Falco Vs Pit (BIG PROBLEM)

[indelibleforce]

Hey guys. I am having a problem against a Pit that I play with regularly. I can fight one for one in the middle of the stage, but I am having a major problem with the edge game. If the pit player camps the ledge, I cannot beat him. I have tried everything. If he just drops and jumps with an up-air, I can't hit him. If pit just camps the ledge with arrows and up-airs, you can't kill him. Sure you can hit him, and sure you can do damage, but Pit always seems to come out on top. Can you help me?

The best thing I have found so far is to jump off and back air. This is okay at higher percentage, but at lower percentages this seems to always be a loosing situation for Falco.

Also the relevance here is because of tournaments. In friendlies he isn't going to camp me up just to win, but if any pit player were against a Falco on Final Destination, he could just pop a couple of hits and go camp until time ran out. What can Falco do in this situation?

Thanks,
Indelible

 

[Tommy_G]

Nothing, do not go off of the ledge against pit. I know this matchup well and I'm warning you don't do it.

Across the stage, Pit wins the camp match because he can angle the arrows over the reflector.
Close range(about little more than reflector distance) Falco wins the camp match.

If Pit is camping on the ledge, do not go out and try to back kick or spike. Grab the ledge and fast fall rising spike off of it. The invincibility should last until you're almost back onto the stage, but it has to be very fast. Know how to space and do mix ups and you should win.

 

[xDarkElement]

lol you should just quit falco right now if your losing to a camper. its called using his reflector.
ever heard of cging? Pit should be very easy to beat. cg from 1/4 the stage to the end then dair, forcing him to use his recovery. then gimp it

 

[Tommy_G]

lol you should just quit falco right now if your losing to a camper. its called using his reflector.
ever heard of cging? Pit should be very easy to beat. cg from 1/4 the stage to the end then dair, forcing him to use his recovery. then gimp it

Play better Pits. They out camp you from across the stage. They can curve arrows around the reflector.

Do not go after a smart pit after the spike. You will end up getting gimped.

 

[indelibleforce]

lol you should just quit falco right now if your losing to a camper. its called using his reflector.
ever heard of cging? Pit should be very easy to beat. cg from 1/4 the stage to the end then dair, forcing him to use his recovery. then gimp it

Perhaps you should test it out. I am not the greatest Falco, but I would be willing to bet I am playing against a better Pit than most people have laid eyes on.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Perhaps you should test it out. I am not the greatest Falco, but I would be willing to bet I am playing against a better Pit than most people have laid eyes on.

I really doubt that. Just because your friend is better than you, does not mean he is better than the rest of us.

 

[xDarkElement]

Perhaps you should test it out. I am not the greatest Falco, but I would be willing to bet I am playing against a better Pit than most people have laid eyes on.

I could probally beat this pit. Agreed with ^^^^
even if he curves his arrows, it should be no problem.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

You can also SH -> Shine -> FULL DI backwards. This will throw off his arrows, and is almost impossible to curve an arrow around correctly. You can also approach (note: you need good spacing for this) with SH Shine. All of these put ranged pressure on Pit in ways that he has trouble combating. Instead of arrows, I'd be more worried about his F-smash and superior off the stage game.

 

[NJzFinest]

When I play camping Pits, I just make sure I have less % and more stocks (basically, I make sure I'm in the lead) and I stay on the other side of the stage lasering/reflecting until the timer runs out or until they realize they have to approach me.

 

[iDizZzY]

ok, these forums are meant to help people. dont flame people who come in for advice. how do you know he isnt playing a really good pit?

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

ok, these forums are meant to help people. dont flame people who come in for advice. how do you know he isnt playing a really good pit?

If you think he playing some really good totally unknown player, then by all means, feel free to believe what you want. I myself know that logic would dictate virtually all VERY good player are the ones participating in tournaments, or are at least known about to the community.

 

[old king coal]

^how can you judge a player based on nothing. why can't you just give helpfull advice instead of questioning his credibility? why would he post this for no good reason? what idizzy said.

anyway to answer your question, aren't stalling tactics banned in competitions? how about jumping past him and using your up-b to get back onto the stage. mix it up with phantasm's, bair and dair attempts to keep him guessing...?

 

[B-Mon]

If Pit isn't edgehogging then that pretty much says, "Hello, I'm Edge, come sweetspot me". But if his arrows just seem to keep hitting then attempt a slightly lower approach with a rising shine during your available jump.

 

[NJzFinest]

TheKneeOfJustice, just be an ******* like me and blame them on their join dates.

 

[clowsui]

Perhaps you should test it out. I am not the greatest Falco, but I would be willing to bet I am playing against a better Pit than most people have laid eyes on.

Translation: I suck Brawls so I think he's better than everyone else.
Translation 2: Nobody knows this kid but because he beats all of my friends and I he's hot sh*t.

Kid, the likelihood is that if your friend:
1. Does not have a Smashboards/AiB/BC account,
2. Does not place regularly at tournaments and
3. Plays friendlies with someone who clearly hasn't been actively participating in the competitive community (read: you)

He's not "better than most people have laid eyes on".

Back to the point.

As the great Ganondorf master Sliq once said,

"Campers are, pretty much all of the time [I imagine he said pretty much to include all those lame people like Overswarm and Mew2King], bad at doing everything that's not camping."

So, just try to lure him up. But more "complex" (read: obvious) solutions are the following six:

I don't see why you can't just go edgehog, for one. For two I don't see why you can't go for a footstool or a dair (using the A button to not auto-fastfall). For three I don't see why you can't go for a walkoff bair using the initial priority of the move. For four I don't see why you can't go for the risky yet unexpected alternative of going off the edge and fairing. For five I don't see why you can't just do like Njz does. For six I don't see why you can't just go and edgecamp as well - boring as it is, when both of you are on the edge and both refuse to get up it's called stalling, which is illegal in tournaments, so if you're doing these friendlies not only to have fun but to also practice then he'll have to get up.

Six solutions for you, and I did it without being mean. Amazing, right?

 

[DKKountry]

If you think your Pit-player is better than most of us, it seems pretty silly to me to ask for our advice buddy.

 

[pnoid]

this is definately an interesting problem. i think i'll keep this situation in mind when i face a pit

 

[ixdnL]

AHH! Kirby main! **** your triple lasers. *shakes fist* =P

Anyways, I don't think I've faced a formidable Pit yet. They hardly curve their arrows so reflector's good enough.

 

[Tommy_G]

I don't see why you can't just go edgehog, for one. For two I don't see why you can't go for a footstool or a dair (using the A button to not auto-fastfall). For three I don't see why you can't go for a walkoff bair using the initial priority of the move. For four I don't see why you can't go for the risky yet unexpected alternative of going off the edge and fairing. For five I don't see why you can't just do like Njz does. For six I don't see why you can't just go and edgecamp as well - boring as it is, when both of you are on the edge and both refuse to get up it's called stalling, which is illegal in tournaments, so if you're doing these friendlies not only to have fun but to also practice then he'll have to get up.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on 4 of those 6 points. Pit's up air out prioritizes a footstool, dair, and back air. You cannot camp a good Pit from completely across the stage. Good Pits can angle the arrows so even if reflected, they won't get hit by them. Better Pits can angle them completely around the reflector and hit you. If you edge camp a Pit, they will punish you. I recommend if they're ledge camping just to get them off of that ledge. Don't worry about killing him. I personally like just grabbing the ledge after I see him use 2 jumps. Make him get on the stage. Fair might work for damage, but it's risky.

 

[clowsui]

Really? I don't have the game so I can't test this stuff :<
If this Pit is really as good as he says then he should be playing more campy anyways. If he went to edgehog then he could easily abuse invincibility to dropoff->rising bair...if he learned hugging this wouldn't be that big of a problem because the invincibility could be used to do anything at that point (even though it's a paltry amount :/)

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

TheKneeOfJustice, just be an ******* like me and blame them on their join dates.

I wasn't lol. I was blaming him on the obvious stupidity of his statement.

 

[NJzFinest]

I know, but I was suggesting you should xD !!!!

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

I know, but I was suggesting you should xD !!!!

Haha. I'll keep that in mind then. Btw, lol at camping pit out for the match: too good.

 

[Pierce7d]

Alright, I second Falco, and my brother mains Pit (AND PLACES IN LOCAL TOURNAMENTS).

Usually don't use Falco to fight Pit, but I can shed some experience.

First off, I'm surprised to come to the FALCO boards, and see so many FALCO MAINS not realize this horrible dilemma. That Uair out-prioritize almost everything Falco does from above, and if done correctly, PREVENTS you from grabbing the edge. Well timed run off Bairs are a viable option . . . if not your only option, if the Pit doesn't screw up. ROFL if you think Pit can't snipe Falco, even if Falco has a deflector, then you're in for some pain if there's a good Pit at your tournament.

As Tommy G said, wait until the Pit uses two jumps, and go that edge. Then get hyper aggressive on him. Spike if you can. Be very, very cautious about falling off that edge, because that Uair is one of the campiest gimps EVER. Practice hugging.

Also, a well timed Fsmash may get him. The range on the hitbox is good. It will pressure him to move away from the ledge a bit, which will open the gap for you to grab it and punish. Remember, he can't grab from this position, so shielding the Uair/arrows, and follow up with Dsmash/Dtilt/Other punishment might work, or of course, if he moves too far, hug the edge. Just be careful because you DON'T want to get shieldstabbed.

Stay away from too many Lazers on this match up. Arrows are just better, and you don't have the time. You need real hits, not safe ones, and Pit has a better projectile and two deflectors anyway.

 

[old king coal]

lol i never read him post this: "Perhaps you should test it out. I am not the greatest Falco, but I would be willing to bet I am playing against a better Pit than most people have laid eyes on."