Fighting a Marth

[ApolloX54]

My friend is better than me at SSBM with only certain characters. His best is Falco, and recently after learning how to Shinespike, I dominate his Falco. So he moved to Marth and I can never get a hit in on that freaking disjointed hitbox. Is there any advice or ways to put the advantage in my favor?

How do you come back, cause he edge guards like hell.

 

[Dalal]

The disjointed hitbox moves are strong, but nothing comes for free. Marth's moves have a lot of ending lag, so you can punish it if he ever misses you. Try dashing towards the Marth, then wavedashing back. Get him to attack. AS SOON AS you see him attack dash towards him and drillshine + WD, and follow up with another drillshine, or another move. You can do all sorts of combos on Marth since he slides from the shine. Your ultimate goal should be to get Marth off the stage and underneath the ledge, because then you get to use the 'special' ASDI Shield move, or do an invincible shine spike from the ledge.

Another thing to do is to shield slide - dash towards the Marth and put up your shield. You'll slide a little bit into him. If he tries using a sword attack, he'll lag and you can JC up-smash and start comboing him.

Hmm, what else? Use a lot of JC Grabs. Because a lot of Marth's moves have a large startup lag, you can grab before the move can damage you. Just dash, X+Z, and you got him.

About the edge-guarding situation, if Marth is edge-guarding while standing on the stage (with an f-smash or something), try sweetspotting the edge from below (or get as close to sweetspotting as possible). The advantage of doing this is you can edge tech. Just tap R as you approach the edge. As soon as you reach the edge and Marth is about to hit you, jam the control stick towards the edge, and then roll it upwards. If you did this correctly, you will edge tech walljump, and then you can illusion safely onto the stage.

 

[ApolloX54]

What is the Special ASDI Shield move?

How do you do an invincible shield spike?

 

[Dalal]

If a Marth is recovering from below the stage, you should set up for an edge hog. The 'Special ASDI Shield' move is a technique to edgehog with no risk. To do it, you should first get Marth off the stage. After he's off, hold R, and tap the control stick towards the edge. Then while you are in the middle of your roll quickly let go of R and start holding Z. While holding Z continue rolling until you cannot roll any further (you are right on the edge). Continue holding Z (you should currently be in the light shield) while you slowly tilt the control stick down towards the edge (for example if you are on the right edge you should hold the control stick down and right). Now, when Marth tries to recover with his Up+B, it will touch your shield and cause you to drop. At this point, let go of the control stick and let yourself drop. You'll immediately hang on to the edge. If the Marth didn't get high enough he will get edge hogged and you get a cool K.O. It's fun to use this against Marth when you get the chance. And what's funny is that THEY know they couldn't have done a thing to avoid it. It's annoying for them.

Shine spiking while you are invincible - To attain invincibility, you need to wavedash backwards onto the ledge. When you grab the ledge you automatically gain about half a second of invincibility. Use this invincibility wisely. When you see someone recovering immediately grab the ledge, then drop down and shine spike them (or you can ledge hop if they try and recover above you). Using invincibility frames from the ledge is a common method of shine-spiking and works well.

 

[ApolloX54]

Thanks that really helps!

Sorry if I ask to many questions, but is there any way to wavedash easier. Cause for me I only do it when I'm not really thinking about it. If that makes since.

 

[leafgreen386]

Practice. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

[y2kbakura]

The disjointed hitbox moves are strong, but nothing comes for free. Marth's moves have a lot of ending lag, so you can punish it if he ever misses you. Try dashing towards the Marth, then wavedashing back. Get him to attack. AS SOON AS you see him attack dash towards him and drillshine + WD, and follow up with another drillshine, or another move.

this is a really good techinique exepct that a good marth can Smash DI awy from the hits of the infinite and interrrupt you with his up-B its better just to stop at the frist hit and go for a grab and mcloud flip or after perfect waveshine dashed JC upsmash

 

[King Axel]

No Problemo

I've actually had no problems with a Marth yet. To me, he seems slower and less likely to counter against Fox's quick strikes.

 

[ApolloX54]

Practice makes perfect, I guess.

 

[FastFox]

Don't forget the U-Airs. They **** Marth more than a 40 year old.

 

[Kirakitsune]

Use dashdancing and wavedhing to make him whiff, and attack his high lag. Try to avoid double-jumping over him if he's good at intercepting with aerials. He's got high priority. Use your lasers to make him come to you, and your shine for spacing. And try to ledgetech if he edgeguards with an fsmash.

 

[ApolloX54]

This is a lot to take in cause I usually just go all out and hope for my speed to give the advantage....lol

 

[RaynEX]

nair works wonders for me. He's pretty floaty, so at over 30% you can string in together 3 Shffled nairs no problem, and end with any full hop move on the 4th. It works alot, surprisingly.

 

[NG7]

Just a small thing Dalal, but are you sure you can DI while you're inside a shield? I was pretty sure it was just the knockback of dolphin slash knocking you onto the edge.

Most people call this tech shieldhog or light-shield edge hog.

 

[Lucid]

you'll need to practice your DI and u should manage to get back i would suggest going on training mode slowing down the speed jumping off and aiming your up B towards the edge.

 

[iowasmasher]

all i can say is laser spam and never go near a small stage! FD is a good one also, a good combo to try is the upthrow to upair juggle, or just a plain old upsmash

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just a small thing Dalal, but are you sure you can DI while you're inside a shield? I was pretty sure it was just the knockback of dolphin slash knocking you onto the edge.

Most people call this tech shieldhog or light-shield edge hog.

the DI isnt while in the shield, its after it hits you and makes you fall you have to FF a little bit, and if u dont hold away you wont really make it either. something like that lol

 

[ApolloX54]

This is good cause I really don't have a problem with the Links. I am practicing against the stupid level 9 marth now.

Wow, he's an idiot...

 

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

general tips vs marth:

--learn to tech and DI every throw otherwise you get gimped at low %s by fthrow->fsmash.

--uthrow->uair x 1000. make them whine about it.

--practice drillshine->usmash for the kill.

--if possible you can try playing a stage with low vertical boundary so you can get usmash kos more easily.

--try to keep the action in the center of the stage so when you DO get hit by the fsmash (make sure you know how to DI it--DI perpendicular to the direction you're hit), you might survive.

--his dtilt is deceptively fast and not really that punishable. watch out, he might pull an fsmash right after one.

--blaster spam from far away to make him come to you, hopefully being too hasty and leaving an opening.

--try playing more defensively in general - make him whiff, then punish him for it.

--avoid FD if he can chainthrow because of 0-death "omg imba" combos.

--counterpick onett = instant win.

 

[leafgreen386]

--blaster spam from far away to make him come to you, hopefully being too hasty and leaving an opening.

More specifically shl spam. If you just rapidly tap B there's a good chance you won't react in time to stop it and end up leaving yourself open.

 

[Miharu]

all i can say is laser spam and never go near a small stage! FD is a good one also, a good combo to try is the upthrow to upair juggle, or just a plain old upsmash

Small stages are better for Fox, since the "small" stages also have platforms, which allows for easier uaring, and Marth dies earlier on smaller stages from uair/usmash.

 

[leafgreen386]

Those same platforms can spell for a fmash tipper for Marth. There's a reason YS and Battlefield are Marth levels. They're easier to kill on, and the platforms help Marth with comboing.

And a large stage can have a small ceiling. For example, Corneria. On the flip side, a small stage can have a large ceiling: such as YS.

 

[ApolloX54]

Alright I've devised new tactics against Marth derived from his lag.

I spot dodge a lot and I over use it purpose to trick him when I need to.I works like a charm because he usually does a jumping Neutral B and it an easy Down grab to usmash or uthrow to uair...and if he is at low percentages I just chuck him off. Sometimes I can trick him into a shinespike...

It's great!

 

[Moggie]

Isn't Corneria banned ? Or am I confusing that with something else ?

Apollo, my best friend mains Marth against my Fox all the time. My suggestion is to try and keep to the middle of the stage if possible (use u-airs here). You don't want to be near the edges against Marth UNLESS you are being offensive and have momentum.

My other big advice all Fox's need against Marth : Shield is your friend. If Marth likes to grab, as he should, then shield--->spot-dodge is your friend.

shffl d-air--> waveshine--> grab--> u-throw--> u-air ALWAYS works too.

 

[thesage]

No corneria isn't banned! Why do you think one of my mains is Ness?

 

[Overswarm]

Small stages are better for Fox, since the "small" stages also have platforms, which allows for easier uaring, and Marth dies earlier on smaller stages from uair/usmash.

Fox has a great recovery, both vertical and horizontal, unlike Marth who really only has a good horizontal recovery (his vertical recovery is compromised severely by any hit, edgehog, or light shield "marth killer" use).

Picking small stages lets Marth destroy your use of recovery with minimal effort.

Pick stages with larger horizontal walls, but shorter ceilings, like fountain of dreams, battlefield, pokemon stadium, green greens, or kongo jungle (the DK rap one).




Oh, and my friend Tim doesn't actually need that wheelchair. Some drunk girls put it on the 3rd floor here and we do not know where it came from, but it has been here a week.

 

[Brookman]

My friend is better than me at SSBM with only certain characters. His best is Falco, and recently after learning how to Shinespike, I dominate his Falco. So he moved to Marth and I can never get a hit in on that freaking disjointed hitbox. Is there any advice or ways to put the advantage in my favor?

How do you come back, cause he edge guards like hell.

Stop trying to shine spike his marth and just up smash him. It will work.

Practice. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Wrong.

this is a really good techinique exepct that a good marth can Smash DI awy from the hits of the infinite and interrrupt you with his up-B its better just to stop at the frist hit and go for a grab and mcloud flip or after perfect waveshine dashed JC upsmash

You can still combo a marth if they DI your drill/shine as long as your are wavedashing out of your shine quickly. Or, if you know they try to DI your shine just upsmash them.

I've actually had no problems with a Marth yet. To me, he seems slower and less likely to counter against Fox's quick strikes.

Play good people, GG.

nair works wonders for me. He's pretty floaty, so at over 30% you can string in together 3 Shffled nairs no problem, and end with any full hop move on the 4th. It works alot, surprisingly.

Play good people, GG.

you'll need to practice your DI and u should manage to get back i would suggest going on training mode slowing down the speed jumping off and aiming your up B towards the edge.

Practicing DI is a good idea, though he can only really do that vs. his friend, and would have to learn what DI is first, and which way he should DI what moves in what situations, etc. There is no need to slow down the game in training mode, just play at regular speed so you get used to making good recovery decisions at the normal game speed.

all i can say is laser spam and never go near a small stage! FD is a good one also, a good combo to try is the upthrow to upair juggle, or just a plain old upsmash

Play good people, GG.

This is good cause I really don't have a problem with the Links. I am practicing against the stupid level 9 marth now.

Wow, he's an idiot...

Just play level 1's, that way you don't need to deal with their stupid power shielding and grabbing you out of every attack. Playing any CPU's should really just be to practice moving/drill/wave/whatever shining. Pracitcing shffl'ing into the shine and wavedashing out as smoothly as possible. You can use their invincibilty frames when they respawn to simulate a shield.

Small stages are better for Fox, since the "small" stages also have platforms, which allows for easier uaring, and Marth dies earlier on smaller stages from uair/usmash.

Playing on small stages (or anywhere for that matter) is a double-edged sword. Just as certain stages give fox certain advantages they also give marth (and pretty much every other character advantages as well) which is why Leafgreen said:

Those same platforms can spell for a fmash tipper for Marth. There's a reason YS and Battlefield are Marth levels. They're easier to kill on, and the platforms help Marth with comboing.

And a large stage can have a small ceiling. For example, Corneria. On the flip side, a small stage can have a large ceiling: such as YS.

Though I guess YS = Yoshi's Story? which has got one of the lowest ceilings in the game >_> Yoshi's Story is a great fox stage, but it is also a great Marth stage, this is where "Being Good" comes into play.

 

[Deleted member]

or you could just play good people.

 

[RedYoshi92]

practice DI and avoid chainthrows in this matchup.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

I have a quick question about the waveshine to grab on marth. Everyone says to waveshine and then dash to get to marth for a grab. I've been trying it out in training mode, but it just doesn't feel right to shine, wavedash, and return the control stick to neutral so I can bring it back out again for the dash. Is that how you do it?

 

[Zgetto]

I have a quick question about the waveshine to grab on marth. Everyone says to waveshine and then dash to get to marth for a grab. I've been trying it out in training mode, but it just doesn't feel right to shine, wavedash, and return the control stick to neutral so I can bring it back out again for the dash. Is that how you do it?

do you use a jc-grab when you dash forward?
because the way you explained it is the right way.
the way i do it is just:
waveshine forwards and then quickly dash and jc grab at the same time(so you will slide forward and grab at the same time)

 

[EnigmaticCam]

do you use a jc-grab when you dash forward?
because the way you explained it is the right way.
the way i do it is just:
waveshine forwards and then quickly dash and jc grab at the same time(so you will slide forward and grab at the same time)

Thanks! Yeah, I use jc-grabs, but for some reason the maneuver of the waveshine followed by a dash throws me for a loop and I always end up doing a dash grab. I just wanted to make sure I was doing it right Now I just need to practice it and get the jc-grab everytime.

Edit: BTW, are you the same Zgetto from the MKDS boards?

 

[Zgetto]

enigmatigcam,

yeah thats me
i think i even i raced you once like a year ago

 

[EnigmaticCam]

enigmatigcam,

yeah thats me
i think i even i raced you once like a year ago

heh, we might have. I remember you dominating the MKDS rankings and finally removing Fried from his throne. Then you disappeared and quit MKDS. It seems like you did the same thing I did and returned to smash. I tell you, smash can not and will never be replaced

 

[Zgetto]

heh, we might have. I remember you dominating the MKDS rankings and finally removing Fried from his throne. Then you disappeared and quit MKDS. It seems like you did the same thing I did and returned to smash. I tell you, smash can not and will never be replaced

yeah i quited mkds for smash
and i agree, smash >>> mkds.
altough i started play a little wifi now and then for about a month now(after like 8 months not playing)

 

[takieddine]

Fox has some nasty **** combos against marth...

If your friend is not very familiar with DI you can try:

Chaining Shuffled nairs(mid percents)
Drillshine infinites(any percent)
nair to shine wd nair to shine(low percents)
you can utilt juggle marth for a few times.
dash attack is your best friend against a marth(especially one with bad rolling habbits and or bad teching habbits)
Jab into grabs uair ****.
jab usmash
nair usmash...

try ftilt or dtilt with fox if you're feeling outranged.

learn to do the firefox infinite stall...(really useful)

too many options.