Falcon Patch! 1.0.4

[stancosmos]

Seems to me Falcon is one of the best characters to not see any nerfing. That's great news!

 

[BigLord]

Aerial Raptor Boost is still elusive as it was on release. Spikin' ain't easy.

After all this time I STILL don't know how the aerial RB spike works, exactly... does anyone have any data on that? :\

 

[jay-tee]

Im not quite sure but I think is in the lower part of the hitbox. If you are above the other character it has much more chance to spike.

 

[Weeman]

After all this time I STILL don't know how the aerial RB spike works, exactly... does anyone have any data on that? :\

I've managed to do it only on the very end frames, when the move is about to end.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Im not quite sure but I think is in the lower part of the hitbox. If you are above the other character it has much more chance to spike.

Yeah it's pretty much this. Basically you have to hit them only with where your fist ends up at the end of the swing. It's sorta like you have to tipper the end of the punch.

 

[victra♥]

i'm not too sure if falcon has changed with this new patch but i was able to connect dthrow knee on marth as a true combo at 28%

 

[BigLord]

Yeah it's pretty much this. Basically you have to hit them only with where your fist ends up at the end of the swing. It's sorta like you have to tipper the end of the punch.

Thank you both, this makes a ton of sense! Going to practice practice practice it loads to see if I can consistently pull if off.

i'm not too sure if falcon has changed with this new patch but i was able to connect dthrow knee on marth as a true combo at 28%

Holy crap, does it kill Marth off FD's ledge?

 

[jay-tee]

i'm not too sure if falcon has changed with this new patch but i was able to connect dthrow knee on marth as a true combo at 28%

I'm pretty sure that was before the patch. But I think It was with more percentage damage.

Thank you both, this makes a ton of sense! Going to practice practice practice it loads to see if I can consistently pull if off.

Holy crap, does it kill Marth off FD's ledge?

Yeah, actually; once I played a small tourney and I killed some Marth twice with the d-throw to knee combo at around 60 near the ledge. You can kill several characters this way , but the DI read is really hard tho. For me is more of a guess or a trial and error, but really worth it since is a lot of reward with no punish at all since the sour spotted knee hits anyway and even then sometimes you can follow up that with an uair.

 

[victra♥]

I thought im the previous patch the threshold for dthrow knee as a true combo was at 65% minimum.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Welp Vectoring is gone and old DI is back. This is probably why combos are different.

Actually on second thought this shouldn't affect combos as much as it does for killing.

Well anyways what this really means is Side B should kill at more consistent percents.

 

[BigLord]

Vectoring is gone? What? Is there a way to test that?

 

[SonicZeroX]

People are testing it now in the competitive boards.

Also from what I've tried, this unfortunately seems to be a nerf to Falcon's dthrow. Before dthrow uair/nair was guaranteed at low percents, but now you can DI away from it.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think you can still read the DI and chase them with Upairs (No combo but w/e). Pretty sure it'll still work on fatties though.

 

[BigLord]

Hmm, that's the thing. Before, it was guaranteed, but now you have to read and be patient.

Also, is it just me or are knees harder to land, now? :\

 

[TTTTTsd]

Knees are about the same. It might just be you. Don't worry, Falcon's still really good, his D-Throw just isn't guaranteed no more : (

 

[SonicZeroX]

He does seem to kill more consistently though. I killed someone with backthrow at like 120% lol

Also interestingly enough it seem to combo fine at mid percents. It's just at low percents that you can't get a guaranteed follow up if they DI away.

Uair -> Uair/Knee still works just fine


Actually you know what maybe it was always like this because it seems really character specific, and I was wrong on him not having moving utilt before lol

 

[TTTTTsd]

The reason D-Throw to Uair combos fine at mid percents is because they're generally bounced relatively higher so you can run under them a bit faster I think?

 

[SonicZeroX]

Yeah pretty much. It also happens to be the percent where uair will combo into DJ uair.

 

[Mr. Pants]

People are testing it now in the competitive boards.

Also from what I've tried, this unfortunately seems to be a nerf to Falcon's dthrow. Before dthrow uair/nair was guaranteed at low percents, but now you can DI away from it.

So how sure are we that this is real and not just overanalyzing new patch stuff?

 

[TTTTTsd]

The removal of vertical vectoring? It's been tested absolutely consistently.

D-Throw to Uair still works at low %s, it's just not cast-wide. But Vertical Vectoring at the very least has been indeed patched out.

 

[Mr. Pants]

The removal of vertical vectoring? It's been tested absolutely consistently.

D-Throw to Uair still works at low %s, it's just not cast-wide. But Vertical Vectoring at the very least has been indeed patched out.

So just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly: Our D throw to U air combo is gone but can be done depending on the opponents DI?

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm not sure honestly, we'll have to test. I have friends coming over on Friday for WiiU Game launch, I'll run a quick test then and help fellow Falcons out . If anyone else would like to, feel free!

 

[HeavyLobster]

D-throw to Uair works well at mid-high %s actually. I've been able to get D-throw -> DA at really low %s. Falcon's combo game actually seems a little better overall from what I can tell, though things have definitely been changed around a bit. Combos in general are better now, especially at higher %s, though DI might be a bit better for getting out of certain things at low %s.

 

[SonicZeroX]

A Falcon nerf has been found. The windbox on one of his moves has been reduced.

...Falcon had windboxes?


Seems to be his side B. I guess it has a windbox huh

 

[Gardex]

Maybe they meant wind-up? That would at least make sense, seeing as it also applied to Dark Pit and Pit

 

[SOber SOldier]

Well I haven't seen much of Captain Falcon being used but he seems a lot faster than he was in Brawl if I can remember correctly. I'm happy about that. I feel like capn is going to be strong character here. But does anyone you think he'll be top tier?
(if this has already been discussed don't crucify me. I'm a little on discussions.)

 

[abit_rusty]

Dat dair meteor hitbox tho. Wishful me wants the entire hitbox to register as a spike, not a weird upward angle when they hit the falcon lats.

 

[タオー]

Since my wireless has been down I still have version 1.0.2 and I just and confirmed that Captain Falcon has tilt walks on utilt, dtilt and ftilt.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Well I haven't seen much of Captain Falcon being used but he seems a lot faster than he was in Brawl if I can remember correctly. I'm happy about that. I feel like capn is going to be strong character here. But does anyone you think he'll be top tier?
(if this has already been discussed don't crucify me. I'm a little on discussions.)

I seriously doubt he'll be the best of the best. Top tiers in previous games are usually able to dominate the neutral game with superior options, and Falcon simply doesn't have that. He can hold his own in neutral, but doesn't excel there. He really shines when he gets the advantage, as his punish game is as good as anyone's, but at the highest levels of play the character archetypes that tend to see the most consistent results are the ones that can consistently force the opponent to play the game on their terms. He's still very good and I think he'll be tourney viable and mid-high tier, he just won't win as often as other characters.

 

[SOber SOldier]

I seriously doubt he'll be the best of the best. Top tiers in previous games are usually able to dominate the neutral game with superior options, and Falcon simply doesn't have that. He can hold his own in neutral, but doesn't excel there. He really shines when he gets the advantage, as his punish game is as good as anyone's, but at the highest levels of play the character archetypes that tend to see the most consistent results are the ones that can consistently force the opponent to play the game on their terms. He's still very good and I think he'll be tourney viable and mid-high tier, he just won't win as often as other characters.

Well this video is of the player Coffeeblack playing captain falcon in the EMG invitational. Some highlights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkgVmbbFTuU&list=UUauH9DNPMjLlBoFlLD4kevw

If he can defeat Zero suit Samus this efficiently with enough effort, then he surely can push the limit if the cards are played right

 

[Lionman]

Can someone test if utilt still hits if the opponent is grabbed to the ledge without Inv frames?

 

[BigLord]

Well this video is of the player Coffeeblack playing captain falcon in the EMG invitational. Some highlights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkgVmbbFTuU&list=UUauH9DNPMjLlBoFlLD4kevw

Haha, "OH MY GOODNESS" everywhere
Yeah, Falcon's tough no doubt, but some of the other characters completely shut him off. Mainly the ones with good projectiles and combos :\ (looking at you, diddy...)

 

[Warlock*G]

Haha, "OH MY GOODNESS" everywhere
Yeah, Falcon's tough no doubt, but some of the other characters completely shut him off. Mainly the ones with good projectiles and combos :\ (looking at you, diddy...)

Completely? Meaning, Falcon can't do anything at all against Sean Diddy Combs?

 

[abit_rusty]

Dat DHD man. Wrecked me last time I fought a competent one. But it might be a month already since then. Maybe I've improved and/or the matchup isn't as bad as I thought.

 

[victra♥]

The removal of vectoring and DI being very subtle, raptor boost is absolutely insane.

In a game where KOing is still very difficult, and the fact that Falcon's raptor boost kills at 100-110% minimum is ridiculous

This in addition to Falcon being able to tank lots of % and live forever, makes him a really strong character imo.

 

[タオー]

The removal of vectoring and DI being very subtle, raptor boost is absolutely insane.

In a game where KOing is still very difficult, and the fact that Falcon's raptor boost kills at 100-110% minimum is ridiculous

This in addition to Falcon being able to tank lots of % and live forever, makes him a really strong character imo.

Good point about the tanking, I think my average peak % is something ridiculous like 185%

 

[Gawain]

The removal of vertical vectoring? It's been tested absolutely consistently.

D-Throw to Uair still works at low %s, it's just not cast-wide. But Vertical Vectoring at the very least has been indeed patched out.

Okay I'm sorry but that is absolutely untrue. In fact, the removal of vertical vectOrs makes it easier to combo from dthrow that before. Dthrow into uair at mud/high percent still works on everyone.

 

[タオー]

Okay I'm sorry but that is absolutely untrue. In fact, the removal of vertical vectOrs makes it easier to combo from dthrow that before. Dthrow into uair at mud/high percent still works on everyone.

Just so we're clear, did they get rid of vectors altogether, or just the vertical ones?

 

[victra♥]

All vectoring is gone. There is DI but its less appreciable then it ever has been before.

In the context of Smash 4 these are all good changes.

1. More combos
2. Faster KOs

 

[タオー]

The options for comboing with Falcon are pretty great in Smash 4. One thing I'm having trouble adjusting to is definitely the serious lack of hitstun. However, I've found that Falcon can overwhelm an opponent with a flurry of hits if you utilize your moves properly to reset it the combo before they can escape.

The first hit of Nair is great for this because you don't give up your mobility, and if you time it right (hit them right before you interrupt the second kick) I'm pretty sure you can grab before they can roll out. They might be able to get a jab in, but in my experience most people don't, and just try to roll and get grabbed into another combo. Other good combo reset options include Falcon's jab, utilt, ftilt (and angled ftilts), and sometimes even the soft knee (but only if you high enough to avoid the landing lag).

I just can't wait until someone breaks the game and gets us some gifs off all the moves with their hitboxes, I hate having to guess where they are. Got spoiled by the 20XX Hack Pack haha.