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Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

Rie Sonomura

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God, super switch sounds so much better (and cooler) than “switch pro”. For real I’m SO tired of this name.
Nintendo has an affinity for the word “Super” too. Super Mario, Super Smash Bros...

plus the latter would confuse anyone looking for a Switch Pro Controller...
 

Calamitas

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At any rate, I still think that chances for another character originating from a RPG aren't too bad for one of the two remaining fighters. I don't think Lloyd's getting upgraded, and the Mii costume is the only one that has yet to return, so that's something.
 

RebelMaren

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You know with the so called super switch rumors

what if they’re making Ult DX for the super switch with vanilla ult’s dlc on cart and any future dlc will be on super switch?

idk I’m kinda spitballing here
Well now you've gone and done it Rie...

I've actually had a theory about a new version of Smash Ultimate happening in the future but not really wanted to bring it up cause I think people might see it as 'too optimistic'. I'll need time but maybe at some point this weekend I'll write up some stuff here about what I'm thinking about.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Well now you've gone and done it Rie...

I've actually had a theory about a new version of Smash Ultimate happening in the future but not really wanted to bring it up cause I think people might see it as 'too optimistic'. I'll need time but maybe at some point this weekend I'll write up some stuff here about what I'm thinking about.
I’d like to read it

I have some... theories too
 

SilverSoul24

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Well now you've gone and done it Rie...

I've actually had a theory about a new version of Smash Ultimate happening in the future but not really wanted to bring it up cause I think people might see it as 'too optimistic'. I'll need time but maybe at some point this weekend I'll write up some stuff here about what I'm thinking about.
If it's not called Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Ultimate Edition & Knuckles I don't want it.
 

SilverSoul24

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*Featuring Dante From The Devil May Cry Series

how could you forget that :secretkpop:
Ahh you're right how could I?! I'm actually lowkey still hoping for Dante too so all the better. Real talk though, I think a rerelease of Ultimate with the DLC on-cart with some extra goodies makes a lot of sense, especially if a new Switch model is indeed coming. It would be an easy thing to market to new system adopters.
 

Rie Sonomura

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There are also those two mystery announcements we don’t know about, and the datamine. Let’s keep an eye out for what that all entails
 

PSIGuy

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The mystery announcements were more "own a game? get free spirits!" promos for Ghosts and Goblins, and Persona 5 Strikers.

Xenoblade X doesn't exist. It never happened. There have only ever been two Xenoblade games.
 

Staarih

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The mystery announcements were more "own a game? get free spirits!" promos for Ghosts and Goblins, and Persona 5 Strikers.

Xenoblade X doesn't exist. It never happened. There have only ever been two Xenoblade games.
Yeah, it's a bummer how overlooked the game is.

though here I am still hoping it gets the attention it deserves should a port of it come to the Switch. And maybe a spirit event in Ultimate alongside it.
 
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SilverSoul24

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Yeah, it's a bummer how overlooked the game is.

though here I am still hoping it gets the attention it deserves should a port of it come to the Switch. And maybe a spirit event in Ultimate alongside it.
That's about all we can hope for at this point. Maybe, just maybe, X is being consistently ignored because a Switch port is in the works and Nintendo wants to highlight it properly. If they're going to go to the trouble of rereleasing X, they might as well wait to talk about it to drum up hype once people know they can spend money on it. Still, it would have been nice to get a new Mii costume, spirit, or anything X-related along with Pyra/Mythra. I'd even take a song or two, which almost feels odd to say considering I'm far from the biggest fan of X's soundtrack. I just really hope X doesn't end up being the one Wii U title that never got a port by the end of the Switch's life cycle, because it really deserves a chance to succeed on a relevant console.
 

Rie Sonomura

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11F0E8C9-5806-4821-86E7-0FE32D1423CC.png

Credit to epicmartin7 epicmartin7
claims two more presentations left
adds two air attack param slots
🤔

I mean like if this was the end... wouldn’t you like subtract 8 placeholders? Idk maybe I’m not understanding right but it sure feels like something ain’t adding up (pun unintended)
 

Altais

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Overall, I really like the way Pyra/Mythra plays. Though I honestly think Rex would have had a more diverse moveset, due to the many Blades at his disposal, in the end it's nice to see more Xenoblade characters.

I could see Elma having a similar down-special to Pyra/Mythra, where she changes her moveset. One moveset could focus on her dual blades, while the other could focus on her dual guns. In mine Elma moveset, her normal and special attacks were a mix of both--but I could see her switching between the two. This would do an excellent job in reflecting the gameplay of Xenoblade X.
 

epicmartin7

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View attachment 306025
Credit to epicmartin7 epicmartin7

🤔

I mean like if this was the end... wouldn’t you like subtract 8 placeholders? Idk maybe I’m not understanding right but it sure feels like something ain’t adding up (pun unintended)
I wouldn't look too much into it imo. Only because this file has always had a weird file revision history. And not only that, the CSS still only supports up to 91 spots (including Random). Even in 11.0.0. So the game wouldn't be able to support beyond 4 more after Vol. 2 is done.
 
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RebelMaren

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I said earlier in the thread that I wanted to share some thoughts I'd had about a possible future version of Smash Ultimate beyond season 2 and I'll do so below in a spoiler tag, I don't want to take up too much space on the thread but I'd love it if some of you gave your opinions on how possible/far fetched my thinking is. It'll become relevant eventually why Elma's thread is a suitable place for this. I don't plan on putting any major game spoilers below, so don't worry about that.

And a disclaimer; I don't want to appear ungrateful for all that the team has done on Ultimate, I adore the game. The following is something I think is possible but not definite. It's something I want, but I do not feel entitled to it. If season 2 is the endgame, I can appreciate that. THIS IS ENTIRELY SPECULATION.

So the bulk of my theory is that Smash Ultimate might get an expansion with a story mode as its focus. At the end of the final Smash direct before the game launched, Sakurai showed off the intro cutscene for World of Light, which is the story mode included within the spirits mode in SSBU, the opening cutscene surprised due to how dramatic it was, and because it was voice acted. Fox, Zelda, Marth and Pit all speak in this intro. Overall, however the story doesn't actually ever feature any more voice acting. interestingly, all 4 of those characters are only voiced in game in English and Japanese. Outside of this cutscene only a few characters are voiced in any other language.

I considered that, if we were to get a story mode featuring voice acting, the story itself might focus on characters who can be portrayed in speaking roles both in English and Japanese, such as the aforementioned 4. This is when I started to notice a pattern in the DLC characters. Plant can't talk at all, Joker and Byleth speak the occasional line outside of story scenes, but tend to remain silent, Banjo and Kazooie make animal noises, the Heroes as far as I can tell never talk at all, Terry is... Terry, Min Min speaks Chinese, Steve is silent and Sephiroth speaks only Japanese. Pyra and Mythra were the 1st characters added who could feasibly play a major role in the game's cutscenes. While they break the pattern, there's a reason why them specifically being the ones to do so might be quite interesting which I'll get back to later. Even considering the new characters at launch, only Ken and maybe the Belmonts would make sense in talking roles. It's not so much about whether a character CAN talk, but rather if they are depicted talking enough to hold a conversation. Imagine the difference between Mario and Sonic.

If there was to be a story expansion to Smash, perhaps then, characters who could participate in the narrative and make for exciting reveals during the plot might actually be saved for that, whilst characters who would be expected to stand in the background of scenes and make gestures would find their way into the pass. It'd also be a great opportunity for characters who don't fit the pass format well to make it in. Maybe they don't need a new stage, or a ton of music, or even that they are an Echo fighter. Among the newcomers at launch, only Inkling and Simon had enough content to make up a Fighter Pack (albeit with extras like assist trophies and an echo fighter).

Presumably, a story mode would bring with it more bosses to fight. Currently, the vast majority of Classic mode routes, use Master Hand as their boss, with other bosses being featured on between 2 to 7 routes, perhaps more bosses are planned to replace some of the Classic routes that use M Hand and more importantly, once we have all of them, we get a proper Boss Rush mode. Honestly, it seems strange to me that you can't just boot up the game, choose a character and enjoy fighting any boss in the game immediately, without having to complete a platforming stage and using spirits.

Ok, the elephant in the room... how could the possibly do all this, and Ultimate, and 2 seasons. I'll be referencing this sakurai column from 2007, translated by Source Gaming... bear with me here.


Sakurai suggests that the original concept for Subspace Emissary is that an entirely different team would handle it, as if it was a different production. So one team on the core Smash game, and another on Subspace. Ultimately they didn't find a team they could trust so SSE was handled in house, with the cutscenes outsourced.

I think there's a chance that they could revisit this concept in the modern era, splitting what is essentially to productions into a game and it's DLC model (and potentially a re-release down the line). But in order to do so, they would need to find a developer who they could trust to handle such a huge task... Ok, hold on to your butts...

  • Preferably, they would need to have worked on Smash before, or some other Crossover game
  • They would need experience at making levels and writing story
  • They would need to have a good working relationship with Nintendo, Sakurai and Namco
  • They would need to be capable of working in an assist role with another developer
  • They would need to be able to animate in the Smash Ultimate engine

I have someone in mind, Monolith Soft.

They co-developed Smash Brawl and developed the Project X Zone games for Namco. They're highly regarded for their writing and level building skills. They are owned by Nintendo, formally by Namco and have worked with Sakurai before. They assisted on other Nintendo titles such as Zelda, Animal Crossing and Splatoon. They wrote and animated the Pyra/Mythra trailer, the first not written by Sakurai.

In the Pyra/Mythra presentation, Sakurai mentions there was trial and error designing Mythra's costume for Ultimate, but we saw that finalized back in 2018 when it appeared as DLC in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. It seems to me that Monolith Soft have been working with Sakurai in some form for quite some time before this fighter's launch, and that he trusts them with handling cinematics for the series. So why not save Pyra/Mythra for the story mode? Well, perhaps some other Monolith Soft characters are planned for that instead.

I've been thinking about some of this stuff for years so theres probably little thoughts I've had here or there that I've missed, but I just want to hear some opinions from the thread, as Smash fans and as Monolith fans, is this something you think is even possible, would you want this sort of expansion?
 

Rie Sonomura

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I said earlier in the thread that I wanted to share some thoughts I'd had about a possible future version of Smash Ultimate beyond season 2 and I'll do so below in a spoiler tag, I don't want to take up too much space on the thread but I'd love it if some of you gave your opinions on how possible/far fetched my thinking is. It'll become relevant eventually why Elma's thread is a suitable place for this. I don't plan on putting any major game spoilers below, so don't worry about that.

And a disclaimer; I don't want to appear ungrateful for all that the team has done on Ultimate, I adore the game. The following is something I think is possible but not definite. It's something I want, but I do not feel entitled to it. If season 2 is the endgame, I can appreciate that. THIS IS ENTIRELY SPECULATION.

So the bulk of my theory is that Smash Ultimate might get an expansion with a story mode as its focus. At the end of the final Smash direct before the game launched, Sakurai showed off the intro cutscene for World of Light, which is the story mode included within the spirits mode in SSBU, the opening cutscene surprised due to how dramatic it was, and because it was voice acted. Fox, Zelda, Marth and Pit all speak in this intro. Overall, however the story doesn't actually ever feature any more voice acting. interestingly, all 4 of those characters are only voiced in game in English and Japanese. Outside of this cutscene only a few characters are voiced in any other language.

I considered that, if we were to get a story mode featuring voice acting, the story itself might focus on characters who can be portrayed in speaking roles both in English and Japanese, such as the aforementioned 4. This is when I started to notice a pattern in the DLC characters. Plant can't talk at all, Joker and Byleth speak the occasional line outside of story scenes, but tend to remain silent, Banjo and Kazooie make animal noises, the Heroes as far as I can tell never talk at all, Terry is... Terry, Min Min speaks Chinese, Steve is silent and Sephiroth speaks only Japanese. Pyra and Mythra were the 1st characters added who could feasibly play a major role in the game's cutscenes. While they break the pattern, there's a reason why them specifically being the ones to do so might be quite interesting which I'll get back to later. Even considering the new characters at launch, only Ken and maybe the Belmonts would make sense in talking roles. It's not so much about whether a character CAN talk, but rather if they are depicted talking enough to hold a conversation. Imagine the difference between Mario and Sonic.

If there was to be a story expansion to Smash, perhaps then, characters who could participate in the narrative and make for exciting reveals during the plot might actually be saved for that, whilst characters who would be expected to stand in the background of scenes and make gestures would find their way into the pass. It'd also be a great opportunity for characters who don't fit the pass format well to make it in. Maybe they don't need a new stage, or a ton of music, or even that they are an Echo fighter. Among the newcomers at launch, only Inkling and Simon had enough content to make up a Fighter Pack (albeit with extras like assist trophies and an echo fighter).

Presumably, a story mode would bring with it more bosses to fight. Currently, the vast majority of Classic mode routes, use Master Hand as their boss, with other bosses being featured on between 2 to 7 routes, perhaps more bosses are planned to replace some of the Classic routes that use M Hand and more importantly, once we have all of them, we get a proper Boss Rush mode. Honestly, it seems strange to me that you can't just boot up the game, choose a character and enjoy fighting any boss in the game immediately, without having to complete a platforming stage and using spirits.

Ok, the elephant in the room... how could the possibly do all this, and Ultimate, and 2 seasons. I'll be referencing this sakurai column from 2007, translated by Source Gaming... bear with me here.


Sakurai suggests that the original concept for Subspace Emissary is that an entirely different team would handle it, as if it was a different production. So one team on the core Smash game, and another on Subspace. Ultimately they didn't find a team they could trust so SSE was handled in house, with the cutscenes outsourced.

I think there's a chance that they could revisit this concept in the modern era, splitting what is essentially to productions into a game and it's DLC model (and potentially a re-release down the line). But in order to do so, they would need to find a developer who they could trust to handle such a huge task... Ok, hold on to your butts...

  • Preferably, they would need to have worked on Smash before, or some other Crossover game
  • They would need experience at making levels and writing story
  • They would need to have a good working relationship with Nintendo, Sakurai and Namco
  • They would need to be capable of working in an assist role with another developer
  • They would need to be able to animate in the Smash Ultimate engine

I have someone in mind, Monolith Soft.

They co-developed Smash Brawl and developed the Project X Zone games for Namco. They're highly regarded for their writing and level building skills. They are owned by Nintendo, formally by Namco and have worked with Sakurai before. They assisted on other Nintendo titles such as Zelda, Animal Crossing and Splatoon. They wrote and animated the Pyra/Mythra trailer, the first not written by Sakurai.

In the Pyra/Mythra presentation, Sakurai mentions there was trial and error designing Mythra's costume for Ultimate, but we saw that finalized back in 2018 when it appeared as DLC in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. It seems to me that Monolith Soft have been working with Sakurai in some form for quite some time before this fighter's launch, and that he trusts them with handling cinematics for the series. So why not save Pyra/Mythra for the story mode? Well, perhaps some other Monolith Soft characters are planned for that instead.

I've been thinking about some of this stuff for years so theres probably little thoughts I've had here or there that I've missed, but I just want to hear some opinions from the thread, as Smash fans and as Monolith fans, is this something you think is even possible, would you want this sort of expansion?
Without a doubt, I’d want it. While I liked what WoL represented in terms of filling in the blanks, I did miss the interactions.

is it possible? Maybe on an Ultimate Deluxe for a hypothetical Super Switch. Which at this moment, looks like Elma’s only hope. Truth be told... I feel like she was base or bust anyway, but if XCDE is an indication, maybe XCXDE will help her a lot... especially if THAT is a Super Switch exclusive. Also, it still feels empty having the dlc characters have no Palutena Guidances

and kudos to mentioning PXZ. still hoping for that third game, maybe our girl will be in it too
 
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RebelMaren

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Without a doubt, I’d want it. While I liked what WoL represented in terms of filling in the blanks, I did miss the interactions.

is it possible? Maybe on an Ultimate Deluxe for a hypothetical Super Switch. Which at this moment, looks like Elma’s only hope. Truth be told... I feel like she was base or bust anyway, but if XCDE is an indication, maybe XCXDE will help her a lot... especially if THAT is a Super Switch exclusive. Also, it still feels empty having the dlc characters have no Palutena Guidances

and kudos to mentioning PXZ. still hoping for that third game, maybe our girl will be in it too
I doubt it'd be exclusive to the Super Switch, but maybe the story mode would have areas that don't quite run a solid 60fps on the regular model. Honestly I don't really know what a new model would do for Smash aside from fps and resolution. Smash is more driven by the continuous stream of software rather than hardware, it'd be a shame for it to end when we're still getting characters from 2017, Byleth excluded.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I doubt it'd be exclusive to the Super Switch, but maybe the story mode would have areas that don't quite run a solid 60fps on the regular model. Honestly I don't really know what a new model would do for Smash aside from fps and resolution. Smash is more driven by the continuous stream of software rather than hardware, it'd be a shame for it to end when we're still getting characters from 2017, Byleth excluded.
MAYBE, and I’m spitballing here, it could handle slightly more complex mechanics?
 

RebelMaren

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MAYBE, and I’m spitballing here, it could handle slightly more complex mechanics?
Like, how Sakurai mentioned Rex and Pyra were too complex for Ultimate due to their designs? Probably, but you don't want to do anything the regular Switch can't do, like how Ice Climbers are in Wii U due to 3DS. If regular switch was limited to only 4 of certain complex characters at a time while the Super Switch could do 8 player, I'd be down with that but I'm not sure they'd go down that route.
 

Altais

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As of now, I think I definitely like Mythra better than Pyra--though Pyra is great as well. I just prefer speed over power. I can already see how they can be used for mindgames & mixups. And since their normal moves have the same basic animations, you don't have to commit much to memory. It's official: I'm maining Pyra/Mythra.

While it is possible there will be more fighters beyond season 2, as usual I'm not expecting anymore fighters to be added. If we DID get more fighters, then I definitely hope Nintendo will let Sakurai pick them. If that happened, then I fancy Elma would stand a better chance, since Sakurai usually picks whomever has the most moveset potential. If it were up to Sakurai, I'm willing to bet he would have added Claude to Smash, not Byleth. Claude just had so much more potential than Byleth to add something new to the table.
 

Rie Sonomura

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not sure if this video was shared here yet, but:

and with Pythra in Smash, they're getting even more revenue now I'm sure...

but truth be told, until that day comes, and if (IF) Ultimate resumes DLC or that Ultimate Deluxe happens or BY SOME MIRACLE Elma does get confirmed by merit of a double dip soon, I might request this thread be locked soon and for the time being leave Smashboards for my mental health. I'll make a closing statement when I'm ready.

I've realized I've been letting a game impact my life too much cause speculation was a distraction through all these tough times, and I need to self care cause this isn't working out anymore.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I suppose that’s fair enough.

I just won’t be around to manage the OP much if at all, then again the Shantae thread is the most active thread here and the founder hasn’t been seen since 2019.

when I’m ready, I’ll still leave for a bit though with an announcement. I’ll return if the aforementioned scenarios happen. And rest assured I’ll be looking for ways to care for my mental health.
 

Starlight Liger

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I suppose that’s fair enough.

I just won’t be around to manage the OP much if at all, then again the Shantae thread is the most active thread here and the founder hasn’t been seen since 2019.

when I’m ready, I’ll still leave for a bit though with an announcement. I’ll return if the aforementioned scenarios happen. And rest assured I’ll be looking for ways to care for my mental health.
Take care of your mental health, you've been awesome supporting this thread and the KOS-MOS thread.

If there's a Xenoblade Chronicles X Definitive Edition announced, we'll be sure to talk about it here.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Take care of your mental health, you've been awesome supporting this thread and the KOS-MOS thread.

If there's a Xenoblade Chronicles X Definitive Edition announced, we'll be sure to talk about it here.
At the very least even if I can’t get Elma I’ll be celebrating with KOS-MOS. A T-elos echo would be sweet but not counting on it, esp if they come with X music for... some reason.

or Octoling, or Reimu or any other of my previously mentioned MWs... I just want ONE I really want. Not asking for much at this point. I’d say Fiora but that dream died at launch, Chrom’s just the exception.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Well. I saw it coming.

Have a tweet to mark the occasion.


Interesting to note though that the Lloyd Mii costume still isn't back. . .?
Sad thing is, most people and Xenoblade fans will move on to characters from other franchises for this game and will continue to ignore Elma and Xenoblade X's existence. It sucks.
 

Calamitas

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So, this is a very minor thought, but - when exactly did Sakurai start acknowledging game anniversaries with his picture of the day? Because I've been thinking about the possibility of him at least acknowledging the 6th anniversary of X' release next month.
 

Rie Sonomura

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So, this is a very minor thought, but - when exactly did Sakurai start acknowledging game anniversaries with his picture of the day? Because I've been thinking about the possibility of him at least acknowledging the 6th anniversary of X' release next month.
I wouldn’t count on it until X DE happens. And I’m 99% sure it WILL happen before the end of the switch’s lifespan

maybe it’ll be ported sooner than we think...
 

PSIGuy

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So, this is a very minor thought, but - when exactly did Sakurai start acknowledging game anniversaries with his picture of the day? Because I've been thinking about the possibility of him at least acknowledging the 6th anniversary of X' release next month.
I think he did make a tweet when he started acknowledging anniversaries but I'm having trouble finding it.
EDIT 1:
Here's one post where he acknowledged anniversaries.
In the future, I wonder if I will do the release anniversary material from time to time. I will do it within the range that is in stock and the range that I noticed, so it does not cover much.
"Within the stock and range that I notice"...
 
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PSIGuy

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If he doesn't have a mii costume or assist tropy or whatever to use a picture of I doubt he'd cover it. And besides I wouldn't sweat it.
He's referenced some obscure games before, ones without any [explicit] content in Smash.
I just want to see if he'll keep his record of never acknowledging X. He's got a perfect record for that so far.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Hey watch the embeds, it’s hell on mobile users

but I wanna believe he’s still holding off until the right time...
 

Altais

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Pyra & Mythra's classic mode is intense... But it's well worth it, since it really pushes you to master them. Also, the theme of their classic mode was pretty clever; alteregos. Right now, I've just been focusing solely on Mythra. Once I get past her learning curve, I'll focus on Pyra next.

I wonder what Elma's classic mode would be like. I could see it referencing the main story in Xenoblade Chronicles X.
 

PSIGuy

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Pyra/Mythra's implementation did make me think that an Elma moveset could work where her tilts and jabs are the same basic animation, but using her current equipped weapon (ie dual guns or dual swords). Dual guns have the Bayonetta effect of dealing damage in line of sight but no knockback except on the bayonets of the pistols. Dual swords obviously have swordy range. Her jab is a basic attack that can be used while moving, like an autoattack. Then her actual specials and smashes are different and based off arts in-game.
 

Calamitas

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I think he did make a tweet when he started acknowledging anniversaries but I'm having trouble finding it.
EDIT 1:
Here's one post where he acknowledged anniversaries.

"Within the stock and range that I notice"...
Oh, so there actually was a specific point where he started doing that? Interesting. And it just so happened to be after the fifth anniversary of X' Japanese release date. Plus, he doesn't usually acknowledge exclusively Western ones, no?
 

PSIGuy

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He did it veeeeery infrequently beforewards, and sort of codified it after that tweet. He also only does Japanese release dates and only other ones if they're nearby (for DKC he noted it came out a day or so earlier than the Japanese release). So every reason to mark April 29th on the Calendar and see if he bothers mentioning X.
 
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