Falco vs Marth (who doesn't use advanced techniques)

[JeezImSoBored]

I consider myself pretty noob, but i know the basic advanced techniques (waveshine, SHFFL, SHL etc. )
Generally I play smash with friends who know little to no advanced techniques at all, and I often have not much trouble winning. However, whenever my friend uses marth, and doesn't know any advanced techniques other than dash dancing and JC grab, I often have a hardtime for this matchup.

I realized that most of the time, he either waits for my approach and forward smashes me, or runs towards me to grab. He only uses areals when I laser him enough, or when I am in the air. But even when he is in the air, I'm not sure what to do, as he outranges most of my attacks.

also, when he just runs towards me for a grab, it is really hard to avoid due to his riduculous grab. I tried jabbing, forwardsmashing, or even wavedashback, but they don't really work that well (ex. forwardsmash into his grab etc.) The only thing i pretty much can do is side-dodge. I just feel like I really don't have many options.

I guess my biggest problem with marth is marth's ability to punish. At low percent, if i make a mistake and got off stage, all he does is forward smash me all day, and he would be able to kill me pretty fast (occasionally i get a tech off and survives)

I also have a problem with the techchase game against marth. He just covers so many options well, if he stands next to me when i'm down, he can either smash or grab no matter where I go in a short time. If i row, I would assume i have to sidedodge fast, but it's not always the case that he grabs.

anyways, I'm just asking for how i can do better against a marth who pretty much just forward smash, grab, and aeral attack when i'm in the air, or when he is under laser pressure(I know there are a lot of weaknesses of this playstyle but I don't know what exactly, and how to capitalize on those mistakes.) When it comes down to marth matchups, I feel like it's mostly mind games and trying to punish each other's mistakes, but i feel like marth can do this so much better with his huge range.

Also, I am not too sure how to edgeguard him, it seems pretty tricky.

I know i have to fake him out and take advantage of his missed forwardsmashes, but i don't really know how. Please give me some advice.

(I also play captain falcon, and i also have trouble against marth, especially when i'm off stage, its generally = death agianst marth)

 

[Mogwai]

honestly, it just sounds like you're incredibly predictable. Your friend is working with in sufficient tools to play the game at the level you claim to play at, but he's rendering it irrelevant because he's able to anticipate what you're doing. Mix things up, bait his actions, shoot him to put him on the defensive and then pressure him.

 

[Metal Reeper]

At low level play Marth is a god tier. Only approach at him with lasers. Let him come to you. Laser>Grab will destroy him.

If you do go Falcon against him. Make a promise to yourself NOT to approach him unless he attacks first. Then run in and grab>anything you want.

 

[~Tac~]

In addition to the above, don't let him corner you or thinks that he did. Sounds to me like he'll get you near a side of the stage with aerial pressure, then force you to shield or fsmash your way in, then punish you with a grab/fsmash.

Inexperienced new Marth players like to throw out aerials because they know the range *****. When he starts making a wall of Fairs, back off with a couple lasers and punish his approach. Especially on places like DL or PS.

 

[Mokumo]

be like mango and run up to him and shield, then dair him oos or something.

it's probably been said already but if you can fake him out and get him to fsmash you can usually get a hit in during his lag

 

[JeezImSoBored]

thanks, when i play with my friends, i only have trouble against marth
they don't even use much areals
the pretty much usually just use farwardsmash, grab, or dash attack
if they just camp i really dont know what to do
i can fake them out but im usually not fast enough to get in before the lag of farward smash ends
i guess that's my biggest problem =P
and marth really punishes hard imo, and new players like me who try to do advanced stuff often ****s up and get punished
im doing a little better now
thanks for the help

 

[Zante]

Marth has a sword. Falco has a gun. Take advantage of that

Also, in the long run it's better to try and use your advanced techs, even if you fail at them at first. Using them in a match is the best way to learn to integrate them into normal play.

 

[t3h Icy]

Play Dr.PP vs M2K at 0.2x speed and mimic that.

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Use lasers to take out his ground game, then come in with a nair to shine/grab/f-smash/d-air/whatever. If you're getting punished, just wait for him to come grab or f-smash you, then side step when you know he's going to do it.

 

[EpixAura]

As I'm not the most experienced at this, but am in the same position, I think I can help.
If you can't L-cancel, learn to. Full shine combos may be too advanced for you, but you pretty much NEED L-canceling to beat Marths. At least just for Nair. If you only practice Nair, it shouldn't take too much practice to learn the timing.

Laser spam him like crazy, and when he begins to approach... run away. Try to get out of his Fsmash range while still keeping him in range of a dashing SH Nair. Then proceed with lasers. If he has a half a mind, he should either shield or jump away.
If he shields, use an L-canceled Nair. You should land in front or behind him, with his shield still stunned from the Nair. GRAB him before he can attack. Dthrow. Since he's mid level, he probably won't tech. He'll be on the ground, and you'll thus have the upper hand. You can follow this up with various things, depending on where he ends up relative to you.

If he jumps away from the the lasers, go back to full laser spamming. Rinse and repeat.

If you are controlling the match, you can go around attacking all over the place. If not, laser spam to the above things mentioned to get this control.