"Drill baby drill"

[Sucumbio]

As my father in law drove in to work this morning, he had to roll his windows up and turn on his exhaust fans. "Smells like kerosene," he later told us, as he recounted just how noxious the fumes were, and how they were heavy in the air, easy to fill up a car but difficult to remove. The whole I-10 corridor between Biloxi and Mobile (I live outside Pascagoula which is about in between) is holding their breath, literally as they see what will become of the coast.

"Two additional release points were found today. If the riser pipe deteriorates further, the flow could become unchecked resulting in a release volume an order of magnitude higher than previously thought." -source

"In a matter of days or weeks, the new oil spill is expected to be far more devastating than the Exxon Valdez oil spill that took place 21 years ago." -source

-source

The coastal area here is home to many unique species and environments, some of which are endangered. -source

The impact to fishing and other water-based industries alone is devastating, especially considering how soon this has occurred since Hurricane Katrina. -source

BP -may- not be ALL to blame. -source

But they are also receiving a harsh public outcry. -source

And have agreed to full compensation. -source

And THIS is why we should not drill baby drill. Even if you take every precaution you cannot hope to account for all possibilities. Oil is a valuable natural resource. But drilling for it close to land or in waters with super fast currents that lead to land, is irresponsible, and now as we can see, potentially life threatening, in both the literal sense, and in the sense of way-of-life.

It's time to move forward, America. Give up on Big Oil.

Thankfully Obama has ceased NEW offshore drilling. -source

But is it enough? Or should the US ban all off-shore oil drilling?

 

[Jam Stunna]

I think David Brooks of the New York Times put it best:

All forms of energy have risk, and we shouldn't completely write off any form because of one incident.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yes we shouldn't let the got the way of the Hindenburg disaster because far too much is ridding on oil at the moment. This might be able to be the push that Obama needs to get the free energy initiative out the door though.

 

[Sucumbio]

I absolutely agree that oil is important, and it's impossible (right now) to completely rule it out as an energy source. I just think if we're going to drill for it, it should either be on land, or off the shore of some -other- country... as it turns out the Atlantis rig is also suspected of being sub-par... it seems as if BP is guilty of "cutting corners" in terms of their safety regulations, and the recent light shed upon -why- the first rig blew to begin with (and why the oil leak is so bad afterward) tells me that not only is off-shore drilling -in the Gulf of Mexico- prohibitively dangerous, but that oil companies are more interested in profit than in safety. It's as if we learned nothing from Exxon Valdez, though that comes as little surprise, it's not like that happened in our backyards (like this one). The Palins of the country think an increase in domestic off-shore drilling is the answer to our energy needs. It's AN answer, but I think it's trading one evil (funding terrorism) for another (F'ing up our coastline!). If we're gonna drill, lets do it somewhere else, so we can at least screw up someone else's coastline. I know that seems ... well wrong, but as is pointed out, you gotta have the oil, and as the recent ads have pointed out, we gotta stop buying from OPEC, or at least petition to have countries like Iran removed from OPEC (yeah that'll never happen though).

 

[blazedaces]

Honestly... I'm often praying for the oil to finally just run out. As soon as it starts running out we'll find alternative energy sources and all those countries with nothing but oil will stop being rich for no reason...

Plus tons of the issue with carbon dioxide emissions will disappear and people will shut up about it. Though I have to point out the actual issue won't go away, global warming will still be there, but it'll be too late to just "lower emissions" since the half-life of carbon dioxide dispersing from the atmosphere is simply too long...

-blazed

 

[Crimson King]

Speaking as someone from the affected area, we are pretty screwed. Oil is getting into the marshes, and it's killing off wildlife an vegetation. A hurricane would end us now.

The problem with is is no one is willing to try fixes. Several local scientists have solutions, but BP is going with Kevin Costner at this point. It's a terrible situation that is all BP's fault (they knew of the faulty shut off valve for weeks before this happened), and they seem not to care enough to fix it.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I watched 60 Minutes interview one of the guys who survived the explosion, and he said that they knew of impending doom very early one. The kicker was that when they damaged the annular (iirc) to the drill and they didn't want to repair so they could get to the oil faster.

Even more scary, BP may have another catastrophe on it's hands that would dwarf this rig blowing up on a site not very far from the first (also on the interview).

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Speaking as someone from the affected area, we are pretty screwed. Oil is getting into the marshes, and it's killing off wildlife an vegetation. A hurricane would end us now.

The problem with is is no one is willing to try fixes. Several local scientists have solutions, but BP is going with Kevin Costner at this point. It's a terrible situation that is all BP's fault (they knew of the faulty shut off valve for weeks before this happened), and they seem not to care enough to fix it.

This is ridiculous. Reminds me of Katrina, what with all of the possibilites of avoiding a lot of damage that failed to happen.

People care more about money than the lives of innocent animals and humans as well. Way to go BP.

I think David Brooks of the New York Times put it best:

All forms of energy have risk, and we shouldn't completely write off any form because of one incident.

We shouldn't write it off, but we should learn to be more careful and less selfish. BP knew about this, and they chose not to fix it. Now that selfishness is destroying habitats, killing animals, and it could have been prevented.

 

[KrazyGlue]

As terrible as this crisis is, it should not be the end of offshore drilling. And this spill is something that is extremely rare, as drilling techniques are improving vastly. This is normally a very safe process. I personally don't like offshore drilling, and I'm certainly weary of starting new drilling, but we can't completely eliminate it considering our massive dependence on it.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I'm all for continuing offshore drilling, I just wish people would use common sense. When something breaks, fix it. Don't let the problem escalate to something of this nature. I mean if it was a sudden thing I wouldn't be this angry about it, but the fact that it could have been stopped really sets me off.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

You know what annoys me most about this problem, is that we need oil. Oil gives us everything, pretty much, and we need bucketloads of it. Everything plastic, is almost guaranteed to be made from oil, anything moved anywhere uses oil. The problem is, that our oil is going to run out, it's murder to the environment, and as others pointed out, it funds/corrupts nasty regimes and just trashes the place.

In short, we need it like a heroin addict needs his quick fix, and it seems at the moment the only way to quit, is going to be very hard. We've tried the methadone -biofuels- they didn't really work, now all we've really got left, is slowly weaning ourselves off it.

 

[manhunter098]

You know what annoys me most about this problem, is that we need oil. Oil gives us everything, pretty much, and we need bucketloads of it. Everything plastic, is almost guaranteed to be made from oil, anything moved anywhere uses oil. The problem is, that our oil is going to run out, it's murder to the environment, and as others pointed out, it funds/corrupts nasty regimes and just trashes the place.

In short, we need it like a heroin addict needs his quick fix, and it seems at the moment the only way to quit, is going to be very hard. We've tried the methadone -biofuels- they didn't really work, now all we've really got left, is slowly weaning ourselves off it.

There is some prospect in algae farming to produce biodiesel fuel (we could replace all our gas and diesel with algae production over an area about the size of Georgia). Assuming we can get that off the ground. Dont really see to much difficult in going all electric with our automobiles, but its certainly feasible (we can recycle rechargeable batteries effectively and a recent advancement may give us about 5 times the previous capacity. Furthermore right now only 1% of our electricity comes from oil, though natural gas does account for around 24% of our electricity generated in the US.

Air travel I do fear though will have to rely on bio-fuels after oil is depleted, I'm not certain how much fuel we use in airplanes each year, or if we can make large battery powered planes with sufficient ranges. And change there I think will be more difficult than it may in the auto industry.

We can also make natural plastics and such, but you get my drift.

We are definitely addicted to fossil fuels, but I do not think it will be a painful process for us to switch to more environmentally friendly methods of maintaining our modern world.

I'm more for cutting our reliance on oil, but I certainly agree it isn't something we could do quickly. Though if we teamed up with Canada, we could probably shrug foreign oil altogether with enough time for both our countries to shift over to renewable/nuclear energy sources and convert what needs to be of our transportation sector to boot. Don't confuse me for being optimistic though, I'm not sure how quickly we can bring ourselves to change, but I don't think the change will be nearly as painful as its many critics make it out to be.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

There is some prospect in algae farming to produce biodiesel fuel (we could replace all our gas and diesel with algae production over an area about the size of Georgia). Assuming we can get that off the ground. Dont really see to much difficult in going all electric with our automobiles, but its certainly feasible (we can recycle rechargeable batteries effectively and a recent advancement may give us about 5 times the previous capacity. Furthermore right now only 1% of our electricity comes from oil, though natural gas does account for around 24% of our electricity generated in the US.

Well, oil does power almost all of our transport. Planes, cars, diesel trains, trucks, ships, the list goes on and on...

Well the electric car idea is great, we just need to get it off the ground, improve the range a little (or just build charging stations) and hey presto, we've cut back massively on the amount of oil we burn. Electric trucks, ships, and planes on the other hand are a little different. Ships are in there for the long-haul, as are trucks, they'd need to increase the capacity of our batteries a lot before we start using electricity for them.

Public transport should be encouraged, it's more efficient and it uses much less oil. Furthermore, train and tram lines can be easily electrified, so that we use electricity instead of oil to power them, if we haven't done so already...

Air travel I do fear though will have to rely on bio-fuels after oil is depleted, I'm not certain how much fuel we use in airplanes each year, or if we can make large battery powered planes with sufficient ranges. And change there I think will be more difficult than it may in the auto industry.

Yeah, batteries are heavy in comparison to oil, and for Air travel, weight counts for a lot, so I don't think that air travel will use electricity very soon. Biofuels are kinda silly mind you though, they take more energy to produce than they give out. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Pimentel-Tadzek.pdf

Additionally, it has been stated that it takes more oil than a litre of oil to create a litre of ethanol. This is frankly not a solution. Anyway, I'll stop smearing biofuels...

We can also make natural plastics and such, but you get my drift.

Yeah, but that's not exactly ready yet now is it?

We are definitely addicted to fossil fuels, but I do not think it will be a painful process for us to switch to more environmentally friendly methods of maintaining our modern world.

I'm more for cutting our reliance on oil, but I certainly agree it isn't something we could do quickly. Though if we teamed up with Canada, we could probably shrug foreign oil altogether with enough time for both our countries to shift over to renewable/nuclear energy sources and convert what needs to be of our transportation sector to boot. Don't confuse me for being optimistic though, I'm not sure how quickly we can bring ourselves to change, but I don't think the change will be nearly as painful as its many critics make it out to be.

Yeah, I'm totally for moving away from oil. It's really bad stuff. It's just that I don't believe biofuels are the answer. I think renewables, electric vehicles, public transport, and nuclear energy is the way to go.

 

[manhunter098]

Yeah, batteries are heavy in comparison to oil, and for Air travel, weight counts for a lot, so I don't think that air travel will use electricity very soon. Biofuels are kinda silly mind you though, they take more energy to produce than they give out. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Pimentel-Tadzek.pdf

Additionally, it has been stated that it takes more oil than a litre of oil to create a litre of ethanol. This is frankly not a solution. Anyway, I'll stop smearing biofuels...

Well I certainly don't think that ethanol is an effective biofuel (nor biodiesel really, at least not yet), the only method I really see of biofuels being effective is in algae farms (like I said if we could could them off the ground). Ethanol might be a bit better if we can get a more effective way to get cellulose converted into ethanol. Really though I think that we will eventually make biofuels effective through genetic engineering of unicellular organisms (and maybe even some multicellular ones). It is very difficult to pass on an opportunity to have a potentially abundant and energy dense fuel, and both ethanol and biodiesel certainly are dense enough in energy to be desirable.


I certainly see electricity as the next step for people who don't travel too far very often, but like I mentioned before about our relatively new advancement in battery tech, we may even be able to do long distance, add to that the ability for companies to do battery swaps and basically sell you miles at a cheaper rate than gasoline miles (not to mention maybe recycle those batteries when they get worn out). Well, the infrastructure for that is a little ways off, but it will come with electric cars.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Well I certainly don't think that ethanol is an effective biofuel (nor biodiesel really, at least not yet), the only method I really see of biofuels being effective is in algae farms (like I said if we could could them off the ground). Ethanol might be a bit better if we can get a more effective way to get cellulose converted into ethanol. Really though I think that we will eventually make biofuels effective through genetic engineering of unicellular organisms (and maybe even some multicellular ones). It is very difficult to pass on an opportunity to have a potentially abundant and energy dense fuel, and both ethanol and biodiesel certainly are dense enough in energy to be desirable.

Yeah, algae farms are actually a pretty cool idea, it entirely removes the whole food vs. fuel debate, and may actually produce more energy than we put into it...

I certainly see electricity as the next step for people who don't travel too far very often, but like I mentioned before about our relatively new advancement in battery tech, we may even be able to do long distance, add to that the ability for companies to do battery swaps and basically sell you miles at a cheaper rate than gasoline miles (not to mention maybe recycle those batteries when they get worn out). Well, the infrastructure for that is a little ways off, but it will come with electric cars.

That's really cool actually, battery swaps, charging stations, the plug-in hybrid are all great steps in the right direction.

 

[Sucumbio]

Well I'll say this much: either this was a carefully orchestrated demolition of BP from the get-go, or fate is really not without a sense of irony.

Poor buggers.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I was watching Anderson Cooper tonight, and it's interesting how many lies and cover-ups BP is throwing out there. First, their COO said in a public statement that BP would not cover up anything. However, when environmentalists tried to take pictures of oil-covered birds, BP had hired security to block out the area. A reporter for CNN tried to ask BP employees about the issue, but all they would say is "no comment" or "I'm here to stop the oil spill; that's all I will say". Two anonymous employees said they would be fired if they gave out any information regarding the oil cleanup.

It's a terrible situation. BP is really making itself look worse at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

Dear everybody:

It is an oil leak, not an oil spill. I don't know why this bothers me so much. o_o

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Dear everybody:

It is an oil leak, not an oil spill. I don't know why this bothers me so much. o_o

Well, it's a little more than a leak. It's more like a gushing torrent of the stuff. It's like saying that Hurricane Katrina was windy. I don't believe it describes the gravity of the situation.

 

[Sucumbio]

Dear everybody:

It is an oil leak, not an oil spill. I don't know why this bothers me so much. o_o

I agree, it's annoying and inaccurate. That's the media for you; lexical fail incarnate.

 

[Crimson King]

Day 5x: still unbelievably screwed. Also, it regularly smells like oil at night (they are burning what they can). Estimates have it leaking around 40k barrels a day. Kevin Costner's plan will take 6 weeks to be at full force. Awesome.

 

[Sucumbio]

It'll be great to see the fruits of his investment realized. Its fortuitous his "flop" movie Waterworld which I loved (and that also starred late actor Dennis Hopper, may he R.I.P.) led to his involvement in this research. At least BP's going for it, with all their fail recently you'd half expect them to john about it coming from the American Robin Hood.

And yeah, the smell's pretty bad. It comes and goes with the direction of the winds, but it will no doubt get worse as time goes on.

 

[adumbrodeus]

We should've switched to much safer and cleaner nuclear power a while ago, why are we still using oil?

 

[Crimson King]

Chernobyl has a lot to do with it. That and Three Mile Island put bad tastes in the every person who can remember at least something from it. Seeing shots and videos of Prypiat is pretty chilling still.

The problem with nuclear power is if the reactor does meltdown (which is rare) you have a much worse environmental mishap than an oil spill. Oil spills suck (Exxon-Valdez for example), but Nuclear meltdowns make an area uninhabitable.

Sucumbio, no idea if you knew this, but when oil went into Chalmette, Louisiana a few years back, the area was declared contaminated, bullldozed, dredged up, and recovered with soil. For the people who lived there? Tough.

 

[Deleted member]

Off-topic, but I'd love to go to Prypiat. I think it's fascinating rather than chilling. Soviet-era propaganda; madman graffiti everywhere; examples of nature not giving a **** about radiation; things frozen in time. I would love love love to go.

Also, yeah, it is gushing oil. I suppose we could call it an oil gush, but leak suffices. Besides, if you consider the size of the leak in relation to the size of the world, it's a leak. Just not a spill.

 

[Crimson King]

I've mentioned to my GF daily that I want to propose on top of the abandoned hospital in Prypiat. She stopped throwing things at me at least. Progress!

 

[Sucumbio]

Sucumbio, no idea if you knew this, but when oil went into Chalmette, Louisiana a few years back, the area was declared contaminated, bullldozed, dredged up, and recovered with soil. For the people who lived there? Tough.

No, I didn't know that, actually. How close are you to the shore, anyway? I'm not far, but I'm far enough inland that it shouldn't directly cause problems, more of a systemic problem to local economy/business (and my nose).

They've got more oil on Petit Bois Isand. Its definitely getting closer to home. And the new prospectus shows double the volume as before spewing forth. I am, however somewhat weary of taking these reports at face value. Media outlets (like the NY Times) tend to ... exaggerate when it suits them.

In other Oil Spill Fail related news the US has given 48 hours for BP to do something. I wonder how they'll enforce this deadline.

We should've switched to much safer and cleaner nuclear power a while ago, why are we still using oil?

CK pretty much nailed but to add, the industry return on operation is far better for Big Oil/Coal than Nuclear. This article goes somewhat in depth with some major bullet points:

-nuclear power is unaffordable
-scientists still don't know how to safely transport, dispose of or store nuclear waste
-known uranium resources could fail to meet demand
-building hundreds of nuclear power plants in an era of spreading Islamic terrorism seems insane (LOL @ that one, but I guess it could be true)
-nuclear power represents the kind of highly centralized, clunky technology of a bygone era

I agree mostly with the first reason (and pretty much only the first reason). Research could definitely lead to better transport and disposal if it were properly funded. Not sure about the Earth's readily available uranium deposits, but that's why we do things like ... dig for uranium. The terrorist aspect is, well... meh. And I don't buy that it's clunky and "old" I mean, Coal and Oil plants are old too, the technology in all energy is "old" ... even solar energy dates back to the late 19th century.