Falco, how to defeat that bird?

[Linkark07]

Hey there. This is my first time posting a Thread. Anyways Im asking how to defeat Falco. You see my bro and a friend of mine we play always Brawl and usually they choose that bird named Falco. The bird is such a pain with his attacks that is pretty hard for me to defeat it. I have used my best characters (Pikachu, Toon Link and Zero Suit Samus) and they always win. Can someone tell me some way for defeat him with Zero suit Samus?

 

[sasook]

Hey there, I see you're new here. I just wanted to let you know, please ask this in the Q&A sticky we have. Your question will be answered there.

It'll probably be answered in this thread too because ZSS players don't care for rules THAT much, lol.

 

[fkacyan]

Pick another character.

 

[Zero]

Pick another character.

This. Your chances against Falco with ZSS are lower than Ice Climbers with Ganondorf.

Well, not that bad, but it's still pretty bad.

It'll probably be answered in this thread too because ZSS players don't care for rules THAT much, lol.

The quicker the question is answered, the more we can use our Q&A for general discussion :D

 

[sasook]

The quicker the question is answered, the more we can use our Q&A for general discussion :D

Hence does not approve.

 

[Zero]

Where is Hence anyway, I want to see progress in the defensive metagame and the matchup options projects :D

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Falco is somewhere between a hard counter and a soft counter. It's a bad match-up. It's actually bad enough that you'll see some ZSS players have picked their secondary solely to deal with Falco, heh.

With that said, I wouldn't describe it as being unwinnable like ICs vs Ganon is. You will have to capitalize on said Falco's mistakes and punish landing lag and rolls a lot to win. For instance if they recover with phantasm you can pretty much always punish that unless they aim for the ledge (they should, if they don't it's a mistake lol).

There are a few silly tricks. There's a bad chaingrab that runs from 0-40%. The first throw is standing, the rest are buffered dash grabs. It isn't very useful though because the chances of getting it off are pretty slim. Dash attack locking is pretty good vs Falco, too, because once he's over the edge (and below it) he's pretty easy to edge guard. Also, if you grab Falco and ground release him near the edge, he falls like a brick off the side and the only way he can survive is if he uses up+b. It's not guaranteed but it's a lame way to get a stock off.

None of these are guaranteed and they're all gimmicks that are easily avoided. If you really want to win vs Falco, you pretty much have to CP him unless you want to take a big chance. Don't play him on Japes or Final Destination if you can help it.

 

[noradseven]

ban FD and pray random doesn't give you smashville if it gives you smashville just run off the edge and kill urself its p. hopeless.

If you get BF/Yoshi's its close to even, so yeah, and CP no-fair, cruise, brinstar, cheesy level with lots of platforms.

And just play the match alot no amount of words can descripe how to get past laser phantasm and his other bull****, just play it alot.

Also Falco/ZSS should win there CPs, sometimes you can win japes if the falco doesn't know japes really well, because everyone bans it lol.

 

[Chibilicious]

even ZSS isnt my main, i use her quie a bit so lemme just say that if he tries Lazer Hold thiny just crawl over. and dont forget about ZSS's good range. b-down or dodge, then use the laser whip to whack him constantly. Once hes under ur control hes all yours. This worked for me! o^w^)o

 

[Kain17]

even ZSS isnt my main, i use her quie a bit so lemme just say that if he tries Lazer Hold thiny just crawl over. and dont forget about ZSS's good range. b-down or dodge, then use the laser whip to whack him constantly. Once hes under ur control hes all yours. This worked for me! o^w^)o

Well, you know, that works if you're fighting a scrub, but most people that are competent with falco tend to use moves other than neutral b. If we're talking about metagame falco versus our current metagame ZSS, then you might as well use a secondary.

 

[noradseven]

^^^ yeah p. much I have far more luck with like sheik/marth than I do with ZSS, but I hate playing more than 1 character in a tourney because then it feels like im not repping them as hard.

even ZSS isnt my main, i use her quie a bit so lemme just say that if he tries Lazer Hold thiny just crawl over. and dont forget about ZSS's good range. b-down or dodge, then use the laser whip to whack him constantly. Once hes under ur control hes all yours. This worked for me! o^w^)o

I hope this is a fake post, if its not you seriously don't know what you are doing, or maybe its your friend that doesn't who knows.

Falco is a bad match for more reasons than over B camping.

 

[sasook]

I hope this is a fake post, if its not you seriously don't know what you are doing, or maybe its your friend that doesn't who knows.

Falco is a bad match for more reasons than over B camping.

He's a new user, keep in mind. He probably doesn't know the full extent/metagame of both characters.

 

[Tien2500]

I get consistently CPed by Falco... By people who don't really know Falco but figure "hey he's good against ZSS" and then they get Dsmashed to death. Of course against a Falco who knows what they're doing it gets harder.

Try Cping Norfair or RC.

 

[Zero]

If you learn the matchup meticulously, people who just play Falco to counterpick you should not be a hassle. The proficient Falco's are the one's you have to worry about. As with all characters, though.

 

[fkacyan]

If you learn the matchup meticulously, people who just play Falco to counterpick you should not be a hassle. The proficient Falco's are the one's you have to worry about. As with all characters, though.

All Falco has to do to shut ZSS down is SHDL, downB, and CG to spike (Which is a kill on quite a few stages). It's extremely depressing how simplistic the matchup is for him.

It wouldn't be as bad if armor pieces weren't completely and utterly useless.

 

[Zero]

All Falco has to do to shut ZSS down is SHDL, downB, and CG to spike (Which is a kill on quite a few stages). It's extremely depressing how simplistic the matchup is for him.

It wouldn't be as bad if armor pieces weren't completely and utterly useless.

The CG spike is a very simple, easy meteor cancel. You should not die from the meteor smash. It's not as simple as SHDL, as you can crawl under that, and dtilt with discretion or shield. I have no answer for dB though, it's not a particularly good option for the Falco either. But the point is that it still requires some thinking on the Falco's part. Just much, much more for us.

PS walk also works pretty well.

Keeping one armour piece and not using it until mid percentages would probably result in an easy kill for us. It would be tough for us to do, but consolidating often and making sure that armour piece is still there could be a useful strategy for the first stock of a match.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yeah, the match-up sucks badly but it isn't Dedede/Link status like a lot of people say it is. It's more like MK/Marth than ICs/Ganon or something, heh.

Falco has to think and plan. It's not as simple as LASERS CG SPIKE.

Regardless, if you know the guy is going to pick Falco it's smarter just to go with another character.

 

[Zero]

Smarter, yes, but how are we going to develop counter strategies if we don't actually try the matchup? This is why norad is awesome :D

 

[Kain17]

Smarter, yes, but how are we going to develop counter strategies if we don't actually try the matchup? This is why norad is awesome :D

To victory, comrades. The falco matchup will suck no longer.

 

[Linkark07]

Thanks for all the advices guys.
I can say a strat my pal does. He sometimes try to grab and then throw down and then B down; for some reason the throw doesn't throw me away and instead I land close to Falco so he start to spam the same moves.

 

[noradseven]

does the falco d-toss, seriously after a d-toss this is what a falco should do.

d-toss -> walk/dash regrab ->go back to beginning
...........-> DAC grab -> go back to beginning
...........->dashattack -> land punish with f-smash (easily jumped out of)
..................................-> instantly cancel to a u-smash(escapable especially with ZSS)
...........->retreating neutral B for camp reset lol
...........->sj. d-air
...........->sj. fastfall n-air-> u-tilt
........................................-> regrab
........................................-> fsmash
........................................->dash attack -> instant cancel u-smash

Note alot of those arn't exactly true combos just gay *** setups that can be tricy to escape especially with so many options, also note the lack of down B, just don't do that.

All Falco has to do to shut ZSS down is SHDL, downB, and CG to spike (Which is a kill on quite a few stages). It's extremely depressing how simplistic the matchup is for him.

It wouldn't be as bad if armor pieces weren't completely and utterly useless.

CG spike doesn't work(we escape around 40%, and reaction up B grabs ledges, we will not die from a spike for a good while.) also lol armor pieces are the only good thing in this fight, if you still have pieces u can shut his game down. Its just overall his move set is bad for us.

Also yeah we totally **** hard on norfair and RC, its a strong advantagous us.

Let me put it this way, only a falco main(or a close secondary) should CP ZSS with falco, if not they will kinda get owned, because you really have to know the character really well, because alot of the lol gimmicks taht work with most the cast doesn't work exactly the same against ZSS.

I am going to rate the matchup on what I think it is, by level too at least the ones I have decent exp with the match on.

FD 2.5:7.5 falco (we are ****ed) <---ban this so hard
Japes 3:7 falco (really really player dependent, I actually have like a decent track record vs falco on this one)
Smashville 3.5:6.5 falco (p. **** bad)
Yoshi's Island 5:5 (its a close match what can I say)
BF 5.5:4.5 ZSS (this is a weird map I think we win it overall, but it definity has some thigns for falco)
Brinstar 6:4 ZSS (its kinda tricky but lots of platforms lots of love)
RC 7:3 ZSS (watch out for gimps with spike and other junk at low percents)
norfair 7:3 ZSS (you should win this seriously now)

I don't have much exp with other levels, but yeah.


edit: Also drop the pieces to punish roll/over B against falco don't throw them you clods.