Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

[harukaamami]

I'm saying that the blog still hasn't uploaded a remix composed by Motoi Sakuraba (not just Golden Sun, but any track he's done for Ultimate). That's the same thing that we point out for Hiroyuki Sawano, is it not? We know both were called on for Ultimate, so there is at least one remix that could be credited to them.

All I'm saying is that the longer we go on without them being acknowledged, the more plausible it is that they're being saved for something related to Golden Sun and Xenoblade X since Sakuraba and Sawano originally composed for those games way back when. Otherwise, it's easy enough to just upload some other remix of theirs since I'm sure they were called on for work on a song of more than one franchise.

I'm sorry, but you're just applying a faulty logic to make it seem as if Isaac was as likely as Elma or as if the music rule was in any way relevant to him. Motoi Sakuraba is a prolific music composer that has worked in a wide variety of games and franchises, he has composed music for most of the games in the Tales of franchise or Dark Souls; not to mention that he was the primary composer for Kid Icarus, which is definitely getting a remix. Hiroyuki Sawano primarly works in anime, and his presence in Smash can only be related to Xenoblade X; either that or he is simply doing a remix for another franchise, which isn't impossible. The same can't be said about Sakuraba and Golden Sun, that's literal reaching, which is something I've seen Isaac supporters doing a lot. I honestly don't get why you even bring up Golden Sun in this thread, his chances are in no way tied to Elma or to the music rule. Using the exact same logic you're using for Isaac, you might as well just say that the lack of Motoi Sakuraba songs increases Lloyd's chances or Solaire's chances or even Viridi's, Medusa's and Hades' chances. In addition, composers don't actually need to remix music for the franchises they've already composed for, so the only real worth of the music rule is discarding games and franchises, not composers!

In summary, the music rule is completely irrelevant to Isaac, and believing otherwise borders on delusion, because:
1. Motoi Sakuraba is a prolific composer that has made music for both franchises that are already in Smash, like Kid Icarus, and franchises with the possibility of getting a newcomer in Ultimate, like Tales of and Dark Souls.
2. Composers won't necessarily compose remixes for the franchises they have already made the music for. So, in the end, the only real worth of the music rule is discarding franchises because franchises won't be repeated when uploading music to the blog. Basically, if you can't be deconfirmed by the music rule, you also get nothing from the music rule.

Sorry, but not everything is a sign pointing to Isaac's inclusion in the game.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I'm saying that the blog still hasn't uploaded a remix composed by Motoi Sakuraba (not just Golden Sun, but any track he's done for Ultimate). That's the same thing that we point out for Hiroyuki Sawano, is it not? We know both were called on for Ultimate, so there is at least one remix that could be credited to them.

All I'm saying is that the longer we go on without them being acknowledged, the more plausible it is that they're being saved for something related to Golden Sun and Xenoblade X since Sakuraba and Sawano originally composed for those games way back when. Otherwise, it's easy enough to just upload some other remix of theirs since I'm sure they were called on for work on a song of more than one franchise.

There is a chance that we could have another Jun Senoue situation on our hands though. I could easily see another composer choosing to rep Xenoblade X or Golden Sun assuming they are in. Its just a possibility that I think we should consider.

Also to H harukaamami , I don't believe ThoughtfulWanderer was making that statement. He was simply stating it slightly supported Isaac's chances, not that it was proof to his inclusion or that it made him as likely as Elma or any other character.

 

[harukaamami]

There is a chance that we could have another Jun Senoue situation on our hands though. I could easily see another composer choosing to rep Xenoblade X or Golden Sun assuming they are in. Its just a possibility that I think we should consider.

Also to H harukaamami , I don't believe ThoughtfulWanderer was making that statement. He was simply stating it slightly supported Isaac's chances, not that it was proof to his inclusion or that it made him as likely as Elma or any other character.

I don't think it's even a slight support of Isaac being in the game, though. He is completely unrelated to the music rule because it only applies to franchises already in Smash. There was no reason to bring him up.

 

[RandomAce]

It’s been a long time since I’ve been here...

It’s always nice to the large amount of support Elma has seem to have gotten, even though there seems to be a lot of speculators in the Ultimate Thread that don’t think she’s likely.

I still think she’s in. There’s a lot of evidence going for her, not to mention the fact that Xenoblade doesn’t have ANYTHING shown at all... I think they’re saving it for an Elma reveal.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It’s been a long time since I’ve been here...

It’s always nice to the large amount of support Elma has seem to have gotten, even though there seems to be a lot of speculators in the Ultimate Thread that don’t think she’s likely.

I still think she’s in. There’s a lot of evidence going for her, not to mention the fact that Xenoblade doesn’t have ANYTHING shown at all... I think they’re saving it for an Elma reveal.

They don't even have a blog entry for Shulk yet, not even saying, "Hey, Fiora's a new addition to his Final Smash!" or even the Riki AT entry.

 

[harukaamami]

They don't even have a blog entry for Shulk yet, not even saying, "Hey, Fiora's a new addition to his Final Smash!" or even the Riki AT entry.

Or a memory post advertising Torna in Japan, like they did with WarioWare Gold.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Remember: even if Shulk or Guar Plain is the update for tomorrow, it doesn't mean anything against Elma. In fact even the lack of any of the two doesn't also mean anything for or against her.
The only thing that really matters is content from X. As long as it is kept secret, we are in a good position.

 

[harukaamami]

The only thing that matters is the music, that's why it's called the music rule.

 

[Nonno Umby]

The only thing that matters is the music, that's why it's called the music rule.

True, but at the same time if we see Lyn being announced as an AT, or a Xenoblade X stage without Elma, we should start to worry a little bit, even if there is not a Xenoblade music on the site yet.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I don't think it's even a slight support of Isaac being in the game, though. He is completely unrelated to the music rule because it only applies to franchises already in Smash. There was no reason to bring him up.

But he wasn't making that claim either. He simply stated that if we are to connect the composer Sawano to X then with that mindset we can do the same with Sakuraba. Now I still believe the concept is flawed based on the pretense but it is a logically valid statement to make such a claim assuming the pretense is true, which at the time of the post was.

I personally think it was good to bring Isaac up for that claim because it shows the faulty nature of the initial claim.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The recording session took a day right? It could just be Elma’s victory theme

Or that and a non-Xenoblade remix

 

[Nonno Umby]

The recording session took a day right? It could just be Elma’s victory theme

Or that and a non-Xenoblade remix

Sawano is very fast at recording, I've read that he ususally takes 2/3 days for him in order to record the full soundtrack of an anime, so in a 1 day session he might do quite a lot.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So idk if you guys heard but you know how some people theorized that the mech toy was for a Custom Robo rep?

Turns out, the trademark for the Custom Robo IP has been canceled for two years now, meaning Nintendo no longer owns it and anyone else can come snap it up

Which sucks BIG TIME for CR/Ray Mk 01 fans, but I think it all but confirms the mech model is for Elma now

 

[IronWarrior94]

Hmm, I don't want to soil some of the pieces that could add up to Elma's possible inclusion, but wasn't it specified that the toy mech Sakurai bought was only so he could look at the gun it came with?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hmm, I don't want to soil some of the pieces that could add up to Elma's possible inclusion, but wasn't it specified that the toy mech Sakurai bought was only so he could look at the gun it came with?

I don’t know, but the toy could be a reference for Elma’s final smash if it involves a Skell.

Some people say the gun is a reference for Mach Rider, but I doubt it...

 

[AugustusB]

So I thought about it a bit...But may I be added on the support list? Xenoblade Chronicles is one of my favorite series to date. Actually, my first introduction to Monolith's work was Xenosaga and I LOVED that series.

I had to go back a play a bit of XCX to refresh myself and couldn't really put it down. The exploration, the little qips but above all else the characters were beautifully written. Though I think it ended suddenly, it was still a great game.

Elma would be a welcoming addition to the Smash team.

 

[Aetheri]

Found this....

Seems an interesting moveset...

 

[ReeseBalaski]

Hello! Just let it be known that I will always be on Team Elma.

IMO, it's too strange that not much regarding Xenoblade has been shown yet. Hopefully she'll get in.

 

[Luviant X]

The thing with the figure is that Sakurai uses them to test proportions and animations.
Here is how he used them in Brawl

Spoiler

View attachment 165483
View attachment 165484

Now let's take a lok at the figure and its gun:
View attachment 165486
It's clearly a rifle, not a normak gun since it is longer, and not a sniper rifle since it isn't used on the shoulder. So that should exclude the theiry about the Splat Charger, since not only it looks different, but this figure gun can't be held as the Splat Charger, making it useless as a reference for animations

Spoiler

View attachment 165487
Also if he needed this kind of rifle he would have bought a completely different figures since there are several with this kind of rifles, like this one
View attachment 165489

And for the staff, not only that figure isn't a functionak reference since it is too short, but Sakurai coukd easely re-use the same figure he used when designing the staff in Uprising or Dark's Pit Final Smash, also he posted a couple years back Dark's Pit figma, which comes with his staff as an accessory, so he woukdn't need to buy a separate figure just for that.

But if we look at that rifle, it is longer than a regular gun but shorter than a sniper rifle or Kid Icarus's staff. Also since he needed just the gun it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he needed a 2nd rifle like that to study the mivements, animations and taunts of a character who wields 2 longer than usual guns similar to that one. Who does that remind you off?
View attachment 165491[/spoiler][/spoiler]

*Frames this post on my wall*

And can anyone explain to me what's the music theory?

 

[Nonno Umby]

*Frames this post on my wall*

And can anyone explain to me what's the music theory?

The music theory is based on a pattern that so far has yet to be broken in the music section of the website, which is:
1) No series will have more than 1 song
2) Series with a unique newcomer are going to be added after said newcomer is announced.

In particular people have noticed how Brinstar Depths was added the same day Ridley was revealed, the following week we got a Splatoon remix for Inkling.
then Bloody Tears/Monster Dance the same day as Simon Belmont, with Gang Plank Galleon the following week for King K. Rool, and the one following that had Gear Up For... for Chrom (echo fighters so far are a little more random about music, because while Chrom respected the pattern we just got a Mario song after several weeks after Daisy was revealed, and Dark Samus already got a Metroid song on the site thanks to Ridley).
This theory was basically confirmed true when they delayed the Nintendo Direct, since people noticed on the code of the site that the Pikmin song published the week of the postponed Direct was planned for the following one, meaning that they have delayed the Animal Crossing remix until Isabelle was revealed.
So as long as a Xenoblade song isn't featured on the site we are in a good position.


Altough this theory is working, I personally don't belive it actually can deconfirm characters with songs already features, because they clearly wanted to focus on playable series rather than generic ones (like the Snipperclips songs etc etc) and it might be that they planned the final Direct with its final batch of newcomers close to release, too close for featuring a song for everyone.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Hmm, I don't want to soil some of the pieces that could add up to Elma's possible inclusion, but wasn't it specified that the toy mech Sakurai bought was only so he could look at the gun it came with?

It is, it is just that when you consider what it could possibly be for, a playable Elma just makes sense. From my personal experience in animation, you typically don't buy models for modeling pieces unless you know you'll be using it for multiple elaborate animations. This is because it can be harder to visualize different character states in relation to said animations. Having a model helps get an idea for how the character or object will translate from an idle state to the desired action state. For say an assist trophy or plain item, the animation techniques are far more limited making models less necessary.

Thus based on this we can assume that the object is more than likely being used for a playable character or at the very least a boss. Of all the possible playable characters, Elma is the only character who wields something similiar to the toy mech weapon that isn't a long shot addition to the game. Thus unless a gunslinger with a similar weapon appears as a boss or playable character, I believe it is safe to assume that the gun is evidence supporting Elma's addition.

Of course this is only one piece of evidence. What makes Elma a strong contender is a number of supporting factors that help strengthen her claim. This is why I think Elma is the second most likely character to appear. There is just a number of accumulative small factors that seem to support her potential addition. Scouting the other threads, I haven't seen anything nearly as close to supporting evidence with the exception of Geno and maaaaybe Shantae. Of course supporting evidence isn't conclusive evidence so in that regard, every character in these support boards is on a level playing field. However it definitly doesn't hurt to have things to support our claim.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Let’s not forget that Bill Trinen said in that July interview, “...Cloud, Bayonetta, the Xenoblade characters...”

He was referring to a playable character context specifically, and while there are some NPC Xenoblade characters, it’s obvious he wasn’t referring to those

And I doubt he merely forgot Shulk’s name

 

[Nonno Umby]

So I finally finished the list with all the possible points towards Elma. Feel free to copy/paste it wherever you like, or tell me if I missed anything!


1) The Robot figure
Near the end of 2016, Sakurai revealed that he bought a mecha action figure because he wanted to use the gun it came attached with as a reference. Here is said figure: http://blogs-images.forbes.com/olliebarder/files/2017/01/robot_damashii_vifam.jpg

Now that we know that the project Sakurai was working in 2016 was Smash Bros Ultimate, there have been some theories about this figure. One is that the rifle was used for a Splat Charger for an initial moveset for Inkling, but it is unlikely due to the fact that the figure’s gun isn’t a sniper rifle, so it wouldn’t be a good reference for animations (especially since there are other figures with actual sniper rifles, like this one: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/8ZsAAOSwOVpXVQx3/s-l640.jpg)

Another theory is that he used that for the Staff item, but again the figure’s gun is way shorter than it, and Sakurai already had access to whatever reference material he used when designing the Staff in Kid Icarus: Uprising or Dark Pit’s Final Smash.


What that gun resembles, at least closely enough, is Elma’s guns, since they are longer than usual pistols like Fox’s Blaster or Bayonetta’s revolvers, but it is also shorter than a sniper rifle. Also it’s not impossible to say that Sakurai needed to buy a figure it’s because he needed a second gun like this in order to study the animations for a character who whields two longer than usual guns, like Elma.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/bf/af/b7bfaf54b46fbb387eb578ad8cf402cd.png


2) Bill Trinen’s slip up

During an interview with IGN ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thehPvqow1I ), Bill Trinen stated that newer player have more affinity with newer characters, “like Cloud, like Bayonetta, like the Xenoblade characters”. This could be a slip up, but it’s quite interesting since it came from one of the few people who are working in the localization of Smash Ultimate (in fact he was the first one to confirm the Stage Hazard Toggle), so he knows the full roster, and also being a huge Smash/Nintendo fan he wouldn’t simply forget or not know who Shulk is.


3) Hiroyuki Sawano’s secret project

Back in March, Hiroyuki Sawano, the famous musician who composed the soundtrack for many famous anime like Attack of Titan and Gundam, revealed that he did a 1 day session of recording for a secret project. That’s around the same time Yoko Shimomura recorded her songs for Smash Ultimate, which she also presented as a secret project.

Why is this relevant? Sawano has composed the soundtrack for only a couple of games, and the most notable is Xenoblade Chronicles X. And it’s not a secret that Sakurai likes to call the original composers for the games he includes in Smash.

For more details check this tread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_...ikely_is_it_for_xenobladex_representation_in/


4) Caitlin Glass vagueness

Caitlin Glass, Elma’s English VA, has been quite vague about her being in Smash or not, unlike Pyra’s VA who stated that she was not involved with it. Catlin has also said that Elma is her most wanted newcomer for Smash Ultimate, all while also avoiding to answer any question about her involvement with it, usually just saying “it would be rad!”, which wouldn’t break a NDA-


5) Possible tease in XC2?

Elma was announced as a DLC Blade for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 with a special trailer during Gamescom. It is noticeable that they really gave the spotlight to her by letting her having her trailer separated from the rest of the content in update that she came with (something that Nintendo didn’t do with Shulk and Fiora).

Once she is met in the game, during a conversation a Nopon states “It is dream of everyone to see Shulk and Elma in one place together!” (https://i.redd.it/g7vk7vom85i11.jpg )

Notice how he specifically mentions only Shulk and Elma, but not Rex, KOS-MOS or T-elos, the other two Xeno series main characters in the game. Also we have seen a similar tease for Rodin in the re-release of Bayonetta 2 for Switch, and surely at Monolith Soft. they are ware if Elma is in the game or not.


6) No XCX content so far

It is undeniable that Xenoblade Chronicles X is one of the biggest and most important games Nintendo produced during the Wii U life cycle, and we have also seen with the Mario Odyssey and Zelda BotW stages, the Yoshi’s Crafter World skin, the presence of Nikki and the Badge Arcade Bunny as AT and with the inclusions of Isabelle and Inkling that Sakurai isn’t ignoring newer games to go just with the Ballot, so it is extremely unlikely that he is going to ignore XCX, and the fact that not a single thing from that game has been shown is suspicious to say the least.


7) Perfect timing with the project plan

Sakurai has revealed that the first project plan for Smash Bros Ultimate was done in December 2015, which is the same month Xenoblade Chronicles X released in the West (in Japan it was released in April), and it is quite likely that Elma was the second pick for the promotional DLC spot that went to Corrin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpbLeEvIS4), so her being in Sakurai’s head around the same time her game released all while a new Smash game was planned surely helps her chances, especially since XC2 was in too early development in development for being used instead.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

nice compilation. Any chance we can get this on the first page to reference people to in the future?

 

[Bobthealligator]

While Elma is my most wanted, I don't think she stands a chance at all. There is too much evidence against her inclusion and not enough evidence for. The Gun Sakurai bought is not for Elma. The Gun is too big to be used for Elma's animations and Sakurai would need two of them to be used for this purpose. The more likely explanation is that he is using it to design the poses characters use while holding the Super Scope. The Box Theory go against her inclusion, simply because if there is only one newcomer left, Pokemon gets priority over Xenoblade. The music theory doesn't help her much, the music theory doesn't increase a character's chances but instead decreases them. Just because there is no Xenoblade music yet doesn't mean they're saving it for Elma's reveal. They're may not even be a Xenoblade remix, the composer you mentioned is working on Smash, very few of the remixes were composed by composers who had previously worked on the series. If they had then they would be identical to the original. Even if Elma is in, that composer probably didn't work on the song that accompanies her. Also all of the music blog updates so far (besides Snipperclips) have come from much more popular franchises than Xenoblade. A lot of people say that the DLC in Xenoblade 2 alludes to her being in Smash. And this is true, it does, however (And I should probably bring this up in Shantae's thread too due to the jammies DLC argument) this is very similar to the hints in Bayonetta 2's Switch release. So if anything this increases Elma's chances of being an Assist Trophy over a playable character. However, a lot of people think Elma's chances are 'now or never' but Xenoblade X ends with many untied plot strings, which are definately meant to set up for a sequel. So don't give up yet.
Also add me to the supporters list.

 

[Luviant X]

While Elma is my most wanted, I don't think she stands a chance at all. There is too much evidence against her inclusion and not enough evidence for. The Gun Sakurai bought is not for Elma. The Gun is too big to be used for Elma's animations and Sakurai would need two of them to be used for this purpose. The more likely explanation is that he is using it to design the poses characters use while holding the Super Scope. The Box Theory go against her inclusion, simply because if there is only one newcomer left, Pokemon gets priority over Xenoblade. The music theory doesn't help her much, the music theory doesn't increase a character's chances but instead decreases them. Just because there is no Xenoblade music yet doesn't mean they're saving it for Elma's reveal. They're may not even be a Xenoblade remix, the composer you mentioned is working on Smash, very few of the remixes were composed by composers who had previously worked on the series. If they had then they would be identical to the original. Even if Elma is in, that composer probably didn't work on the song that accompanies her. Also all of the music blog updates so far (besides Snipperclips) have come from much more popular franchises than Xenoblade. A lot of people say that the DLC in Xenoblade 2 alludes to her being in Smash. And this is true, it does, however (And I should probably bring this up in Shantae's thread too due to the jammies DLC argument) this is very similar to the hints in Bayonetta 2's Switch release. So if anything this increases Elma's chances of being an Assist Trophy over a playable character. However, a lot of people think Elma's chances are 'now or never' but Xenoblade X ends with many untied plot strings, which are definately meant to set up for a sequel. So don't give up yet.
Also add me to the supporters list.

You make a lot of good points, but I think there's enough evidence to say she has a chance.

1) As Nonno Umby mentioned, the fact Xenoblade X released before Ultimate began development and that Sakurai is a fan of Xenoblade makes it likely Elma was in consideration for the game. X was one of the few notable games for the Wii U, along with Splatoon, which was released in the same year. Sakurai has chosen many characters because of relevance in the past, and Elma has that going for her (and moveset potential).

2) The box theory could be right, but I'm doubtful because of several reasons. a) The game doesn't release for a near three months, and it is well documented that box art has often served as placeholders and can be changed/updated. b) The theory suggests two characters are left, but this goes against Vergeben's leaks. Verge says the sources he trusts have told him there will be three more characters, not two. And Verge doesn't even know the whole roster or claim to, having been unaware of KKR and all the echoes so far, which suggests there could be more than the three Verge knows about.

Also, there is the possibility a Pokemon Direct for the Let's Go games that could debunk the Box theory. With those games coming out so close to Ultimate, and with most likely Incineroar being the next newcomer, there's a possibility Incineroar could be revealed in a Pokemon Direct next month or in November. If that happens, Sakurai would need another unique newcomer or more to use for the final Smash direct. Just a possibility to consider.

And GameXplain agrees that it's hard to believe there's potentially only one echo left, or two characters total.

3) The argument songs uploaded to the site have mostly been for series more popular than Xenoblade is weak because there's evidence many songs have been saved for reveals since they've been uploading in that pattern.

While I mostly agree on what you said about the gun Sakurai bought and Sawano (there's a chance he has done work on Ultimate, but we don't know if he was just brought in for a remix for another game), I think there's more than enough evidence to believe Elma has a chance.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

While Elma is my most wanted, I don't think she stands a chance at all. There is too much evidence against her inclusion and not enough evidence for. The Gun Sakurai bought is not for Elma. The Gun is too big to be used for Elma's animations and Sakurai would need two of them to be used for this purpose. The more likely explanation is that he is using it to design the poses characters use while holding the Super Scope. The Box Theory go against her inclusion, simply because if there is only one newcomer left, Pokemon gets priority over Xenoblade. The music theory doesn't help her much, the music theory doesn't increase a character's chances but instead decreases them. Just because there is no Xenoblade music yet doesn't mean they're saving it for Elma's reveal. They're may not even be a Xenoblade remix, the composer you mentioned is working on Smash, very few of the remixes were composed by composers who had previously worked on the series. If they had then they would be identical to the original. Even if Elma is in, that composer probably didn't work on the song that accompanies her. Also all of the music blog updates so far (besides Snipperclips) have come from much more popular franchises than Xenoblade. A lot of people say that the DLC in Xenoblade 2 alludes to her being in Smash. And this is true, it does, however (And I should probably bring this up in Shantae's thread too due to the jammies DLC argument) this is very similar to the hints in Bayonetta 2's Switch release. So if anything this increases Elma's chances of being an Assist Trophy over a playable character. However, a lot of people think Elma's chances are 'now or never' but Xenoblade X ends with many untied plot strings, which are definately meant to set up for a sequel. So don't give up yet.
Also add me to the supporters list.

I don't think it's for the super scope, the 2 guns look nothing alike really and it'd be very weird to suddenly need it now when it's been in all 4 smash games already and I don't think it's really worth buying it just for an item, the mech in general has an extremely uncanny resemblance to the skells, and if a skell is really her final smash it would make sense to use it, even if it's just a cutscene fs.

The box theory isn't gospel, it's a mock-up, made by someone who likely doesn't even know the final number, they've been keeping the roster a massive secret and that would be an extremely dumb way to reveal it. It's possible but I don't really believe it.

Sawano is a composer for anime mostly, he's not a game composer and he's done very few video games so it makes zero sense to bring him in to remix a track from a different series, and Xenoblade's soundtrack is so popular you'd think they would've shown it by now if they're not waiting to reveal it alongside a character.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I don't think it's for the super scope, the 2 guns look nothing alike really and it'd be very weird to suddenly need it now when it's been in all 4 smash games already and I don't think it's really worth buying it just for an item, the mech in general has an extremely uncanny resemblance to the skells, and if a skell is really her final smash it would make sense to use it, even if it's just a cutscene fs.

The box theory isn't gospel, it's a mock-up, made by someone who likely doesn't even know the final number, they've been keeping the roster a massive secret and that would be an extremely dumb way to reveal it. It's possible but I don't really believe it.

Sawano is a composer for anime mostly, he's not a game composer and he's done very few video games so it makes zero sense to bring him in to remix a track from a different series, and Xenoblade's soundtrack is so popular you'd think they would've shown it by now if they're not waiting to reveal it alongside a character.

Exactly this.

It makes 0 sense to buy a new figure for reference for something that has been included for 4 games now.

The box theory is just a theory, with more holes than people assume. Especially since no one has yet to respond to me "if there were 5/6 characters left would they have left 5/6 empty slots on a placeholder meant to be revealed to the pubblic?".

And about Sawano, the Xenoblade Medley for Smash For was made by ACE, so Sawano might as well to a X Medley alongside remixes for other series.

 

[ZelDan]

The box theory really needs to die lol. We didn't see all of the box and that design might not even be final.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

That's why I'm hoping for a non Ken echo soon. I'm tired of talking about boxes.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's why I'm hoping for a non Ken echo soon. I'm tired of talking about boxes.

What if a non Incineroar unique as well?

 

[ZelDan]

What if a non Incineroar unique as well?

Well, Incineroar and Ken are from vergeben, not necessarily the box theory.

But yeah, I never really cared about getting a gen VII pokemon rep (or Ken for that matter, but he'd probably be an echo so whatever, I can accept him), or if there had to be a gen VII rep, I always preferred Decidueye over any others since he had my favorite design of the bunch.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

What if a non Incineroar unique as well?

Wouldn't disprove the box theory since they'd just take the final box, we could not be getting a pokemon newcomer for all we know. A non ken echo would mess up the box theory pattern and would effectively deconfirm it

 

[SmashChu]

The thing with the figure is that Sakurai uses them to test proportions and animations.
Here is how he used them in Brawl

Spoiler

View attachment 165483
View attachment 165484

Now let's take a lok at the figure and its gun:
View attachment 165486
It's clearly a rifle, not a normak gun since it is longer, and not a sniper rifle since it isn't used on the shoulder. So that should exclude the theiry about the Splat Charger, since not only it looks different, but this figure gun can't be held as the Splat Charger, making it useless as a reference for animations

Spoiler

View attachment 165487
Also if he needed this kind of rifle he would have bought a completely different figures since there are several with this kind of rifles, like this one
View attachment 165489

And for the staff, not only that figure isn't a functionak reference since it is too short, but Sakurai coukd easely re-use the same figure he used when designing the staff in Uprising or Dark's Pit Final Smash, also he posted a couple years back Dark's Pit figma, which comes with his staff as an accessory, so he woukdn't need to buy a separate figure just for that.

But if we look at that rifle, it is longer than a regular gun but shorter than a sniper rifle or Kid Icarus's staff. Also since he needed just the gun it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he needed a 2nd rifle like that to study the mivements, animations and taunts of a character who wields 2 longer than usual guns similar to that one. Who does that remind you off?
View attachment 165491[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Just wanted to respond to the run thing. It doesn't have to be the exact same gun. The inkling hold the run with two hands (one on trigger, the other holds the barrel). Elma uses SMGs which are held with one hand. Its more likely that it was for them than Elma. Also, if you are arguing the length is the issue, Elma's guns are still small compared to a rifle. I feel like this theory is trying to make Elma work for it rather than evidence of her inclusion.

 

[Bobthealligator]

I don't think it's for the super scope, the 2 guns look nothing alike really and it'd be very weird to suddenly need it now when it's been in all 4 smash games already and I don't think it's really worth buying it just for an item, the mech in general has an extremely uncanny resemblance to the skells, and if a skell is really her final smash it would make sense to use it, even if it's just a cutscene fs.

The box theory isn't gospel, it's a mock-up, made by someone who likely doesn't even know the final number, they've been keeping the roster a massive secret and that would be an extremely dumb way to reveal it. It's possible but I don't really believe it.

Sawano is a composer for anime mostly, he's not a game composer and he's done very few video games so it makes zero sense to bring him in to remix a track from a different series, and Xenoblade's soundtrack is so popular you'd think they would've shown it by now if they're not waiting to reveal it alongside a character.

He's not modelling the gun on it, he's using it to work out how the characters look while holding the gun. It actually makes no sense for Sawano to do an X remix, he wrote the original songs so the remixes would not be significantly different.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

He's not modelling the gun on it, he's using it to work out how the characters look while holding the gun. It actually makes no sense for Sawano to do an X remix, he wrote the original songs so the remixes would not be significantly different.

Could be Elma’s victory theme, or a remix for another series, like a Star Fox Sawano remix

 

[aarchak]

Could be Elma’s victory theme, or a remix for another series, like a Star Fox Sawano remix

An anything Sawano Remix sounds like fire. I don't care if he remixes Wii Fit, anything he would do would be awesome.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

He's not modelling the gun on it, he's using it to work out how the characters look while holding the gun. It actually makes no sense for Sawano to do an X remix, he wrote the original songs so the remixes would not be significantly different.

And characters don't hold the super rod the way that gun is held, and the item has been in 4 smash games now, why suddenly buy that for something so unimportant just now?

He could be doing a medley like Chronicles got in smash 4, why would they bring in a mostly anime composer to work on some other random franchise? it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

I'm back! Sorry for the inactivity on my part--I was busy playing Torna ~ The Golden Country. I can now safely post here without fear of spoilers, it's good to be back.

Just want to say thank you Nonno Umby for saving me the trouble of writing all the supporting evidence for Elma. I copied and pasted your post into the OP. You did a fantastic job compiling everything!

On another note, I added 10 more Blade members to the support list. There are now 186 members within our community.

 

[PSIGuy]

It actually makes no sense for Sawano to do an X remix, he wrote the original songs so the remixes would not be significantly different.

We already have a FEH track rearranged by it's original composer, so it's possible.