Falcon's guaranteed/semi-guaranteed throw followups

[bertbusdriver]

Non-techchase stuff. In the interest of keeping information accurate and easily accessible rather than having ppl asking the same questions over and over again. Some of this information is in the index thread, but i figure this way all of the "guaranteed stuff" can be aggregated.

ppl who know, please contribute w/ percents and DI-dependency. I'll update the thread as much as necessary

DISCLAIMER: a lot of non-guaranteed stuff works in melee. If you start doing the semi-guaranteed stuff everytime you have a grab at certain percent, eventually your opponent will figure out the DI to get out of it if there is one. don't let this guide stunt your creativity/swag. No one wants to see a boring falcon.

Sheik

uthrow -> knee

true combo at 73% with no di (or di behind)
with di away its about 88%, but you can do it earlier if they jump (which alot of people do)

Fox
uthrow-> knee
NOT SURE. around 120-130ish

uthrow-> fsmash
starts working around 80ish. Misses if they DI hard away.

If they're at too low of a percent to f-smash they're also too low to d-smash. I already said they're the same speed. F-smash actually starts hitting a frame before d-smash but doesn't hit far enough in front to match d-smash's range until the 2nd hit frame making them equal, except if they slightly DI in f-smash could hit when it first comes out and work earlier than d-smash.

If you do an up angled f-smash it's even stronger and will kill outright or send too far to recover when it starts working around 80 unless you're hitting them back across the middle of a wide stage.

Captain Falcon

uthrow -> uthrow
starts working 75ish? Not too sure. I think it stops working around 100 or so. someone who knows, plz clarify.

uthrow -> knee
120ish. can work as early as 90s if they don't DI.



Falco



Jigglypuff

dthrow->knee

Also, having a semi-reliable dthrow -> knee @ the 60-80% range is cool, I think the good falcons just need to get better at reacting to the difference between Jiggs DIing in and away on that, I saw Scar missing it a lot.

Marth

uthrow-> knee
not positive

uthrow-> uair
around 30ish. not positive

dthrow-> knee
not positive, around 120ish?


Peach

uthrow-> knee

uthrow to knee on peach works at like 40%. seriously. most peaches/zeldas don't see that coming the first time.

dthrow-> knee

Also upthrow->knee works about 40%ish like we talked about, and dthrow->knee works about 90%+

Low percent stuff


Ganon

uthrow -> knee

Uthrow->knee at [again] 80%

uthrow-> uair
lots of percents. not sure



Doc


Samus

Very little apparently:

Speaking of Falcon/Samus, I had to play IHSB at Pound and I was talking to him about it.
This is what he said:

"When you get a grab on Samus, you get something that most Falcon players aren't used to: the fact that Samus can't stay in shield in that situation. You can't really combo off of it, but it's more of a mental tool."

Just putting that out there.

Pikachu

dthrow->knee

haha yeah.... it only seems guaranteed if you Downthrow pika while on a platform or on the side of the stage, when he can't tech

i'm not too sure about Uthrow Uair though, but even if the Uair connects, i don't think he can get another hit after that

Ice Climbers

dthrow->knee

Ironically that's about all you need to know.
After it's SoPo, you can dthrow->knee around 60-80 if they don't DI away.
It really is that easy.

 

[bertbusdriver]

Reserved just in case. Not sure if i'm gonna keep the characters collapsable

 

[Gahtzu]

nice post(s)

i think dthrow->nair works on doc w/ bad DI and uthrow->uair works too (usually works on practically everybody) could be wrong tho

 

[SamusPoop]

Only thing I dislike is the hidden messages you could easily color code it and make it is easy to find. I just wanted to look around. Keep it up

 

[bertbusdriver]

gahtzu, we need percent ranges where those things are guaranteed/semi-guaranteed.

poop, i'll change it soon. wasn't sure if it would eventually get too cluttered, but i think it'll be ok since i have the reserved 2nd post, and these are rather brief. I also don't expect a lot of the low tiers to be listed since for a few of them it'll probably look like: G&W - dthrow->knee: ALMOST EVERY PERCENT EVERY DI TROLOLOL

 

[SamusPoop]

Really I could believe it does combo at basically any percent till he goes too high too be kneed with a full hop. He has so much stun from throws and jank throw effects so maybe.

 

[bertbusdriver]

updated formatting. Added characters and info. Tried to use quotes from reliable sources.

 

[Deleted member]

best throw on samus is up-throw --> up-air a lot, but its more of a semi-guarantee than anything

worst case in a lot of spots is a trade although sometimes even if Samus n-airs you can up-throw and hit samus's tippy toe without trading

d-throw usually sucks really bad unless they hard DI up and in for a free knee

d-throw could be ok if it causes them to land on a platform but kinda requires them to DI slightly bad

any floaty: up-throw --> up-air (not ultra floaties)

just my opinions, and i def don't know percents or pay much attention to them

 

[General Heinz]

Against a lot of floaties (especially Peach I feel like), dthrow-->knee starts at low-high percents, but at mid-percents it's pretty easy to pull off dthrow (or stomp)-->--uair-->knee. Seems like 40%-50% to me (mostly like Peach, Doc, and maybe Luigi).

 

[JonnyW]

This thread has so much potential. Falcons got so many follow ups.

 

[0Room]

I like how I'm 90% of these quotes

Also Fox uthrow->knee is at 100% and Falco is 110%

Zelda doesn't have one
Luigi doesn't have one but most Luigis are bad and don't anticombo di
Mario doesn't
Doc doesn't, best you have is uthrow->uair, uthrow->knee works at 40% if they don't do anything

Peach is the same way, 40% uthrow, 70-120/150% dthrow->knee guaranteed, have to follow DI like you have up there
Bower's at any percent, uthrow->knee is more fun though lol
Marth is at 70-94% uthrow->knee [tested it lol] and after that dthrow knee works only if they don't anti combo
Good to know that sheik, Marth, and any other semi floaty [mario doc luigi pika etc] can get out of any dthrow->knee with anti combo di
Roy is sheik's percents

Also good to know that after like 40% or so you can regrab spacies with no DI [it's how you dropzone bro]
uhhhh
Who else is important in this meta
I think that's it, or at least what my rusted brain can remember.

Don't forget other follow ups, like uthrow->nair after 13% on sheik and marth
This is good to look at too

This is important about Marth and sheik, it's kinda hard to understand but just look at the very last sentence there

Hope that helped at all

 

[bertbusdriver]

good **** 0room. I'll add the info under the respective characters in a little bit.

 

[Citizen Snips]

WAIT! BUS DRIVER BERT! Zenith pools! TecZero and Matt Dot Zeb ***** us! Wooo!

This thread is bookmarked for me. Really useful stuff. That uthrow->knee on Marth should shut up all the Marth players who keeps saying that it's even because of early uthrow->knee

Also, I think uthrow->Dsmash on spacies is inescapable at high percents, although it might be a DI thing.

 

[bertbusdriver]

i actually took MDZ down to last stock last hit with a jank brinstar CP so i'd like to say i wasn't *****. i'm glad you decided to stay with melee and falcon (you had just started at the time IIRC)

dthrow->dsmash almost definitely isn't inescapable. they can always DI away far enough or jump out early enough to not get hit except for maybe a tiny range of percent. However, you should have enough time to visually identify that they have missed the DI and initiate the dsmash. If you read the magus quote in the fox section, you'll see that you're actually better off using the fsmash.