It seems that Zelda's forward and up smashes have become some of her main staple moves, and I know that they're great (if used correctly). But I also know that her forward and up tilts are great too. I was just wondering when it would be truly beneficiary to use the tilts instead of the smashes. Has anyone done research to see whether the tilts are significantly faster than the smashes? Are the hitboxes/ranges significantly different? Thanks in advance for the input.
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F/Usmash vs F/Utilt
- Thread starter hrag
- Start date
stingers
Smash Obsessed
I'm currently writing a Zelda guide, and Utilt/Ftilt are generally better moves in...most situations because they come out a lot faster and are impossible to escape (while Fsmash and Usmash can be escaped with proper DI)
But Fsmash/Usmash are used a lot more because...they're a lot easier to use, probably. It's a lot easier to hit Up on the C-stick then it is to slowly move your control stick upwards and hit A
But Fsmash/Usmash are used a lot more because...they're a lot easier to use, probably. It's a lot easier to hit Up on the C-stick then it is to slowly move your control stick upwards and hit A
Unless its much harder to perform tilts in Brawl, ive never ever understood the issue with performing tilts. Just move (not bash) the control stick in whatever direction, prior to hitting the A button. I suppose however, i abuse the crap out of tilts and neutral attacks in melee so i'm jusy 'used to it'.I'm currently writing a Zelda guide, and Utilt/Ftilt are generally better moves in...most situations because they come out a lot faster and are impossible to escape (while Fsmash and Usmash can be escaped with proper DI)
But Fsmash/Usmash are used a lot more because...they're a lot easier to use, probably. It's a lot easier to hit Up on the C-stick then it is to slowly move your control stick upwards and hit A
Again though, is it harder to perform tilts in Brawl than Melee?
I don't agree that utilt/ftilt are generally better moves.
The mutli-hit nature of the smashes are actually better on those who charge in- for example someone who charges in and just shield dashes. The fsmash will give you multiple hits on the shield that pushes them away in a way that the ftilt won't, and has a much more likely chance to catch someone at the edge of their spotdodge. You can use both in this defensive manner quickly for greater damage, and then when KO time comes around utilt and ftilt are fresh and kill easily. In addition to the hyphensmashing of the upsmash.
The mutli-hit nature of the smashes are actually better on those who charge in- for example someone who charges in and just shield dashes. The fsmash will give you multiple hits on the shield that pushes them away in a way that the ftilt won't, and has a much more likely chance to catch someone at the edge of their spotdodge. You can use both in this defensive manner quickly for greater damage, and then when KO time comes around utilt and ftilt are fresh and kill easily. In addition to the hyphensmashing of the upsmash.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Ah, what you said doesn't occur very often though - while Fsmash would be better in that scenario (the shield dashing one), how many people just run into you and then shield? Not very many people approach like that . And I said that Ftilt is generally better, not always better. Of course Fsmash has its uses over Ftilt :D
One thing I didn't mention though is that Usmash kills at lower percents then Utilt, so that's something to consider while fighting. Utilt isn't always a better choice then Usmash, of course >_>
. And I said that Ftilt is generally better, not always better. Of course Fsmash has its uses over Ftilt :DOne thing I didn't mention though is that Usmash kills at lower percents then Utilt, so that's something to consider while fighting. Utilt isn't always a better choice then Usmash, of course >_>
Mac2492
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2004
- Messages
- 78
UTilt KOs at 120%, while FTilt KOs at 140%... (estimates)
They're amazing! I tend to use them over smash moves once my opponent hits 120%.
As far as I've noticed, the UTilt kill at a lower percentage than USmash does unless you charge USmash up.
They're amazing! I tend to use them over smash moves once my opponent hits 120%.
As far as I've noticed, the UTilt kill at a lower percentage than USmash does unless you charge USmash up.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
I just tested on a Ganondorf - Utilt killed at 115%, Usmash killed at 119%
Not a huge difference :/ so either should be good for any killing purposes
Not a huge difference :/ so either should be good for any killing purposes
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
I also never understood what´s the problem in performing tilts. Only one I have troubles in Melee is U-tilt because I tend to jump. Luckily stick jump can be turned off in Brawl.
I think that reasons why smashes are favored above tilts is that smashes last a bit longer and have a bit longer hitbox , so you can sometimes hit with them when you can´t with tilts. And noobs favor them because they´re smashes (OMG it´s smash attack, it´s got to be best choise in every situation!)
BTW hello Mac! Didn´t know you play Zelda.
S2
Smash Lord
Yeah, they actually do about the same knockback.
A good thing to keep in mind is if you have a stupid opponent who keeps attacking you from the top, you can switch between the up tilt and the up smash in order to manage your stale move decay.
Ztarfish
Smash Journeyman
I dunno, Ftilt is no problem for me but I tend to avoid Utilt because unless I do it slowly, I always jump and that's inappropriate at sometimes.
I suppose I could redo the controls, but I like jumping with the joystick >_<
I suppose I could redo the controls, but I like jumping with the joystick >_<
Fsmash is easily escapable in comparison to Usmash, and the knockback isn't all that great compared to her other moves. Ftilt wins out against it, though when Fsmash does connect the damage is pretty solid.
Usmash is way faster than Utilt though, and the range is about the same. Difference is that Usmash sucks people in and destroys rolls/sidesteps/airdodges while Utilt is basically a single chance. I personally prefer Usmash over Utilt, but they both serve a purpose. Usmash does more damage and is far better at racking damage (when it's not escaped) while Utilt is better to save and kill with. Considering how hard it is escape Usmash in comparison to Fsmash and how easy it is to dodge Utilt, I'd say they're equally risky to use.
Usmash is way faster than Utilt though, and the range is about the same. Difference is that Usmash sucks people in and destroys rolls/sidesteps/airdodges while Utilt is basically a single chance. I personally prefer Usmash over Utilt, but they both serve a purpose. Usmash does more damage and is far better at racking damage (when it's not escaped) while Utilt is better to save and kill with. Considering how hard it is escape Usmash in comparison to Fsmash and how easy it is to dodge Utilt, I'd say they're equally risky to use.
FinalKai
Smash Apprentice
I've been trying to incorporate the Ftilt and Utilt more into my Zelda Gameplay...and i used to use them a decent amount in Melee...
I think Ftilt is a good move...nice and quick...and Utilt is a pretty good move to protect yourself with...i usually try to follow up with a Utilit if i see someone approaching me from above or behind me...the good thing about Utilt is that it has pretty good priority and the dmg and knockback properties are pretty much equal throughout the duration of the animation.
I've been mainly trying to make use of all of Zelda's moves just because of Decay on attacks...but with Zelda it doesn't matter too much since all her moves are good KO moves...and add that to the fact that you can reset your moves by turning into Shiek and turning back then you have little reason to use other moves...other than avoiding being predictable
I think Ftilt is a good move...nice and quick...and Utilt is a pretty good move to protect yourself with...i usually try to follow up with a Utilit if i see someone approaching me from above or behind me...the good thing about Utilt is that it has pretty good priority and the dmg and knockback properties are pretty much equal throughout the duration of the animation.
I've been mainly trying to make use of all of Zelda's moves just because of Decay on attacks...but with Zelda it doesn't matter too much since all her moves are good KO moves...and add that to the fact that you can reset your moves by turning into Shiek and turning back then you have little reason to use other moves...other than avoiding being predictable
Homunkurusu
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2008
- Messages
- 8
While I do agree with everyone that Zelda's tilts are quite excellent, they are kinda unreliable for me. Personally I think that Zelda's tilts seem especially picky between tilting all the way or too little, as I am able to preform many characters tilts far easier than Zelda's. Lastly her tilts have some dangerously long animations... while her smashes continue to hurt during their attack, if the tilt misses, you are left VERY exposed, especially Utilt, if you miss on one side - heaven help you.
With uptilt and upsmash i tend to use uptilt for killing and upsmash for racking up damage. Upsmash is so great with hyphen dashing chasing airborne characters. It is also easy to use since it hits on both sides of you at the same time while uptilt goes infront of you first. I usually save my utilt for koing.
I can't stress this combo enough
Dtilt > uptilt
At high percents it kills. Dtilt can be used out of a shield very fast and it comes out quick. Dtilt then pops them right up into the uptilt hitbox and with the isa frames on dtilt, utilt comes out very fast and sends them straight up for the star ko.
As for ftilt i still can't get the hang of it for koing. I think i use this for racking up damage or a change of pace rather than koing. I never know where it is going to send the opponent. Sometimes they go straight up some times forward sometimes behind me. If someone can help me out with that it would be great.
I can't stress this combo enough
Dtilt > uptilt
At high percents it kills. Dtilt can be used out of a shield very fast and it comes out quick. Dtilt then pops them right up into the uptilt hitbox and with the isa frames on dtilt, utilt comes out very fast and sends them straight up for the star ko.
As for ftilt i still can't get the hang of it for koing. I think i use this for racking up damage or a change of pace rather than koing. I never know where it is going to send the opponent. Sometimes they go straight up some times forward sometimes behind me. If someone can help me out with that it would be great.
Luthien
Smash Ace
In my opinion, the fact that you can slide while using usmash automatically makes usmash > utilt. Great for chasing.