Falco's jab

[knightpraetor]

as a non-falco main. i would like discussion...when do you use falco's jab and for what. I find personally that it is harder to decide when to jab and when to shine with char like fox/falco compared to others who don't have that 1 frame action;p

 

[Vro]

I can see why it's hard to distinguish between the shine and jab, since both are very quick attacks. However, their application is very different.

Jabbing can be used to 'reset' your opponent or to 'Thunder' (see Thunder's Combo) them upright from the ground. It also has more range than the shine.

The shine can be used for combos ofc. It's always good to mix up shines and jabs for quick responses as well..

 

[knightpraetor]

ok, i admit i thunder's combo quite a bit with jabs..but what about falco? is jab just used when you misspace too far from someone who has a large grab range like marth?

 

[lain]

Sometimes.

Jab is also used as a setup, or even a mindgame. If you can get them to DI wrong, or catch them off gaurd, it works well for whatever. If they DI away, then just laser or sometimes even Fsmash them (high percents). If it's a low percentage, you can jab them to either shine, jab again, or grab. This is all assumed that the jab hits.

If they shield it, I believe they have a small frame to attack you or grab you between the 1, 2 Jab. But I'm not exactly sure. If they spot dodge the first jab, they will more then likely get hit by the second.

I personally always go for the jab to shine since it's the fastest and gives them little (or none? i'm not sure. fram data... pfft.) time to do anything if they're shielding.

Also, you can jab to run away if they're shielding .

 

[Vro]

If Marth is at max grab distance, I don't think you can actually jab him. But yes, misspacing usually warrants a quick attack, i.e. jab.

I didn't mean Thunder's Combo per se, I meant that you can get your opponent off the ground with a jab, just as you would in Thunder's Combo.

Also, you can use jab in part of shield pressuring.

 

[captainlukey]

jab is the only thing that rivals the shine and the short hop jism (laser),
i use jab mainly to mix up my combos....
for example, lets say ive been dairing to shine over and over the opponant catches on and puts his shield up, then for the next combo it mite be something like cc jab, grab, drthrow shine...
its fast, and i always tap a when im under pressure and the opponant is hurtling towards me, and it ussually hits, giving me another free hit if im quick enuff....
the jab is a good move to link just about anything in falcos aresenal... also can be used to throw the other player off (we all know what playing level 9 comps are like with the jabs lol).
but another example of how it can be used to gimp another player would be to go into melee with a friend and both pick falco, have one just dair shine, and have the other guy jab to stop him, and when he jumps to dair shine again jab again, if you can get the timing you can stop long combos at the very start with a jab and then even create your own out of it...

oh and lain, if he spot dodges the first, chances are hell still have invincibility by the second, unless you time slower
and they do have a few frames (especially if your timing is off with the follow up) to grab, but thats why you do it when he thinks your gonna do something else... like if you pillar someones shield everytime and they know you do, you can use jabs to throw them out, maybe even make them make a mistake.....

 

[lain]

Usually you would think to time it slower if they spot dodged. It's not all muscle memory here

Let's not get too specific here though on advice and situations.

 

[Junpappy]

Jab a space animal out of a phantasm/illusion and then edgeguard. Wavedash > Jab ala forward to ruin dash dancers. There are many many more uses but its best to learn them through experience.

 

[lain]

I do the jab out of people's illusions sometimes nowadays. Other times it's pretty cute to charge Usmash at the edge and let them illusion into it, because Usmash seems to hit a little below the ledge for some reason, sweeping them up

The Wavedash -> Jab is pretty nice. ; )

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sometimes.

Jab is also used as a setup, or even a mindgame. If you can get them to DI wrong, or catch them off gaurd, it works well for whatever. If they DI away, then just laser or sometimes even Fsmash them (high percents). If it's a low percentage, you can jab them to either shine, jab again, or grab. This is all assumed that the jab hits.

If they shield it, I believe they have a small frame to attack you or grab you between the 1, 2 Jab. But I'm not exactly sure. If they spot dodge the first jab, they will more then likely get hit by the second.

I personally always go for the jab to shine since it's the fastest and gives them little (or none? i'm not sure. fram data... pfft.) time to do anything if they're shielding.

Also, you can jab to run away if they're shielding .

where to start... dont jab to shine. jab hits frame 2-3 but you cant escape the lag for another 14 frames (iasa frame 16, ends frame 17). now if you hit with the jab, chances are you did it because your shine was outranged. in those 14 frames the person will have either attacked you back already or gotten out of range all together.

if they spotdodge just start the rapid a combo

if you jab a shield as long as you make the 2nd jab come out as soon as possible they have no chance to grab you. even if you dont its not likely someone will, as its a common mind game to jab once and do a late timing of the 2nd (and 3rd for falcon).

again with the jab to shine. on a shield, youre just asking to be grabbed. as i said before 14 frames from first hit to cancel frame. thats twice the time needed for a grab (most grabs are frame 7, only different ones are samus link YL yoshi afaik)

jab is the only thing that rivals the shine and the short hop jism (laser),
i use jab mainly to mix up my combos....
for example, lets say ive been dairing to shine over and over the opponant catches on and puts his shield up, then for the next combo it mite be something like cc jab, grab, drthrow shine...
its fast, and i always tap a when im under pressure and the opponant is hurtling towards me, and it ussually hits, giving me another free hit if im quick enuff....
the jab is a good move to link just about anything in falcos aresenal... also can be used to throw the other player off (we all know what playing level 9 comps are like with the jabs lol).
but another example of how it can be used to gimp another player would be to go into melee with a friend and both pick falco, have one just dair shine, and have the other guy jab to stop him, and when he jumps to dair shine again jab again, if you can get the timing you can stop long combos at the very start with a jab and then even create your own out of it...

oh and lain, if he spot dodges the first, chances are hell still have invincibility by the second, unless you time slower
and they do have a few frames (especially if your timing is off with the follow up) to grab, but thats why you do it when he thinks your gonna do something else... like if you pillar someones shield everytime and they know you do, you can use jabs to throw them out, maybe even make them make a mistake.....

why would you trade shield pressure and good combos for a dthrow? not even wondering what you are ccing for that jab, how you expect that grab, and why you would shine after the dthrow. even if they just DI and dont tech, they still get out of range for the shine.

and lvl9 computers suck for a reason. their jabbing is easily baitable and those 14 frames are a great time to start up any combo. its easy enough to WD back/DD in front of someone who likes to jab a lot. youre much better off running away and lasering than jabbing.

and mixing it up on the shield with jabs... the hole in the shine dair on a shield is the gap between the shine and when the dair comes out, and after the dair hits the shield and before he hits the ground. thats why fox's is so much better, because his multi hits. if falco does a dair just after the jump, he has a ton of time to get grabbed. if he doesnt he can get grabbed long before the dair. now if you jab instead of shine, you are going to get what? 3% and no real combo while at the same time leaving yourself very open whenever you decide to stop jabbing?

 

[Miharu]

Jab resets are rather useful, and usually lead into fsmash/dsmash/grabs/shine, etc.

It's really based on experience, since it's usages are mostly intuitive (for me that is).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i agree. at higher % (~100%+) the jab will actually pop them in the air long enough for you to fsmash them.

 

[knightpraetor]

ok, ya jabs are nice on jiggs to setup for kill.. and what sveet said made a lot more sense

i was starting to think i was crazy or something...still i assume they can just wait for two jabs and then grab..but that's why mix up one jab to grab instead...

tehnically you can do more than 2 jabs without starting rapid a, but only i think if you use the interrupt frame to crouch cancel to another jab..but i've never been sure whether fox/falco could use that to continuously jab without getting shieldgrabbed..most likely a quick shieldgrabber will get you after 2 regardless if they were waiting for it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yup, thats how it goes. on frame 19 of the 2nd jab you crouch and then release and jab.

 

[0RLY]

All of you have made great points, now how about double jabs? CPUs tend to pull that off very well by chaining double jabs. Since we're obviously smarter than that, how about double jab to grab to combo? Personally, I love double jabbing and I never perform a single jab unless it's a char like samus.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

did you read my posts? jabs dont truly combo. you can mess up someone who is DDing or not really expecting it with a jab and then grab, but double jab doesnt work except on shields.