Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

[Renmazuo]

Some days I wonder it would have been like if The Last Story or Pandora's Tower got added to Smash instead of Xenoblade. Would Xenoblade still get its sequals? Or would the other(s) become proper series instead? The world may never know...

No chance. Xenoblade was the most successful of the Operation Rainfall games and the one who was pushed the most by fans at the time (if those Amazon preorders are anything to go by). You are reversing cause and effect.

 

[chocolatejr9]

No chance. Xenoblade was the most successful of the Operation Rainfall games and the one who was pushed the most by fans at the time (if those Amazon preorders are anything to go by). You are reversing cause and effect.

Oh, sorry about that. I didn't realize Xenoblade was always the main focus (I thought it was equally split between the three). Still, getting into Smash really helped in the long run, if you ask me.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Welp it’s been confirmed Season 2 will be the last wave of DLC. This is Elma’s Make or Break moment...

 

[RebelMaren]

I don't really feel like Sakurai did say this would be the last wave. He just said no plans past this pass. That's to be expected, they don't have anywhere near complete sales data on this set of characters to make a judgement about the games future. Considering he seems to be content to continue on Smash if there is demand, I believe the sales of the pass and these 1st few characters will determine the games future moving forward, as it was with the 1st pass. For now though it's worth assuming this is it, but he certainly hasn't said it is, just no plans. Standard practice either way.

I suspect that any decisions will be made mid pass. If they choose not to continue they'll start moving devs off of Smash and we'll see the pass ending at the end of 2021, if they choose to continue, the current pace will probably be maintained with a new pass released in the 1st half of 2021. Personally I'm choosing not to expect annything beyond these characters but I have my doubts that the demand won't be there in a year or 2's time. So many fighting games are getting to a 3rd pass or beyond these days.

I'm sure people are gonna think I'm a little too hopefull here but honestly I'm just kinda bothered that I keep seeing the collumn interpreted as a 3rd pass disconfirmed when it's really just him managing our expectations.

 

[SilverSoul24]

I'm sure people are gonna think I'm a little too hopefull here but honestly I'm just kinda bothered that I keep seeing the collumn interpreted as a 3rd pass disconfirmed when it's really just him managing our expectations.

I wanted to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. I'm sure Pass 2 will sell well enough to warrant a third. I know that a lot of people, myself included, are just waiting for the next fighter announcement before buying it. I would feel terrible for Sakurai, though, having dedicated basically the last decade of his life to Smash Bros. Half of me is hoping Pass 2 is indeed the end just for his sake, though the other half still selfishly wants to see how far this hype train can go.

 

[RebelMaren]

I can never tell is Sakurai is suffering or living his best life making Smash, I trust him to make the best decision for his own welfare.

 

[Pinguino21v]

I would feel terrible for Sakurai, though, having dedicated basically the last decade of his life to Smash Bros. Half of me is hoping Pass 2 is indeed the end just for his sake, though the other half still selfishly wants to see how far this hype train can go.

It's the perfect time to train someone else for the future: the base game is done, you only need to focus on characters one at a time. Why not a 3rd pass done by the successor of Sakurai?

 

[jamesster445]

Probably a little of both. He gets the opportunity to work with so many worlds and IPs that he himself was a fan of. On the other hand it's still a full time job in Japan which averages around 80 hours a week, probably more.

I can never tell is Sakurai is suffering or living his best life making Smash, I trust him to make the best decision for his own welfare.

 

[PSIGuy]

A bit earlier in the month there was a Japanese Twitter hashtag where artists posted art of lesser appreciated elements of Xenoblade X - namely, the wildlife, the urban locations and the NPCs.
Here's the hashtag and here's the account that organizes it.
And a few of my favorite pieces so far;

Erio in both her guises

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The ever majestic saltat

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Rie Sonomura]

A bit earlier in the month there was a Japanese Twitter hashtag where artists posted art of lesser appreciated elements of Xenoblade X - namely, the wildlife, the urban locations and the NPCs.
Here's the hashtag and here's the account that organizes it.
And a few of my favorite pieces so far;

Erio... Erio... who was she again?

 

[PSIGuy]

The Delfinian who took the place of a woman named Suriella who didn't survive the crash.

 

[Icana]

After Byleth, I think the trends point more favorably to Cross getting into Smash over Elma. Edelgard was the favorite on these boards afterall, but no dice there. Granted, I feel if any X character would make it into Smash, they'd have been in right now. What really irks me though is the lack of music. Can't help but wonder if there is any legal tie ups with Sawano on that, or if Sakurai just thinks X's OST wouldn't be a good fit for his game (which would be odd considering some of the Metal Gear Solid song choices, among others). Could be that Sakurai doesn't have much self interest in X, and it'll be up to Nintendo to propose the idea on this second go around. Guess we'll see.

Nintendo proposing Joker and Terry kinda baffles me though. It sounds more like fanboys within Nintendo hoping to score their favorites in there, than any cross promotions being planned. Or maybe it's just their way of asking Atlus/SNK to put Persona 5 and the next KoF on Switch. lol

 

[Rie Sonomura]

After Byleth, I think the trends point more favorably to Cross getting into Smash over Elma. Edelgard was the favorite on these boards afterall, but no dice there. Granted, I feel if any X character would make it into Smash, they'd have been in right now. What really irks me though is the lack of music. Can't help but wonder if there is any legal tie ups with Sawano on that, or if Sakurai just thinks X's OST wouldn't be a good fit for his game (which would be odd considering some of the Metal Gear Solid song choices, among others). Could be that Sakurai doesn't have much self interest in X, and it'll be up to Nintendo to propose the idea on this second go around. Guess we'll see.

Nintendo proposing Joker and Terry kinda baffles me though. It sounds more like fanboys within Nintendo hoping to score their favorites in there, than any cross promotions being planned. Or maybe it's just their way of asking Atlus/SNK to put Persona 5 and the next KoF on Switch. lol

see, I've got some issues with that idea.

First off, it wasn't Cross who appeared in Xenoblade 2 as the X representative, but Elma. Cross is also... WAY too customizeable unlike Robin/Corrin/Byleth to the point they can mix and match any weapon set, and it's not really comparable to Inkling. Most of all, Byleth and Corrin are the focus of their stories (and Robin, at least in the latter half of Awakening). Cross just takes a backseat to Elma 99% of the time, AND CROSS ISN'T EVEN SHOWN IN THE ENDING CUTSCENES AFTER THE SETTING CHANGES FROM THE [FINAL BOSS LOCATION REDACTED]. Every recruitable BLADE sans Lao is shown, with Elma at the very end. No Cross.

Spoiler

there's also the post credits where Elma's the one uncovering the truth about the white whale, and Lao washes up on that mysterious beach. STILL NO CROSS ANYWHERE IN SIGHT.

 

[chocolatejr9]

see, I've got some issues with that idea.

First off, it wasn't Cross who appeared in Xenoblade 2 as the X representative, but Elma. Cross is also... WAY too customizeable unlike Robin/Corrin/Byleth to the point they can mix and match any weapon set, and it's not really comparable to Inkling. Most of all, Byleth and Corrin are the focus of their stories (and Robin, at least in the latter half of Awakening). Cross just takes a backseat to Elma 99% of the time, AND CROSS ISN'T EVEN SHOWN IN THE ENDING CUTSCENES AFTER THE SETTING CHANGES FROM THE [FINAL BOSS LOCATION REDACTED]. Every recruitable BLADE sans Lao is shown, with Elma at the very end. No Cross.

Spoiler

there's also the post credits where Elma's the one uncovering the truth about the white whale, and Lao washes up on that mysterious beach. STILL NO CROSS ANYWHERE IN SIGHT.

You could say they were... CROSSED out of the story?

I'm not good at this, okay!?!

 

[PSIGuy]

Reminder that Cross is the only Xenoblade character not already Spirited.

I also think Cross is more likely than Elma but neither of them are very likely at this point at all. Nintendo have zero incentive and desire to push Xenoblade X and there's no reason to assume this season pass will be much different than the last. Blame Monolith Soft's development cycle timing, I guess. Or their stubbon refusal to print off money with a gacha game like Nintendo's golden boy is doing.

 

[RebelMaren]

Yeah people complain about the Fire Emblem avatar character's not having personality, but they at least have a canon set of abilities that set them apart; Robin the tactician who mixes swordplay with magic, Corrin, a half dragon who can transform their body and Byleth, with a broad knowledge base of weapon arts and access to a whip sword. Cross on the other hand is just so broad I find it hard to imagine narrowing that down to a character. Trailers go out of their way to show a variety of designs for Cross, whereas you constantly see the same designs for Robin and Corrin, and Byleth doesn't even get the option to be customised.

As for moveset Cross just has everything... It's alot more flexibility and that's to their credit, but ultimately it's not going to be anybody's Cross, just some potential version of the character only a few people have really seen before. Elma would be everyones Elma, same weapons, same skills. Same as XCX and same as XC2.

But hey, if Elma gets in, I'll be Elma when I play. If Cross gets in, I guess I'll be pretty cross.

 

[SilverSoul24]

Yeah people complain about the Fire Emblem avatar character's not having personality, but they at least have a canon set of abilities that set them apart; Robin the tactician who mixes swordplay with magic, Corrin, a half dragon who can transform their body and Byleth, with a broad knowledge base of weapon arts and access to a whip sword. Cross on the other hand is just so broad I find it hard to imagine narrowing that down to a character. Trailers go out of their way to show a variety of designs for Cross, whereas you constantly see the same designs for Robin and Corrin, and Byleth doesn't even get the option to be customised.

As for moveset Cross just has everything... It's alot more flexibility and that's to their credit, but ultimately it's not going to be anybody's Cross, just some potential version of the character only a few people have really seen before. Elma would be everyones Elma, same weapons, same skills. Same as XCX and same as XC2.

But hey, if Elma gets in, I'll be Elma when I play. If Cross gets in, I guess I'll be pretty cross.

See, if custom specials were still a thing in Ultimate, I could actually get behind Cross. A Xenoblade X-themed Palutena with a variety of weapons and skins to customize to your liking is a legitimately neat concept for a fighter. It's just a few years too late, sadly. Since that's no longer an option, Cross would likely end up to be a pretty bland choice, and definitely my least-wanted Xenoblade newcomer. Like many of you, I'm absolutely over blank slate avatars being playable in Smash. I gravitate toward RPG characters like Shulk and Rex because they're fully realized people for me to follow and see grow. If we're getting anyone from X, I would prefer it to be a pick within a similar vein of characters, and Elma is easily the best choice.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hmm, those are all fantastic songs, and I'm absolutely biased but I would have to go with The Decision. Purely for the hype that it represents.

In other news, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition has Been rated in South Korea. Now, I know this doesn't guarantee an imminent release, but between this and that Dutch site listing this title for May, signs seem to point to a late spring/early summer release window. Whenever the next general Nintendo Direct is happening, we're sure to get some info on what new content this remaster is bringing to the table. Here's hoping for KOS-MOS making an appearance somewhere in the game,

Maybe Elma could appear in XCDE too...? I’m def counting on XCDE info next week

what if they also reveal FP6 and... its Elma... with a bundled Fiora echo...?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Maybe Elma could appear in XCDE too...? I’m def counting on XCDE info next week

what if they also reveal FP6 and... its Elma... with a bundled Fiora echo...?

Assuming Nintendo IS doing a General Direct this month, it would probably have to be before PAX, so that they can show off said games. Then again, everybody seems to be pulling out due to the coronavirus, so what do I know?

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

So I flipped a coin to decide between posting this here or the KOS support.

I think we are gonna see a double Monolith Soft showing at the next Direct.
The Xenoblade 1 Remake and their new IP.

I'm looking at this from Wikipedia but it does seem like there are four things they are working on based on looking at the job listing thing.
Xenoblade 1 Remake
Assisting Breath of the Wild 2
"Fantasy Action Game."
Whatever the Xenoblade Team is working on. Don't even know if it's fully Monolith Soft working on the remake.

 

[SilverSoul24]

So I flipped a coin to decide between posting this here or the KOS support.

I think we are gonna see a double Monolith Soft showing at the next Direct.
The Xenoblade 1 Remake and their new IP.

I'm looking at this from Wikipedia but it does seem like there are four things they are working on based on looking at the job listing thing.
Xenoblade 1 Remake
Assisting Breath of the Wild 2
"Fantasy Action Game."
Whatever the Xenoblade Team is working on. Don't even know if it's fully Monolith Soft working on the remake.

If we don't get another Xeno rep, I would love to see someone from Monolith Soft's new IP. If he/she has a unique enough moveset, they could generate enough excitement to offset the toxic fanboys who would inevitably rage at them like they did with Byleth.

 

[Wisehunter]

So, on the thing about Elma as the one in XC2 expansion rather than Cross, I am not sure that can be used to point the same would happen in smash.

The thing is, Cross would not work in any way in Xenoblade 2 expansion because he/she would need to have loads of text boxes of dialogue with the rest of xeno chars, specific defined dialogues, with defined personality, all that going against what cross is. He/She would also have to have proper long dubbed dialog scenes much like Elma and the other guest chars had, which means he/she would have a specific voice, something that in reality cross does not have. Heck, he/she would even have to have a defined gender.

On smash, a fighting game, with no story for the DLC chars, no proper character interactions, etc, cross can be done closer to what cross actually was (not perfectly, I know, like many said, Cross is too broad even for smash, but still).

To sum up, there is really no way Cross would work in Xenoblade 2 expansion, they had to go with Elma, but there is ways to make cross work in smash (not perfect but certainly more precise than him if put in Xenoblade 2 expansion).

But to be clear, I would much prefer Elma over cross in smash, I am justing saying that, even though we know Monolith holds Elma with high regards, cross could be the one picked for smash. And it is really odd he/she does not have a spirit.

 

[RebelMaren]

The thing people forget about spirits is that they don't just represent something from another game, they are something in Smash. A battle, a powerup, a collectible. It's worth considering that they're may not be a Cross spirit (or any missing spirit) because the team simply couldn't come up with a good battle, unlock challenge or recipe for them. Cross' broad skill pool would make him a challenge to design an interesting battle for, honestly the best I got is a Villager or Mii Fighter with a Giant ROB.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I really do feel Cross isn't comparable to Robin, Corrin and Byleth. in terms of an avatar he's closer to Villager, and even villager is more defined with a single outlandish skillset to draw from.

If they really, REALLY want to do Cross right, Make them like a Mii Fighter with custom designs and moves. I really doubt they'd do that though.

 

[Wisehunter]

I agree it would be a big mistake from smash team, to get Cross, when they could have Elma.

Now, on the lastest new on the thing they decided to do for 1, it will still be rated 12 uh. I recal a Takahashi interview where it was stated they would like to push it and do highrer rated games, so strikes me as odd that they will keep the 12 rating for 1, where there is scenes in the game that would benefit of having the freedom to be a bit more graphic.

But hey, maybe they will leave the X series as the 16, maybe even 18+, and leave the pure numbered ones as the "more friendly" (Like Rex being stabbed through or Vandham piercing himself yet no wound or blood to be seem). No complains from me if they make the X saga as the one to go further in the rating, XD.

 

[Jocario Zero]

Maybe Elma could appear in XCDE too...? I’m def counting on XCDE info next week

what if they also reveal FP6 and... its Elma... with a bundled Fiora echo...?

You really want that Fiora-Echo to happen, huh?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You really want that Fiora-Echo to happen, huh?

i have a somewhat crazy theory

Sakurai only said no echoes for pass 1. Didn't confirm or deny for pass 2. 6 spaces in what is supposedly the final pass. However, 4 more empty WoL character slots would remain after that

so... choose 4 fighters in that pass to have an echo included in them? This pass only, not previous DLC or base (so no Impa as a Sheik echo, Kasumi as a Joker echo etc). Octoling's only hope is Semi-clone like Wolf or Lucas (which im kinda counting on)

 

[Lamperouge]

You really want that Fiora-Echo to happen, huh?

I don't think she's similar enough to Elma for it to really work beyond the dual swords, TBH.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't think she's similar enough to Elma for it to really work beyond the dual swords, TBH.

Ken/Chrom approach with some different moves?

 

[Deleted member]

Since you are all on the endgame, and that I'm still here trying to invest in Xenoblade, you have my word. Add me in.

"My swordmanship is as good-looking as I am."

 

[chocolatejr9]

Since you are all on the endgame, and that I'm still here trying to invest in Xenoblade, you have my word. Add me in.

"My swordmanship is as good-looking as I am."

Was that line said by a female character, perhaps? I feel like that sort of thing would be appropriate for you, Madame...

 

[Deleted member]

Was that line said by a female character, perhaps? I feel like that sort of thing would be appropriate for you, Madame...

Sadly nope, the line is from a male, but the character is from a game I like so...

 

[RebelMaren]

The Fiora model in game looks great btw, Even if Elma didn't get an echo of her I bet there'd be mods made. As for their moveset working, they may well design between them, like how Simon has some stuff only Richter did in the games. Some moves that feel more Elma, some more Fiora. Besides, if they ever do DLC Echos (Which I won't rule out personally) I wouldn't be at all surprised if they differentiated themselves from their base fighters more than the ones at the launch of the game.

 

[PSIGuy]

If you transplanted the drones Fiora has to work like Elma's dual guns (or like XCX Psycho Launchers) it could work but that would be a lot of creative license and effort for what's meant to be a glorified model swap.

 

[RebelMaren]

I'm not even sure what Echo Fighters ARE supposed to be though. I feel like the reason for the label isn't so much to say it's a glorified skin or a character with adjusted moveset/parameters than it just being a lower effort character who doesn't take up as much development resources. I think if Dr. Mario were made today they'd call him an Echo.

At any rate I think the logic for Fiora being an echo (or even vice versa) is that theres some divide between the Xenoblade and Xenoblade X fanbases, as seen in the regional sales data and sadly often on forum posts. The 2 together would be like a bitter pill and a spoon full of sugar together. Or 2 spoons of sugar for some like me... Or a big bottle of anime swordsman for others.

 

[Jocario Zero]

I don't think she's similar enough to Elma for it to really work beyond the dual swords, TBH.

I agree with that. Basic moves like tilts or smash attacks could maybe work, but special moves? I have a hard time seeing this.
For me Elma is more on the acrobatic side and she moves a lot in some of her moves (Shadowstrike, Sliding Slinger) while Fiora doesn't really.
If i'm not mistaken, her moves are more on the slower but powerful side (i mean, she can work as a tank in Xenoblade1).

And then there are the guns...yes, Fiora has the drones, but they do not work like Elmas guns. Just compare how they use them.
And if Fiora is an echo of Elma, but they give her different moves...than what's the point of making her an echo to begin with?

Like i said once: I'm not completely against the idea of Fiora as Elmas Echo-Fighter. But i have a hard time seeing it. If it happens and i see it
in action, i could chance my mind. But until then, i'd prefer her being her own character (but i respect it, if other feel different about it).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

On the topic of worrying about a Xenoblade X Definitive Edition and how it’ll handle the second screen... looks like TMS FE Encore found the solution

here’s hoping that game walked so that XCXDE will run

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

On the topic of worrying about a Xenoblade X Definitive Edition and how it’ll handle the second screen... looks like TMS FE Encore found the solution

here’s hoping that game walked so that XCXDE will run

Admittedly, it is a little awkward (I keep forgetting that's not the Pause button), but it DOES get the job done, at least.

Also, I'm gonna use this opportunity to encourage you guys to play TMS. It's actually really good.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I’m still salty that we didn’t get any XCX content side from Spirits. I can stomach not getting Elma and a stage but music? I mean c’mon. It’s perfect for Smash. That really hit hard.

 

[PSIGuy]

There aren't really any convincing reasons for it other than "the Smash team didn't care", either. XB2 used X music just fine, and even had more X songs than 1 songs despite having 1's composers onboard. The sound team has their own tastes so some franchises get the royal treatment and others have a single composer to thank for anything they got. Like Codename Steam, which ekes out a single remix by its original composer and every other track from it was reappropriated for FE remixes.

It sucks, and I don't like the knock-on effect of "people in Japan don't think it matters, so people overseas don't think it matters, so it doesn't matter" much either.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m still salty that we didn’t get any XCX content side from Spirits. I can stomach not getting Elma and a stage but music? I mean c’mon. It’s perfect for Smash. That really hit hard.

all the more reason I'm glad season 2 has a stage and music with each fighter too. Tbh I'm glad Elma wasn't the bonus fighter that PP was - it would mean no stage or music