Dtilt finishing chart.

[Yorenec]

Alrighty, people. I've been wanting to do this for a while now but never had time. I've finally gotten around to testing it extensively, so without further ado.

The general minimum percentage needed to kill any given character with dtilt. All of this was done on FD and on the first dtilt of a match or hitting them around for a few min with other moves to get rid of dtilt decay, so decay isn't a factor.. I'll probably get around to the other "legal" stages in time.
Here it goes. Note 1: Some of these percentages may be off by a couple, but what I have is the general area after about four hours of testing. Note 2: Some of these percentages may seem weird and not right, but this is what I got. Everybody is free to do their own tests to either corroborate or disprove mine.

Mario:135%.
Luigi:130%.
Peach: 123%
Bowser:150%
DK:160%.
Diddy:130%.
Yoshi:140%
Wario:140%.
Link:145%
Sheik:120%
Zelda:120%
Ganondorf:145%.
TL:130%
Samus:135%.
ZSS:125%.
Pit:132%
ICs:125% (I suck at desynching, so don't have seperate numbers for both of them but I've ko'd Nana lower than 125% before.)
ROB:140%
Kirby:117%
MK:117%
DDD:160%
Olimar:122%.
Fox:117%
Falco:125%
Wolf:140%
Capt. Falcon:150%
Pika:122%
Charizard:140%
Squirtle:140%
Ivysaur:105%.
Lucario:132%
Jiggs:105%
Marth:130%
Ike:145%
Ness:130%
Lucas:130%
G&W:113%
Snake:155%
Sonic:132%


As I said, some of those are really weird.

Charizard baffles me the most. Considering it's a heavyweight and a fire pokemon, it should take much higher than that, like 170% to KO, yet it only takes 140. 140 is what is needed, the bare minimum, even if your opponent is crouching and DI'ing downwards when you dtilt them. I obsessed with Charizard and definitely spent nore time with it than any other character just to be sure, and 140 is exactly it.

Squirtle I figure is due to it being a water pokemon and a fast faller.

Ivysaur is probably because of grass and being overall gimped.

Charged shot or fsmash is probably what I'll test next.

A few things I noticed during all of this also.

Dtilt seemingly takes forever to decay. It doesn't really start decaying until like the fifth or sixth time you use it.

While using bair as a means to get rid of dtilt decay, I also noticed that sweetspot bair can kill from the middle of FD on a good portion of the cast fairly easily, even with DI. I'm going to get around to testing that one day soonish too probably.

 

[hellbourne]

Good to know. Thanks for putting the time into doing this. I'm looking forward to seeing the other ones.

 

[0RLY]

Thanks, this will be very helpful for future reference. Were these tested on CPUs in training mode or did you have a friend help you? Decay has no effect in training mode.

 

[Subach]

This should be added to the guide, I daresay.

 

[HugS]

Very necessary. Great job.

 

[Yorenec]

Thanks, this will be very helpful for future reference. Were these tested on CPUs in training mode or did you have a friend help you? Decay has no effect in training mode.

Both.

I did em in training mode first. Then used second controller to double check them in normal Brawl.

In training mode they were all on stop to just sit there. In normal Brawl I held down the control stick on second controller when I dtilted to DI them back down towards the stage. It rarely made a difference.

Edit: I played around some more and for those with stall then fall moves such as the Link's and ZSS's dairs. Even if they are already crouching to DI down and then attempt to use it when you send them flying, pretty much all of the time it won't help them, you'll get the KO.

 

[hellbourne]

Yeah, their dairs don't send them down if they've just been knocked.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Good stuff and I look forward to the chargeshot one.

 

[salaboB]

Charizard baffles me the most. Considering it's a heavyweight and a fire pokemon, it should take much higher than that, like 170% to KO, yet it only takes 140. 140 is what is needed, the bare minimum, even if your opponent is crouching and DI'ing downwards when you dtilt them. I obsessed with Charizard and definitely spent nore time with it than any other character just to be sure, and 140 is exactly it.

Squirtle I figure is due to it being a water pokemon and a fast faller.

Ivysaur is probably because of grass and being overall gimped.

The pokemon don't resist or have vulnerabilities to elements in Brawl that I've ever heard mentioned or noticed.

 

[Yorenec]

The pokemon don't resist or have vulnerabilities to elements in Brawl that I've ever heard mentioned or noticed.

Well. I considered that as an option. Pikmin however do have vulnerabilities and immunities, why can't the Pokemon. You could argue that the Pokemon may not have them since they are actual playable characters whereas the Pikmin really aren't, however as of this moment we don't really know.. If the pokemon have their vulnerabilities and resistances carried over, it would make sense as to why Ivysaur KO's so low with a fire-oriented attack and why Squirtle takes much higher despite being one of the lightest characters. It's the most logical possibility I could come up with. It still doesn't explain Charizard though sadly.

As for the chargeshot/fsmash/bair ones. No promises on when I'll have the time to do them, could be next week, could be next month. Somebody else can do them if they want though.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Beam, fsmash, and bair will be more difficult to test for the fact that they will need to be in the same place every time.....preferably in the middle of the stage.
Very nice find, some of these characters i won't play with samus, but still very nice.

 

[0RLY]

In training mode they were all on stop to just sit there. In normal Brawl I held down the control stick on second controller when I dtilted to DI them back down towards the stage. It rarely made a difference.

Edit: I played around some more and for those with stall then fall moves such as the Link's and ZSS's dairs. Even if they are already crouching to DI down and then attempt to use it when you send them flying, pretty much all of the time it won't help them, you'll get the KO.

DI is improved if you move perpendicular to the direction you're sent flying.

 

[Rohins]

Great chart. Thanks a bunch.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

The pokemon don't resist or have vulnerabilities to elements in Brawl that I've ever heard mentioned or noticed.

Yes, they definitely do. I just tested for dtilt vs dsmash, and on every character except S Q U I R T L E and I V Y S A U R, the KO % on FD for dtilt divided by the KO % for dsmash was about 0.90. However, S Q U I R T L E actually died sooner from the dsmash, while I V Y S A U R died much later from the dsmash.

Info on the characters I tested (sorry about the april fool's stuff screwing it up):
Character: Dtilt KO % on FD, Dsmash (front hit) KO % on FD, first divided by second
Kirby: 117, 128, .914
Dedede: 160, 179, .894
DK: 152, 168, .905
Falcon: 148, 168, .902
Fox: 116, 129, .899
C harizard: 140, 154, .909
S quirtle: 136, 120, 1.134
I vysaur: 104, 149, .698

SUMMARY: Dsmash kills S quirtle sooner than Dtilt, but use dtilt on everyone else.

 

[Dobs1007]

Good chart very useful thanks.

 

[0RLY]

Thank yew, Ihavespaceballs. I was wondering, does Samus' dtilt have enough hitstun to prevent Lucario from saving himself by using dair to stop his upwards momentum?

 

[RaigothDagon]

Thank yew, Ihavespaceballs. I was wondering, does Samus' dtilt have enough hitstun to prevent Lucario from saving himself by using dair to stop his upwards momentum?

Nope. Lucario can still save himself at this percentage with his dair. I even tried a dsmash straight after this, and it can kill him unless he does his dair. He is a little bit stubborn about dying upwards...

 

[Jing)]

I love you haha:D edit: yeah and I'll do charged shot chart, unless you want to :D I may as well contribute something to samus forums

 

[salaboB]

Yes, they definitely do. I just tested for dtilt vs dsmash, and on every character except S Q U I R T L E and I V Y S A U R, the KO % on FD for dtilt divided by the KO % for dsmash was about 0.90. However, S Q U I R T L E actually died sooner from the dsmash, while I V Y S A U R died much later from the dsmash..

If you want to declare this more certainly, find another neutral attack and see if it still holds true. Otherwise it could just be related to their hitboxes and something odd with the characters -- why wouldn't Charizard resist, otherwise?

You'd want to test with another known fire attack such as Din's as well. I see no reason you couldn't shorten the tests to just the three pokemon though, and see how they continue to compare to each other (Possibly with one other random character just to act as a baseline)

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

If you want to declare this more certainly, find another neutral attack and see if it still holds true. Otherwise it could just be related to their hitboxes and something odd with the characters -- why wouldn't Charizard resist, otherwise?

You'd want to test with another known fire attack such as Din's as well. I see no reason you couldn't shorten the tests to just the three pokemon though, and see how they continue to compare to each other (Possibly with one other random character just to act as a baseline)

I tested several other things, they just weren't related to this topic (Samus' dtilt as a kill move), so I didn't post them.

Charizard doesn't resist fire because they decided to just have the "triangle" of resistances/weaknesses, ignoring that water/fire/grass also resist attacks of the same type in Pokemon. So water-based attacks have more knockback than they should on Charizard, but less on Ivysaur, and no difference on Squirtle; fire-based have more on Ivysaur, less on Squirtle, no effect on Charizard; figure grass out yourself XD.

With every attack I tested that doesn't appear to have a water, fire, or grass effect, Charizard would die off the top at a certain damage, Ivysaur would die at about .9x that damage, and Squirtle would die at about .7x Charizard's death damage. This includes the tip of Samus dsmash (I made sure to use the very tip, so no hitbox problems), Squirtle's utilt (made sure he wasn't tired out), Pikachu's upsmash (the hitbox closest to Pika), and a few others I don't remember.

However, with Squirtle's upsmash (which shoots out two water jets), Charizard died sooner than Ivysaur. With Samus' dtilt (fire), Squirtle lived longer than Ivysaur. With Ivysaur's upsmash (pollen/grass), Squirtle died ridiculously fast, while Charizard lived much longer than would be expected.

Oh, and electricity seems to have no effect. Pikachu's dsmash produced the same kill% ratio on the three of them that would be expected from any non-elemental attack.

I'd give you the exact numbers, but they're at home on a piece of paper that's hopefully not in the trash, and I'm at work.

 

[LaserBust]

I tested several other things, they just weren't related to this topic (Samus' dtilt as a kill move), so I didn't post them.

Charizard doesn't resist fire because they decided to just have the "triangle" of resistances/weaknesses, ignoring that water/fire/grass also resist attacks of the same type in Pokemon. So water-based attacks have more knockback than they should on Charizard, but less on Ivysaur, and no difference on Squirtle; fire-based have more on Ivysaur, less on Squirtle, no effect on Charizard; figure grass out yourself XD.

With every attack I tested that doesn't appear to have a water, fire, or grass effect, Charizard would die off the top at a certain damage, Ivysaur would die at about .9x that damage, and Squirtle would die at about .7x Charizard's death damage. This includes the tip of Samus dsmash (I made sure to use the very tip, so no hitbox problems), Squirtle's utilt (made sure he wasn't tired out), Pikachu's upsmash (the hitbox closest to Pika), and a few others I don't remember.

However, with Squirtle's upsmash (which shoots out two water jets), Charizard died sooner than Ivysaur. With Samus' dtilt (fire), Squirtle lived longer than Ivysaur. With Ivysaur's upsmash (pollen/grass), Squirtle died ridiculously fast, while Charizard lived much longer than would be expected.

Oh, and electricity seems to have no effect. Pikachu's dsmash produced the same kill% ratio on the three of them that would be expected from any non-elemental attack.

I'd give you the exact numbers, but they're at home on a piece of paper that's hopefully not in the trash, and I'm at work.

Holy dude, yur a beast. Nice find, Im pretty near convinced elements play a role now.

EDIT - An ye.. DIing 2 t3h side haz more effect than DIing downwards when sent on a vertical Ascent. Perpendicular waz the accurate direction, Nj whoever said that >.<