Edgeguarding Marth

[Kenpachi]

Hey All,

I've seen a few videos of Sheik VS Marth where sheik would step close to the edge and use the light shield. this, when Marth's upb hit it, would cause Sheik and Marth to switch places. Marth then suffers from his upb landing lag and Sheik can have her way with him.

I am wondering a few things:

Does this only work when Marth doesn't sweet spot? Its worked against very good players, so did they make a mistake or is it an aspect of the move?

Is the move as simple as it seems? Does just light sheilding alone cause Sheik to switch places or is there a control stick direction involved? (hold down?)

Is this the prefered method of edgeguarding, or is it situational? If its situational, then what is the situation where this would be the best method?

--

Thats alot of questions, but that comes from the lack of information i've found on this (using a search of the entire forums and then just the sheik forums).

Any information about this would be greatly appreciated, there is an incredible marth here at OSU that i'd like to catch up to.

~Kenpachi

 

[Zankoku]

It's called light-shield edgehogging. You just roll to the very edge and DI down and away from the stage while light-shielding (don't hold the shield after getting hit or you'll go into shield tumble). It's sorta-fancy-ish, and I suppose it leaves you less vulnerable to Fair/SideB hits to force you to roll early from a ledgehog.

Basically, it works because Marth has a slight pause before falling from his Up B, and falls rather slowly. Thus, any character with faster gravity can do this, but it's most applicable to Captain Falcon, Sheik, Falco, and Fox. DIing down and away from the stage somehow makes Marth's Dolphin Slash pull you toward the ledge, at which point you'll slide off and fall, to grab the ledge before Marth does.

 

[soap]

whenever possible i prefer to go out there and back air him as you will kill him for sure

 

[Kenpachi]

thanks for the info! though, if marth is on the way to sweet spotting the edge, will this still work?

 

[Zankoku]

If he grabs the ledge before you do but still hits your light shield in the process, you will simply start falling past the ledge.

 

[balladechina212]

This is the fastest and most effective way to pull off this edgeguard:

Roll towards the edge, and in the process of rolling, press Z in order to light shield and hold your analog stick toward the edge. When you come out of your roll, your light shield will be up and will be tilted towards the stage (which is how this trick works).

 

[knightpraetor]

this doesn't work if the marth sweetspots accurately..so i would rarely use it against a good marth..if you watch pro level matches you rarely see sheik using it..but it does work..marth just needs to be slightly off in his attempt to sweetspot

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Best way to screw marth over is needles, they take away all chance he has of making it back..so throw needles if possible...but if not, edgehogging would work best as even if he makes it on the stage, the lag of his up-b will allow you to f-air him.


The lightshield edgeguard method is just too situational to use consistently and hard to position quickly when the pressure is on, stick to more conventional methods.

 

[Kenpachi]

Awesome! Thanks for all the information guys!

~Kenpachi

 

[Luma]

edgehop to bair, before that needels = win ;-D

 

[Tope]

I want to clear up a couple of things that have been said.


You never hold down in any way when lightshielding or you will just fall off the edge and not grab onto it. Just hold straight back.

Also this stops Marth even when he sweetspots, forcing him to go into the stage, in which case you can stand up and grab him.

This tactic is really not that hard to pull off in a match, it just takes some practice.

 

[JesiahTEG]

this doesn't work if the marth sweetspots accurately..so i would rarely use it against a good marth..if you watch pro level matches you rarely see sheik using it..but it does work..marth just needs to be slightly off in his attempt to sweetspot

uhhh, I thought it worked everytime even if they sweetspot perfectly. There's really nothing Marth can do about it. M2K gets messed up by it all the time, simply for the fact that its inescapable.

 

[Overswarm]

uhhh, I thought it worked everytime even if they sweetspot perfectly. There's really nothing Marth can do about it. M2K gets messed up by it all the time, simply for the fact that its inescapable.

Not true....

look at www.overswarm.com for a Marth video in the next day or two.



But when you are sheik, be aggressive with needle edgeguard. You can jump off the edge, needle, then jump/up+b back to the stage safely if you hit him. If you hit him upon his returning, he is dead for sure.

Needle edgeguard is the first thing on your list. After that, if they are going to come below the stage, use the Marth Killer or edgehog to roll. If they are coming above the stage (so that they could air dodge onto the stage or up+b well above it), you should be able to hit them with a needle or fair. If you cannot for some reason, edgehop b-air.

If you are completely confused as to what to do, do Sheik's up+b trick on the ledge where she goes above the ledge then teleports back onto it. This will hit Marth if he is near the ledge, even if he is up+bing, allowing you to f-air. If he doesn't get hit, you have an opening for a fair.



If you want to be tricky and are at low % and Marth is at 33% or higher, simply sit by the ledge and crouch, holding slightly forward (so that hitting A makes you f-tilt rather than d-tilt). When Marth up+bs, use the forward tilt then forward air. Repeat as necessary.

If Marth somehow grabs the edge (such as via sweetspot), just sit there. If he jumps off and fairs, you are CCing and can f-tilt to f-air him. If he rolls, you can grab him and proceed to combo (or b-throw if he is at higher %). If he gets up, jumps, or tries to air dodge/waveland onto the stage, just f-tilt to forward air.

Tilt camping a returning Marth works with all characters that have tilts with even mediocre knockback. Hell, Fox can CC to shine Marth easily. It is the perfect edgeguard against Marth.

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, i swear i thought i tested perfect sweetspots with marth and sheik didn't reach in time..maybe sheik has to fastfall after she's pushed off and that was mistimed?

edit: ok so it does work..i wonder then, why does marth's LS edgehog on marth not work...they're both semi-floaty..does sheik fall faster?