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EVO 2015: Melee or Smash 4?

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zozo

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@ MTL Kyle MTL Kyle First off, I'm not a Brawl fanboy, I'm a SMASH BROS fanboy. I love ALL the games EQUALLY, unlike biased Melee fanboys like yourself. Second, I'm VERY familiar with the FGC, I've been a part of it for 6 years now, so don't lecture on anything FGC related. I'm new to competitive Smash, NOT new to any other fighting game. I'm just sick of elitists like yourself that refuse to evolve and move on. I could see if you didn't like Smash 4 and chose to stick with Melee without flaming the game, but fanboys like yourself love to be obnoxious and love to s**t on anything that isn't Melee, similar to Third Strike, Super Turbo, and MVC2 diehards who s**t on MVC3, and SF4 respectively because they aren't their favorite ancient games. Evolve or stay stuck in 2002, but stop trying to keep everyone else in the stone ages with you. You say that just because League has more players, it doesn't mean that it's more competitive. WHO CARES??? It's got the most players, it's the most popular, AND it gets the most views. That's what EVO lineups are all about, giving the most popular games the views, and Smash 4 will be more popular than Melee.
 
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Renji64

Smash Lord
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I would choose melee. Smash 4 will get it's time to shine when things are actually stable and the game has proved it's self more. It isn't that fun to watch or that fast.
 

MTL Kyle

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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@ MTL Kyle MTL Kyle First off, I'm not a Brawl fanboy, I'm a SMASH BROS fanboy. I love ALL the games EQUALLY

If you had ANY equality in your love for the Smash Bros series, you wouldn't use the image of the apex of controversy as your avatar.

That said, I will stop giving you attention and treat your posts as comedic relief from the others that actually know what they are talking about and that are open to make a progressive discussion here.
 

TunaAndBacon

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@ MTL Kyle MTL Kyle First off, I'm not a Brawl fanboy, I'm a SMASH BROS fanboy. I love ALL the games EQUALLY, unlike biased Melee fanboys like yourself. Second, I'm VERY familiar with the FGC, I've been a part of it for 6 years now, so don't lecture on anything FGC related. I'm new to competitive Smash, NOT new to any other fighting game. I'm just sick of elitists like yourself that refuse to evolve and move on. I could see if you didn't like Smash 4 and chose to stick with Melee without flaming the game, but fanboys like yourself love to be obnoxious and love to s**t on anything that isn't Melee, similar to Third Strike, Super Turbo, and MVC2 diehards who s**t on MVC3, and SF4 respectively because they aren't their favorite ancient games. Evolve or stay stuck in 2002, but stop trying to keep everyone else in the stone ages with you. You say that just because League has more players, it doesn't mean that it's more competitive. WHO CARES??? It's got the most players, it's the most popular, AND it gets the most views. That's what EVO lineups are all about, giving the most popular games the views, and Smash 4 will be more popular than Melee.
It seems like you opened this thread less for discussion and more so to just bash Melee fans.
 

zozo

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If you had ANY equality in your love for the Smash Bros series, you wouldn't use the image of the apex of controversy as your avatar.

That said, I will stop giving you attention and treat your posts as comedic relief from the others that actually know what they are talking about and that are open to make a progressive discussion here.
Are you serious? I can have whatever character as my avatar that I wanna have, it's my avatar. Idgaf what other people think, I love Meta Knight. You're not making a progressive discussion, you want to stay stuck in the stone ages.

@ TunaAndBacon TunaAndBacon First off I didn't open this thread at all, I added my two cents. Secondly, you have terrible reading comprehension if you think that that's why I joined this conversation. You and @ MTL Kyle MTL Kyle are pretty moronic.
 

Sandfox

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Sep 29, 2014
Messages
9
As mentioned before to the other guy, if you don't know ANYTHING about the subject, refrain yourself from talking.

League is more popular because Riot wanted it, but DotA community is really really strong, bringing the biggest prize ever into an e-sports event.

Every League player respects DotA and a lot of them started there and came to League because of the money/more people playing. By no means all this validates League as a superior game or more competitive. (this coming from a League player)
In what world do League players respect Dota players? If anything they have something similar to what we're seeing between Melee and Smash 4 now, but they obviously have less overlap in the community.

Even though the game might be popular because of the novelty and casual appeal, you have to remember that SSF2T had the main stage on EVO and it was insanely hype. Traditional games SHOULD have their spot because they are the foundation of the community.

Also, those companies put money into EVO to have their game there. Nintendo never spent a dime and ****ed us over for a looooong time. Suddenly they see a marketing opportunity and we are taking in the butt because of that ? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLL NO. Melee should stay there because we built all of this and giving the spot to Nintendo would be the ultimate offense to us.
Why should Evo and Nintendo support Melee on the main stage just because its had a dedicated community for so long? Nintendo benefits in no way and it would be dumb to make it seem like Melee is the game pros play when you're trying to sell a new product and its not like Melee has a chance of growth from exposure like Smash 4. Evo would more than likely get more entrants and viewers from a Smash 4 stream, without having to get equipment just for Melee, and someone would probably do something for Melee on the side if there's only one Smash spot.

Traditional games always have place in the community, but showcasing newer games allows for the scene to grow due to looker better, and the potential for greater popularity in the modern FGC.
 

KayB

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@ MTL Kyle MTL Kyle First off, I'm not a Brawl fanboy, I'm a SMASH BROS fanboy. I love ALL the games EQUALLY, unlike biased Melee fanboys like yourself.
Damn, people like different games! I guess by preferring Melee over Brawl and not loving all games equally I'm automatically a bigot!

Nothing wrong with not liking all games equally, so I'd prefer you not use that as an insult or if its somehow wrong.
 

Banjodorf

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Smash 4 is going to be the answer. Especially if Nintendo is sponsoring EVO again this year, which they will.

It's a one-sided discussion if we're talking about EVO 2015. Probably even EVO 2016.

I'm just glad I enjoy watching Smash 4 matches; watching Brawl matches was never much fun, so it being at EVO 2008 was dull.
 

OracleFish

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I'd love to see Sm4sh. Watching a lot of the streams lately, I rather enjoy watching it. It's a breath of fresh air.

Don't get me wrong - I love Melee to death, but Sm4sh is more accessible to people like myself attempting to enter the competitive scene for the first time, so I'd love to see it get some support.
 
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Archimedes

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I really would like to see both, Melee is still crazy fun to watch, but I do wanna see Smash 4 more.
 

zozo

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Nothing wrong with not liking all games equally, so I'd prefer you not use that as an insult or if its somehow wrong.
Wat. Do you lack proper reading comprehension skills as well? I never said there was anything wrong with it, and I never used it as an insult. HE insulted ME by calling assuming I'm a Brawl fanboy and called me a Brawltard. Why are you not calling him out when he actually insulted me? I didn't say anything insulting at all. Are all Melee fanboys completely biased and hypocritical, or is it just you guys?
 
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9Blades

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I think we should give Smash 4 a chance to see how it does at such a high level. It's worth giving the game a shot to see if it really can be a good competitive game. From watching some Japanese tournaments of it, there really is some potential here.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Do me a favour and read every single word of this article http://www.meleeitonme.com/on-the-future-and-the-repeat-of-history/
Bassically Smash4 plays like Brawl, defensively. A defensive game is not a good fighting game
You're basing it on 1 players opinion, granted Praxis knows his stuff but I still think a lot of the things in that article are either blown out of proportion or aren't really putting things in context of what is actually going on.

Overall the game is more aggressive than Brawl and rewards offensive play far more. Low shield stun still doesn't work when characters still have moves safe on block even with the low shield stun, same in Brawl for that matter. Only now there is more reward for it.

Time wise, sets are ending around 3 minutes on average with 2 stocks with players who know what they are doing. People might live long, but the sets time wise are still staying far shorter than Brawl. This game has a far more varied cast than Melee does, even more so when custom movesets are thrown in.

This game is not as defensive as Brawl, sets are not as long, canceling out of not hitstun is 99% of the time people just acts as fast as they can, aka Mario doing UpB out of a Combo like Peach doing Nair to combo break in Melee.

Give it time, people are jumping the gun on a lot of the conclusions on both sides but I can firmly say this game is not as defensive as Brawl or holds the issues that made it that way. Not at all.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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I want to see both games at Evo! I think both games are necessary because it would allow a reigning champ or new champion to emerge in Melee, give Smash 4 the opportunity to be showcased to a large audience and also help develop the metagame as well as bring out new blood to the smash scene. It's a win=win with both games.
 

ToadsterOven

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Definitely Smash 4 as it's looking to be a lot more competitive than Brawl was in the long run. That said, some people in the melee/PM communities are bad seeds if not outright cancerous to the smash bros community(Leffen anybody?) as a whole though the other communities do have their fair share of bad seeds as well. Also many Melee/PM fans are at least willing to give 3DS/Wii U a shot for the next few months/year. That I feel speaks volumes about how resistant to change the Melee community isn't. Now if some of these players end up going back to Melee/PM, their loss. The huge influx of new players 4 will be getting anyway in the coming months/year alone will more than make up for it.

However with that said, if some of these same players start using their preference in smash bros game as an excuse to ignorantly bash/insult/flamebait the Smash 4 community, that sort of behavior cannot and WILL NOT be tolerated! It was bad enough that the Brawl era left a gigantic rift in the community the size of the Great Canyon complete with certain Melee players who will remain nameless that went out of their way to make Brawl players feel stupid for not liking a game that's "obviously better than that casual crap you play" and make the game as a whole look uninteresting on purpose by camping/stalling out matches and then try to use that as "proof" of their biased convictions later on resulting in an even stronger Brawl community who justifiably wanted and still don't want anything to do at all with the game who's fanbase mercilessly bullied them just because their taste in games was different.

Long story short, we don't need another humongous, childish, and very petty like schism in the smash bros community. Project M I feel helped improve relations between the Melee and Brawl crowds a bit though that game itself has been rife with controversy between the two groups. (Some Melee players have still stuck to Melee which is fine, yet some of them also bashed on PM for a multitude of reasons ranging from reasonable to asinine the latter of which is not fine. Some Brawl players likewise have whined about PM for being a sped up more balanced version of Brawl and feel its somehow an insult to their community

I don't think anybody who was around for the Melee VS Brawl wars wants to relive all that drama with Melee/PM VS Smash 4 which unfortunately I've already seen a bit of here and there and 4 hasn't even been out a month yet not to mention the Wii U version still doesn't have an officially confirmed release date yet. (though many speculate around Black Friday as a potential release date). As I previously mentioned, only some Melee/PM fans in their respective communities are bad seeds and the other communities are more or less the same in that regard, but it was mostly the Melee community who started the lion's share drama/flame wars back during the Brawl era. Ignoring any bad seeds from the Brawl community who intentionally started **** with the Melee community, the Brawl community might not have been any better for lashing out at the Melee community for acting like jerks towards them, but can you blame them for it? Its like a kid who always gets bullied at school finally making the bully(ies) feel terrible about himself rather than the other way around, yet the former is the one who always gets in the most trouble even though he had a justifiable reason for fighting back against said tormentor.

With PM's wild success with the community, we've been seeing an influx of new players and the return of a few oldies too! That is a great thing for the community. However, I think we can all agree it hasn't been all sunshine and roses as PM has unintentionally resurrected Melee VS Brawl flame wars of old and with Melee's recent revival in the competitive scene from small grassroot events to the likes of MLG/EVO, the wounds from both sides has only been made worse and 4 is sadly feeling the effects of the Melee VS Brawl schism. I honestly can't seem to go ANYWHERE on the internet where smash bros is being discussed and not run across that one guy who's into Melee/PM complete with a "holier than thou" attitude/ego that takes time out of his day to flamebait Brawl and even 3DS/Wii fans by making a rash tactless comment about how much better Melee/PM is and how 4 will supposedly crash and burn not too long after release or just a generally nasty comment that serves no purpose other than get people riled up enough to reply (i.e a troll comment if you will)

Its fine if you think Melee/PM is great. Its fine if 4 isn't looking to be your cup of tea, we won't miss you one bit I promise! Its NOT fine if you intentionally bait people by typing a crap/unpopular opinion you know for a fact is going to get mass hate from more logical and sensible denizens of the internet. Keep those type of opinions to yourself as all it does is start drama and in places with a moderator team give them a headache as they have to take time out of their otherwise enjoyable day by handing out warning/infractions more often than not to the same type of people over and over again. Smash 4 is without a shadow of a doubt going to be the main smash bros event at next years EVO/MLG as it would look very bad from a business standpoint if Melee continued to hog all the attention or even so much as co-exist with 4 at the highest levels of play (smaller grassroot events like Apex would be fine however as not as many people know about those and mass amounts of money is usually not at stake). Nintendo was generous enough to let Melee be streamed at EVO 2013 and support it at this years EVO, but with 4 being their latest entry in the series, they are going to push it as much as possible to be the main competitive game. That is fine as the big N is a business. It would be weird if they didn't.

Like it or not, Melee will probably NOT be the main event at next years EVO/MLG nor will it likely be able to co-exist with 4 at said high level tournaments with lots of viewership as it would unfair to overshadow 4 this early into it's competitive run and thus unintentionally prove the stereotype about the Melee community being stuck in their ways and hissing at the mere thought of adapting to a new game true. Should Nintendo declare/confirm that 3DS/Wii U will be the only smash bros game featured at EVO 2015, that is first and foremost their decision to make, NOT YOURS or ANY OF US'S decision. Melee has proven it will never die no matter what and still being played at smaller and/or tournaments run by the community is all we can ask for. All I and many other people ask for in return is that most if not all of us can be amicable and supportive towards 4 and its own competitive scene and not resort to being complete assholes just because of whatever childish/stupid reason you come up with for being that way towards 4 and its fan base.

Remember, a schism like the one Brawl left in its wake that some of the Melee community only made worse with their words and actions is never healthy for a community and so help me god if another one gets started courtesy of some of the more bitter "fans" of Melee/PM and proceeds to spiral out of control just as bad as Melee VS Brawl if not worse, my suggestion would be to punish the entire communities for Melee and Project M by forbidding those two games at the higher level tournaments which would hit them exactly where it hurts! At least until said communities purged themselves of all the truly bad seeds who started and continued to be unsportsmanlike towards 4. It wouldn't be a popular move yes, but if that's what it takes to get the entire community to grow the hell up and learn to appreciate 4 even if its not their choice of competitive game, then so be it!

That is my two cents on this thread and the future of the smash bros community. Again, If some of the Melee/PM fans aren't on board with 3DS/Wii U, that's fine so long as they don't go starting **** with us like some of the same people in the Melee community did with Brawl back in the day. We as a community are (hopefully) wiser now than we were a few years back and if 4 is to make a name for itself minus all the drama/controversy Brawl had to put with during its run, we need to let smash 4 detractors who repeatedly start drama for the lulz know the rules of being a good sport and the subsequent consequences that shall follow if said rules are repeatedly violated.
 

MTL Kyle

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In what world do League players respect Dota players?
In the world of high elo, where people understand about the game and have played a lot of games at a high level competitively.


Why should Evo and Nintendo support Melee on the main stage just because its had a dedicated community for so long?
Because Smash in the lineup not because of Nintendo, but because the community wanted to.
Next year Nintendo uses us as publicity and after that, "hostile takeover! gtfo Melee! i never liked you anyway".

We built the hype, we got the viewership, we sent the TVs to EVO and brought the Cubes. This is our spot. If we let Nintendo make a Smash4 exclusive event, all the hard work we've been doing so far will go to the garbage.


Wat. Do you lack proper reading comprehension skills as well??
Gosh, I can feel your neckbeard growing.

We get it, we have our opinion you have yours. I'm not trying to change your mind, while you are trying to change mine.


Get over it lol
 
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Okay, if I am watching some event there are only two reasons why I am watching. Personal motivation or seeking to see something good to watch.

I hate watching football because I do not care to watch it. However, I care to watch say tennis or archery because I actually do those things. Or say a friend of mine is playing in a band and I want to go support them and such.

If I watch a speed run of a game I watch it for entertainment value and I want to see someone break a game I have either played before or not played before. I do not want to watch a person fail at speed running a game.

This is my impression of melee versus smash4 at Evo. First off, melee has a well established ruleset and player skill base. Smash4 being on the 3DS for a few months I do not believe to be completely indicative of how WiiU will turn out. There are already stages we know will be on the 3DS which are not for the WiiU. Plus, I keep remembering how Brawl turned out with out having a good ruleset in place along with how new the metagame was at the time.

Compare Brawl at Evo to say a tournament almost a year later and its quite the difference. I would prefer a brand new game not get entertained into Evo since its a representation to others about what the game is like. It is my expectation that Smash4 at Evo 2015 would be poor to watch than compared to Evo 2016. Plus, having the game a year later would keep the motivation for playing the game longer than right after its release.

In the end, I am just worried that something like smash4 would turn out like brawl at evo 08. Having started out with Brawl I did not know about Evo 08 until like a year later. I recall going back to watch the grand finals match in it. Ugh. Items and people playing like Ugh.
 
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KayB

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Wat. Do you lack proper reading comprehension skills as well? I never said there was anything wrong with it, and I never used it as an insult.
zozo said:
First off, I'm not a Brawl fanboy, I'm a SMASH BROS fanboy. I love ALL the games EQUALLY, unlike biased Melee fanboys like yourself.
Why are you not calling him out when he actually insulted me? I didn't say anything insulting at all. Are all Melee fanboys completely biased and hypocritical, or is it just you guys?
Because you had already done it and I didn't think I needed to help you. I told you off because you were being hypocritical. What the hell is wrong with you? Can't you at least try to have a decent conversation with someone without labeling them as some kind of fanboy? And don't give me bull**** like "I tried to be nice."
THIS is how you started responding to people:
The fact that you're stating your OPINION as fact just like every Melee diehard totally discredits your entire comment. NOBODY can say that Melee is better competitvely than a game that ISN'T EVEN OUT IN THE STATES YET, and HASN'T EVEN BEEN FULLY EXPLORED IN THE SLIGHTEST. Not every Smash game has to have wavedashing and character slidiing and jumping all over the screen at a lightning fast pace. Smash 4 is perfect because it's a happy medium between Melee and Brawl. I really dislike Melee fanboys like you that immediately write off a new Smash game before the thing even comes out. Plus you completely ignored every valid point in my comment and zeroed in on why Melee should be at EVO even though it's a 12 year old game. If Smash 4 is more popular (which it will be) than Melee, then that alone makes it deserving of the EVO spot. Same reason why Ultra Street Fighter 4 deserves the spot over SF 3rd Strike, Tekken Tag 2 over Tekken 6, UMVC3 over MVC2, etc.
Granted, the person who you quoted first in this entire thread wasn't being rational, but not once in this entire thread did you try to be nice and talk things out, not with him nor with me.

Newsflash: I don't like Brawl, and I probably never will. That doesn't change the fact that I have incredible amounts of respect for the Brawl community, because they have tried their damn hardest to support their own game. That doesn't change the fact that I vastly prefer Melee over Brawl, but Brawl's metagame and community is something I respect.

Now if you can crawl out of your little cave of hypocrisy, I'd ask you to lay off your black and white lenses, chill out, and actually try to converse with me like an actual human being instead of deriding this entire thread into some ****ty youtube conversation.

My personal opinion? I'd like to Melee at EVO 2015, because not only do I get an adrenaline rush from seeing the fast pace gameplay, I also get to see the rivalries take shape again in such a huge tournament. Unlike new games, Melee has already established this sort of hierarchy, which on one hand reinforces these rivalries into exciting grudge matches, or we can see a completely unexpected newcomer. While its entirely possible that a set of players can establish reign early on, I just don't see myself seeing much upsets or rivalries, because even by the time EVO comes, I still think we'll be discovering the game and who's good and who isn't. It's not as hype to me, because we don't know who's good and who isn't, compared to say, the five gods of Melee. And not only does this event only happen once per year and Melee is missing that chance for hype, we might not ever see Melee again on the main stage.

That's why I'd rather see Melee. To me, the game matters, but I also believe the community and the players themselves add to the hype, and I just don't think that Smash 4 will be as established as either Brawl or Melee or even PM when EVO 2015 comes around.
 
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Accelerator

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Melee will be the main event because Sm4sh is not going to beat it in entrants. What gets decided as side events and main events at EVO is entrant numbers. If Sm4sh has 300-400 entrants, and Melee has 700+, what do you think is going to run as the main event?

Besides that, how many people own a WiiU? People keep talking about how accessible it is, but a WiiU, HDTV, game, adapter, and controller are not cheap. I can get a Melee setup for 50-60 bucks. Even cheaper in some cases. Compare that to WiiU.
 

KayB

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Besides that, how many people own a WiiU? People keep talking about how accessible it is, but a WiiU, HDTV, game, adapter, and controller are not cheap. I can get a Melee setup for 50-60 bucks. Even cheaper in some cases. Compare that to WiiU.
That's a good point, but Mr. Wizard is a genius and he'll figure something out. Plus I'm sure the smash community will be more than willing to help out.
 

Accelerator

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That's a good point, but Mr. Wizard is a genius and he'll figure something out. Plus I'm sure the smash community will be more than willing to help out.
It's not a problem of setups for EVO. If Nintendo is sponsoring them, they will get setups. My point was about how many people will be playing this game competitively. If you want to get into it, it's going to cost you a pretty penny as opposed to the other games.
 

KayB

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It's not a problem of setups for EVO. If Nintendo is sponsoring them, they will get setups. My point was about how many people will be playing this game competitively. If you want to get into it, it's going to cost you a pretty penny as opposed to the other games.
I'm sure number of players won't be a concern.
 

Zaprong

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Being completely honest, Melee is great competitively, but now that Smash 4 is something new, we should give it a try, we still don't know if it really plays like brawl or if it isn't fun to watch (e.g. of a fun-to-watch match is when this japanese tourney happened and the finals were Greninja vs Pacman, it was so intense with so much stuff happening, I got the feel it was as fun to watch as melee [Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_EClaO7Sg ]), Besides, we have 9 months for people to practice and get more matches like the example I gave, it's not (officially) released yet worldwide and the Wii U version is still in development, which could bring a new mechanic or two with it, along with patches.... I guess this could potentially be as good as melee competitively with more character viability IMO
 
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Sandfox

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Sep 29, 2014
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Because Smash in the lineup not because of Nintendo, but because the community wanted to.
Next year Nintendo uses us as publicity and after that, "hostile takeover! gtfo Melee! i never liked you anyway".

We built the hype, we got the viewership, we sent the TVs to EVO and brought the Cubes. This is our spot. If we let Nintendo make a Smash4 exclusive event, all the hard work we've been doing so far will go to the garbage.
So getting Melee featured at Evo two years, somewhat revitalizing the scene, and getting Nintendo to pay more attention to the competitive side of Smash is garbage now? Melee fans aren't entitled anything and Nintendo will obviously choose to support the new game over the one that does nothing for them. If Evo decided to stop hosting Smash titles would you complain and claim ownership of that spot?

Okay, if I am watching some event there are only two reasons why I am watching. Personal motivation or seeking to see something good to watch.

I hate watching football because I do not care to watch it. However, I care to watch say tennis or archery because I actually do those things. Or say a friend of mine is playing in a band and I want to go support them and such.

If I watch a speed run of a game I watch it for entertainment value and I want to see someone break a game I have either played before or not played before. I do not want to watch a person fail at speed running a game.

This is my impression of melee versus smash4 at Evo. First off, melee has a well established ruleset and player skill base. Smash4 being on the 3DS for a few months I do not believe to be completely indicative of how WiiU will turn out. There are already stages we know will be on the 3DS which are not for the WiiU. Plus, I keep remembering how Brawl turned out with out having a good ruleset in place along with how new the metagame was at the time.

Compare Brawl at Evo to say a tournament almost a year later and its quite the difference. I would prefer a brand new game not get entertained into Evo since its a representation to others about what the game is like. It is my expectation that Smash4 at Evo 2015 would be poor to watch than compared to Evo 2016. Plus, having the game a year later would keep the motivation for playing the game longer than right after its release.

In the end, I am just worried that something like smash4 would turn out like brawl at evo 08. Having started out with Brawl I did not know about Evo 08 until like a year later. I recall going back to watch the grand finals match in it. Ugh. Items and people playing like Ugh.
By the time Evo comes around Smash 4 will probably be 8 months old and games of that age get featured all the time. By then people will have figured out their characters and enough tournaments will have passed to have a ruleset.
 
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victinivcreate1

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Melee

I have played Smash 4 a bunch (not the demo, but the full game) and its not campy, but its still very neutral game heavy. Getting a hit in Smash 4 offers some reward, but IMO its not enough. You can still camp to a good degree in Smash 4 and be successful. Also the thing about Melee is that Melee is "finished" in the sense that pretty much every trick has been found explored and exposed. So there really are no gimmicks in Melee that are left. 8 months is not enough time to find all the "so called unbeatable techiques" so we may have some random player cheese his way through evo into winning.
 

MTL Kyle

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So getting Melee featured at Evo two years, somewhat revitalizing the scene, and getting Nintendo to pay more attention to the competitive side of Smash is garbage now?
Yes ?!

For years Nintendo tried to shut down the competitive scene and shove down our throat their new toys. Even at EVO, if you remember correctly, they tried to cockblock us.

At this point WE DON'T NEED NINTENDO FOR ANYTHING.


If Evo decided to stop hosting Smash titles would you complain and claim ownership of that spot?
If they stop hosting Smash titles at all, they must have their reasoning behind it. If they stop Melee because Nintendo wants to feature Sm4sh only, yes, I would complain a lot. This is wrong and you shouldn't accept this. Smash at EVO exists again because of the community, not because of Nintendo.

By the time Evo comes around Smash 4 will probably be 8 months old and games of that age get featured all the time. By then people will have figured out their characters and enough tournaments will have passed to have a ruleset
Are you seriously considering an EVO spot for a handheld game ?
Smash4 WiiU isn't even out and things are probably going to change as soon we get the ability to play the game with real controllers.
The fact that we don't know all the stages for Wii U (because they are going to be different, according to Sakurai) is a big no for Smash4 in EVO 2015.
 

MTL Kyle

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In what world do League players respect Dota players?
In the world of high elo, where people understand about the game.


Why should Evo and Nintendo support Melee on the main stage just because its had a dedicated community for so long?
Because Smash is in the lineup not because of Nintendo, but because the community wanted to. Nintendo usually features a game for 2 years and then drop it, because they hate competitive gaming.

And then, out of nowhere Nintendo uses us as publicity and after that, "hostile takeover! gtfo Melee! i never liked you anyway".

We built the hype, we got the viewership, we sent the TVs to EVO and brought the Cubes. This is our spot and Nintendo has nothing to do with it.
 

Jawnsunn

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Even at EVO, if you remember correctly, they tried to cockblock us.
IMO I don't think we should write off Nintendo, they're doing all they can to appeal to the competitive community recently, with E3 Invitationals and GS Tournaments to start.
 

MTL Kyle

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IMO I don't think we should write off Nintendo, they're doing all they can to appeal to the competitive community recently, with E3 Invitationals and GS Tournaments to start.
You mean PR attemp #1 and #2 ?

Even though I want huge distance from Nintendo, I don't think we should write them off, after all they are "trying. But if Smash 4 over Melee at EVO happens, I'm already ready to complain about it.
 

Sandfox

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Nintendo didn't "cockblock" Smash from Evo when you consider what actually happened.

You mean PR attemp #1 and #2 ?

Even though I want huge distance from Nintendo, I don't think we should write them off, after all they are "trying. But if Smash 4 over Melee at EVO happens, I'm already ready to complain about it.
I really doubt Nintendo is just going to tell them not to show Melee. If anything Melee getting dropped would be because of Evo themselves not wanting to feature two Smash games over a Capcom fighting and picking Smash 4.
Are you seriously considering an EVO spot for a handheld game ?
Smash4 WiiU isn't even out and things are probably going to change as soon we get the ability to play the game with real controllers.
The fact that we don't know all the stages for Wii U (because they are going to be different, according to Sakurai) is a big no for Smash4 in EVO 2015.
Assuming Smash 4 Wii U comes out in November then there will be 7-8 months before Evo to learn the game. I don't really see what not knowing the stages now has to do with the competitive level of the game in July.

Melee

I have played Smash 4 a bunch (not the demo, but the full game) and its not campy, but its still very neutral game heavy. Getting a hit in Smash 4 offers some reward, but IMO its not enough. You can still camp to a good degree in Smash 4 and be successful. Also the thing about Melee is that Melee is "finished" in the sense that pretty much every trick has been found explored and exposed. So there really are no gimmicks in Melee that are left. 8 months is not enough time to find all the "so called unbeatable techiques" so we may have some random player cheese his way through evo into winning.
The game doesn't need to be fully tapped before its good enough to be run at major tournaments.
 

aethermaster

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As much as I enjoy watching Melee still (and preferably would want both games to be at EVO) I'd like to see how smash 4 will stack up and what kind of audience it'll bring. Also seeing only :falcomelee::foxmelee::peachmelee::sheikmelee::icsmelee::marthmelee::jigglypuffmelee: all the time gets a little dull when we could have :4diddy::4duckhunt::4falco::4fox::4palutena::4zss::4littlemac::4jigglypuff::4gaw::4falcon::4ness::4greninja::4robinm::4villager::4shulk::4bowserjr::4marth::4pit::4lucario::4metaknight::4sheik: and maybe more as the game develops.
 

DakotaBonez

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I wanna see more Yoshi at EVO. Last EVO had some insane Yoshi players, I think everyone was surprised to see the stuff they were pullin off, imagine what they could do after a year of practice.

Its gonna be awhile before Smash 4 reaches that level,but nonetheless we all wanna know who's the undisputed champ of smash 4.
 
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KayB

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As much as I enjoy watching Melee still (and preferably would want both games to be at EVO) I'd like to see how smash 4 will stack up and what kind of audience it'll bring. Also seeing only :falcomelee::foxmelee::peachmelee::sheikmelee::icsmelee::marthmelee::jigglypuffmelee: all the time gets a little dull when we could have :4diddy::4duckhunt::4falco::4fox::4palutena::4zss::4littlemac::4jigglypuff::4gaw::4falcon::4ness::4greninja::4robinm::4villager::4shulk::4bowserjr::4marth::4pit::4lucario::4metaknight::4sheik: and maybe more as the game develops.
Having experience, any game will have its few top characters that you see a lot. There is no game aside from maybe UMVC3 where the majority of the cast gets chosen. At best, you'll see seven characters (if the metagame gets lucky). It's incredibly unlikely that the whole cast will be equally balanced. Already, we see bias going in favor towards characters like Little Mac, DHD, Sheik, and occasionally ZSS and Bowser.

My point is, don't get your hopes up, and I wouldn't necessarily use that logic when the time comes around. You do have a point though.
 

TunaAndBacon

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Evo has both Street fighter 4 and Third strike, so Melee and Smash 4 doesn't seem to far off.

But if it had to be one, its going to be Melee.

Faster gameplay = More fun to spectate
 

MTL Kyle

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Also seeing only :falcomelee::foxmelee::peachmelee::sheikmelee::icsmelee::marthmelee::jigglypuffmelee: all the time gets a little dull
I think from all Smash, Melee is the one who has the biggest variety of characters in top 8. lol

There is no game aside from maybe UMVC3 where the majority of the cast gets chosen.
In nowadays meta, you have more variety. Before it was just a spam of Zero May Cry.


Nintendo didn't "cockblock" Smash from Evo when you consider what actually happened.
I think it's pretty much what happened.

I really doubt Nintendo is just going to tell them not to show Melee. If anything Melee getting dropped would be because of Evo themselves not wanting to feature two Smash games over a Capcom fighting and picking Smash 4.
And again, Nintendo scores another point in their ~melee destruction agenda~ while having their PR intact.

Assuming Smash 4 Wii U comes out in November then there will be 7-8 months before Evo to learn the game. I don't really see what not knowing the stages now has to do with the competitive level of the game in July.
It means we can't build a decent ruleset. PM 3.0 is 7~8 months and doesn't have a stable ruleset yet.

The game doesn't need to be fully tapped before its good enough to be run at major tournaments.
We don't want EVO to be a poor experience.
 
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zozo

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There is no game aside from maybe UMVC3 where the majority of the cast gets chosen. At best, you'll see seven characters (if the metagame gets lucky)..
Actually that's incorrect. In high level UMVC3 you see different combinations of the same teams all the time in top 8s. Vergil, Doom, Magneto, Morrigan, Wolverine, Strider, Viper, Zero, Dante. Usually different combos of those teams. Occasionally you might see a player with a lower tier team, but it's rare. The majority of the cast is definitely not used. I know, I play the game. USF4 has much more character variety in high level play, because almost every character in that game is viable, which is nod to good balance. Melee is not balanced, which is why there's nothing but Foxes, Falcos, and Falcons on stream. I literally watched a doubles match the other day that had 3 foxes on the screen, and one Luigi. Melee is heavily unbalanced. I dunno what games you play, but most games have more than 7 characters in high level play unless they're horribly balanced games like 3rd Strike, MVC2, Melee, CVS2, etc. Smash 4 is way too young to be naming top tiers yet. It might turn out in the future that a lot of characters might be viable. I'm hoping that that's what happens.

@ TunaAndBacon TunaAndBacon 3rd Strike is a side tournament at EVO. Melee should be a side tournament as well.
 
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