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Don't rate my Marth...

B

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
Because I know it's pretty bad...

Yeah, yeah. We did that thing where we found out about advanced techs and learned them. Had fun... I think the games better with them even as a casual player.

I'm not looking for anybody to go "Hey, you suck!" or "That's not too bad, I'd still win though... cause I'm Cactus."

I'm looking for advice, whether it be friendly or not. What should I stop doing? What should I do more? What am I doing wrong and what do I need to learn? Anything you wanna throw out there.

I'm not saying I wanna be good enough to keep up with some of the better players out there, but I wanna improve none-the-less. Here's some videos from last year (before our extended melee break) as references to see if we've gotten better or worse since then.

And please don't just come in here and say "You guys suck" because WE ALREADY KNOW and that's why this is here... to get better.

Warning: These may, nay, will... be very painful to sit through.

May 17, 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4rTp1zKUkY vs Doc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpzJlqnu4mE vs Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFW9EPsA1gI vs IC

May 25, 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvBLgXTDli8 vs Samus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeQ1ECF4HHk vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX-IoAv0wW8 vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKckzahVfJA vs Kirby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6Dfgp7dyk vs Roy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Z0oEFhJB8 vs Roy

October 5, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21DejSDcuc4 vs Mario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh230I9EXfU vs Roy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeGncSyet_c vs Roy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzwmNsTHF5o vs IC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MXqRXolHg0 vs Sheik

October 9, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD1ISn426Cg vs Mario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcYTPkLgcGg vs Mario

October 20, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wybl6ZGEJ14 vs Doc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVnSSlWdC5g vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nAfcTBp8IU vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlcKf_cPqwo vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjXwsWXHfdM vs Sheik

February 4, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npehhhS3RxM (vs Mario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZiyR4OeqXw (vs Falco)
Reset:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMtMtlkcbao (vs Sheik)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxyhuYUCArg (vs Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fC__KNB3vs (vs Falcon)

If I mislinked something, point it out (please?). Trying to put together three of these topics at once was a little confusing at times.
 
Zone

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
I'm only gonna give advice on your latest vs Shiek match. Becasue I'm not that familiar with fighting low tiers as Marth. Since I play against low tiers as Zelda, more than likely. btw when I critique I like to be nit picky so if I state obvious things I'm not saying you don't already know it, it's just how I roll. Because I can critique myself all day with nit pickys that I know what I did wrong.



:08 seconds into the game You did an approaching F-air on shiek when you were already right next to her. IMO you shoulda done a F-air in place or maybe retreat a f-air just a little bit.

:12 Not sure but I think you counted shiek before she even jumped. If so that's bad always make sure you see the jump first. If you did it after jump Good job lol. Knowing shiek can't grab you so easily from underneath usually means she'll go for an aerial.

:27 from personal experience I get pwned whenever I roll into the stage if Shiek is patient and waiting to see what I do. My counter for shiek's options are, Nuetral Air if you expect a spot dodge, more likely to hit. Grab if you expect a shield. Make sure once you get invincibility frames you make your decision fast. Shiek is not a good character to play edge games with from my experience, unless she's the one recovering.

2:10 Don't play with the dead. Zelda had no hope of recovering until you decided to be flashy and back-air. I'm sure you knew this though :D I like make the same mistake all the time in friendlys.

I'm pretty sure Zelda/shiek loses invincibility frames immediately after they change, so take advantage of that.

From my experience You got some forward air's in with a follow up for upair potential. A bit harder to do but Try to do F-air as you leave the ground if it hits, Then you can connect with an l-canceled up-air before you hit the ground instead of a double f-air. I have more combo luck with the 2nd aerial as up-air vs shiek than doulbe f-airs like I use on Peaches.

Make sure your forward smash hits shiek and not her shield. I guess what i'm saying is unless you like 90% sure it'll hit don't use it. Like catch em after spot dodge, or combo into it. If the shiek likes to wavedash out of shield and grab. That's a free grab if they can do it well. (Situationaly I think if you tip her shield ur out of grab range. NOTE: THINK)

3:30 be a little more patient with shiek's recovery (She was so dead). You'll be surprised how many times they'll go for sweet spot especially if you do a fake jump and re-grab the edge. Not to mention the second you see shiek land on the stage you can get an aerial off.

That's my 2 cents. I'm not a God Marth player so some of the stuff I said there may be better choices, but From my experience my choices work for me so far. and until then they will continue to work.

Try baiting shiek to miss you more by running away a bit. and do a few more retreating F-airs to an approaching shiek.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
i saw very little if any improvement. you play like you just picked up the char and still dont have a feel for him.
 
B

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
Zone: I played a few friendlies today and tried to use the f-smash less. I guess it'll take a little getting used to, it's hard to drop a mannerism so quick. I tried messing around with fair - uair combos too, I need more work with those but they work out well when I can get them off.

RaynEX: I'll try to work on it, no promises on quick results though. =P

Sveet: Okay, but that doesn't really help me. What am I doing that shows that I'm lacking the feel for him?

Cactuar: I asked about in that other topic but... whatever. Edgeguarding Mario got a lot easier after reading your post about it. Knocking them back through the fireball with non-sweetspotted fairs works nice for low approaches. The best part was the idea of not using F-smash at all, that helped a ton.

Workin on it all, more vids another time...
 
ConnorTheKid

ConnorTheKid

Treat Yo' Self
Premium
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
6,782
Location
SoCal
I think you should try and look more smooth with him, I only saw the first match of Oct. 5th but all you pretty much did was nair > fsmash or shffl a fair. try more double fairs to combo floaties/average weight characters. Your Marth just seems a little too slow to watch, no offense. I'm pretty sure the other Marth users will help out more than me.
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
^ It wasn't a waste. critiqued vids are a great way to get better.

Betrayed: You should try to work on your fluidity. Cactuar was talking about it in his thread and i commented on how useful it is. Make sure you are always moving, after ever lcancel and attack. Marth's moves should flow into one another, even his blocked ones. Just try to make your movement a bit lighter and more co-ordinated.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Betrayed said:
Sveet: Okay, but that doesn't really help me. What am I doing that shows that I'm lacking the feel for him?
Click to expand...
when watching you play i cringe cause you have no sense of what moves link together or any idea of knockback or spacing. it was painful to watch any of the matches beginning to end.
 
Zone

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
Yea make sure you help your friend get really good, maybe even better than you. That will improve your game.

Improve your friends game as well as yours and just keep playing. You really should wait a couple months or 3 and after 1-2 tourney visits before reposting matches. It's not exactly easy to apply a bunch of new stuff w/o being newb with it.

Lemme give an example:

When I first learned to waveshine. I was an idiot with it, Because where I coulda upsmashed, or grabbed. All I did was think about landing waveshine. Probably a bit extreme example, but it takes alot of matches before you learn to incorporate our advice into your game so you don't have to THINK about it as you play.
 
B

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
Even if somebody came in and told me the same thing after every set of matches, that'd still be cool. F-smash less, u-tilt more, edgeguard smarter... Just somebody to say "Hey, keep workin' on it. It's getting a little better" or "You're going back to old tricks, watch it"

I like posting a few matches every few days, not because I want to know if I got any better, but because I want to show matchups against other characters. Tiny improvements, anything...

And I do have a question in general, I haven't played with my "DI Master" friend in awhile. He'd always tell me when I DI'd wrong and which way would have been better.

Am I doing okay when I get sent flying? And more importantly, what about close up? Like when I get stuck in up-tilts or simple chained stuff...
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
watched the first new one of the mario. still the same stuff. i could only go thru 1:09 but heres a bunch of mistakes i saw:

tons of Nair spam. it has a small area and doesnt combo well, while fair covers all the area above and in front of you and combos really well.

dont spot dodge needlessly. for one its very punishable and also 90% of the time you could throw out an attack and it would hit. i even saw you land a nair and then spot dodge instead of following and edgeguarding.

dont randomly jump off when you edgeguard. if you want to jump and fair them, do this: run off, fast fall, jump, fair, DI back and sideb then sweetspot upb (incase you need to bair or something)

always save your jump when you are off the stage. this can save you many stocks by either helping you get back if you get hit coming back once and have no more sideb's, and it can also get your opponent off the edge so you can sweet spot (jump and then fair or sideb).

if you have to upb onto the stage, dont do it right away, try to time it so you land on the stage but you dont go a mile above. you are already going to be in a ton of lag so dont add to it if you dont have to.
 
I

iNiGhTmAr3

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
112
Location
L.I. NY
i play just like you betrayed...i'm trying to learn some pointers too and i like watching some of your videos...i also like all of this feedback and you should continue to putting videos :)
 
X

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
Yeah like most said less f-smashes, you seem like you do them when you THINK they might hit (like waiting for an opponent to drop a shield) so it isn't exactly spam, but it seems everyone knows your tactic. Also move around a lot more and be more aggressive, your marth is a little on the defense side... which segways into my next point that you don't grab nearly enough. I spend a lot of time chasing with grabs as marth as they lead into a lot of things. Work more on some of your techskill, learn to waveland well and have good overall platform movement, also learn to fastfall to hog the ledge.
 
B

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
I had taken a break from Marth for a few days. I'm a lot less fluid (I think) now (well, less so than I was before). I probably need to work on my dashdancing and grabs a lot more. I think it really showed when I got beat in a ditto... =/ Anyways...

October 20, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wybl6ZGEJ14 vs Doc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVnSSlWdC5g vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nAfcTBp8IU vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlcKf_cPqwo vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjXwsWXHfdM vs Sheik

Oh, by the way... I hate Sheik. :)
 
B

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
Guess I'm back. Didn't have much time to record, but here's what I did get.

Yes, I'm still having trouble with that Mario. Falcos a pretty new matchup to me as well (I hope to get better at it with practice)

Meh, here we go.

February 4, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npehhhS3RxM (vs Mario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZiyR4OeqXw (vs Falco)

Reset:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMtMtlkcbao (vs Sheik)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxyhuYUCArg (vs Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fC__KNB3vs (vs Falcon)
 
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