Data FINAL: Confirmed 1.0.6 Patch Notes

[*JuriHan*]

Lol this character is still really good and has no issue building damage. B-throw nerf sucks for sure, (edit: It was nerfed pretty bad...) Important thing is it still gets the opponent off the stage so you can either hunt them down with Sonic's strong offstage game or gimp them with a spring.

Whatever they did with his dash/slowing down from a foxtrot, I see this as a tremendous buff for Sonic's ground game and footsies. Now he has even more mobility on the ground and can control space easier/harass better with f-tilt, jab, etc.

He's taken a hit but he's still great. Sonic didn't lose all of his rings! :D

 

[Espy Rose]

To be fair, Pre-patch sonic was easily better than Luigi, ZSS, Yoshi and Fox.

As much as it makes me sad to see these nerfs, Sonic is still the same character with a slightly less incredible punish game (and his punish game was probably the best out of the entire cast anyway) and having to work a bit harder for the K.O's. Sonics game is based pretty much entirely on his mobility, which has been unchanged (and if we count HA as mobility, it's been buffed) so he will still be a top character.

Sonic was worse than ZSS and Fox pre-patch.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I think they're all arguably better or just as good before the patch. They're definitely better than him now, imo. From what I've seen, bthrow is really unreliable. Like fthrow, it seems very di dependent if you get the kill from it. Was living at 130 consistently as Mewtwo against Sonic who was around 100-110 at the ledge on omega stages. Unless mewtwo is heavier than I thought. I've heard he's right down there with Rosalina in weight.

 

[Gregory2590]

I'm not sure about that really. I killed a Fox an hour ago at 75% while he was at 118~(before damage was applied) on an Omega stage. It's really not so different than it was before.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

He di'd really poorly then. It's like killing with fthrow. If they di wrong, it looks like a decent ko move. If they di properly, the **** doesn't kill until like 180.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Bthrow is kinda **** right now, I think (only played a few laggy FG matches). We got nerfed hard while some other top and A tiers didn't or barely got touched.

First jump being higher is fake. I found a video with some testing I did waaaay back in January and shall look closely into it after I come back from work.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, I noticed nothing different with Sonic's mobility.

I need to do more DI testing with Bthrow… Sometimes I felt like it was killing fine around 120%, but I feel like rage and DI are such bigger factors now than they were and people are sort of underplaying this.

It'll still body scrubs, so they'll keep crying and we'll get nerfed harder again.

 

[spiNR]

Haven't been able to test anything much, but I agree that Rage and DI are the biggest factors determining the viability of KO moves in this game.

 

[Myst_R]

Do we have any data about Uthrow ? I feel it's better knockback

 

[IWinToLose]

Poor Sonic... BThrow getting a nerf really hurts Sonic's game. I was using it and it didn't kill until FThrow %'s (staled it a bit trying to kill them with it though).

Think of it this way:

You now need to land approximately 50% more SD/SC as you did before to get them to the OLD KO % for your Throws. Now you need to land... wait for it... nearly DOUBLE the SD/SC as you did for the NEW KO %. Obviously there's a lot of variation with SD/SC damage depending on where you hit them, which aerial you can connect if any at all, etc. However, this means that Sonic needs to work roughly twice as hard for his BThrow KO's.

Compared to Diddy who can still do ~30% DThrow Combos and bring you to 46% in 2 Throws, Diddy only needs to land 1-2 extra throws or bananas to KO you (although no more Hoo Haa kills).

Sheik was nerfed (BAir damage/knockback) but damage output still the same (needs to land about 2 more attacks to bring opponents to the new KO %). Pikachu was pretty much untouched. ZSS and Rosalina were untouched.

I'm sorry but I don't see Sonic even being in A tier anymore. IMO he will be the top of B Tier. Sonic was a medium risk high reward character. Now he's a medium risk, medium reward character. He was nerfed the hardest along with Diddy. He now needs to land twice as many SD/SC as he used to and against good players, it will be twice as difficult. Obviously you can still FSmash, YOLO Up Smash, and BAir before 140% to net the KO, but good opponents will rarely get wrecked by these options (except a good air read BAir, but characters like Sheik have far too many recovery options for you to consistently pull the read off) and you may get punished really hard for these options.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Exactly how I feel atm, but I dunno, haven't played much yet.

 

[Espy Rose]

Pikachu's ledge mechanics were removed. He's far from untouched.

 

[Locuan]

Pikachu's ledge mechanics were removed. He's far from untouched.

You mean the Quick Attack Cancels on ledges? (Pikachu noob here)

 

[Espy Rose]

Pikachu doesn't have the shorter ledge snap animations anymore, from what I've been hearing.

 

[IWinToLose]

Pikachu doesn't have the shorter ledge snap animations anymore, from what I've been hearing.

This shouldn't have a large impact on Pikachu's game.

 

[Espy Rose]

This shouldn't have a large impact on Pikachu's game.

That's a funny way of saying "Now every opponent we play no longer has to worry about changing the timing on any of their edgeguards."

 

[Camalange]

He had shorter ledge snap animations?

I knew I hated that character for more reasons than the obvious.

I'm assuming QAC wasn't touched, though.

 

[Furret]

Nerfs

• Knockback nerfs:
  • Utilt2 (lol);

probably should go under buffs, depending on whether of not the move can still start combos

 

[Espy Rose]

He had shorter ledge snap animations?

I knew I hated that character for more reasons than the obvious.

I'm assuming QAC wasn't touched, though.

Same as it was in Brawl. Pikachu was only stuck on the ledge for half the time as every other character in the game.

 

[Camalange]

Same as it was in Brawl. Pikachu was only stuck on the ledge for half the time as every other character in the game.

Huh.

Never knew that. Granted, I never had to play against very many Pikachus back in the day.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

probably should go under buffs, depending on whether of not the move can still start combos

Well, it's still a KB nerf nonetheless..

 

[Furret]

Well, it's still a KB nerf nonetheless..

true enough

 

[Kinetik07]

You guys remember this slide thing at the ledge?

http://gfycat.com/UnhealthyHeavenlyFlyingfish

It's a lot easier to do it consistently with the new a+b smash mechanic. Just do this http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32rxnu/easy_pivoting_discovery/ but instead of doing perfect pivot, you pivot with c-stick after a turnaround at the ledge

inputs: hold a+b(during rolls or something) > run forward > turnaround at the ledge > c-stick forward just before starting the run animation.

It's kinda awkward to hold the controller and you won't be able to attack until you let go of a+b, but I just thought I'd let you guys know. useless techs +1

 

[J.APS]

inputs: hold a+b(during rolls or something) > run forward > turnaround at the ledge > c-stick forward just before starting the run animation.

It's kinda awkward to hold the controller and you won't be able to attack until you let go of a+b, but I just thought I'd let you guys know. useless techs +1

that's awful.
there is no way to put A+B in one button?
It will be alot easier if you can put that in one button

 

[Jasku]

Am I the only one who feels that USmash has been nerfed?

 

[Mega-Spider]

Sonic was originally my third best character. Now I'm moving him to fourth best because of this update. While I'm not too bummed about Spin Dash getting nerfed when it comes to damage, I am a little bummed that his back throw was nerfed. That gets rid of one good killing option. Still, Sonic has a lot of killing options, but I would have preferred it if Sonic didn't get nerfed much, but Rosalina and Luma did, because they're still ridiculous.

 

[J.APS]

Am I the only one who feels that USmash has been nerfed?

It feels more like a knockback nerf...

 

[Kinetik07]

that's awful.
there is no way to put A+B in one button?
It will be alot easier if you can put that in one button

Nope, not until they let us map smash attacks to a single button rather than just c-stick.
I just mapped my attack and special to R and Z (or you can do R and L) to make it easy to hold, but I don't see that being a viable control scheme, especially when most people are changing their c-stick to do tilts.

 

[VKatana]

This patch is a disappointment as far as I'm concerned. All the people I've spoken to it about justify nerfing good characters simply because the characters were good. I hope these aren't the kind of people Nintendo listens to.
I wish they'd have given some kind of nerf to ZSS's up b as well as projectiles/items in general like ROB's gyro and Peach's turnips. I'm so ****ing tired of all these cancerous campy players winning by just camping and then getting one grab and ending the stock off of it. It's seriously making me consider dropping this game.

 

[J.APS]

Nope, not until they let us map smash attacks to a single button rather than just c-stick.
I just mapped my attack and special to R and Z (or you can do R and L) to make it easy to hold, but I don't see that being a viable control scheme, especially when most people are changing their c-stick to do tilts.

Ok it's official, it sucks.

This patch is a disappointment as far as I'm concerned. All the people I've spoken to it about justify nerfing good characters simply because the characters were good. I hope these aren't the kind of people Nintendo listens to.
I wish they'd have given some kind of nerf to ZSS's up b as well as projectiles/items in general like ROB's gyro and Peach's turnips. I'm so ****ing tired of all these cancerous campy players winning by just camping and then getting one grab and ending the stock off of it. It's seriously making me consider dropping this game.

What I really hate about ZSS UpB is when they combined with the NeutralB, if the UpB starts a little farther, it drag you into it :/
I need to check if it still drag you with the patch...

 

[J.APS]

PD:I don't see the option to eliminate this D:

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I'm hoping once the raw data for the patch is dumped and decrypted that we can shift through it and hopefully find some sort of buff. Hard to tell his his dsmash got better or not but i've been able to take stocks a lot easier with the front hitbox which was the weaker of the two for his dsmash. I'm just angry with the nerf to his spin dashes as a whole. The reduction in damage has an effect on hitstun to some degree which makes things a lot stricter with getting spin charge to dair spikes.

That and the fact that they couldn't even, or just didn't even bother to fix BSBS as some sort of compensation for the nerfs they gave him. Instead they fixed the floating spin dash glitch and spring jump item toss glitch which both of which are very situational and just as much as the spring warp glitch which is still in the game.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic's smashes all feel the same...

Instead they fixed the floating spin dash glitch

They did?

Which one? lol

 

[Sonic Orochi]

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT

I've discovered a new thing:

Spoiler

Dair spike knockback was NERFED

Spoiler

At least the % I've been testing from this post don't work anymore. Even with the added 6% we already lost on the SDR and SDJ.

 

[J.APS]

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT

I've discovered a new thing:

Spoiler

Dair spike knockback was NERFED

Spoiler

At least the % I've been testing from this post don't work anymore. Even with the added 6% we already lost on the SDR and SDJ.

Wait...Whaaaaaaaaaat?
hope still kills with 60% in "normal" characters :s
I need to test this...

 

[*JuriHan*]

Am I the only one who feels that USmash has been nerfed?

Yes you are. Still kills well, even early with rage

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

figures.....i hoped they would buff dair and instead they nerf it......

 

[Sonic Orochi]

First jump being higher is fake. I found a video with some testing I did waaaay back in January and shall look closely into it after I come back from work.

Tested everything. Single jump, double jump, VSJ, VSDJ, SHSDJ, SDSCJ, Spring, etc etc.

Same thing as pre-patch.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i still feel like something is different as far as his mobility goes. Could just be the fact that he no longer slows down and needs to speed up again from a turn around during a run.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I hate saying this but, yeah, Sonic feels faster turning around.