Falcons Throw

[MattNF]

I use upb vs falcon's recovery

works almost every time

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

dair or upb will work fine

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Dair and up-B are much better than grab, but I use grab for fun against the people I play against... mainly because I can get away with it lol.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dks up B is so godly it defies godliness. it also ***** yoshi

 

[Zen Yore]

dont blame the throw, blame the ftilt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-AONy-5U_8

 

[SheerMadness]

DK's up b only ***** Yoshi if Yoshi is reckless as hell with his DJC's.

Baiting the up b then punishing is also pritty easy vs most DKs.

 

[SilentSlayers]

As a Yoshi main myself, i'd agree. It doesn't really affect Yoshi at all during his double jump. There's always a better option as a DK.

 

[Nybb]

Is DK's grab range more than Yoshi's? Because I seem to find Yoshi's grab range (for a tether grab) is pretty pathetic.

WUT

proof?

when I play as fox it seems like you can't grab them unless you're right on top of them

then again I dont use fox much

As far as i can tell pikachu's grab seems to be the longest range other than DK for no-tethers. It's very long range, almost as long as pikachu himself.

Yah Pika's grab range is definitely longer than Fox's.

But fox is the easiest to grab with cause hes fast and lasers can guarantee grabs.

Grabbing is pretty freaking weird sometimes. Like when you grab people behind you, and sometimes anyone's grab looks like a magnet. But consistancy wise, I find DK (obviously) has the longest range grab, followed by Pika. This isn't backed up with data or anything, just what i've noticed while playing. Pika has some really gay magnet grabs.

I think DK Pika and Falcon are the best grabbers.

Here, I actually researched this a little while ago.

To summarize: DK's grab is just the tiniest bit shorter than Yoshi's. Fox has the next longest. Pika's is average, it just looks long because his body is so small. All non-tether grabs come out in the exact same amount of time.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

DK's up b only ***** Yoshi if Yoshi is reckless as hell with his DJC's.

Baiting the up b then punishing is also pritty easy vs most DKs.

agreed a good yoshi would adapt.

but, dks up b is really good on edgeguard vs yoshi using his double jump in the air.

 

[asianaussie]

Is it? Can't Yoshi just jump right through?

 

[Fireblaster]

Yoshi will just let the upB connect, then yoshi will just Nair or w/e right afterwards. Only way it'll work is if yoshi is stupid or at 150% or something.

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi's grab *****


it is so underused against good people that using it against an opponent expecting a typical djc barrage will get them 80% of the time

 

[SSBPete]

hahaha i'm the opposite. when tactical stuff isnt working i spam djcs as fast as i can. it acctually works sometimes.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Yoshi's grab *****


it is so underused against good people that using it against an opponent expecting a typical djc barrage will get them 80% of the time

When i do use grabs, its usually out of djc n-airs.

It's not that the grab is bad, its just way too slow.

 

[ciaza]

I mainly use Yoshis grab, and other tether grabs to ctach my opponent recovering and send them back out again, not advised against people who catch on and sweetspot pefectly, but then you can adapt to that too.

 

[dandan]

When i do use grabs, its usually out of djc n-airs.

It's not that the grab is bad, its just way too slow.

you can always parry grab like sheer

 

[Deleted member]

try using the grab on the right side of hyrule when you are blocked from view underneath the house

especially great in teams

 

[hamburglar]

try using the grab on the right side of hyrule when you are blocked from view underneath the house

especially great in teams

this tactic works for me pretty often.

parrying into a grab is sufficiently more difficult but definitely looks alot cooler.

 

[Daedatheus]

Okay I need to jump in here with the Fox's grab discussion.

I played against two completely different players tonight, one on server and one on p2p, and in both connections I was grabbing through my opponent consistently when I played as Fox. I seem to have this problem less or not at all on console but then again, there are really no good players that live around me.

So what is up with Fox's grab? It has such a weird tendency to miss. Perhaps it has good range but also has a large deadzone (like the spot in between DK's arms and body and not getting grabbed)... could one of the TAS guys verify any of this?

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Thinking about it, excluding Samus, Link, and Yoshi, I think every character's grab range (defined as from the farthest left to the farthest right of the grab hitbox) is the same. What is different is how far away/towards the character it is. Nybb's data could be how far away from the character the grab hitbox is... while the length of the grab hitbox itself is constant.

Just a suggestion.

 

[SSBPete]

Okay I need to jump in here with the Fox's grab discussion.

I played against two completely different players tonight, one on server and one on p2p, and in both connections I was grabbing through my opponent consistently when I played as Fox. I seem to have this problem less or not at all on console but then again, there are really no good players that live around me.

So what is up with Fox's grab? It has such a weird tendency to miss. Perhaps it has good range but also has a large deadzone (like the spot in between DK's arms and body and not getting grabbed)... could one of the TAS guys verify any of this?

i have the same problem sometimes. serious case of it yesterday. me and my bro were having a fox ditto and we were standing right next to each other face to face and spamming graple, we missed each other at least 3-4 times and we were standing in the exact same spot when my bro hits the graple. we both broke into laughter, it acctually looked really ridiculous.
p.s. on consol

 

[HiddenElf22]

Okay I need to jump in here with the Fox's grab discussion.

I played against two completely different players tonight, one on server and one on p2p, and in both connections I was grabbing through my opponent consistently when I played as Fox. I seem to have this problem less or not at all on console but then again, there are really no good players that live around me.

So what is up with Fox's grab? It has such a weird tendency to miss. Perhaps it has good range but also has a large deadzone (like the spot in between DK's arms and body and not getting grabbed)... could one of the TAS guys verify any of this?

I think this may be the root of the problem, and Falcon's much better grab gets me frustrated.

Someone should look into this

 

[Nybb]

Thinking about it, excluding Samus, Link, and Yoshi, I think every character's grab range (defined as from the farthest left to the farthest right of the grab hitbox) is the same. What is different is how far away/towards the character it is. Nybb's data could be how far away from the character the grab hitbox is... while the length of the grab hitbox itself is constant.

Just a suggestion.

This would make some sense in terms of game design, and it would seem to be consistent with what we know. DK and Fox having the longest normal grab ranges would imply that they also have the largest deadzones...it makes so much sense, lol

I might try to look into this this weekend if I get bored of studying

i have the same problem sometimes. serious case of it yesterday. me and my bro were having a fox ditto and we were standing right next to each other face to face and spamming graple, we missed each other at least 3-4 times and we were standing in the exact same spot when my bro hits the graple. we both broke into laughter, it acctually looked really ridiculous.
p.s. on consol

The grab animation changes your character's hurtbox. This is why two people can stand there spamming grabs, miss several times in a row, then suddenly one of them is successful. The timing of their grabs just happened to work out that one time so that the one person grabbed exactly when the other presons hurtbox was extended (i.e. just after their grab whiffed).

 

[SSBPete]

thanks and for some reason i think samus' grable is hacked. it hits in the wierdest positions sometimes.

 

[HiddenElf22]

LOL let me tell you what happened earlier tonight.

Dream land. He was Falcon, on the right edge facing inwards. I'm a bit to the left of him just inside fsmash range. I fmash him, and he ****ing grabs me when my foot was in his face. It was too much.

 

[asianaussie]

Falcon's foot is like 4 metres long and two metres wide.

 

[SSBPete]

Falcon's foot is like 4 metres long and two metres wide.

and on fire

 

[HiddenElf22]

Apparently his arms are longer

 

[ciaza]

Apparently his arms are longer

You know what they say about big arms...

 

[HiddenElf22]

you Know What They Say About Big Arms...

It Doesn't Take Skill To Play??!?!?!?

 

[ciaza]

It Doesn't Take Skill To Play??!?!?!?

Big gloves.

 

[blaze3927]

and i use to think pikachus grab was hax, he has like t-rex arms and yet he can grab throw kirbies tap a thing

 

[dch111]

Yeah I used to think jabs were designed to counter grabs but when it turned out they weren't really good at doing that my "rock-paper-scissors" picture of Smash was shattered. (RPS in that attack counters grab, grab counters shield, shield counters attack. In reality, a dashgrab mixed with dashdance grab could counter virtually anything. The only solution is really well-spaced SH aerials mixed with weaving and overshooting, but casual players aren't going to go out of their way to learn it, resulting in the popoular conception that grabs dominate the game.)

The official Japanese SSB site even suggests jabs are for countering grabs, but I guess they didn't anticipate how difficult it'd be to react that perfectly, and how effective dashgrabs would be.

 

[ciaza]

A grabbing player is tough to counter, but luckily even a crappy pikachu projectile is enough to force them to shield/short hop to approach them.

 

[Daedatheus]

The official Japanese SSB site even suggests jabs are for countering grabs, but I guess they didn't anticipate how difficult it'd be to react that perfectly, and how effective dashgrabs would be.

I use jabs to counter grabs all the time. Think of getting fair'd by Pika, DI-ing away, then jabbing to ensure you don't get grabbed. Subsequently, run away or attack.

A grabbing player is tough to counter, but luckily even a crappy pikachu projectile is enough to force them to shield/short hop to approach them.

Or, I could just jab your little projectile or ftilt it or shinecancel it or crouchcancel it into something else or bomb-jump(samus) over it or counter it with a higher-priority attack that goes through it or hit it with a projectile of my own.

There are always more options

 

[ciaza]

^Still alot of those have star-up lag, and if I time it right I can attack while you're doing all those things. tilts, and jabs can be out-prioritzed, and since I main pika nothing beats my uair. With the exception of shine cancelling a good timed projectile> to Sh uair can do wonders.

But I get you're point, and I know I'm probably wrong anyway, I think this post is a mistake since I'm trying to argue with you, but hey whatever =D.