Falcon's nair

[3chairz]

In a more closed quarters situation, like say in a doubles game where sheik and falcon are kinda pseudo-1v1ing on one part of the stage and can't really go elsewhere because two other players are ****** each other on the other side of the stage,

what do I do if the falcon just spams nair? i think it beats most of sheik's aerials in terms of range, but i may just not be approaching right. Or should i just face away and start bairing instead of trying to approach?

Oh, and does aerial into jab prevent shieldgrab?

 

[gm jack]

CC it and punish. Or wait for him to throw it out and dash attack under it.

And a jab will prevent a shield grab for the aerial, but they may wait through the jab(s) and grab afterwards.

 

[stelzig]

Yeah both dashattack, and i believe ftilt should beat it

Maybe just needle him. tbh it sounds like a situation where you still have plenty of options. afaik closed quarters is also just more beneficial for sheik, and not for falcon in this matchup.

 

[3chairz]

hmm ok, today i didnt play the falcon that was owning me, so i didn't get to try the dash attack/ftilt punish.

But I still have a more general question: is there any way for a sheik to attack a shield while guaranteeing to not get shield grabbed? cuz gm_jack said that if you jab, they can still grab after, so does that mean i can only avoid shield grabbing by mixing it up with aerial --> grab, and just try to predict the opponent's response?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[ChivalRuse]

You should be able to just shield grab it from time to time. CCing and ftilt are also good, but people already said that.

 

[gm jack]

Pretty much nobody can guarentee not to be sheild grabbed, unless it's a multishining fox or something ******** like that. Good spacing is your friend. Falcon does not have brilliant grab range at all.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I thought you could space autocancelled fairs on his shield and not worry

 

[3chairz]

Yeah, amsah vs armada at pound 4, amsah was just ****** armada's shield with repetitive ffalled fairs, thats y i thought it couldn't be shield grabbed. but i guess that's just good spacing?

 

[Pita]

I've had a lot of experience with Falcon matchups (we have a huge advantage, from what I've seen, even though I'm still a newb) but I would assume it wouldn't be too difficult to predict where the Falcon would land, and time a Fair accordingly. If you know they're spamming Nairs, then you can essentially tell that most jumps will include a Nair. Based on their momentum, spacing your Fair shouldn't be too difficult.

If the Fair spacing isn't to your liking, try the same tactic with Bairs, which has longer range, and should therefore be easier to hit with. You also mention trying to approach. Against Falcon, Sheik doesn't need to approach. You have an amazing projectile. Falcon doesn't have any. Use those needles!

Lastly, predicting Falcon's landing and getting in a grab (which you then start punishing with a long string of tech chases) is another great option, but isn't likely to be too effective in 2v2 situations due to teammates getting involved. If you can't tech chase, maybe your teammate can at least help you start a team combo though!

 

[Leviathan741]

umm just fair lol...it goes through everything, and really all you have to do is grab from 0 to about 30 something percent tech chase (easy as hell since falcon's rolls suck and are slow) and then you just dash attack to launch us in the air and then you ftilt multiple times and then a couple of dtitls, fair and then edgeguard his ****ty *** recovery.

 

[G.L.]

fair or nair should beat it, or dash attack under it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair stuffs it. It doesn't win if they're both out or if Falcon is spaced.

 

[j3ly]

you can shield the nair and nair oos, di away if you don't hit him - shiek can effortlessly outspace alot of the cast this way.

or you could anticipate the nair using the same method, 4 frames(i tihnk) is really really really fast. shieks jump comes out on what, frame... 5/6? so we are talking a max of 10 frames to get this hitbox out.

ftilt will beat it unless he is spacing with falcons tiny disjoints.

you could CC it and dsmash

alot of falcons like to jab ur shield instantly too. you can CC this jab if its predictable and grab.

throw needles

spacing fair -> tilt/jab -> nair/dsmash against a shield really isnt hard atall. interchanging those basic techniques with appropriate mindgames can be though, but the way i see it, if you are in the air and not doing anything, you are more ready to fair

bair is nice, but you cant just jump and wait the same way as with fair bc the window to AutoC it is much smaller than with fair. you can just jump and wait with it, but if you get baited you might miss the AutoC and have more punishable lag than if you had used the same strategy with fair

 

[KirbyKaze]

3 for nair

3 for jump startup (airborne frame 4, which is when nair would start)

sh nair perfect comes out frame 6

cc d-smash sucks grab is better unless they're ledgehop nairing you and you can d-smash them offstage or something else that would demand a lot of stupidity or desperation on the falcon's behalf

i also tend to think he can just outspace the d-smash. it doesn't have as much range as we'd like to think it does.

throwing needles sucks vs nair usually because he covers the entire level if he dash shs

autocancel isn't most important it just makes high aerials better. late aerials are still good for their own reasons. sh rising bair ff leaves sheik SO OPEN during the descent even with the fast fall autocancel because she spends the bulk of the descent without a hitbox to protect her. and the hitbox for the bair going up is really high, which isn't useful for defending vs lower places moves.

where your hitbox is placed reduces more vulnerabilities than the 3 or 4 frames of lag you save.

 

[Brookman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz4_stbqJ3g

 

[KirbyKaze]

I played horrible don't post that.

 

[soap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz4_stbqJ3g

I love the dropzone knee on the last stock, then you make it back and **** him

I wanna see that in a SS combo video

 

[KirbyKaze]

ss is a beastmachine

 

[Konata Star]

You could attempt to ftilt them out of it and lead into a fair. I think that would work, not exactly sure though.