. You've gotta weigh how likely it is scum would go for the "maybe helpful to us" over "OMG TIME MAGE LOL DOUBLEKILL", and there are definitely some clear choices that probably at least one of the scum went for.

 

[Jdietz43]

It's also pro-scum in the hands of the mafia. That's how this game works.


Why? Having control over your own vote and that of two other players is awesome for a townie.

I agree they could both be used tactically by scum, but it's less likely than other roles.


Also disagree. It's awesome if you use it right, but there's a greater chance you used it wrong and just forced town into a situation where they have to mislynch or not lynch at all.

 

[Jdietz43]

I consider it largely null. If you really wanna dig into the WIFOM muck of whether somebody picked dragoon as a townie or scumbag then that's your issue. Most roles are good for town. Some are so obviously anti-town that nobody would claim that role. Class claims are worthless and to be treated as null. End of discussion.

(I lol'd at the underlined)

Also yes, you can treat claims as null. I will not be treating actual roles as null however.

 

[Dooms]

Posting to subscribe. #yolo

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's why I said class claims should be treated as null in my #216 @ Jdietz43

 

[Jdietz43]

That's why I said class claims should be treated as null in my #216 @ Jdietz43

Yeah, I missed that fine detail... my mind just jumped to "all classes are null" and I was just "no way"

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Lol.

You really shouldn't be going lol here, I think that is telling when I pointed out how people did point out that slot was a hydra and called it Marshy directly yet you claimed you read pregame.

It's makes your question at that slot a lot more suspicious.

 

[Dabuz]

You really shouldn't be going lol here, I think that is telling when I pointed out how people did point out that slot was a hydra and called it Marshy directly yet you claimed you read pregame.

It's makes your question at that slot a lot more suspicious.

Once again, LOL. If you have a reason to think me being a derp and asking that question is suspicious, then please, go right ahead and explain. Until then I will continue to find this funny.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I have a little bit I guess.

don't be modest

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Having the role is technically null, but I'd still argue going for the role is anti-town. When I was going through the list of choices I definitely earmarked a few of them as roles I would see scum being attracted to moreso than town such as Gadgeteer or Archer lvl. 2.

I would definitely argue voteblocking is an anti-town move simply because with the amount of available methods there are to voteblock it is quite possible to force a Day to end in a no lynch and gain a free nightkill. For this reason I almost consider Illusionist pro-town... almost.

Fair enough.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Also can't believe I am saying this of all people.

****.
Class.
Discussion.

Don't worry about it unless you think it relates to how someone is playing, otherwise look at people right now and less on which role is anti or pro town.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And then we just talk about roles and ignore the fact that Gheb's not responding to anything J or I laid into him for so he can talk about mechanical **** like how roles and claims should work.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

(I lol'd at the underlined)

Also yes, you can treat claims as null. I will not be treating actual roles as null however.

Got any early reads?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Also can't believe I am saying this of all people.

****.
Class.
Discussion.

Don't worry about it unless you think it relates to how someone is playing, otherwise look at people right now and less on which role is anti or pro town.

Quality post.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Once again, LOL. If you have a reason to think me being a derp and asking that question is suspicious, then please, go right ahead and explain. Until then I will continue to find this funny.

ok.

Vote: Dabuz

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Is there a reason why we're discussing which classes are anti-town or not? I don't see the point in discussing these types of things so early when we should be focusing on actually pulling off a successful day 1 lynch. That's just me though.

Gheb's play is really weird. I'm not sure why he's over reacting as much as he is. Need to read more in depth when I'm not dealing with band ****.

Hello everyone! Hope we have a great game together!