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Official E3 2021 Discussion Thread

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Shroob

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Oh... and to some of the above comments...

Min Min is absolutely the main character of ARMS. Just gonna throw that back out again.
Or rather, she is the mascot for it- aka, the most popular, known character.

The main characters for Tekken follow the entire Mishima line.

I didn't ever understand Pyra/Mythra, though. In the games- from my viewing- it looks like they never fight, they just are connected via energy to Rex. Is this incorrect? If so, I don't understand why Rex isn't the fighter, with Pyra or Mythra in the background, like Pokemon Trainer.
The DLC for Xenoblade 2 allows Mythra to fight on her own. Pyra didn't exist at that point in the story, since the DLC is a prequel.


Sakurai told us why he didn't do Pyra/Rex, because having 8 players on the screen at once with Pyra and Rex would be too much. Pyra is much more involved than Pokemon Trainer ever could be in fighting.
 

rychu_supadude

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It's here, boyz.
"Wow, Kazuya is in Tekken"
People are going to be quoting that back at him for years, I bet

I'm still not sure how I feel... I know that not every character is going to be for me personally, I'm excited that it wasn't leaked, and he is a great character and clearly fun to play. A heck of a lot of boxes ticked, but it still comes off as very whelming.
I think the problem is that even though we've had "keep expectations low" shoved down our throats for the general Direct (so much for that), we still had them set "too high" for Smash itself, so all we can think about is who Kazuya isn't and not that he's a legit icon in his own right
 

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"Wow, Kazuya is in Tekken"
People are going to be quoting that back at him for years, I bet

I'm still not sure how I feel... I know that not every character is going to be for me personally, I'm excited that it wasn't leaked, and he is a great character and clearly fun to play. A heck of a lot of boxes ticked, but it still comes off as very whelming.
I think the problem is that even though we've had "keep expectations low" shoved down our throats for the general Direct (so much for that), we still had them set "too high" for Smash itself, so all we can think about is who Kazuya isn't and not that he's a legit icon in his own right
idk about that, while Tekken wasn't the first 3D fighting game (that belong to Virtua Fighter), it still was one of the first & most iconic game in the genre, that and Tekken is still going strong to this day.

Sure, Kazuya may not compare to some fighters, but I feel he is alot more iconic than sayyyyyyyyyyy, Min-Min or Pyra. (who are both very recent character from more or less very recent franchise, so it's not their fault in a sense)
 

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Kazuya's just been overshadowed by Heihachi all these years who has been the face of the series. Guess with the trajectory of Tekken's story and now Kazuya being in Smash we're seeing Kazuya pick up the mantle from Heihachi.
 

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The DLC for Xenoblade 2 allows Mythra to fight on her own. Pyra didn't exist at that point in the story, since the DLC is a prequel.


Sakurai told us why he didn't do Pyra/Rex, because having 8 players on the screen at once with Pyra and Rex would be too much. Pyra is much more involved than Pokemon Trainer ever could be in fighting.
My understanding with Rex, is that when he fights, no blades fight with him.
If both fight at the same time, I understand the concept.
Are you saying Pyra actually fights alongside Rex (not just separately in the prequel?)
All I've seen, only one character fights at a time.
If this is true, Sakurai's comment does not make sense.

idk about that, while Tekken wasn't the first 3D fighting game (that belong to Virtua Fighter), it still was one of the first & most iconic game in the genre, that and Tekken is still going strong to this day.

Sure, Kazuya may not compare to some fighters, but I feel he is alot more iconic than sayyyyyyyyyyy, Min-Min or Pyra. (who are both very recent character from more or less very recent franchise, so it's not their fault in a sense)
It is funny that, many people felt Lloyd was a fine choice, because Tales' is one of the most iconic JRPG's ever.
Yet, Tekken, part of the trio of fighting games that are financially and commercially (as a franchise) significantly more successful than any other fighting game... in a game that has so few fighting game characters... is considered a 'meh' pick.

Kazuya's just been overshadowed by Heihachi all these years who has been the face of the series. Guess with the trajectory of Tekken's story and now Kazuya being in Smash we're seeing Kazuya pick up the mantle from Heihachi.
I think Heihachi's V.A death was a big cause... but is it possible the devil mechanic wouldn't have made sense for Heihachi? I have played a lot of Tekken, but by know means am I an expert. I know the whole Mishima line aligns with the devil (gene?), but I don't recall Heihachi ever utilizing it as a fighting mechanic.
 
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Shroob

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My understanding with Rex, is that when he fights, no blades fight with him.
If both fight at the same time, I understand the concept.
Are you saying Pyra actually fights alongside Rex (not just separately in the prequel?)
All I've seen, only one character fights at a time.
If this is true, Sakurai's comment does not make sense.
Pyra's on the Battlefield with Rex 24/7, and she constantly is using attacks alongside Rex. While she spends some time as a supportive role, she does fight alongside Rex when he uses a skill or whatnot.

In the Prequel DLC, Mythra is basically a normal party member. She fights solo, much like she does in Smash.


Sakurai's idea was to have Pyra constantly attached to Rex, and when he'd use a special move, they'd both do it, but Sakurai said that getting 8 Ice Climbers were already hard enough for the Switch to handle. Pyra and Rex have MUCH more detailed models than Nana or Popo, so 8 Rex and Pyras would cause performance issues with the Switch, according to him.


It's a performance issue, the Switch isn't good enough hardware to handle 16 Rex and Pyras on screen at once, and he said getting 16 Ice Climbers were hard enough.
 
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My understanding with Rex, is that when he fights, no blades fight with him.
If both fight at the same time, I understand the concept.
Are you saying Pyra actually fights alongside Rex (not just separately in the prequel?)
All I've seen, only one character fights at a time.
If this is true, Sakurai's comment does not make sense.
Blades are connected to their drivers. They provide a weapon to their driver during combat and stand by them as they fight granting them abilities. They'll toss their weapon around to each other during specials but you don't control the blades.

In the Torna expansion, they developed the concept of swapping the weapon around so now you can also control the blades and fight, while the driver does things to support them. They swap in a similar way to how Kongs swap in the DKC series.

Having the most accurate representation of the characters would be like implementing a way more complex version of Ice Climbers. They need to be together but need to do different things.
 
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Pyra's on the Battlefield with Rex 24/7, and she constantly is using attacks alongside Rex. While she spends some time as a supportive role, she does fight alongside Rex when he uses a skill or whatnot.

In the Prequel DLC, Mythra is basically a normal party member. She fights solo, much like she does in Smash.


Sakurai's idea was to have Pyra constantly attached to Rex, and when he'd use a special move, they'd both do it, but Sakurai said that getting 8 Ice Climbers were already hard enough for the Switch to handle. Pyra and Rex have MUCH more detailed models than Nana or Popo, so 8 Rex and Pyras would cause performance issues with the Switch, according to him.


It's a performance issue, the Switch isn't good enough hardware to handle 16 Rex and Pyras on screen at once, and he said getting 16 Ice Climbers were hard enough.
Pyra's on the Battlefield with Rex 24/7, and she constantly is using attacks alongside Rex. While she spends some time as a supportive role, she does fight alongside Rex when he uses a skill or whatnot.

In the Prequel DLC, Mythra is basically a normal party member. She fights solo, much like she does in Smash.


Sakurai's idea was to have Pyra constantly attached to Rex, and when he'd use a special move, they'd both do it, but Sakurai said that getting 8 Ice Climbers were already hard enough for the Switch to handle. Pyra and Rex have MUCH more detailed models than Nana or Popo, so 8 Rex and Pyras would cause performance issues with the Switch, according to him.


It's a performance issue, the Switch isn't good enough hardware to handle 16 Rex and Pyras on screen at once, and he said getting 16 Ice Climbers were hard enough.
I feel I'm getting two alternate POV's...
Do the blades just stand next to the driver, or do they actually... visually... do anything?
In Smash terms: Would Pyra and Mythra need hitboxes/hurtboxes if they were attached to Rex?
 
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I feel I'm getting two alternate POV's...
Do the blades just stand next to the driver, or do they actually... visually... do anything?
In Smash terms: Would Pyra and Mythra need hitboxes/hurtboxes if they were attached to Rex?
Mostly stand there but they do join in for special attacks. Some statuses also directly effect them.

You could say, have them in the background like Pokemon Trainer but you'd have to make sacrifices as to what moves you can represent.
 

Shroob

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I feel I'm getting two alternate POV's...
Do the blades just stand next to the driver, or do they actually... visually... do anything?
In Smash terms: Would Pyra and Mythra need hitboxes/hurtboxes if they were attached to Rex?
Yes, probably.


Basically, imagine it like this.


Pyra would stand behind Rex and constantly send him energy. If Rex uses a move, Pyra would jump in to help do the move with him. If Pyra got detached from Rex, he'd be weaker.



Pyra in the background wouldn't work, since she'd be constantly blinking into existence to do special attacks alongside Rex, which would just be visually cluttered.
 

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Mostly stand there but they do join in for special attacks. Some statuses also directly effect them.

You could say, have them in the background like Pokemon Trainer but you'd have to make sacrifices as to what moves you can represent.
Yes, probably.


Basically, imagine it like this.


Pyra would stand behind Rex and constantly send him energy. If Rex uses a move, Pyra would jump in to help do the move with him. If Pyra got detached from Rex, he'd be weaker.



Pyra in the background wouldn't work, since she'd be constantly blinking into existence to do special attacks alongside Rex, which would just be visually cluttered.
It still sounds to me, that Pyra and Mythra standing in the background, would be compromising less than just not having Rex fight at all.
Taking away Rex takes away the entire character.
Taking away that they join in on attacks may not be accurate, but it is much closer to accurate.
 

Shroob

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It still sounds to me, that Pyra and Mythra standing in the background, would be compromising less than just not having Rex fight at all.
Taking away Rex takes away the entire character.
Taking away that they join in on attacks may not be accurate, but it is much closer to accurate.
It really doesn't, because at the end of the day, that's an entirely personal feeling.


There's also the business fact that, Pyra and Mythra are frankly popular, popular enough to get merchandise in Japan, and "A Xenoblade 2" character has been a popular request in Japanese fan polls even after Rex's Mii costume was shown off.
 

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It really doesn't, because at the end of the day, that's an entirely personal feeling.


There's also the business fact that, Pyra and Mythra are frankly popular, popular enough to get merchandise in Japan, and "A Xenoblade 2" character has been a popular request in Japanese fan polls even after Rex's Mii costume was shown off.
Marketing, I more than understand- and that is a valid reasoning.
But... Rex fighting with two support characters (who sound to be doing nothing most of the time), or having the characters that mostly do nothing taking center stage....one clearly is less of a change.

Either way, I've got my answer now. Thanks.
 
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What is isekai, in your mind? (Meaning, versus my googling it)
The emphasis on transportation to another world, not just the existence of one.


Marketing, I more than understand- and that is a valid reasoning.

But... Rex fighting with two support characters (who sound to be doing nothing most of the time), or having the characters that mostly do nothing taking center stage....one clearly is less of a change.



Either way, I've got my answer now. Thanks.

When you consider Torna (my favourite Xenoblade) then the way they fight in Smash Bros makes perfect sense, even if Pyra came later. HOWEVER between both campaigns the girls kind of become the real protagonist.
 
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rychu_supadude

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I saw some people saying that everyone will rush to sell their Super Mario Party copies, and I briefly considered it myself but changed my mind after the Treehouse. They made it clear that Superstars is focused on traditional button controls, so Super still has a place if you want to play with motion controls. One of my friends kept both 8 and 9 in rotation because they brought different things to the table.

And WarioWare is just phenomenal. They've managed to come up with a gimmick that nobody thought of and goes a long way towards justifying the pricetag that people keep complaining about. There's more games than ever AND they feel different depending on which character you're using? Sign me up now.

idk about that, while Tekken wasn't the first 3D fighting game (that belong to Virtua Fighter), it still was one of the first & most iconic game in the genre, that and Tekken is still going strong to this day.

Sure, Kazuya may not compare to some fighters, but I feel he is alot more iconic than sayyyyyyyyyyy, Min-Min or Pyra. (who are both very recent character from more or less very recent franchise, so it's not their fault in a sense)
I was saying that he IS an icon, just an icon who got overlooked. People are still getting used to the idea that the main mascot doesn't have to be the first representative after it held true for 20 years of Smash.
 

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I was saying that he IS an icon, just an icon who got overlooked. People are still getting used to the idea that the main mascot doesn't have to be the first representative after it held true for 20 years of Smash.
I see I see, well hopefully his inclusion can fix that a bit.

Lots of peoples didn't care about Terry before Smash, and while he isn't like absolute mainstream now, alot more people respect him & his franchise these days.

Guess only time can tell tho.
 
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