Echo's anyone?

[KayaMarley]

How many threads can i start with a question? and if you could choose 5 characters to be added as echo's to already existing fighters, who would they be? (to echo they must be from the same series, as is the regular).
No joke characters please!

I'll start it off with my list.

1) Zant as Zelda's Echo. - He would wield his sword, and his moveset would be a mix of Link's attacks and Zelda's attacks. I feel like this could be a lot of fun.

2) Dixie Kong as Diddy's Echo. - would be similar, but instead of diddy's recovery being the jetpack, it would be her hair spin, and could work like King K. Rule's Recovery. probably something other than the peanut popper too. maybe popping bubble gum since she des that sometimes? could work as a short range blast attack type of thing, idk.

3) Shadow as Sonic's Echo. - If any of you have played Smash bros Legacy, then you know what he's about. maybe less OP though? the way he plays in Legacy, his neutral homing attack has multiple attacks that go off right after it lands, which can be a little much. maybe just nerf that a tad and it would be great.

4) Zero as Mega Man's Echo. - I'm not super into mega man so i don't know a ton, but i just think Zero would be a really fun character to play. also would standardly use his sword instead of projectile shots for his basic attacks.

5) Tetra as Toon Link's Echo. - This is just a character I feel that should have been in. Her 's would be the same, while her 's would only slightly change. She would still have the bombs for , but her would change from 's boomerang to 's Fire magic. The arrows would be replaced with the reflector magic that uses. The recovery would be like 's grappling hook, though probably a little slower and with a shorter range.

I think these characters would all be really fun to play as, and I look forward to seeing what all of you think of this.

 

[Planet Cool]

The only echo I really want is Dixie Kong, and I'd be happier if she were a unique fighter. Galacta Knight as a Meta Knight echo could also be cool, though.

2) Dixie Kong as Diddy's Echo. - would be similar, but instead of diddy's recovery being the jetpack, it would be her hair spin, and could work like King K. Rule's Recovery. probably something other than the peanut popper too. maybe popping bubble gum since she des that sometimes? could work as a short range blast attack type of thing, idk.

Dixie gets a gumball popgun in Tropical Freeze, so that could be her neutral special. I also think her up special should be a barrel cannon, since everything she does with her hair (double jumping, floating, etc) could be easily mapped to her jump.

 

[KayaMarley]

The only echo I really want is Dixie Kong, and I'd be happier if she were a unique fighter. Galacta Knight as a Meta Knight echo could also be cool, though.



Dixie gets a gumball popgun in Tropical Freeze, so that could be her neutral special. I also think her up special should be a barrel cannon, since everything she does with her hair (double jumping, floating, etc) could be easily mapped to her jump.

Oh cool, I didn't know dixie kong had that (guess i should play more of that game, lol). your recovery idea for her is way better. it would fit as a diddy echo way better too, since it would pretty much be the same, just a lot more direct.

as for a Meta knight echo, i always preferred Dark Meta knight, since amazing mirrors was a lot of fun for me. His moveset in Kirby Star Allies is really cool too, and would be lots of fun in smash (though maybe a bit op). at least we get them as Alt skins though! always appreciated that.

 

[Mamboo07]

: King D-Mind
: Galacta or Dark Knight
: Dry Bowser or Midbus
: Gooigi
: Mecha Sonic from S&K or Mighty

 

[Ben Holt]

: Ms. Pac-Man
: Proto Man
: Shadow the Hedgehog
: Zack Fair
: Jeanne
: Dry Bowser
: Gooigi
: Cosmic Mario
: Lubba (Solo Luma but big.)
: Funky Kong
: Dragonite
: Raichu
: Zoroark (No Aura)
: Octoling
: Gooey
: Black Knight
: Ninten
: Alph with Rock Pikmin
: Demise
: Boshi

 

[MAtgSy]

King Hippo=Echo of K. Rool. Both are large, fat, & wear crowns on their heads +K. Rool has a boxing glove attack. Plus, it'd be yet another Captain N alumni in SSB. ^_^

Sami=Snake Echo. Both use military weaponry.

Zack=Cloud Echo

 

[BowserKing]

For echoes

: Dark Bowser (Neutral Special is dark fire breath, side Special is a Boulder Throw and Final Smash is caged energy (Sends opponents into a cage and unleashes an energy attack on them
: Dark Meta Knight (Neutral special reflects projectiles and side special is the extendable sword from Kirby: Star Allies)
: Dixie Kong (Neutral special is the Bubblegum Popgun, Up-Special is the hair propeller, Down Special is the Guitar rumble and Final Smash brings Ellie and Rambi into the battle)
: Shadow (Up Special would be Chaos Control, Down Special is Chaos Counter and Final Smash is Super Shadow)
: Octoling (Side Special and Down Special use different weapons, but I don't know which for now)

I think these would be good echoes

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'd love if they tossed some echoes in as DLC since they'd be easier to balance and would still give us something.

The ones I really want, as unlikely as they are:

• 17e: Midna ()
  
  With the changeover the Zelda series has gotten, it feels wrong to have lost all of the Twilight Princess representation in the cast. Midna in her Twili form, as she was in Hyrule Warriors, isn't Midna's most well-known form, but she did still have a lot of capability there. In that form, she matches proportions pretty well with Zelda, and many of her moves could be simple recolors.
  
  I'd change Zelda's attacks to darkness effect rather than magic or lightning. Nayru's Love would use a twilight texture for the crystal, Din's Fire would become a darkness blast instead of fire, Farore's Wind would change the visuals to be the twilight teleport, and the Phantom summon could be a Darknut or twilight beast. I'd also change her idles and basic animations back to Brawl/SSB4's more dour ones.
  
  
• 38e: Tails ()
  
  I know, there's a more obvious one, but I like Tails more. Especially as he was in Sonic 2, where he played exactly the same as Sonic.
  
  They could go Ken-level for this one, making Tails have higher jumps but a slower speed, or even give him Peach's float as a bonus. Honestly though, I'd just be happy to see him in. Tails in Sonic 2 has pretty well the same moveset and does the same stuff, so it wouldn't be that hard to switch the models.
  
  The major changes here would be that Tails would just need different animations for Sonic's quill moves, like his up throw. That's easily substituted for a tail smack. Otherwise, everything could just be copied and it'd look fine. Give Tails the floats as win poses or taunts, and that's really all I'd need.

 

[Perkilator]

-Ninten (10ε)
-Shadow and/or Knuckles
-Jeanne

 

[Foxy Alopex]

- James McCloud (melee Fox)
- Funky Kong
- Zeraora
- King (Tekken) both are wrestlers
- Ms. Pac-Man

 

[Planet Cool]

Tails as a Sonic echo is a good idea. I like him more than Shadow. But I've gotta say, some of the characters y'all want would be better as Alph-style alts, like Dry Bowser.

King Hippo=Echo of K. Rool. Both are large, fat, & wear crowns on their heads +K. Rool has a boxing glove attack. Plus, it'd be yet another Captain N alumni in SSB. ^_^

Objection! King Hippo's belly is his weak point and K. Rool has super armor there! Although I guess that's easy enough to change.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

- Dixie Kong
- Impa
- Octoling
- Ms. Pac-Man
- Birdo
- Ninten
- Hilda
- Black Shadow
- Jeanne
- Roll
- Protoman
- Viridi
- Medusa
- Jody Summer
- Tom Nook
- Paula
- Kumatora

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

why are so many people requesting Ninten as a Ness echo? he doesn't even learn any offensive PSI. Paula would be a better pick, she has all the same moves as Ness and a more unique personality to work with.

 

[MAtgSy]

Tails as a Sonic echo is a good idea. I like him more than Shadow. But I've gotta say, some of the characters y'all want would be better as Alph-style alts, like Dry Bowser.



Objection! King Hippo's belly is his weak point and K. Rool has super armor there! Although I guess that's easy enough to change.

Easy enough fix.

 

[KayaMarley]

: Ms. Pac-Man
: Proto Man
: Shadow the Hedgehog
: Zack Fair
: Jeanne
: Dry Bowser
: Gooigi
: Cosmic Mario
: Lubba (Solo Luma but big.)
: Funky Kong
: Dragonite
: Raichu
: Zoroark (No Aura)
: Octoling
: Black Knight
: Ninten
: Alph with Rock Pikmin
: Demise
: Boshi

I like the idea of Dry Bowser. I have seen a lot of ideas with him regarding the use of bowser's old melee style, which always sounded really cool to me. i mean that's what Dr. Mario is to mario, so why not? would be really cool!

-Ninten (10ε)
-Shadow and/or Knuckles
-Jeanne

Yeah i was really bummed when knuckles wasn't in as a playable character. He would have felt really unique too. at least he's an Assist though

- James McCloud (melee Fox)
- Funky Kong
- Zeraora
- King (Tekken) both are wrestlers
- Ms. Pac-Man

is Ultimate's Fox not the same one? i thought they were both Fox McCloud, cuz isnt James his father? He doesnt really appear in many things so i just figured it was the normal fox.

Easy enough fix.

I agree with some of what your saying, but i think Dry Bowser is an ehh example, simply because the idea of having a Bowser echo with the original moveset, similar to Dr. Mario having Mario's original set, is a really neat idea. That's kinda why i made this thread too, just to kinda see what people would want, and the different ideas they might have for them. I thought it was silly to do anything with Dry Bowser until i heard that idea, so now im completely for it.

 

[millsfan]

Shadow needs to be his own character, using his chaos abilities (as seen in sonic battle).

 

[KayaMarley]

Shadow needs to be his own character, using his chaos abilities (as seen in sonic battle).

I agree that would be neat, but given how unique chrom is from roy as an echo, he could still fit as that. personally i believe shadow should be an echo and knuckles should be his own character entirely (since he is far more unique and could easily be a cross between dr. mario and sonic). not knocking what your saying though by any means.

 

[millsfan]

I agree that would be neat, but given how unique chrom is from roy as an echo, he could still fit as that. personally i believe shadow should be an echo and knuckles should be his own character entirely (since he is far more unique and could easily be a cross between dr. mario and sonic). not knocking what your saying though by any means.

Shadow is by far the most popular sonic character after sonic; I would like to imagine Sakurai would consider this after 12 years of fans requesting shadow as a character. Personally, I feel with how close Nintendo is with the sonic franchise, you’d think after brawl, smash 4, and here in ultimate we could have had shadow in smash 4; ultimate could have brought us tails and knuckles. I know it sounds crazy, but sonic is unlike any other third party (sonic and Mario have so many games together). You’d think sonic would be better represented in smash

 

[KayaMarley]

Shadow is by far the most popular sonic character after sonic; I would like to imagine Sakurai would consider this after 12 years of fans requesting shadow as a character. Personally, I feel with how close Nintendo is with the sonic franchise, you’d think after brawl, smash 4, and here in ultimate we could have had shadow in smash 4; ultimate could have brought us tails and knuckles. I know it sounds crazy, but sonic is unlike any other third party (sonic and Mario have so many games together). You’d think sonic would be better represented in smash

naw i feel you. Sonic is pretty iconic, though i wouldnt necessarily say he's that big (at least not recently). sega's kinda thrown him through a few too many bad ones recently, which is unfortunate. either way his status as an icon should have definitely had a little more significance. i guess that just means sakurai has even bigger plans??

 

[Zinith]

Hmm, I dunno. It's not like I joined this site making a support thread for a very specific clone of a well-beloved character *coughcough*

 

[BirthNote]

2) Dixie Kong as Diddy's Echo. - would be similar, but instead of diddy's recovery being the jetpack, it would be her hair spin, and could work like King K. Rule's Recovery. probably something other than the peanut popper too. maybe popping bubble gum since she des that sometimes? could work as a short range blast attack type of thing, idk.

4) Zero as Mega Man's Echo. - I'm not super into mega man so i don't know a ton, but i just think Zero would be a really fun character to play. also would standardly use his sword instead of projectile shots for his basic attacks.

I'm not down with either of these 2 being an Echo.

Zero in many ways is an opposite of Mega Man...X. Mega Man X is different from Mega Man the same way Link and Toon Link are from 2 different eras. X uses gunplay (his buster), armor upgrades and Reploids (futuristic Robot Masters) abilities while Mega Man uses gunplay (his buster) and Robot Master abilities. Sounds similar, right? Yup, only problem is Mega Man's SSB moveset references Robot Masters which are only from the Classic Mega Man games. X, who is not in the game would use abilities from his games: the Mega Man X series. That's where Zero, and the massive problem I'm getting at comes in. Zero uses his sword 95% of the time, a shockwave punch for 4% and a gun for the other 1%...almost to the point where you'd forget he has a gun at all. That's basically all Zero does: swing a Z-Saber (which is totally not based off a Light Saber lol) in a bunch of cool ways and get in close to his victims as he slices them up. X is the ranged guy, and Zero is the close-quarters guy. X is different from Mega Man; he's closer to Link's height and has powers that Mega Man is too weak to handle; think of the difference between a biplane and a fighter jet. And while X is different from Mega Man, Zero is VASTLY different from both of them. Zero can't even remotely be a Mega Man Echo; there's a size/height difference, a playstyle difference, and ability difference. It's like pretending a sword and a gun can do the same thing. You're better off trying to make Proto Man be Mega Man's Echo.

Now we move onto Dixie Kong. Almost everyone who wants her to be an Echo says it because of her looks. At first glance, she's got the same basic design as Diddy: Small Kong with a hat and shirt combo with fused eye sockets and similar build. They're running on the Mickey + Minnie/ Pac-Man + Ms. Pac-Man/ Popo + Nana mentality: They look similar, so they are similar, right? Nope. Ever since her debut game, Dixie was made to stand out from Diddy, and not just in animations. While Diddy does cartwheels, Dixie does pirouettes; Diddy flies with his Jetpack, Dixie flies with her hair; while Diddy grabs with his hands, Dixie grabs with her hair. Compare that to Luigi, who started off as Green Mario, or Shadow, who only had running animations and cutscene powers to stand out from Sonic at first. Luigi and Shadow diverged more as their series progressed, but Dixie stood out from the get-go. Unlike Diddy, Dixie relies almost entirely on her hair for nearly everything. She uses it to swim faster, to lift things, to throw things, to fly, double jump and attack with it. Thanks to Tropical Freeze she can even smack the ground with it and stun people. Her ponytail isn't like Diddy's tail; Diddy barely uses his tail for anything other than a whip, and as of Ultimate he can't really do that anymore, so we can't just map Diddy's non-existent tail attacks to Dixie's hair since he almost never had any. Dixie's hair is so versatile that it might as well be a 5th limb, and that's one major point of her character: she needs a moveset that over-relies on using her hair. She can do things with it that Shantae, Rayman and Tails can't do combined, and if she gets in as an Echo she'd have to have: a different Dash Attack, different Up B, different Grabs, different Throws (4 moves at least), move slower on the ground, her mid-air jump from Tropical Freeze, maybe a glide like Peach/Daisy at the bare minimum, disqualifying her from the Echo category.

That's why these 2 especially can't be Echoes. You can make a convincing case for Shadow as well, considering how much he's changed since SA2. However there's no way Zero should be an Echo of Mega Man, and Dixie should not be for Diddy.

 

[Planet Cool]

The thing about that is, we still don't know what exactly makes an echo. Chrom is an echo of Roy despite having a different up special. Ken is an echo of Ryu despite all his specials (and even some of his standards?) having different properties. Dixie could be very distinct from Diddy and still be considered an echo, although it's more likely that she'd be a semi-clone like Isabelle.

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm not down with either of these 2 being an Echo.

Zero in many ways is an opposite of Mega Man...X. Mega Man X is different from Mega Man the same way Link and Toon Link are from 2 different eras. X uses gunplay (his buster), armor upgrades and Reploids (futuristic Robot Masters) abilities while Mega Man uses gunplay (his buster) and Robot Master abilities. Sounds similar, right? Yup, only problem is Mega Man's SSB moveset references Robot Masters which are only from the Classic Mega Man games. X, who is not in the game would use abilities from his games: the Mega Man X series. That's where Zero, and the massive problem I'm getting at comes in. Zero uses his sword 95% of the time, a shockwave punch for 4% and a gun for the other 1%...almost to the point where you'd forget he has a gun at all. That's basically all Zero does: swing a Z-Saber (which is totally not based off a Light Saber lol) in a bunch of cool ways and get in close to his victims as he slices them up. X is the ranged guy, and Zero is the close-quarters guy. X is different from Mega Man; he's closer to Link's height and has powers that Mega Man is too weak to handle; think of the difference between a biplane and a fighter jet. And while X is different from Mega Man, Zero is VASTLY different from both of them. Zero can't even remotely be a Mega Man Echo; there's a size/height difference, a playstyle difference, and ability difference. It's like pretending a sword and a gun can do the same thing. You're better off trying to make Proto Man be Mega Man's Echo.

Now we move onto Dixie Kong. Almost everyone who wants her to be an Echo says it because of her looks. At first glance, she's got the same basic design as Diddy: Small Kong with a hat and shirt combo with fused eye sockets and similar build. They're running on the Mickey + Minnie/ Pac-Man + Ms. Pac-Man/ Popo + Nana mentality: They look similar, so they are similar, right? Nope. Ever since her debut game, Dixie was made to stand out from Diddy, and not just in animations. While Diddy does cartwheels, Dixie does pirouettes; Diddy flies with his Jetpack, Dixie flies with her hair; while Diddy grabs with his hands, Dixie grabs with her hair. Compare that to Luigi, who started off as Green Mario, or Shadow, who only had running animations and cutscene powers to stand out from Sonic at first. Luigi and Shadow diverged more as their series progressed, but Dixie stood out from the get-go. Unlike Diddy, Dixie relies almost entirely on her hair for nearly everything. She uses it to swim faster, to lift things, to throw things, to fly, double jump and attack with it. Thanks to Tropical Freeze she can even smack the ground with it and stun people. Her ponytail isn't like Diddy's tail; Diddy barely uses his tail for anything other than a whip, and as of Ultimate he can't really do that anymore, so we can't just map Diddy's non-existent tail attacks to Dixie's hair since he almost never had any. Dixie's hair is so versatile that it might as well be a 5th limb, and that's one major point of her character: she needs a moveset that over-relies on using her hair. She can do things with it that Shantae, Rayman and Tails can't do combined, and if she gets in as an Echo she'd have to have: a different Dash Attack, different Up B, different Grabs, different Throws (4 moves at least), move slower on the ground, her mid-air jump from Tropical Freeze, maybe a glide like Peach/Daisy at the bare minimum, disqualifying her from the Echo category.

That's why these 2 especially can't be Echoes. You can make a convincing case for Shadow as well, considering how much he's changed since SA2. However there's no way Zero should be an Echo of Mega Man, and Dixie should not be for Diddy.

He's 149% right. To make Zero an echo of Mega Man is completely ignorant.
That'd be like making Waluigi an echo of Mario because they're both humans in the Mario series.
Even X is extremely different from Classic Mega Man.
The only viable Echoes for the Blue Bomber are Proto Man and Bass.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The only viable Echoes for the Blue Bomber are Proto Man and Bass.

And Roll.

 

[Ben Holt]

And Roll.

Err...
Roll's not for me. She's canonically not a fighting robot whereas Proto Man and Bass are actually clones in the Mega Man games.
Same with Shadow in every main series Sonic game.
Same with Lui....
Wait! Luigi isn't an Echo!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Err...
Roll's not for me. She's canonically not a fighting robot whereas Proto Man and Bass are actually clones in the Mega Man games.
Same with Shadow in every main series Sonic game.
Same with Lui....
Wait! Luigi isn't an Echo!

Clearly the solution here is for Capcom to canonize this the same way they canonized Street Fighter x Mega Man.

Funny how Capcom decided to make Roll the traditional echo in all the crossover fighters. I mean Proto Man and Bass barely appear in crossover rosters compared to her, their main fighting game appearances are in Megaman arcade spinoffs like Power Battles and Power Fighters.

 

[KayaMarley]

I'm not down with either of these 2 being an Echo.

Zero in many ways is an opposite of Mega Man...X. Mega Man X is different from Mega Man the same way Link and Toon Link are from 2 different eras. X uses gunplay (his buster), armor upgrades and Reploids (futuristic Robot Masters) abilities while Mega Man uses gunplay (his buster) and Robot Master abilities. Sounds similar, right? Yup, only problem is Mega Man's SSB moveset references Robot Masters which are only from the Classic Mega Man games. X, who is not in the game would use abilities from his games: the Mega Man X series. That's where Zero, and the massive problem I'm getting at comes in. Zero uses his sword 95% of the time, a shockwave punch for 4% and a gun for the other 1%...almost to the point where you'd forget he has a gun at all. That's basically all Zero does: swing a Z-Saber (which is totally not based off a Light Saber lol) in a bunch of cool ways and get in close to his victims as he slices them up. X is the ranged guy, and Zero is the close-quarters guy. X is different from Mega Man; he's closer to Link's height and has powers that Mega Man is too weak to handle; think of the difference between a biplane and a fighter jet. And while X is different from Mega Man, Zero is VASTLY different from both of them. Zero can't even remotely be a Mega Man Echo; there's a size/height difference, a playstyle difference, and ability difference. It's like pretending a sword and a gun can do the same thing. You're better off trying to make Proto Man be Mega Man's Echo.

Now we move onto Dixie Kong. Almost everyone who wants her to be an Echo says it because of her looks. At first glance, she's got the same basic design as Diddy: Small Kong with a hat and shirt combo with fused eye sockets and similar build. They're running on the Mickey + Minnie/ Pac-Man + Ms. Pac-Man/ Popo + Nana mentality: They look similar, so they are similar, right? Nope. Ever since her debut game, Dixie was made to stand out from Diddy, and not just in animations. While Diddy does cartwheels, Dixie does pirouettes; Diddy flies with his Jetpack, Dixie flies with her hair; while Diddy grabs with his hands, Dixie grabs with her hair. Compare that to Luigi, who started off as Green Mario, or Shadow, who only had running animations and cutscene powers to stand out from Sonic at first. Luigi and Shadow diverged more as their series progressed, but Dixie stood out from the get-go. Unlike Diddy, Dixie relies almost entirely on her hair for nearly everything. She uses it to swim faster, to lift things, to throw things, to fly, double jump and attack with it. Thanks to Tropical Freeze she can even smack the ground with it and stun people. Her ponytail isn't like Diddy's tail; Diddy barely uses his tail for anything other than a whip, and as of Ultimate he can't really do that anymore, so we can't just map Diddy's non-existent tail attacks to Dixie's hair since he almost never had any. Dixie's hair is so versatile that it might as well be a 5th limb, and that's one major point of her character: she needs a moveset that over-relies on using her hair. She can do things with it that Shantae, Rayman and Tails can't do combined, and if she gets in as an Echo she'd have to have: a different Dash Attack, different Up B, different Grabs, different Throws (4 moves at least), move slower on the ground, her mid-air jump from Tropical Freeze, maybe a glide like Peach/Daisy at the bare minimum, disqualifying her from the Echo category.

That's why these 2 especially can't be Echoes. You can make a convincing case for Shadow as well, considering how much he's changed since SA2. However there's no way Zero should be an Echo of Mega Man, and Dixie should not be for Diddy.

holy crap, i love how pasionate you are about these two character, and this is exactly why i made this thread. i wanted to see how people felt about certain characters. I hear you on the Zero not working. like i said i havent really played much mega man. im aware that X is different completely, but i thought zero had an X counter part as well.. oh well, either way good to know.

As far as dixie kong goes though, i am aware of the differences, but look at chrom being roy's echo. it's about as different as isabelle is to villager, unlike daisy and peach or marth and lucina who are nearly identical, these other two are nearly completely different characters. it's weird with echos because no ones quite sure where the line gets drawn. On one side you have characters like peach and samus who are being echoed by daisy and dark samus, nearly exact copies, and on the other side you have the same deal but with characters like Link and toon link, or mario and dr. mario, who arent considered echos at all. it's odd, and when a character like lucina echos marth (whos shticks are switched completely, changing their entire kits functionality), and also have chrom echoing roy, who's different in nearly every way, it seemingly covers a wide range if chosen to do so. animations and character height seem to be the one deciding factor, and even that is loose at best.

while dixie kong is a completely different character, i still feel they would (and could), make her work as an echo, while still being completely unique. thats just my thought on all that though. your points make a lot of sense and i definitely agree with you, i just feel it's too ambiguous and vague to flat out say that she couldnt work as an echo.

 

[fogbadge]

well i would like octolings for inklings, gooigi for luigi, digny for isabelle, impa for shiek and either twili midna, one of the oracles, hilda or styla for zelda

on a side note, whats the reasoning for zant as a zelda echo?

 

[BirthNote]

holy crap, i love how pasionate you are about these two character, and this is exactly why i made this thread. i wanted to see how people felt about certain characters. I hear you on the Zero not working. like i said i havent really played much mega man. im aware that X is different completely, but i thought zero had an X counter part as well.. oh well, either way good to know.

As far as dixie kong goes though, i am aware of the differences, but look at chrom being roy's echo. it's about as different as isabelle is to villager, unlike daisy and peach or marth and lucina who are nearly identical, these other two are nearly completely different characters. it's weird with echos because no ones quite sure where the line gets drawn. On one side you have characters like peach and samus who are being echoed by daisy and dark samus, nearly exact copies, and on the other side you have the same deal but with characters like Link and toon link, or mario and dr. mario, who arent considered echos at all. it's odd, and when a character like lucina echos marth (whos shticks are switched completely, changing their entire kits functionality), and also have chrom echoing roy, who's different in nearly every way, it seemingly covers a wide range if chosen to do so. animations and character height seem to be the one deciding factor, and even that is loose at best.

while dixie kong is a completely different character, i still feel they would (and could), make her work as an echo, while still being completely unique. thats just my thought on all that though. your points make a lot of sense and i definitely agree with you, i just feel it's too ambiguous and vague to flat out say that she couldnt work as an echo.

Yea it's confusing cuz Sakurai zigzags on what is and isn't an Echo. Ken gets that label but is so distinct he might as well be on Isabelle's level or higher, like Wolf or Lucas. Sakurai seems to be going on making a character an Echo on "Because I said so."

The thing about Dixie is that if she does become an Echo she's gotta have some changes to feel like herself. Different animations are a given, plus her own Dash Attack, Up B, mid air jump and most importantly grabs/throws. She can't be cartwheeling her way around the stage, since DK and Diddy have their own DKC dash attacks thus Dixie should too. The popgun would have to work with its own properties, especially since the size difference between a gumball and a peanut has to be factored in. Her Up B is basically a vertical version of DK's, which functionally doesn't need much to change, but you'd need an animation overhaul as she'd be hitting mostly with her hair instead of DK's arms. Mid Air jump is a shout-out to Tropical Freeze and adds personality. It's basically how Yoshi and the PK kids have a unique jump. Most importantly though, is the grab game. She's gotta grab with her hair somehow, and if she does, she's gotta throw with her hair too. That makes her throws vastly different from Diddy's, and potentially means she could carry people with her hair like DK does when you press Forward, which gives her a grab game all unto herself. Plus make her run slower as a shout out to DKC2.

All that is what she needs at the bare-minimum to feel like herself. 7 different moves, her own animations, distinct air game and a decently modified Neutral B. Chrom mostly has Roy's moves besides the Up B, removed Blade gimmick and Unique Final Smash, which in competitive circles doesn't exist. Besides that he's identical to Roy with one move from Ike, and I just checked to make sure. Exact same Smashes, Tilts, Jab, Aerials, Throws and 3/4 Specials. Chrom is the same moveset but with tweaks. Dixie would need more than that going for her; with all the changes she'd have she's better off being Isabelle-level, though personally I'd take Wolf-level or completely unique if I'm lucky.

As for Zero, he and X are as different as the color Red is from Blue. They've got a yin and yang dynamic and if you're into sidescroller shooting platformers I recommend the 1st 4 Mega Man X games. Anyway, glad I could clear things up.

 

[Foxy Alopex]

Yes it is his father and I meant James McCloud should have melee Fox's moveset as an Echo

 

[Foxy Alopex]

I like the idea of Dry Bowser. I have seen a lot of ideas with him regarding the use of bowser's old melee style, which always sounded really cool to me. i mean that's what Dr. Mario is to mario, so why not? would be really cool!


Yeah i was really bummed when knuckles wasn't in as a playable character. He would have felt really unique too. at least he's an Assist though


is Ultimate's Fox not the same one? i thought they were both Fox McCloud, cuz isnt James his father? He doesnt really appear in many things so i just figured it was the normal fox.


I agree with some of what your saying, but i think Dry Bowser is an ehh example, simply because the idea of having a Bowser echo with the original moveset, similar to Dr. Mario having Mario's original set, is a really neat idea. That's kinda why i made this thread too, just to kinda see what people would want, and the different ideas they might have for them. I thought it was silly to do anything with Dry Bowser until i heard that idea, so now im completely for it.

Yes it is his father and I meant James McCloud should have melee Fox's moveset as an Echo

 

[Planet Cool]

Yea it's confusing cuz Sakurai zigzags on what is and isn't an Echo. Ken gets that label but is so distinct he might as well be on Isabelle's level or higher, like Wolf or Lucas. Sakurai seems to be going on making a character an Echo on "Because I said so."

Shot in the dark here, but I think it has more to do with the character's frame and hurtboxes and less to do with moves and animations. That's the only thing that would explain why Ken is an echo but Isabelle isn't, far as I can figure.

 

[KayaMarley]

well i would like octolings for inklings, gooigi for luigi, digny for isabelle, impa for shiek and either twili midna, one of the oracles, hilda or styla for zelda

on a side note, whats the reasoning for zant as a zelda echo?

I realize Zant for Zelda sounds a little odd, but I feel it fits a little better, as his specials could be only a slight variyation of hers, since he uses magic as well. the way i see it is he could use magic similar to zeldas (some slight differences. having something other than the teleport maybe?) as well as use Links sword attacks for his basic attacks. He would play like a cross between the two, which could be really cool. also i like your ideas for echos. I just got Luigi's Mansion 3 for christmas and gooigi would be really cool as an echo!

 

[fogbadge]

I realize Zant for Zelda sounds a little odd, but I feel it fits a little better, as his specials could be only a slight variyation of hers, since he uses magic as well. the way i see it is he could use magic similar to zeldas (some slight differences. having something other than the teleport maybe?) as well as use Links sword attacks for his basic attacks. He would play like a cross between the two, which could be really cool. also i like your ideas for echos. I just got Luigi's Mansion 3 for christmas and gooigi would be really cool as an echo!

i think if hes a mix of two characters im not sure he can count as an echo, still an character who has moves based on two would be a interesting way to do it. if you like the idea of gooigi as an echo you should check out his support thread and see the ideas people are coming up with

 

[UserKev]

- Dixie Kong
- Doc Louis
- Alph
- Knuckles
- Rodin

 

[Lionel_B]

Shadow for Sonic
Dark Meta Knight for Meta Knight
Octolings for Inklings
Gold Mario for Mario
Intelleon for Greninja

 

[fogbadge]

Shadow for Sonic
Dark Meta Knight for Meta Knight
Octolings for Inklings
Gold Mario for Mario
Intelleon for Greninja

intelleon is a bit of a stretch

 

[shinhed-echi]

Ness/Lucas > Ninten

Sonic > Tails (Up+B now Flying a’la Duck Hunt)
/ Sonic > Metal Sonic (Side+B = similar to Flare blitz, and nair similar to Mewtwo’s)

K.Rool > King Hippo (don’t know how to feel about echoes based on characters from other series, but I love how similar they would be. His up+B could be bouncing up from ring ropes, like Incineroar except vertically)
Little Mac > Doc Louis (slower, heavier version of Mac).

Megaman > Protoman/Roll (Specials change to: Shadow Blade, Danger Wrap, Beat, Jewel Shield. And Final smash swaps Megaman with Protoman/Roll)

Palutena > Medusa (like Protoman, change all specials to other of Palutena’s custom skills From smash 4)

 

[LightKnight]

: Mighty
Most recently seen in Sonic Mania, he would be about as different to Sonic as Ken is to Ryu. Would be a heavier version of Sonic with unique armoring properties to some of his moves and would have Down-Special completely changed to be like his bounce move.
: Proto Man
Basically Mega Man with a shield, I'd find this more appealing to play than the Mega Man character.
: Wartortle
Would have the same size (as Squirtle is scaled up in Smash) and would essentially be the same character with small tweaks to balance them as a solo character. Bubble would be its added move which would help with setting up KOs and giving you options to get back down to stage.
: Charizard-X (Mega)
Would basically be Smash4 Charizard in the sense that it would get Rock Smash back and would be solo again but likely with some tweaks. However, it'd be different in that Charizard would be in its Mega X form and as such would have blue flames instead of orange.
: Ivysaur (female/seed version)
This is the hardest to come up with out of PT's Pokemon but the idea is to make all of them solo-playable so this is the best I could think of and the fact it wouldn't be too different I don't think would matter too much. Basically a seed would be visibly poking out just above the center of the flower. Can't recall if this is a thing in Pokemon or not but its a possibility. Its new Down-Special could be Solar Beam, Poison Powder, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, or Growth.