Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

[Calamitas]

I don't know if anybody can help, but does anybody mind helping me with XC1's Colony 6 Reconstruction? I've been playing through the main story (haven't started Future Connected), and I've been trying to balance out the Reconstruction and the main story.

That was always something i somewhat ignored in the original. I really need to chance it this time around.

I got the game yesterday and yeah...game's still great. Haven't left Colony 9 yet. Doing some sidequest as of right now.
btw can we talk about how good some of the new remixes are? "One Who Gets In Our Way" is sooooo good!

Colony 6 reconstruction is pretty helpful in actually helping you along the way, since the ether deposits in the region also level up once you get the nature part to a certain level. And of course, there's the portable ether furnace that allows you to craft gems without having to return to Colony 9, which you get for getting all four parts of Colony 6 up to level one.
Anyway, in general, the individual levels of reconstruction pretty much correspond to specific areas. What I mean is, any of the level one rebuilding only uses stuff you can get from the areas up to Bionis' Leg, anything for the level two rebuilding only needs stuff up to Makna Forest (I think? I only just got there myself), and so on. So it's generally just for the best if you check in on Colony 6 every time you reach a major new area, or rather, check the option in the mission menu.

 

[Wisehunter]

So, I did not read many spoilers regarding FC nor will I, but like Rie, I was interested in spoilers that could relate to X.

As you may recall, I brought here some time ago that Twitter tread before 1 definitive edition release, where a guy did an interesting theory regarding FC, and X.

I did no play FC so I dont know if that theory was debunked or not, but based on a partial spoiler I heard, I think it is relevant, and the guys here that beated FC should keep an open eye in that, if they dont already.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So Elma's chances in smash ride on whether or not Sakurai accepts to keep Rex as a Miss Costume only, I assume?

I still think we could potentially get both Elma and Rex & Pyra if we miraculously get another Season Pass which is unlikely. Out of the two though I think Elma is more likely.

 

[Jocario Zero]

One thing i hope for, if we get another Xenoblade-Character:

The stage that comes with him/her is a bit more "simpler" (for lack of a better word).

Im not the biggest fan of the plattform-layout of Gaur-Plains in Smash. I don't dislike it, but i don't find myself playing on it very much and if i do, it's mostly the Battlefield-version. I find myself having a hard time fighting on all the smaller plattforms. Still love that Metal Face-Cameo though.

It doesn't have to be as simple as say Battlefield but something more like Mementos or Hyrule Castle would be nice.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So I was browsing Twitter (because I secretly hate myself), and I found this tier list of almost every Nintendo game ever apparently. And guess what? All four Xenoblade games made the top 2 categories!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[RebelMaren]

Hey guys I'm back, just finished Xenoblade and Future Connected for the 1st time and I loved it. Also...

Spoiler: Future Connected ending spoilers

I'm totally on board with the ending of FC connecting to X, it's just too much. An unknown enemy similar to Black Tar, a portal to Shulk knows where, Telethia of all things being the ones going into it. Perhaps we're seeing teh beginning of the Xeno Universes connected arc, and maybe the Fog King is related to the Ghosts from X. My heads spinning now, I'm pretty excited.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

i've been thinking about the Uncontrollable and Black Tar thing

perhaps XCDE will get an update down the line that does indeed utilize those...? like you know...?

 

[chocolatejr9]

i've been thinking about the Uncontrollable and Black Tar thing

perhaps XCDE will get an update down the line that does indeed utilize those...? like you know...?

Now that you mention it, I read somewhere that there was unused Time Trial data in DE. I don't have a source on that, but if true, we may have a chance at something more...

 

[Calamitas]

Let's not lose our heads, though. These Black Tar and Uncontrollable rumors were, as far as I know, and as PSIguy already said, just this: Rumors. There was nothing of either of those tracks discovered in the game's files. And also:

Hey guys I'm back, just finished Xenoblade and Future Connected for the 1st time and I loved it. Also...

Spoiler: Future Connected ending spoilers

I'm totally on board with the ending of FC connecting to X, it's just too much. An unknown enemy similar to Black Tar, a portal to Shulk knows where, Telethia of all things being the ones going into it. Perhaps we're seeing teh beginning of the Xeno Universes connected arc, and maybe the Fog King is related to the Ghosts from X. My heads spinning now, I'm pretty excited.

Spoiler

I'd remain cautious about getting too enthusiastic about this. While I disagree with PSIguy's assertion that this absolutely can't mean anything, I still think the climax cutscene is too ambiguous to really make a statement like "a Telethia definitely did fly through the rift". And with Alcamoth and the first phase of the Fog King fight reusing music primarily associated with Zanza, I wouldn't be surprised if it was supposed to be some kind of divine being. . . which really wouldn't fit into X. At the end of the day though, Monolith has kept this all so vague that only they can say for certain what it's supposed to mean.

Now that you mention it, I read somewhere that there was unused Time Trial data in DE. I don't have a source on that, but if true, we may have a chance at something more...

Mh. That would sound promising, but unless you can actually find the source for that, I'll remain highly doubtful.

-----

Anyway, somewhat unrelated, but I just reached Alcamoth in my own playthrough of DE's main game. And since the general aesthetic of it with the graphical overhaul reminded me of a certain meme, I decided to make something with a screenshot I took:

Spoiler: Somewhat big image

 

[RebelMaren]

Spoiler: Future Connected Ending Spoilers

I appreciate that it might not connect to X, but just consider this. It's Telethia, At least one does show up on Mira, and it IS a portal. If a horde of creatures fly at a portal and don't think it's too much to think that some of them got through it. It's all too specific if you ask me, and Takahashi Tetsuya suggested in an interview the story was meant to "continue the story towards the future of Xenoblade". For now I remain open to other explanations and I'm looking forward to seeing more evidence regarding connections to XB2 that the Fog King may also have.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Let's not lose our heads, though. These Black Tar and Uncontrollable rumors were, as far as I know, and as PSIguy already said, just this: Rumors. There was nothing of either of those tracks discovered in the game's files. And also:

Spoiler

I'd remain cautious about getting too enthusiastic about this. While I disagree with PSIguy's assertion that this absolutely can't mean anything, I still think the climax cutscene is too ambiguous to really make a statement like "a Telethia definitely did fly through the rift". And with Alcamoth and the first phase of the Fog King fight reusing music primarily associated with Zanza, I wouldn't be surprised if it was supposed to be some kind of divine being. . . which really wouldn't fit into X. At the end of the day though, Monolith has kept this all so vague that only they can say for certain what it's supposed to mean.

Mh. That would sound promising, but unless you can actually find the source for that, I'll remain highly doubtful.

-----

Anyway, somewhat unrelated, but I just reached Alcamoth in my own playthrough of DE's main game. And since the general aesthetic of it with the graphical overhaul reminded me of a certain meme, I decided to make something with a screenshot I took:

Spoiler: Somewhat big image

Yeah, sorry about that. I tried Google, but only found that one thing about Rex and the music. Unless I missed something obvious, we'll have to wait and see.

By the way, GameXplain managed to get an interview with the Xenoblade guys, and we learn a bit more about DE's development.

 

[PSIGuy]

Most of that interview was stuff we've already heard, but 4:04 was interesting. They say that Genki Yokota "even got Shulk and some other characters into Xenoblade 2 as DLC" when talking about his work on the series. Yokota was the Nintendo side director for Xenoblade 1 and X, and among other things I believe he was the one who suggested implementing online elements into X when they were reworking the game. It sounds like he's the reason they had crossover stuff in the DLC, rather than Monolith Soft deciding to do it themselves. If that's true (it might be terrible wording on GameExplain's part) then it's clear people at Nintendo still care about all the games in the series which is reassuring.

 

[Wisehunter]

Well, originally it looked to me that 1 DE was a full remake of 1, but know that we clearly know that it uses a huge chunck of the original assets and could only afford some graphical re-touches like important characters, uping some textures and improving lighting, etc, it does shows that indeed they were saying the truth when way back them they said they did not have money to bring X to the switch (but could at least do 1 since it is much smaller).

I hope 1DE does well, and I hope the current project they are working on is that supposed new IP that has online features, and I hope it does well too.


So after this, with the money they got, and with the expertise of doing 1DE and the expertise of having another game with online features, they can finally do a X definitive edition combining all this knowledge.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I am curious about something

Spoiler: Future Connected

when they say the Fog King looks like an X enemy... which X enemy are they referring to? The Yggralith? It’s an enemy that so far has only appeared in X (Yggralith Zero, Pharsis, that one online mission exclusive Tyrant) and Yggralith Zero is one of two Global Nemeses in X...

The other being Telethia Plume.

 

[RebelMaren]

I am curious about something

Spoiler: Future Connected

when they say the Fog King looks like an X enemy... which X enemy are they referring to? The Yggralith? It’s an enemy that so far has only appeared in X (Yggralith Zero, Pharsis, that one online mission exclusive Tyrant) and Yggralith Zero is one of two Global Nemeses in X...

The other being Telethia Plume.

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 spoilers

I believe it's said that the Fog King resembles Infernal Guldo from XC2, the monster that drops Galea's ID tag.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 spoilers

I believe it's said that the Fog King resembles Infernal Guldo from XC2, the monster that drops Galea's ID tag.

Spoiler: XC2 & XCX

they do look vaguely similar...

 

[RebelMaren]

Spoiler: XC2 & XCX

they do look vaguely similar...

Spoiler: XCX and FC spoilers probably

Really I'm not sure what the Fog King Eludes to, but here's something fun I've been thinking about on the subject of Future Connected and XCX.

After their ship crash lands on unexplored territory, our heroes set out to explore this new land, complete a variety of side quests and ultimately bring down an Alien threat by bringing together the various groups they find in this new land.

What game did I just describe?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Spoiler: XCX and FC spoilers probably

Really I'm not sure what the Fog King Eludes to, but here's something fun I've been thinking about on the subject of Future Connected and XCX.

After their ship crash lands on unexplored territory, our heroes set out to explore this new land, complete a variety of side quests and ultimately bring down an Alien threat by bringing together the various groups they find in this new land.

What game did I just describe?

Spoiler: Future Connected and XCX

Yes.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Spoiler: XCX and FC spoilers probably

Really I'm not sure what the Fog King Eludes to, but here's something fun I've been thinking about on the subject of Future Connected and XCX.

After their ship crash lands on unexplored territory, our heroes set out to explore this new land, complete a variety of side quests and ultimately bring down an Alien threat by bringing together the various groups they find in this new land.

What game did I just describe?

An isekai?

 

[RebelMaren]

An isekai?

I had to google that and I'm afraid I don't see the connections there.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

An isekai?

Don't you need someone to fall down a well or get caught in a car accident for those?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Don't you need someone to fall down a well or get caught in a car accident for those?

Not all the time. Sometimes it just happens for no discernable reason.

 

[PSIGuy]

『ゼノブレイド』がWiiで発売されてから、今日でちょうど10年が経つんですも！
これからも「ゼノブレイド」シリーズを、どうぞよろしくお願いしますも！#ゼノブレイド #ゼノブレイドクロス #ゼノブレイド2 pic.twitter.com/4JjL0tgpf4

— ゼノブレイド総合 (@XenobladeJP) June 10, 2020

Xenoblade's 10th anniversary being celebrated with art of all three games by CHOCO!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

『ゼノブレイド』がWiiで発売されてから、今日でちょうど10年が経つんですも！
これからも「ゼノブレイド」シリーズを、どうぞよろしくお願いしますも！#ゼノブレイド #ゼノブレイドクロス #ゼノブレイド2 pic.twitter.com/4JjL0tgpf4

— ゼノブレイド総合 (@XenobladeJP) June 10, 2020

Xenoblade's 10th anniversary being celebrated with art of all three games by CHOCO!

I love that Elma's front and center

...I think her time is next... please

 

[chocolatejr9]

I love that Elma's front and center

...I think her time is next... please

Technically, Shulk and Rex are in front of Elma, but I get what you're saying.

By the way, can anybody tell if there are other X characters in that image? I recognise characters from 1 and 2, but that's about it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Technically, Shulk and Rex are in front of Elma, but I get what you're saying.

By the way, can anybody tell if there are other X characters in that image? I recognise characters from 1 and 2, but that's about it.

I think I see Lin and Lao in the distance between Shulk and Elma

 

[Neverx]

『ゼノブレイド』がWiiで発売されてから、今日でちょうど10年が経つんですも！
これからも「ゼノブレイド」シリーズを、どうぞよろしくお願いしますも！#ゼノブレイド #ゼノブレイドクロス #ゼノブレイド2 pic.twitter.com/4JjL0tgpf4

— ゼノブレイド総合 (@XenobladeJP) June 10, 2020

Xenoblade's 10th anniversary being celebrated with art of all three games by CHOCO!

God I love this franchise, can we please just get all three of them in smash

 

[PSIGuy]

I think I see Lin and Lao in the distance between Shulk and Elma

"And the furtive pygmy, so easily forgotten"

 

[RebelMaren]

Shulk and Rex, look back. Elma, looking forward. So am I.

 

[Inawordyes]

Elma should've been the promo DLC pick over Corrin in Sm4sh. I love Corrin's moveset and don't hate him simply for existing, but if we were given the choice to promote Corrin and FEFates or Elma and XCX, I would've picked Elma in a heartbeat. Hopefully an XCX remaster and/or sequel is in the cards and Elma gets her chance another day.

 

[Wisehunter]

Technically, Shulk and Rex are in front of Elma, but I get what you're saying.

By the way, can anybody tell if there are other X characters in that image? I recognise characters from 1 and 2, but that's about it.

Ares model skell is also in the image.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ares model skell is also in the image.

A thought: what if Ares 90 was Elma’s final smash? You’d sooner expect Verus, but Ares 90 has several of the most powerful default Skell arts in the game including Aghasura Cannon

 

[RebelMaren]

Elma should've been the promo DLC pick over Corrin in Sm4sh. I love Corrin's moveset and don't hate him simply for existing, but if we were given the choice to promote Corrin and FEFates or Elma and XCX, I would've picked Elma in a heartbeat. Hopefully an XCX remaster and/or sequel is in the cards and Elma gets her chance another day.

As a Corrin main in Smash 4, I appreciate your sentiment, but you can't replace Corrin with a character who comes with a stage and a selection of music tracks, that's not a realistic exchange. As much as I love Elma, XCX's OST and world are just too big a part of the equation for it's rep to be treated like Corrin. And I still want the opera scene from Corrin's games as a stage.

 

[Nazyrus]

I don't think I have commented here before, but honestly, If I was ever given only one option to choose from between Rex or Elma, I would go with Elma in a heartbeat.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It feels so strange wanting both Rex and Elma.

I feel like most people hate the one that's not the one they prefer.

 

[chocolatejr9]

It feels so strange wanting both Rex and Elma.

I feel like most people hate the one that's not the one they prefer.

I mean, while I DO prefer Rex (by virtue of actually playing his game), I want both Rex and Elma in Smash. Maybe I'm just the weird one here...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, while I DO prefer Rex (by virtue of actually playing his game), I want both Rex and Elma in Smash. Maybe I'm just the weird one here...

I don’t hate Rex at all. Quite the opposite in fact. But I’m not counting on him to appear this game so I conceded and focused on Elma.

though if there IS another Xenoblade character I want, it’s Fiora. It’d be a dream if I can get both

 

[Selenite]

It feels so strange wanting both Rex and Elma.

I feel like most people hate the one that's not the one they prefer.

It is problem with the Smash fanbase in general. They have been conditioned to believe that whatever character that has some arbitrary "chance" could happen so vocal fan demand will appear to attempt to push them in as if the companies actually listen to "fan demand" to begin with. If giving the developers a motive in the form of "fan demand" alone would put them in Smash such as Cloud Strife, Ridley, Banjo Kazooie, Little Mac, etc, logically it can be applied to any character. Some of them act hostile for some people wanting more then one character from the same series because they should only be for "representation" rather then people genuinely like the characters. Despite Smash having a history of adding characters that were perceived to be "impossible".

Even Sakurai thought that Cloud Strife and Dragon Quest weren't "possible". But allegedly, fans still demand them. If think the developers listen to “fan demand” as a motive to make something happen then exercise this fan demand. If Nathan Drake from Uncharted is “impossible”, it shouldn’t deter people from expressing from having interest and wanting him in. Like how the crossover of Final Fantasy XIV and NieR Automata happen because “fans requested it” despite them have very different themes to them. Drakengard/NieR doesn’t "fit" for crossovers like Final Fantasy due to clashing of themes like nihilism and such.
https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/gett...s-they-talk-all-things-yorha-dark-apocalypse/

"Crossovers aren't unusual for Final Fantasy 14. The constantly growing MMO has had its fair share of team-ups with other games since it launched in 2010, with special events running alongside massive expansions over the years. Characters from other Final Fantasy games have made special appearances, and series including Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest have got in on the action. But Nier is rather different from those, considering its subversive brand of nihilistic philosophy."

OPM: Nier: Automata doesn't seem like an obvious choice to cross over with Final Fantasy 14. How did the idea come about?

Yoko Taro: I think this project came about when I had the opportunity to talk with producer Yoshida for a completely different matter. But I was eating a delicious steak at the time, and I was so invested in it that I wasn't listening. (Just kidding.)

Naoki Yoshida: From all over the world, we had been receiving requests saying that they want to wear outfits from the Nier series and for us to collaborate. Then I thought that it would be much more interesting to collaborate on a game level rather than just equipment. Plus I wanted to work with Yoko-san so I bribed him with drinks and steak.

It doesn't help that Sakurai at times behaves as if fan requests matter then they don't.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

https://www.google.com/amp/s/apptri...bros-ultimate-sakurai-character-requests/amp/
https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articl...timate-boss-asks-players-please/1100-6472836/

Sakurai literally said to stop tweeting about characters request...nice

— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) January 16, 2020

Sakurai wants you to stop requesting new fighters to Smash Ultimate https://t.co/VyU4CpbdUw pic.twitter.com/BFgPoWhXQj

— GameSpot (@GameSpot) January 17, 2020

Sakurai behaved as if he can only choose one new character from a certain series as he had not added Chocobo or Slime or another SNK character.
https://tinyurl.com/we2w3r8

– From Sakurai’s side, he says that requests to add in a Dragon Quest representative have been around for a long time, but he felt it wasn’t possible
– However, Nintendo approached Sakurai, saying it might be possible, and so he ended up doing the presentation proposal with the intent of working with Dragon Quest, although what from Dragon Quest would be worked out later on​

Sakurai doesn't seem to be allowed or wouldn't have another Final Fantasy rep alongside with Cloud Strife.
https://attackofthefanboy.com/news/...inal-fantasy-representative-super-smash-bros/
https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

The point of Cloud Strife's inclusion was intended to rep Final Fantasy in general, and to satisfy fans:

Sakurai: This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. [TN1] I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try.
Nomura: When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all.
Sakurai: But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are.
https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

If "fans" truly want more Final Fantasy characters, they should request more then one to begin with. Maybe then we would have seen Cloud showing up with Chocobo, Terra, Bartz, Moogle, Warrior of Light, and Black Mage.

Characters like Cloud and Final Fantasy was and will always be welcome in Smash. They’re beloved and legendary.

However, there’s nothing wrong with asking for more. Demands and complaints lead to improvement. We should always increase our expectations and want more out of our product.

There's like a dozen ATs that should be playable, which is why Ultimate should become a continuous platform with crossplay. It could be developed indefinitely by a small upstart team with new energy, and Sakurai could be free aside from a consulting role and could die in peace. It would prevent disappointing anyone with inevitable cuts in future games and eliminate disappointment for advertising characters like Corrin and instead make them exciting by eliminating the concept of "slots".

Spoiler: Characters that I like to see as playable

A rep of the Virtual Boy such as Harry from Teleroboxer,

A PC rep such as Dr. Gordon Freeman from Half-Life, Yuriko Omega from Command and Conquer Red Alert 3, Agent 47 from Hitman,

A Mobile rep such as a character from Dragalia Lost, Katalina from Granblue Fantasy, Rain from Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, Lif from Fire Emblem Heroes, Alice, Snow White, and Cinderella from SINoALICE.

A Horror Genre rep such as Pyramid Head from Silent Hill, Albert Wesker from Resident Evil, Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness Sanity's Requiem

A Beat em up Genre rep such as Axel Stone from Streets of Rage, Mike Haggar from Final Fight,

Third parties characters with no Nintendo platforms appearances prior, such as Velvet Crowe from Tales of Berseria.

Third parties series getting more then one unique rep, from those in Smash and others such as Drakengard/NieR, Kingdom Hearts, Tekken, Soul Edge/Soul Calibur, Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, etc

any series getting more then one new unique rep like the previous Smash games managed to do
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Fighter

such as Dixie Kong from Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest

Any series getting repped with a villain instead of this alleged “protagonist first” mentality Sakurai supposedly has, such as Heihachi Mishima from Tekken, Nightmare from Soul Edge, Vaas Montenegro from Far Cry 3, Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2, Master Aqua from Kingdom Hearts, Velvet Crowe from Tales of Berseria, Zero/ from Drakengard 3, Caim from Drakengard, Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness Sanity’s Requiem, Albert Wesker from Resident Evil, Pyramid Head from Silent Hill 2,

Characters having a NPC role in the form of Assist Trophy being playable in the same installment, such as Waluigi, Black Knight, Lyndis, Tiki, Midna, Skull Kid, Isaac, Takamaru, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Alucard, Sukapon, Riki, Sablé Prince, Saki Amamiya, Samurai Goroh, Dillon the Armadillo, Sheriff, Ashley, Gray Fox, Shadow the Hedgehog, Rodin, Zero, & Knuckles.

Ryu Hayabusa
Adol Christin
Fei Fong Wong
Chu-Chu
Big Joe
Q*bert
Crash Bandicoot
Dr. Cortex
Lip
Marcus "Needles" Kane
Calypso
Spyro
Ken Masters
Heihachi Mishima
Nightmare & Siegfried
Fighter Hayabusa
Star Man
Mike Jones
Luna Noah
Axel Stone
Lara Croft
Harry Mason
Bill Rizer
Lance Bean
Polygon Man
Alex Kidd
Opa-Opa
Conker the Squirrel
Jago
Fulgore
Battletoads
Segata Sanshiro
Sakura Shinguji
Captain N
Nester
Lester the Unlikely
Tin Star
Scorpion
Sub-Zero
Rayman
The Prince of Persia
Chocobo
Slime
Geese Howard
Zethia
https://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-this-might-be-interesting-to-look-at-melee-1999-poll.81891/
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/03/23/if-there-were-a-smash-2-poll/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/928518-super-smash-bros-brawl/40963142
https://smashboards.com/threads/new...irectory-check-here-before-making-one.446333/

Master Aqua, Sora, Riku, YoRHa Type A No.2, YoRHa Type S No. 9, YoRHa Type B No. 2, Caim, Nowe, Zero, Emil, Gray Fox, Shadow the Hedgehog, Blaze the Cat, Infinite/Zero the Jackal, Kiryu Kazama, Goro Majima, Mistral, Blade Wolf/LQ-84i, Big Boss, The Boss, Raiden, Solidus Snake, Liquid Snake, Colonel Yevgeny Borisovitch Volgin, Psycho Mantis, Revolver "Revolver Ocelot" Ocelot, Jeanne, Rosa, Father Balder, Enzo, Rodin, Kat & Dusty, Raven & Xii, Fei Fong Wong, ID, Grahf, Seeker of Power, Lieutenant Elehayym Van Houten, Emeralda, Big Joe, Elehayym Van Houten, Chu-Chu, Citan Uzuki, Maria Balthasar, Bartholomew Fatima, Ricardo Banderas, Shion Uzuki, KOS-MOS, chaos, Gaignun Kukai Jr., Jin Uzuki, Ziggy, Albedo Piazzolla, T-elos, Voyager, Kevin Winnicot, Black Knight, Rex and Pyra/Mythra/Green Ponytail, Jin, Malos, Lin Lee Koo, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Raiden, Liu Kang, Shantae, Captain Risky Boots, Spy Fox, Russian Blue, Artorias of the Abyss, Solaire of Astora, Geese Howard, Mai Shiranui, Athena Asamiya, Kyo Kusanagi, Iori Yagami, Kula Diamond, Leona Heidern, Nightmare, Yoshimitsu, Sophitia Alexandra , Tira, Geralt of Rivia, Heihachi Mishima, Kazuya Mishima, Jin Mishima, Velvet Crowe, Lloyd Irving, Yuri Lowell, Leon Magnus, Crono, Frog, Terra Branford, General Celes Chere, Shadow, Locke Cole, Bartz Klauser, Warrior of Light, Vincent Valentine, Kefka Palazzo, Sephiroth, Psaro the Manslayer, Slime, Jack Frost, Morgana, Akemi Nakajima, Kasumi Yoshizawa, Ryu Hayabusa, Kasumi,Adam Jensen, JC Denton, Gordon Freeman, G-Man, GLaDOS, Chell, Cave Johnson, Doug Rattmann, Wheatley, ATLAS and P-body, Demoman, Heavy Weapons Guy, Medic, Pyro, Scout, Soldier, Spy, Commander Shepard, Tali'Zorah, Urdnot Wrex, Javik, Kasumi Goto, Crash Bandicoot, Doctor Neo Periwinkle Cortex, Spyro the Dragon, Cynder the Dragon, Malefor, Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, Shao Jun, Desmond Miles, Ratonhnhaké:ton, Albert Wesker, Chris Redfield, Jill Valentine, Leon S. Kennedy, Ada Wong, Nemesis, Harry Mason, Pyramid Head, Vergil, Nero the Notorious Deadbeat, V, Guest Starring The SKULLS Unit, Featuring Dante from The Devil May Cry Series & Knuckles.

Sakurai's whole point of adding Piranha Plant was to show that you don't have to be the main character, or even an important character, to make it into Smash yet some people still refuse to accept that
https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros?amp

The Super Smash Bros. series has always spawned much fan speculation for characters that will be included, but with Piranha Plant, you have given players one of the most unpredictable inclusions. How does it feel to be able to still surprise fans even so many years later? Was that one of the intents of the inclusion of this character?

Sakurai: I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.

Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?

Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. And, I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus.

Previous Smash games has managed to include more then one new fighter from the same series, be it "clone" or unique.
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Fighter
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Clone

There are examples of characters appearing in other games due to popularity:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_breakout_characters
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakoutCharacter


This is in with Sakurai and Reggie claiming Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is an "ambitious crossover".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...-creator-details-future-dlc-plans-1014225/amp

Bottom line: Any characters can be in Smash due to giving the Smash devs an excuse: "fan requests" regardless of perceived "chances". If you don't exercise this fan demand, then they won't join in Smash because of "fan requests" and if they do, it's for the developers own reasons.

 

[RebelMaren]

It is problem with the Smash fanbase in general. They have been conditioned to believe that whatever character that has some arbitrary "chance" could happen so vocal fan demand will appear to attempt to push them in as if the companies actually listen to "fan demand" to begin with. If giving the developers a motive in the form of "fan demand" alone would put them in Smash such as Cloud Strife, Ridley, Banjo Kazooie, Little Mac, etc, logically it can be applied to any character. Some of them act hostile for some people wanting more then one character from the same series because they should only be for "representation" rather then people genuinely like the characters. Despite Smash having a history of adding characters that were perceived to be "impossible".

Even Sakurai thought that Cloud Strife and Dragon Quest weren't "possible". But allegedly, fans still demand them. If think the developers listen to “fan demand” as a motive to make something happen then exercise this fan demand. If Nathan Drake from Uncharted is “impossible”, it shouldn’t deter people from expressing from having interest and wanting him in. Like how the crossover of Final Fantasy XIV and NieR Automata happen because “fans requested it” despite them have very different themes to them. Drakengard/NieR doesn’t "fit" for crossovers like Final Fantasy due to clashing of themes like nihilism and such.
https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/gett...s-they-talk-all-things-yorha-dark-apocalypse/

"Crossovers aren't unusual for Final Fantasy 14. The constantly growing MMO has had its fair share of team-ups with other games since it launched in 2010, with special events running alongside massive expansions over the years. Characters from other Final Fantasy games have made special appearances, and series including Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest have got in on the action. But Nier is rather different from those, considering its subversive brand of nihilistic philosophy."

OPM: Nier: Automata doesn't seem like an obvious choice to cross over with Final Fantasy 14. How did the idea come about?

Yoko Taro: I think this project came about when I had the opportunity to talk with producer Yoshida for a completely different matter. But I was eating a delicious steak at the time, and I was so invested in it that I wasn't listening. (Just kidding.)

Naoki Yoshida: From all over the world, we had been receiving requests saying that they want to wear outfits from the Nier series and for us to collaborate. Then I thought that it would be much more interesting to collaborate on a game level rather than just equipment. Plus I wanted to work with Yoko-san so I bribed him with drinks and steak.

It doesn't help that Sakurai at times behaves as if fan requests matter then they don't.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

https://www.google.com/amp/s/apptri...bros-ultimate-sakurai-character-requests/amp/
https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articl...timate-boss-asks-players-please/1100-6472836/

Sakurai literally said to stop tweeting about characters request...nice

— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) January 16, 2020

Sakurai wants you to stop requesting new fighters to Smash Ultimate https://t.co/VyU4CpbdUw pic.twitter.com/BFgPoWhXQj

— GameSpot (@GameSpot) January 17, 2020

Sakurai behaved as if he can only choose one new character from a certain series as he had not added Chocobo or Slime or another SNK character.
https://tinyurl.com/we2w3r8

– From Sakurai’s side, he says that requests to add in a Dragon Quest representative have been around for a long time, but he felt it wasn’t possible​

– However, Nintendo approached Sakurai, saying it might be possible, and so he ended up doing the presentation proposal with the intent of working with Dragon Quest, although what from Dragon Quest would be worked out later on​

Sakurai doesn't seem to be allowed or wouldn't have another Final Fantasy rep alongside with Cloud Strife.
https://attackofthefanboy.com/news/...inal-fantasy-representative-super-smash-bros/
https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

The point of Cloud Strife's inclusion was intended to rep Final Fantasy in general, and to satisfy fans:

Sakurai: This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. [TN1] I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try.
Nomura: When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all.
Sakurai: But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are.
https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

If "fans" truly want more Final Fantasy characters, they should request more then one to begin with. Maybe then we would have seen Cloud showing up with Chocobo, Terra, Bartz, Moogle, Warrior of Light, and Black Mage.

Characters like Cloud and Final Fantasy was and will always be welcome in Smash. They’re beloved and legendary.

However, there’s nothing wrong with asking for more. Demands and complaints lead to improvement. We should always increase our expectations and want more out of our product.

There's like a dozen ATs that should be playable, which is why Ultimate should become a continuous platform with crossplay. It could be developed indefinitely by a small upstart team with new energy, and Sakurai could be free aside from a consulting role and could die in peace. It would prevent disappointing anyone with inevitable cuts in future games and eliminate disappointment for advertising characters like Corrin and instead make them exciting by eliminating the concept of "slots".

Spoiler: Characters that I like to see as playable

A rep of the Virtual Boy such as Harry from Teleroboxer,

A PC rep such as Dr. Gordon Freeman from Half-Life, Yuriko Omega from Command and Conquer Red Alert 3, Agent 47 from Hitman,

A Mobile rep such as a character from Dragalia Lost, Katalina from Granblue Fantasy, Rain from Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, Lif from Fire Emblem Heroes, Alice, Snow White, and Cinderella from SINoALICE.

A Horror Genre rep such as Pyramid Head from Silent Hill, Albert Wesker from Resident Evil, Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness Sanity's Requiem

A Beat em up Genre rep such as Axel Stone from Streets of Rage, Mike Haggar from Final Fight,

Third parties characters with no Nintendo platforms appearances prior, such as Velvet Crowe from Tales of Berseria.

Third parties series getting more then one unique rep, from those in Smash and others such as Drakengard/NieR, Kingdom Hearts, Tekken, Soul Edge/Soul Calibur, Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, etc

any series getting more then one new unique rep like the previous Smash games managed to do
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Fighter

such as Dixie Kong from Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest

Any series getting repped with a villain instead of this alleged “protagonist first” mentality Sakurai supposedly has, such as Heihachi Mishima from Tekken, Nightmare from Soul Edge, Vaas Montenegro from Far Cry 3, Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2, Master Aqua from Kingdom Hearts, Velvet Crowe from Tales of Berseria, Zero/ from Drakengard 3, Caim from Drakengard, Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness Sanity’s Requiem, Albert Wesker from Resident Evil, Pyramid Head from Silent Hill 2,

Characters having a NPC role in the form of Assist Trophy being playable in the same installment, such as Waluigi, Black Knight, Lyndis, Tiki, Midna, Skull Kid, Isaac, Takamaru, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Alucard, Sukapon, Riki, Sablé Prince, Saki Amamiya, Samurai Goroh, Dillon the Armadillo, Sheriff, Ashley, Gray Fox, Shadow the Hedgehog, Rodin, Zero, & Knuckles.

Ryu Hayabusa
Adol Christin
Fei Fong Wong
Chu-Chu
Big Joe
Q*bert
Crash Bandicoot
Dr. Cortex
Lip
Marcus "Needles" Kane
Calypso
Spyro
Ken Masters
Heihachi Mishima
Nightmare & Siegfried
Fighter Hayabusa
Star Man
Mike Jones
Luna Noah
Axel Stone
Lara Croft
Harry Mason
Bill Rizer
Lance Bean
Polygon Man
Alex Kidd
Opa-Opa
Conker the Squirrel
Jago
Fulgore
Battletoads
Segata Sanshiro
Sakura Shinguji
Captain N
Nester
Lester the Unlikely
Tin Star
Scorpion
Sub-Zero
Rayman
The Prince of Persia
Chocobo
Slime
Geese Howard
Zethia
https://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-this-might-be-interesting-to-look-at-melee-1999-poll.81891/
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/03/23/if-there-were-a-smash-2-poll/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/928518-super-smash-bros-brawl/40963142
https://smashboards.com/threads/new...irectory-check-here-before-making-one.446333/

Master Aqua, Sora, Riku, YoRHa Type A No.2, YoRHa Type S No. 9, YoRHa Type B No. 2, Caim, Nowe, Zero, Emil, Gray Fox, Shadow the Hedgehog, Blaze the Cat, Infinite/Zero the Jackal, Kiryu Kazama, Goro Majima, Mistral, Blade Wolf/LQ-84i, Big Boss, The Boss, Raiden, Solidus Snake, Liquid Snake, Colonel Yevgeny Borisovitch Volgin, Psycho Mantis, Revolver "Revolver Ocelot" Ocelot, Jeanne, Rosa, Father Balder, Enzo, Rodin, Kat & Dusty, Raven & Xii, Fei Fong Wong, ID, Grahf, Seeker of Power, Lieutenant Elehayym Van Houten, Emeralda, Big Joe, Elehayym Van Houten, Chu-Chu, Citan Uzuki, Maria Balthasar, Bartholomew Fatima, Ricardo Banderas, Shion Uzuki, KOS-MOS, chaos, Gaignun Kukai Jr., Jin Uzuki, Ziggy, Albedo Piazzolla, T-elos, Voyager, Kevin Winnicot, Black Knight, Rex and Pyra/Mythra/Green Ponytail, Jin, Malos, Lin Lee Koo, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Raiden, Liu Kang, Shantae, Captain Risky Boots, Spy Fox, Russian Blue, Artorias of the Abyss, Solaire of Astora, Geese Howard, Mai Shiranui, Athena Asamiya, Kyo Kusanagi, Iori Yagami, Kula Diamond, Leona Heidern, Nightmare, Yoshimitsu, Sophitia Alexandra , Tira, Geralt of Rivia, Heihachi Mishima, Kazuya Mishima, Jin Mishima, Velvet Crowe, Lloyd Irving, Yuri Lowell, Leon Magnus, Crono, Frog, Terra Branford, General Celes Chere, Shadow, Locke Cole, Bartz Klauser, Warrior of Light, Vincent Valentine, Kefka Palazzo, Sephiroth, Psaro the Manslayer, Slime, Jack Frost, Morgana, Akemi Nakajima, Kasumi Yoshizawa, Ryu Hayabusa, Kasumi,Adam Jensen, JC Denton, Gordon Freeman, G-Man, GLaDOS, Chell, Cave Johnson, Doug Rattmann, Wheatley, ATLAS and P-body, Demoman, Heavy Weapons Guy, Medic, Pyro, Scout, Soldier, Spy, Commander Shepard, Tali'Zorah, Urdnot Wrex, Javik, Kasumi Goto, Crash Bandicoot, Doctor Neo Periwinkle Cortex, Spyro the Dragon, Cynder the Dragon, Malefor, Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, Shao Jun, Desmond Miles, Ratonhnhaké:ton, Albert Wesker, Chris Redfield, Jill Valentine, Leon S. Kennedy, Ada Wong, Nemesis, Harry Mason, Pyramid Head, Vergil, Nero the Notorious Deadbeat, V, Guest Starring The SKULLS Unit, Featuring Dante from The Devil May Cry Series & Knuckles.

Sakurai's whole point of adding Piranha Plant was to show that you don't have to be the main character, or even an important character, to make it into Smash yet some people still refuse to accept that
https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros?amp

The Super Smash Bros. series has always spawned much fan speculation for characters that will be included, but with Piranha Plant, you have given players one of the most unpredictable inclusions. How does it feel to be able to still surprise fans even so many years later? Was that one of the intents of the inclusion of this character?

Sakurai: I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.

Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?

Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. And, I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus.

Previous Smash games has managed to include more then one new fighter from the same series, be it "clone" or unique.
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Fighter
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Clone

There are examples of characters appearing in other games due to popularity:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_breakout_characters
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakoutCharacter


This is in with Sakurai and Reggie claiming Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is an "ambitious crossover".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...-creator-details-future-dlc-plans-1014225/amp

Bottom line: Any characters can be in Smash due to giving the Smash devs an excuse: "fan requests" regardless of perceived "chances". If you don't exercise this fan demand, then they won't join in Smash because of "fan requests" and if they do, it's for the developers own reasons.

Great post! I think people tend to focus to much on Smash being a crossover, or a celebration or an oppertunity for a franchise to be marketed/resurrected and forget the simple truth, Smash Bros is a video game. Each new addition has to stand alone as an interesting function of the game. It's the reason I could never get mad at Sakurai adding another Pokemon, that character pool gives the dev team so many choices to what type of character they could make, it gave smash a heel wrestler and a water ninja.

So much conversation about characters is shut down by rules and regulations and a silly desire to not get it wrong, and frankly it's led speculation to frequently fail. ARMS was taken off the radar, it took a Nintendo accident to get Terry's name out there, Minecraft sold more than Banjo so theres a full gone conclusion to be drawn there. This 'speculation' thing... we're actually really bad at it, we hang onto fan polls that don't reflect Smash's needs as a game, and instead just the desires of communities seeing Smash as a platform for their favourite characters.

When the SNK leak happened last year I thought as much, and I took a look at a small bingo card I made regarding who I thought might get added to Smash and I found it disheartening, cause I'd filled it half with characters I didn't even really like... so I started over. Elma stayed. Even Shadow stayed, I don't care if he's an assist. I added Yuri and Velvet from Tales of... why just want one? I kept Doomslayer, I added Artorias. I even added Commander Shepard from Mass Effect... and I added Min-Min and a Three Houses rep (I actually put an upside down image of Claude but I wasn't married to it being him specifically.). Weirdly, since I made that card, 2 of those games have gotten reps, and I think that is because I started focusing on the game, not the characters, and not the communities around them.

Support the characters you love. Support Elma. Support Rex. Support Smash

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Bottom line: Any characters can be in Smash due to giving the Smash devs an excuse: "fan requests" regardless of perceived "chances". If you don't exercise this fan demand, then they won't join in Smash because of "fan requests" and if they do, it's for the developers own reasons.

I mean, I agree but I don't see what your post has to do with my statement.