Falcon v Marth

[ryankam10]

I feel this is SUCH a tough matchup for me. I know marth is combo food and I can usually capitalize on a nair, grab or hit to get at least like 60 70 percent or even a kill but I find marth just SO difficult to approach, and once they get a grab on me near the edge of the stage I'm usually dead. Anyone have any general tips for this matchup :S

EDIT: And I feel like i get ***** close-in because of marth's fast side-b or they just keep spamming grounded neutral A and I can't really do anything against that ...

 

[CloneHat]

Dashdance!

Run away from dangerous situations (Marth near the edge, Marth under a platform). The attacks that can beat your nair are all punishable, so go for baits. You're right about getting closed in, as Falcon can't do anything out of his shield if Marth spaces.

Keep him away until he messes up, then uthrow knee :D

 

[hubble]

Do not feel like you have to rush this match up. Take your time, and punish marth for every mistake.

You do not have to approach, but make sure you are very comfortable out of your shield. Wavedash out of shield really shines in this matchup because it lets you punish hard.

 

[Mokumo]

Do not feel like you have to rush this match up. Take your time, and punish marth for every mistake.

You do not have to approach, but make sure you are very comfortable out of your shield. Wavedash out of shield really shines in this matchup because it lets you punish hard.

yeah this.

dont stress yourself out about getting the grab or something. its more important to just not get hit.

i think dreamland/FD are solid counterpicks, and i pretty much always ban FoD, and yoshi's should be your second ban if you have the chance. i like KJ64 too.

and yeah the fast side B can be super gay because they can hit you when you're behind them right away and it can combo into utilt/anything. its relatively short range though so if you space your **** and don't commit to something where he can obviously punish you with a side B he wont get you. der. if he commits to a side B though its really easy to punish from behind

ciao

 

[Wenbobular]

Nair OoS against rising aerials
Side-b when you predict they're going to Nair
After 3X% Upthrow -> cheap stuff
Before 3X% Dthrow -> cheap stuff
When below Marth use a lot of Uair -> cheap stuff
Cheap stuff -> Knee
Knee -> knee
Sweetspot jump when they Dthrow you off
DI away to jump out of Uthrow stuff
Don't DI in on anything except Fsmashes
Don't attack stupidly into his dashdance
Lightshield edgehog -> Stomp knee or reverse knee
Upthrow -> Uair Uair is like the cheapest combo by the ledge
Mix in Dthrows if they're DIing in on Uthrow
Don't Nair into a crouch
I can't think of anything else

 

[Mokumo]

^^ what is 3X% ???

stomp crouches against pretty much everyone i think

double jump -> fast fall stomp owns marth's dash attack

LIGHT SHIELD EDGEHOD IS SO **** AGAINST MARTH especially as falcon because you can easily get a reverse knee or at low % you can do a ledge hop stomp -> knee

combos against marth are like clockwork once you stop thinking about it, that's why a lot of people argue the matchup is in falcon's favor

 

[Wenbobular]

3X% is somewhere in the 30s
Where X is an integer
Except 0 because it doesn't work at 30
Something about Upair not having enough stun or something

 

[Kanelol]

you'll feel like a ***** most of the time doing this to him

but d-throw/u-throw both auto-combo into knee at various percents (like any percent under 100)

/realtalk

 

[Metal Reeper]

If Marth is %70-90 Uthrow>Knee and its a stock.

 

[Windrose]

Everyone gives different numbers for the up throw to knee percent range...can we get the actual guaranteed range for up throw into knee and down their into knee?

 

[Mokumo]

g-reg says 68% for up throw.

down throw is roughly 95% lol

 

[J_Noodles]

what about u-throw to u-air? Does anyone know the guaranteed percentages for this to work?

 

[Metal Reeper]

what about u-throw to u-air? Does anyone know the guaranteed percentages for this to work?

At around I think like.....40%ish you can Dthrow>Uair>Knee. Stuff like that.

I have gotten the Uthrow>Knee at about 90 before. Maybe just bad DI? It works though.

 

[Mokumo]

uthrow to uair is SUPPOSED to work starting at ~35%, but thats pretty textbook and i usually get faired out if i do it that early.

marth's best option is to DI behind you, because in that case if you want to do a uair you'll have to turn around and shffl as fast as you can. I'm usually not fast enough. you're still in a pretty advantageous position though. I would say marth's worst DI option is away, because it's incredibly easy to move forward and hit him with a uair, traditionally after you connect with the uair you alternate into a nair, but don't rush it. you don't want to do a running jump - it takes time & practice to space this correctly.

uair combos for a while and eventually uthrow/sideb/stomp -> uair -> knee works like a charm if they survival DI the uair.

I posted in scar's thread about what to do if they DI away the uair but that thread is pretty much a spam thread now =/

 

[Metal Reeper]

^ That thread is the worst thing on smashboards and need to be shut down, seriously.

 

[Leviathan741]

The thing about marth is you have to be careful, if you get thrown off the edge, then gg, otherwise combo him to hell...

 

[Dark Sonic]

I posted in scar's thread about what to do if they DI away the uair but that thread is pretty much a spam thread now =/

At low percents if the DI the uair away and down then you can't directly follow up on it.

But you still have plenty of time to run up to just outside of Marth's aerial range and just wait for him to throw something out to punish it.


At mid percents (like 40ish I'm not sure since I play Marth, not Falcon) you can combo into a late uair or a nair.


At mid-late percents (like 65ish) you can combo into late uair or a knee.


Most of this depends on where you hit with the initial uair though. If you hit with a late uair close to the ground then it's super easy to combo from no matter what.

If the uair was early into your shorthop then it kinda depends where Marth was when you hit him. If he was above shorthop height then it's again super easy to combo him. But if he was shorthop height or lower and DI'd away and your uair was early then you really can't do anything to him.


Hope that helped.

 

[Roneblaster]

^ That thread is the worst thing on smashboards and need to be shut down, seriously.

youre the worst thing on SWF and should be banned, seriously.

 

[Mokumo]

At low percents if the DI the uair away and down then you can't directly follow up on it.

But you still have plenty of time to run up to just outside of Marth's aerial range and just wait for him to throw something out to punish it.


At mid percents (like 40ish I'm not sure since I play Marth, not Falcon) you can combo into a late uair or a nair.


At mid-late percents (like 65ish) you can combo into late uair or a knee.


Most of this depends on where you hit with the initial uair though. If you hit with a late uair close to the ground then it's super easy to combo from no matter what.

If the uair was early into your shorthop then it kinda depends where Marth was when you hit him. If he was above shorthop height then it's again super easy to combo him. But if he was shorthop height or lower and DI'd away and your uair was early then you really can't do anything to him.


Hope that helped.

Thanks dude I'm gonna read that a few times and memorize it. That was a problem that I didn't have enough time to figure out the last tournament I went to - luckily I didn't play any marths in any tournament matches.

I can't really play any smash bros for a while because I'm studying abroad in Rome. oh well... =P

luckily I found the Roman smash scene and I heard overlord (i guess he's the final boss around here) plays marth. Hopefully we'll play a lot and I'll learn about a lot of the options falcon has throughout marth's percentages. I'll let people know I guess if it matters. Marth's that DI away on uairs can be pretty frustrating sometimes.

Thanks Dark Sonic that was a really helpful poast!

 

[Deleted member]

The thing about marth is you have to be careful, if you get thrown off the edge, then gg, otherwise combo him to hell...

in terms of dying

its 50/50 if marth is decent

and 85/15 if the marth is bad in your favor

basically u gotta learn to double jump sweetspot the edge( pretty much every matchup) and then the practical option for marth to hit you is to do a run off f-air gimp

 

[Mew2King]

falcon vs Marth

down throw below 30

at ~28%+, up throw uair regrab, or up throw uair to uair

at ~60-90 up throw knee

up throw uair at 30-60

and randomly down throw, if you feel like it. Don't need to though

basically after 30 you just up throw and then regrab if they DI away, or react with uairs if the regrabs won't work

 

[Mokumo]

word m2k you da man.

dthrow regrab works at low % if they don't DI away, and if marth DIs falcons usually just regrab BUT dthrow -> nair -> regrab works awesomely at low %. and for course like mew2king said don't bother with uthrow until 30%

there's an old video of darkrain uthrowing marth into nair at really low percent. i just found it actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXofa_6L5g

this is mad oldschool though and in my experience uthrow -> nair only works when the marth isn't expecting it at all. that marth had pretty mediocre DI, too. if the nair connects though, well, gg. darkrain proves that.

 

[Metal Reeper]

youre the worst thing on SWF and should be banned, seriously.

Go failzone a shy guy
The thread is unhelpful and Hax or SS should be running the Falcon boards, not Scar.

 

[Scar]

ya well they don't post so you're stuck with me

ps every legit question i see i answer pretty well afaik

you should check my PM outbox

s2j ***** too

 

[Leviathan741]

Go failzone a shy guy
The thread is unhelpful and Hax or SS should be running the Falcon boards, not Scar.

Who exactly are you?

 

[ryankam10]

thanks for all the tips, ill try that.
I think the thing I'll take away from this is Nair OoS against rising aerials, i remember i always had trouble with marth doing these fast rising fairs against my shield and id be scratching my head as to what to do

i dont really have trouble comboing marth, its more I have trouble i guess spacing/approaching without getting ***** close in by his side b and grab game o_o

 

[ryankam10]

Who exactly are you?

also **** i remember leviathan posting in swf somewhere close to a year ago saying he wanted to become the very best falcon ever... youve improved a fair bit since your first videos... I remember giving you tips haha :D