Extra Animation added to Dash Dancing (Clip Included)

[Octavium]

In previous smash games, dash dancing often involved the player character turning around instantly during an opposite direction dash input.
This often looked and felt a little unatural and was a solid argument against the re-implementation of a useful version of that technique.

But I've noticed that in smash ultimate, this problem was circumvented by simply adding a very quick turnaround animation when dash dancing, its important to remember that this isn't part of the skid animation, it is its own unique thing.

Here's the capture clip in 1/4x speed

As you can see fox actually turns around when trying to dash in the opposite direction, this must mean that this animation was also added to every other character's dash dance. Sakurai has really outdone it this time.

 

[Octavium]

Gif at full speed

 

[Necro'lic]

And the ONE thing I disliked about dashdancing has been addressed. It's almost like Ultimate is too good to be true. :D

 

[lordvaati]

IIRC Mango said that Inkling is the best Dash Dancer in the game so far.
With this revolation added to that....fun times for me

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

In terms of aesthetics they really thought of everything for this game.

Hey, if they do bring back wavedashing, how about some fancy visual effect? Like some sparks along the distance that we slide.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

In terms of aesthetics they really thought of everything for this game.

Hey, if they do bring back wavedashing, how about some fancy visual effect? Like some sparks along the distance that we slide.

Isn't wavedashing kind of obsolete now that you can perform any action immediately out of a dash? (at least, that's my understanding of it)

 

[Praxis]

I believe this is incorrect.

This is basically the same animation you see when you do Fox's Foxtrot in Smash 4.

In fact, I'm not actually convinced this game has "dash dancing" as we typically refer to it.

It looks and sounds to me, based on direct conversations with people who have played it, that it's basically fox trotting. There's still a minimum dash distance you have to achieve.

The tl;dr is that Ultimate only has Fox Trotting, no DD.

However, the actual dash startup is drastically reduced compared to previous games. Since everyone has very short initial dashes, and the game probably buffers your input, this creates the perception of a dash dance. You tap forward, then tap back- the character finishes their short initial dash, then restarts a new dash back the other way. It's actually just a fox trot with a really short initial dash.

Basically, everyone has a better version of Cloud's Smash 4 Fox Trot:

or Melee Sheik's Fox Trot (top is fox trot, bottom is dash dance):

Here's a Smash 4 video on Fox Trotting.

It looks similar, right? Just that they're shorter and have bigger smoke clouds in Ultimate.

For some saying "Well, what's the difference from a true dash dance then?"

I made a little chart for each game. Basically, after you dash, the "green" areas are when you can restart your dash the other direction.

Sorry this is crappy, I did it sloppily in paint. This is my understanding. The green boxes around the blue line is the window you can foxtrot in.

So when you watch videos with Little Mac or Fox doing a ton of dashdances, they're mixing up short ones with full dash startup length. But they're actually limited in the variance they can do.

Now, the nice part is that in Melee, you can cancel the latter red section with a crouch or wavedash, and in Smash 4, you can cancel the latter red part with any move it looks like. And since you can repeat a Foxtrot, a shorter fox trot distance is much more flexible. So Ultimate has very much more movement flexibility than Brawl or Smash 4- but it's still much inferior to true dash dancing, unfortunately.

I'm not one of the "Ultimate should be Melee" people- but I would've liked either true dashdancing or just make the whole thing green (no skidding ever).

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Isn't wavedashing kind of obsolete now that you can perform any action immediately out of a dash? (at least, that's my understanding of it)

It opens up the neutral a lot more because you can fade-in and out much easier

 

[Praxis]

Isn't wavedashing kind of obsolete now that you can perform any action immediately out of a dash? (at least, that's my understanding of it)

Sorta.

Wavedashing had a few main purposes, most of which have been covered:
(A) get out of shield faster - shields drop faster in later games, so not necessary
(B) Escape run and perform any move - mostly unnecessary now
(C) Escape initial dash with an attack*
(D) Slide off the stage backwards - unnecessary now, you can grab the ledge backwards
(E) Land on platforms faster (wavelanding)

I don't think you can actually do a move out of initial dash, so (C) is still a problem, but the initial dash is shorter so it's not that big of a problem.

I wish you could still waveland (E).

However, you're right- most of the use cases for wavedashing are covered. I'm actually fine with it being gone. Same with L-cancelling since they halved the landing lag.

I just wish there was true dashdancing- see above, I think it's more limited in Smash 4. IMHO people overstate wavedashing's necessity- you don't need the mechanic, just replacements that cover the use cases, which we now have. But I think dashdancing is actually the most important thing in Melee, since it allowed high speed footsies like other fighting games. Without it, most engagements take place by air or projectile approaches or walking.

 

[Octavium]

I believe this is incorrect.

You are half correct, I merely call this Dash Dancing because it has similar applications to 'Extended Dance Dancing/Dance Trotting', but this isn't the same as smash 4 dance trotting, smash 4 dance trotting was performed differently. Refer to this video!

Your Paint diagram to explain this new version of dash dancing isn't really correct however. The new smash game has a similar distance to transfer into run than smash 4, you can test this by seeing how soon you can foxtrot in the same direction twice in a row inside smash 4 and comparing that to smash ultimate.

What is different between smash 4 and smash ultimate, is that the timing required to turn around after having completed the dash animation is longer before being able to foxtrot the other direction, dashing away soon after a forward dash in smash 4 after the dash animation has already ended will cause your character to skid, this feels really wrong and clunky in my opinion.

In smash ultimate they changed the dashing away timing after a forward dash, to match the same timing of the dash animation, so foxtrotting continuously forward and foxtrotting away and back now have the same timing, thus is born "Dash Dancing"

 

[Necro'lic]

I think the whole "dash dancing" vs "foxtrotting" thing is honestly semantics. Do they do the same thing in terms of what they give the player in terms of offense, spacing, and defense?

 

[Venclaire]

I think the whole "dash dancing" vs "foxtrotting" thing is honestly semantics. Do they do the same thing in terms of what they give the player in terms of offense, spacing, and defense?

In a way, yes? But dash dancing gives you much more control than Fox Trotting does. Dash dancing is also considered easier to perform than fox trotting.

They're similar, but they have enough differences to differentiate them.

 

[Yeld]

Dashdancing looks weird and is obviously not something the designers intended. There is no commitment involved as you can freely move out of it at any point.

Making something similar available in Smash Ultimate, but with a slight commitment involved, is exactly the best thing we could ask for.

Making a game with no lag/recovery on any attack or movement and huge, instant hitboxes would be "best" in that everyone would be broken, but having a proper fighting game with commitments and exploitable lags is what we should actually wish for.

 

[Praxis]

I think the whole "dash dancing" vs "foxtrotting" thing is honestly semantics. Do they do the same thing in terms of what they give the player in terms of offense, spacing, and defense?

It's not semantics, have you ever utilized them?

Fox trotting has a set distance you have to traverse before you can input a new dash. Dash dancing does not.

Fox trotting is much more limited as a result. You can't move, say, one character's length, then turn around- you have to complete the initial dash.