Experienced Zamus Opinions on SH height for Brawl+

[shanus]

Hi guys, I'm one of the members of the Brawl+ Back Room and we have been in the process of optimizing character specific gravity & short hop modifications for Brawl+. Right now, we have several Zamus players with wildly different opinions on her SH height. Her physics are generally preserved as before, and so its largely falling on how to adjust her SH as a character. Remember, there is more hitstun, 50% aerial lag reduction, and other factors present within Brawl+, so short hops could serve as juggles or a new mode to approach. I'm looking forward to hearing your inputs.

Also, if you don't know much about Brawl+ or want to learn more, I recommend you check out this thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221650

Most fun I've ever had, its too good!

 

[DeliciousCake]

Making it higher would be stupid.
Making it lower would make us better.
What's the question?

 

[Adapt]

I tried the "official codeset" in the topic that almas made (I think it was feb 13th build, but it may have been the 9th), and that specific aspect of her game was fine by me. (it seemed a bit lower than regular brawl). I could quickly set up several SHFF bairs as an approach, much like wolf does in regular brawl.

Like cake said... why is this a question? Lowering it a bit will make her better.

About ZSS in general in Brawl+

Personally I like the was she handles in brawl better, possibly because I am used to it. Her d-smash was nerfed, neutral b was useless, and her jump and up-B occasionally failed to come out in time. The problems with stun are due to the hitlag modifier iirc, and I think the buffer mod may have caused my problems with jumps and up-Bs not coming out like they should. Sure I could do a couple extra combos, but I can get 50% combos in brawl anyways.

I think before you mess around with her SH height, fix the stuns.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Sooo brawl+ is just brawl but with guaranteed 0-death combos from one hit? (watched brawl+ combo vid)

I say leave her SH the same way. Don't wanna Jinx anything. Her high SH helps her counter lots of attacks OOS from the air.

 

[shanus]

Nah hitstun is only around 8% now, not nearly as prominent Spec. In terms of SH height, the reason I asked was keep it at 1, or lower. Some people like the double uair, whereas others want the SH bair to be easier to connect and so on. Just wanted the general consensus on it all.

Also Adapt, its the current hitlag modifer. We'll try and make a staggered one so that her stuns aren't nerfed.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

I'd rather have easier Uairs then Bairs. I use Uairs more in my style so I would prefer that.

 

[kuenzel]

Being able to do a ground-level Up-air, F-air, back-air, plasma shot, plasma whip....

Well, that would just be dandy! I'm going to go with what Cake said...

 

[DeliciousCake]

SH b-air is not hard to land. The people saying that don't know what they're talking about.

 

[sasook]

Lowering it would be nice, but having the double uair is nice too. I'm gonna say keep it where it's at since double uairs, bairs, and FF fairs are all pretty easy out with a SH.

 

[TheRockSays]

i got killed by my cousin using MK at 40% it was like a gimp :/

 

[shanus]

So the general consensus seems to be leaning towards keeping SH height around the same value as before. Thanks guys!

Also just letting you know for those who play Brawl+. I'm looking to increase the framespeed of both the stunner and dsmash after the hitbox has come out such that you will again have a frame advantage on those moves despite the lower hitlag present in the game.

 

[Adapt]

Don't you have it at 0.9 or 0.95 now? That is good as far as I am concerned.

 

[shanus]

Don't you have it at 0.9 or 0.95 now? That is good as far as I am concerned.

Yeah .9 still allows all the goodness from before I'm pretty sure. Looking into making the downsmash and stunner work again so all the ZSS can be happy ;-)

 

[Garde]

Doesn't decreasing SH height also reduce the height of ALL jumps? I remember reading that in the code discussion thread, unless you guys found a new modifier that only changes SH height. If it reduces the height on all her jumps, please, leave it the same, as most of us have no problems with her SH height as it is.

 

[shanus]

Doesn't decreasing SH height also reduce the height of ALL jumps? I remember reading that in the code discussion thread, unless you guys found a new modifier that only changes SH height. If it reduces the height on all her jumps, please, leave it the same, as most of us have no problems with her SH height as it is.

No it only effects the SH height.

We have the following modifiers for character specific physics:
Short hop height
Full hop height (which affects the ledgehop too)
Fast Fall speed
Down Gravity
Normal Grav (up & down)

and potentially dash speed or up+b height

 

[noradseven]

I tried the "official codeset" in the topic that almas made (I think it was feb 13th build, but it may have been the 9th), and that specific aspect of her game was fine by me. (it seemed a bit lower than regular brawl). I could quickly set up several SHFF bairs as an approach, much like wolf does in regular brawl.

Like cake said... why is this a question? Lowering it a bit will make her better.

About ZSS in general in Brawl+

Personally I like the was she handles in brawl better, possibly because I am used to it. Her d-smash was nerfed, neutral b was useless, and her jump and up-B occasionally failed to come out in time. The problems with stun are due to the hitlag modifier iirc, and I think the buffer mod may have caused my problems with jumps and up-Bs not coming out like they should. Sure I could do a couple extra combos, but I can get 50% combos in brawl anyways.

I think before you mess around with her SH height, fix the stuns.

Uhh nerfed??? with d-smash you have 0 to death combo's like on everyone or close too it.

Seriously if I had more time I would make Brawl Remix, and just make the game and offensive rush down fest(make movement/attack speed faster than Meltyblood, and Ill be happy), rather than an instant kill combo game.

Yeah I played brawl+ a bit ZSS is really good since she had good hitstun before its absolutely stupid now to the point where you can juggle the opponent with forward u-tilt, walk forward repeat.

 

[Adapt]

ZSS herself has been buffed, but the stuns have been nerfed.