Data Extra Shielddamage

[Luigi player]

Here's some data / the result of me looking through the kuroganehammer site & a data dump (complete sources at the end of this post).

This information can help to estimate if moves could break a shield or not, or to know if it's just better to not shield and try to dodge an attack to avoid too much shielddamage.
Though the normal damage a move would do must be considered to accurately estimate the real shielddamage a shield would get, because:

shielddamage = damage a move would do + extra shielddamage

So it won't suffice to just look at the extra shielddamage provided in this thread if one can't at least estimate how much damage a move normally does.

Example:
DKs downB groundpound / handslap normally does ~14 % damage. The +1 extra shielddamage wouldn't look like much, but considering that DK slaps twice pretty fast, a shield that has to withstand this would receive 30 damage ((14+1)*2), which is more than half of a shields HP (about 72 % of its max HP). And don't forget that keeping up a shield will also drain it's HP. Thus making it a scary move to shield.

If you don't know and or want to know the damage moves do you could for example look at the character boards or kuroganehammer's site.


General Shield Infos:

Shield max HP: 42 (Shulk in Shield Monado has 63 HP)
A shield apparently loses 1 HP per ~9 active frames, so it lives ~382 frames, aka ~6.3 seconds.
It doesn't lose HP during shieldstun or a powershield.

Shielddamage = Moves Damage + Extra Shielddamage

Extra Shielddamge:

*Notes:
- Some are still missing, because a few moves with extra shielddamage (in the data dump) are labeled as unknown. Plus DLC characters aren't included in the data dump.

- The data dump is from an early version of the game, so DKs sideB or Marth/Lucins neutralB are listed there to have +30 shielddamage. This was changed to +25 during the patch that had more shieldchanges. It's not impossible that other moves were changed as well, so not all of this data might be 100 % correct (though most or all of the other moves didn't get extra shielddamage changes, so it's likely that no others were changed).

- Some throws might be listed like this: "- Fthrow: frame 12-13 hitbox +1". The hitbox very likely appears at frame 12 in this case, but in the data dump another hitbox for throws, one before the throwhitbox, is listed. And as early as frame 1. I'm assuming these might just be the actual throw data that the thrown character gets hit with, but I'm not sure, but they're likely not active hitboxes that could hit other characters / hurtboxes.


All or most characters:
- Grounded Getup Attack: each hit +8 (Sonics (all) and Bowser Jr.s (if on back) deal +10)
- Ledge Getup Attack: +1


Bowser:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- UpB: aerial first hit +3
- DownB: stomp hit +5, landing hit: +5

Captain Falcon:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- SideB: ground +4, aerial +2

Charizard:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1

Cloud:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1

DK:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- Fsmash: +1
- Dsmash: +1
- Usmash: +4
- DownB: +1
- SideB: +25
- NeutralB: non fully charged +2
- UpB: grounded first hit +1, aerial all (8) hits +1

Duck Hunt:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- Dtilt: +1

Falco:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- Fthrow: strong +1
- DownB: +5

Fox:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- Fthrow: strong +1

Ganondorf:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- Utilt: +20

Greninja:
- Dashattack: +1
- DownB: attack +5

Ike:
- Ftilt: any angle +1
- NeutralB: uncharged +1, charged +30 (almost full charge and full charge have +30, otherwise it seems to stay +1)

Jigglypuff:
- Fthrow: frame 10-11 hitbox +1
- SideB: +20

King Dedede:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +3
- Fsmash: late aka strong part +4
- UpB: falling down +3, landing +3

Link:
- Fthrow: frame 12-13 hitbox +1
- Bthrow: frame 12-13 hitbox +1
- Dthrow: frame 22-23 hitbox +1

Little Mac:
- Fsmash: downangled +4

Lucario:
- NeutralB: fully charged +3

Lucina:
- NeutralB: no charge +25, full charge +50
- SideB (grounded): hit2 forward +1, hit3 +1, hit4 up +1/forward +5/down all +1

Luigi:
- Fsmash: all angles +5
- SideB: +4 (Misfire too)

Mario:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- SideB: +4

Dr.Mario:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- SideB: +4

Marth:
- NeutralB: no charge +25, full charge +50
- SideB (grounded): hit2 forward +1, hit3 +1, hit4 up +1/forward +5/down (only tippers?) all +1

Megaman:
- Jab1/2/3: (the hit on his blaster/hand) +1
- Dashattack: all hits +1
- Nair1/2/3: (the hit on his blaster/hand) +1
- SideB: explosion first 4 hits (not final) +1

Metaknight:
- Rapid Jab: all hits +1 (not finisher)

Mewtwo:
- NeutralB: fully charged +3

Mii (Brawler):
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- NeutralB 2: full charge (air + ground) +3
- SideB 2: strong hit +6
- DownB 2: +5

Mii (Gunner):
- Fthrow: frame 10-11 hitbox +1
- SideB 3: homing +1, super +5
- DownB 2: on-hit +6, explosion +6

Mii (Sword):
- NeutralB 3: the hit before the final hit (frame 22-23) +1

Mr. Game & Watch:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- SideB [Nr. 3]: +25

Ness:
- Dashattack: all 3 hits +1
- Fair: all (4) hits +1

Olimar:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1

Pacman:
- Dashattack: final hit +1

Palutena:
- Dashattack: strong +3
- Ftilt: hits 1 & 2 +1
- Utilt: all hits +1
- Dtilt: +1
- Fsmash: +1
- Dsmash: windbox (frame 20-27) +1
- Nair: all normal hits +1, final hit +3
- Fair: +3
- Bair: +3
[- SideB: +1, but unblockable]

Pikachu:
- Fthrow: frame 11-14 hitboxes (4) all +1
- Uthrow: frame 14-15 hitbox +1
- Dthrow: frame 13-14 hitbox +1
- DownB: bolt +1, strike (= contact with Pikachu?) +2
- NeutralB: +1

Peach:
- Usmash: +4
- NeutralB: (activated) all +1
- SideB: +6

Ryu:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +2
- Ftilt: normal hit1 +8 hit2 +20
- Dthrow: first hit +50
- Fair: close hit +15
- DownB: stage1 +15, stage2 (crumple) +22, stage3 +30 [but unblockable]

Samus:
- UpB: grounded all hits (hits 11 times) +3, aerial all hits (hits 12 times) +3
- DownB: bomb +6, explosion +6
- NeutralB: fully charged +3
- SideB: homing +1, super +5

Sheik:
- Dashattack: strong & weak +1
- Fthrow: frame 20-21 hitbox +1
- Bthrow: frame 15-16 hitbox +1
- Uthrow: frame 19-20 hitbox +1
- Dthrow: frame 26-30 hitbox +1

Shulk:
- SideB: normal hit +7, landing hit +10

Toon Link:
- Fthrow: frame 12-13 hitbox +1
- Dthrow: frame 22-23 hitbox +1

Villager:
- DownB: axe +6, tree growing +6, tree falling +6

Yoshi:
- DownB: stomp hit +10, stars +6

__________________________

List of moves to especially watch out for because of easy shield breaking:

Note: Listed moves will / can deal at least 30 shielddamage. If there are other stages of the move then those will be listed as well.

Spoiler: List

Shielddamage is listed like this: (+number)
Results in blue are critical (shieldbreaks; aka they do at least 42 shielddamage).

In general: all moves that deal a lot of damage (smash attacks, Yoshis dair, some specials, many of Lucarios moves with max Aura, etc.)

Bowser:
- DownB:

- grounded: 4 (initial hit) + 20 (stomp) (+5) + 11 (landing) (+5) = 45
- aerial: 20 (stomp) (+5) + 11 (landing) (+5) = 41​

DK:
- DownB (grounded): (14 (+1))*2 = 30 [2 slaps fast after another (3 slaps would already do 45 shielddamage)]
- SideB: 10 (+25) = 35
- UpB (aerial): 10 (initial hit) (+1) + 16-20 (hits 2-5) (+4) + 6 (hits 6-8) (+3) = 40-44 [hits 2-5 do 4 % each at the hands, 5 at the arms(?)]

Ganondorf:
- Utilt: 18-28 (+20) = 38-48 (does 18 % at the "tip" very far away, 20 a bit far away, 28 normally)

Ike:
- NeutralB (almost full and fully charged): 35 (+30) = 65

Jigglypuff:
- SideB: 11 (+20) = 31

King Dedede:
- Fsmash (late aka strong part):

uncharged: 24 (+4) = 28
charged: 33 (+4) = 37​

- UpB: 15 (stomp) (+3) + 10 (landing) (+3) + 5 (star) = 36 [probably only one star would hit]

Little Mac:
- Fsmash (downangled):

uncharged: 24 (+4) = 28
fully charged: 33 (+4) = 37​

Lucario:
- NeutralB (fully charged):

no Aura (same stock): 11 (+3) = 14
max Aura (same stock): 29 (+3) = 32​

Lucina:
- NeutralB:

no charge: 8.5 (+25) = 33.5
full charge: 23 (+50) = 73​

Marth:
- NeutralB:

no charge: 8 (normal) / 9 (tipper) (+25) = 33 / 34
full charge: 22 (normal) / 24 (tipper) (+50) = 72 / 74​

Mr. Game & Watch:
- SideB:

- [Nr. 3]: 6 (+25) = 31
- [Nr. 9]: 32​

Ryu:
- Ftilt (normal): 3 (hit1) (+8) + 6 (hit2) (+20) = 37
- Dthrow: 5 (+50) = 55
- DownB:

stage1: 12 (+15) = 27
stage2 (crumple): 10 (+22) = 32
stage3 [unblockable]​

Samus:
- UpB:

grounded: 2 (first hit) (+3) + 10 (hits 2-11) (+30) = 45
aerial: 12 (hits 1-12) (+36) = 48​

Villager:
- DownB (falling tree): 25 (+6) = 31

Yoshi:
- DownB:

- grounded: 4 (initial hit) + 15 (stomp hit) (+10) + (4 (star) (+6))*2 = 49 (both stars could hit; though sometimes the stars will shieldpoke (= hit you and not your shield because it's too small))
- aerial: 12 (stomp hit) (+10) + (4 (star) (+6))*2 = 42 (same note as above)​

__________________________

Sources:

- kuroganehammer.com/Smash4
- Data Dump: pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8 (a little outdated)
- ssbwiki.com/Shield_damage
- @Yikarur

 

[Kofu]

I know for sure that the throw hitboxes listed can hit other characters. Ryu's DThrow will break an opponent's shield instantly.

Nice compilation! Not sure of the difference of the bomb vs. the explosion for Samus's Bomb, as I don't think making contact with the bomb before it explodes deals damage (though it will make it explode sooner). Gunner's Bombs work a bit differently as they trigger on hit but again, not sure if bomb and explosion are actually different.

 

[Luigi player]

I know for sure that the throw hitboxes listed can hit other characters. Ryu's DThrow will break an opponent's shield instantly.

That much is obvious.

My point in the note is that throw-hitboxes in the data dump are listed like this:

For Sheikfor example:
F-throw
- Frame 1-19: 2% 80b/65g (KO@ 656%) 70°
- Frame 20-21: 5%(+1) 0f/80w 361°
- Max Damage: 7%

Now, I don't think frame 1-19 is a hitbox. It's probably just the throw itself, which only effects the one who is grabbed. Then the other hitbox occurs which will hit the grabbed one, and it's also a normal hitbox that can hit others too.

-> Just tested this to make sure: the hitbox that can hit others occurs kinda late, definitely not frame 1 or anywhere close. It's likely frame 20-21, like it's listed there, and it does 5%, can hit shields (likely with the +1 extra shielddamage).

Though what is interesting is that Sheiks fthrow will not induce hitstun or knockback if you don't shield. It's like Fox' laser. That's something good to know for doubles, and kinda weird.

Anyway, this is why I wrote it in the OP like this:
Link:
- Fthrow: frame 12-13 hitbox +1

"frame 12-13 hitbox", indicating that there is another hitbox there, which there probably isn't. I would've just wrote "Fthrow: +1" if I was sure there would not be another hitbox there. I assumed it was like that, but wasn't 100 % sure and it's kinda weird to me that another hitbox is listed as 1-(one frame before the actual hitbox). I also thought that knowing when it occurs wouldn't hurt that much anyway.

As for Ryus case, it's just listed as "first hit +50", because on kuroganehammer, it's listed like this: Base Dmg. "5 (+50), 4".
So it's obvious that in this case the note doesn't even really matter.

Sorry if I come off as a little rude, but I clearly noted it in the OP and you can see it if you look it up under Ryu. Even more suprising that someone else actually said something like this to me "whoa did you see what someone posted in your thread about Ryus dthrow..", when it's clearly listed under Ryu that his dthrow has +50 extra shielddamage.

People need to read more. I guess I could mark moves with a lot of extra shielddamage or in combination with a lot of damage to note the most dangerous ones, because many of the ones with +1 don't really change too much.

Nice compilation! Not sure of the difference of the bomb vs. the explosion for Samus's Bomb, as I don't think making contact with the bomb before it explodes deals damage (though it will make it explode sooner). Gunner's Bombs work a bit differently as they trigger on hit but again, not sure if bomb and explosion are actually different.

About Samus' bomb: Just tested this and if a bomb hits someones shield it's getting noticably smaller and it actually does hit shields. It also disappeard when I let it fall down on the shield from above.

Then I placed a bomb to the side of someone and shielded it after it bounced off the ground. Not sure if this is exactly how this works but it hit his shield, didn't disappear (probably since it already touched the ground) and then exploded, instantly causing a shieldbreak (though the shield was already weakened from the bombtesting before that), so this did a greater amount of shielddamage together like it's noted that each hit does +6, and the bomb itself does 9 damage (in training mode). This makes it seem that it can really all add together for a massive +21 damage on a shield, which is half of a shields max HP.

Thanks for noting this though, I wasn't sure how exactly it worked, but it's good to know.

Edit: got it now I think.

The initial hit of the bomb does 4 %, shielddamage is +6.
The explosion of the bomb does 5 %, also with +6 shielddamage.

So a full bomb does 10 + 11 = 21 shielddamage. (half a shields max HP)
If it disappears while hitting a shield (no explosion) it will deal 4 + 6 = 10 shielddamage. (about 1/4th of the shields max HP)


Edit 2: added new list of moves to especially watch out for in the OP (or just look below).

List of moves to especially watch out for because of easy shield breaking:

Note: Listed moves will / can deal at least 30 shielddamage. If there are other stages of the move then those will be listed as well.

Spoiler: List

Shielddamage is listed like this: (+number)
Results in blue are critical (shieldbreaks; aka they do at least 42 shielddamage).

In general: all moves that deal a lot of damage (smash attacks, Yoshis dair, some specials, many of Lucarios moves with max Aura, etc.)

Bowser:
- DownB:

- grounded: 4 (initial hit) + 20 (stomp) (+5) + 11 (landing) (+5) = 45
- aerial: 20 (stomp) (+5) + 11 (landing) (+5) = 41​

DK:
- DownB (grounded): (14 (+1))*2 = 30 [2 slaps fast after another (3 slaps would already do 45 shielddamage)]
- SideB: 10 (+25) = 35
- UpB (aerial): 10 (initial hit) (+1) + 16-20 (hits 2-5) (+4) + 6 (hits 6-8) (+3) = 40-44 [hits 2-5 do 4 % each at the hands, 5 at the arms(?)]

Ganondorf:
- Utilt: 18-28 (+20) = 38-48 (does 18 % at the "tip" very far away, 20 a bit far away, 28 normally)

Ike:
- NeutralB (almost full and fully charged): 35 (+30) = 65

Jigglypuff:
- SideB: 11 (+20) = 31

King Dedede:
- Fsmash (late aka strong part):

uncharged: 24 (+4) = 28
charged: 33 (+4) = 37​

- UpB: 15 (stomp) (+3) + 10 (landing) (+3) + 5 (star) = 36 [probably only one star would hit]

Little Mac:
- Fsmash (downangled):

uncharged: 24 (+4) = 28
fully charged: 33 (+4) = 37​

Lucario:
- NeutralB (fully charged):

no Aura (same stock): 11 (+3) = 14
max Aura (same stock): 29 (+3) = 32​

Lucina:
- NeutralB:

no charge: 8.5 (+25) = 33.5
full charge: 23 (+50) = 73​

Marth:
- NeutralB:

no charge: 8 (normal) / 9 (tipper) (+25) = 33 / 34
full charge: 22 (normal) / 24 (tipper) (+50) = 72 / 74​

Mr. Game & Watch:
- SideB:

- [Nr. 3]: 6 (+25) = 31
- [Nr. 9]: 32​

Ryu:
- Ftilt (normal): 3 (hit1) (+8) + 6 (hit2) (+20) = 37
- Dthrow: 5 (+50) = 55
- DownB:

stage1: 12 (+15) = 27
stage2 (crumple): 10 (+22) = 32
stage3 [unblockable]​

Samus:
- UpB:

grounded: 2 (first hit) (+3) + 10 (hits 2-11) (+30) = 45
aerial: 12 (hits 1-12) (+36) = 48​

Villager:
- DownB (falling tree): 25 (+6) = 31

Yoshi:
- DownB:

- grounded: 4 (initial hit) + 15 (stomp hit) (+10) + (4 (star) (+6))*2 = 49 (both stars could hit; though sometimes the stars will shieldpoke (= hit you and not your shield because it's too small))
- aerial: 12 (stomp hit) (+10) + (4 (star) (+6))*2 = 42 (same note as above)​

 

[Kofu]

Luigi player it's all good. My comment about Ryu's DThrow was directed at this part of the OP:

Some throws might be listed like this: "- Fthrow: frame 12-13 hitbox +1". The hitbox very likely appears at frame 12 in this case, but in the data dump another hitbox for throws, one before the throwhitbox, is listed. And as early as frame 1. I'm assuming these might just be the actual throw data that the thrown character gets hit with, but I'm not sure, but they're likely not active hitboxes that could hit other characters / hurtboxes.

The response you just gave clears up a little of what snippet was trying to clarify. The way throws are listed in Thinkaman's data dump is a little weird and I believe that the order of throw hitboxes is sometimes incorrect. Part of what got me looking into throw kill percents was that dump claiming that Lucario's UThrow kills super early. Turns out it does... but only on opponents standing next to Lucario as he performs the throw. I've been retesting throw kill percents for the Wii U and checking which throws hit bystanders. So far the throws that do have multiple hits and it's only the hitboxes before the final throw that do.

I wasn't trying to state the obvious with Ryu's DThrow breaking shields, honest.

 

[Empyrean]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but does extra shield damage have any effect on shieldstun? Doesn't feel like it but it would be nice to have confirmation.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but does extra shield damage have any effect on shieldstun? Doesn't feel like it but it would be nice to have confirmation.

Nope. Only base damage decides shieldstun and shield push.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Cool, I still haven't gotten around to adding all the SD numbers so this will be useful to me.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Guessing the "stomp" hit for Yoshi's Downb is ground pound, either way cool on the aerial data on shields for the move finally being done.

 

[Luigi player]

Cool, I still haven't gotten around to adding all the SD numbers so this will be useful to me.

Glad I can help. But if you get around to look for shielddamage for DLC characters that would be nice :]

I'm pretty sure Mewtwo has the same +3 extra shielddamage on a fully charged Shadow Ball for example (that Lucario and Samus have).

Guessing the "stomp" hit for Yoshi's Downb is ground pound, either way cool on the aerial data on shields for the move finally being done.

The "stomp" is when characters move downward. It's not the initial hit (that pops upwards into the stronger falling hit for grounded versions of Yoshi/Bowser) and the stars or landing should be self explanatory.

 

[Lavani]

I'm pretty sure Mewtwo has the same +3 extra shielddamage on a fully charged Shadow Ball for example (that Lucario and Samus have).

Posting to confirm this.

 

[Masonomace]

May I suggest an inclusion to the spoiler's Listed moves will / can deal at least 30 shielddamage?
Buster Shulk's Back Slash sweetspotted on the back during the Startup or Falling phase deals 29.4%, & 26.6% for the sourspot on the back. Buster Shulk's Back Slash sweetspotted on the back during the Landing phase deals 31%, & 28.2% for the sourspot on the back.

If it's not too much trouble, could Custom specials that have a Shield Damage modifier get included too?