Don't give up on DLC too quickly

[firedragon_jing]

We've all heard the argument that DLC won't happen because this is Nintendo, but Sakurai has surprised us a lot with Brawl...

For one, he made it possible for a Wii game to support a GameCube controller. Not only that, but it supports 4 controller schemes. Both things Nintendo hasn't looked into before.

Next, Brawl is the first Wii game to allow saving and reading to the SD card, from the internet no less. DLC for a game has already been stated in terms of custom stages and photos, both of which are small, but it doesn't mean Sakurai can't expand on it.

Lack of memory is debunked with the SD card memory usage, as an SD card can easily and cheaply now-a-days be in the GBs. I personly have 2 SanDisk Ultra II 1.0 GB cards for my camera and Wii. Hopefully in a future firmware update, Nintendo will drop the 2 GB limitation just like the PSP dropped its and allowed 4 GB and higher MS. 4 GB and 8 GB are now under $100 so they are affordable if made worth the money, and just under to the capacity of a full single layer 4.7 GB and dual layer 8.5 GB disc. By next year, both the MS and SD cards will reach their full potential of 32 GB of storage, so if future firmwares allow the uses of these cards as well as being able to read off of them, there will be little need for a Wii external HDD.

Last, this is Nintendo's flagship into Online, showing they're as up to speed as the other developers, so to say they won't use DLC to its full potential is just underestimating Nintendo's promise to go Online. Nintendo has made huge leaps online with their Wii. The GCN had very limited online functionality, but the Wii has included a online browser, a voting channel, a downloadable Mii channel, a weather channel, and a online news channel. Not to mention the shop channel for Wiiware that is soon to be open to third party developement, as well as classic games.

I have a little more faith in the game company I've followed since I was a little kid playing SMB3 on my NES. Nintendo has been trying to get past their shortcoming with the GCN, and are trying to show that they can go beyond the gaming experience with the Wii amd show they want to be innovative. People just seem to forget that.

Also, the fact that GHIII is getting DLC proves larger DLC for games is there. They stated that they're waiting on Nintendo to provide the services, I bet Nintendo is trying to make use of it first, I highly doubt they'd let only a 3rd party game use high end DLC.

Sakurai is the one who's leading this project, he's been adding stuff Nintendo hasn't. While I'm sadden by the lack of mic support, Nintendo probably just hasn't gotten around to making a mic/headset for the Wii, so he put in the text writer for friends. I think Sakurai knows what he's doing with online.

Lets just wait till Sakurai's speech at GDC later this month to hear if he has any big announcements for Brawl.

 

[Pumpkins]

Oh yeah! I Forgot about his GDC speech. Let's hope for the best...and lets hope people schedule interviews!

 

[PanzerOceania]

waiting to see is a good idea. All will be revealed in time, I won't hold my breath one way or the other.

 

[Edfishy]

Good post FiredDragon, DLC was my first thought when the limited "35 Character" roster was revealed. Although we obviously couldn't expect legions of new content if the DLC support was indeed coded into SSBB, but I think it would be safe to assume to the possibillity of 4-8 characters before the end of the Wii's lifetime, along with other balances and improvements.

In anycase, time will tell, but there's no technical or developmental reason for Nintendo not to have included even the potential for future updates, even if they are only as small as balance changes.

Just a thought, could DLC have been what this most recent delay was all about? I can't believe it was only to put the finishing touches on the smattering of "secret" characters, as they were likely planned since mid-development.

 

[The Great Leon]

nice post. here's hoping ^^

 

[PanzerOceania]

you gotta understand though that even 35 characters while seeming small for brawl is a HELLA big roster for a fighting game, especially when trying to consider balance. what an F*CKING NIGHTMARE.

one thing I will say though is they would have had to have been planned in advance because the chances of them doing it after-the-fact because the fans are asking for it is slim to none because they've already balanced the game. If there are characters it's because they've already planned them.

And not to be pessimistic, but if we DO get DLC characters is the least likely of things, not the most, before that would come things like trophies, stickers, items, music, etc.

 

[Goopygoo]

I don't think characters will be downloadable, but I could definately see them making downloadable costumes.

Masked Man costume for Lucas, Shadow costume for Sonic, Plusle/Minun costumes for Pikachu, etc. etc.

 

[cochiseSMASH]

Am I the only one who doesn't give two s***s about balanced characters when it comes to DLC/additions? Even if the characters give me no chance to win without extreme luck, I'd still like to give them a try. Where is the harm?

35 balanced characters is def. very nice. But why can't there also be a couple unbalanced characters that competitive players just don't use? Hell, I already considered Game and Watch in that category...

 

[Edfishy]

because the chances of them doing it after-the-fact because the fans are asking for it is slim to none

I don't recall fans specifically asking for it, but it would makes sense to allow for even simple balance changes for damage, speed, etc. Smash Brothers is such a casual game that they could get away with forceful nerfing without as much as an outcry as other "hardcore" fighting games would receive with such changes.

I wouldn't expect an announcement of new characters until this Christmas, we might hear about DLC later this Summer if it's in.

 

[_Slick_]

Knuckles costume for Sonic as well, adding to your post Goopygoo.

 

[turbo_ja]

honestly i don't see it happening, i've been playing brawl for a day or two now, and i'm fairly impressed with all the characters. Ganon, although similar to captain falcon, is still very different, and strong. Falco has his own move set pretty much, i have yet to try wolf though. I really don't see downloadable characters as an option, otherwise why would they hype so much about secret characters when all hell can break loose when any character can be updated/downloaded.

 

[Edfishy]

I really don't see downloadable characters as an option, otherwise why would they hype so much about secret characters when all hell can break loose when any character can be updated/downloaded.

Sakurai said to fix the (immediate) problem of players playing on WiFi and playing against (initial) characters, he'd make the (initial) roster easy to unlock. He also (I believe) said he knew that secret characters wouldn't remain secret very long because of the internet, so he had another reason to reveal all major additions early.

With the DLC character additions, Sakurai/Nintendo can keep the new characters secret for everybody until they're unleashed through the WiFI updates. To make it "fun", perhaps you're required to beat a "Warning New Challenger Approaching!" battle before being able to play WiFi when each new character is released.

 

[_Slick_]

Question: Does Sakurai have anything to do after the release a Brawl world-wide? If not, there shouldn't be any reason he doesn't make DLC. But, this is Sakurai...

 

[PanzerOceania]

Am I the only one who doesn't give two s***s about balanced characters when it comes to DLC/additions? Even if the characters give me no chance to win without extreme luck, I'd still like to give them a try. Where is the harm?

in the game designing world it just wouldn't happen, that kind of thing is looked upon as "unprofessional" like it or not, plus if the balance was thrown off they'd likely be banned from competitions.

but it would makes sense to allow for even simple balance changes for damage, speed, etc.

agreed, very logical. Bug fixes and balancing is very likely. I mean Nintendo knows that they have to start doing downloadable content eventually with SOME game because they promised it at launch (of course they promised being able to play on monitors too -_- ) and this would be a great game to do that with.

honestly I don't see it happening, I've been playing brawl for a day or two now, and I'm fairly impressed with all the characters.

EXACTLY, they already went way overtime, and more than likely over budget. Even though this thing is going to sell like hotcakes Nintendo is pretty stingy about spending more money than they have to, even on high profile games like Mario and Zelda. We shall see.

Question: Does Sakurai have anything to do after the release a Brawl world-wide? If not, there shouldn't be any reason he doesn't make DLC. But, this is Sakurai...

Vacation , and I'm sure he wants to do an original title with his new-found company Sora, I mean the whole reason he left Nintendo in the first place was to have creative freedom to make his own games. I know he loves the Smash series and will probably do another one if they offer it to him, (and we know they eventually will) but he really does want to make his own original games. Hell, I'll buy them

 

[Edfishy]

in the game designing world it just wouldn't happen, that kind of thing is looked upon as "unprofessional" like it or not, plus if the balance was thrown off they'd likely be banned from competitions.

Most other multiplayer titles that are in direct competition with Brawl feature game balance updates and future content. In reality, its fighting games that are often lacking on-line fixes & features, but this is usually because a fighting game is intended for an overly hardcore market that would frown upon such modifications. Meanwhile other hardcore games such as Call of Duty 4, Halo 3, and Company of Heroes receieve continual updates and features regardless of their competitive nature.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I was referring to adding unbalanced characters only, not Downloadable Content in general.

 

[Edfishy]

Ah, I misunderstood.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

I really have hope and faith in DLC. It's my only hope that the characters that weren't in the game (names start with G and K) are going to be added.

Plus, it's such a great idea for them. They could add Ganondorf and WW Link with a new and original moveset, the other clones and semi-clones original abilities and Final Smashes, and hey, what if a new franchise starts to hit off on the Wii? They could add their new mascot into Brawl, and seriously boost their sales!

 

[Darkraid]

What about people who don't have wifi? Should they make a package that includes everything?

 

[PanzerOceania]

They could add Ganondorf and WW Link with a new and original moveset,

I know, I've always been sad for Ganondorf, he needs his sword or trident/spear

but our wishes mean little sadly.

What about people who don't have wifi? Should they make a package that includes everything?

you can hook up your system to wired internet, doesn't need to be wifi (although I think it does need to be broadband) but you might be able to use the internet you are now posting with

they could release a disk, or they could not, either way as long as it wouldn't hinder them from releasing it on-line. They have the Virtual Console and that is only accessible via download and Wii-Ware will be coming soon, sadly they might just be left out but games like Halo 2 have released map pack CDs so you never know.

 

[Chepe]

If there IS going to be downloadable character/costumes, it will probably be only based on stuff already in the game's coding that was ripped, meaning only Mewtwo, Roy, Dr.Mario, Dixie, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik (Tetra?), and Plusle and Minun (but no Pichu) will be possible. Those are the only ones with leftover data still in the game.

However, dont get your hopes up either. These are unfinished for all we know, and might be just as unaccessible as the Fire Emblem stage in Melee...

 

[Darkraid]

Nono my wii has some problems. First of all, it is modded. Second, when i press option, an opera browser error comes out. I can't even do settings.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

Well gee, if you don't have WiFi, I'm sure they might sell/give out "patches" at video game stores, or mail order them. Something like that.

What do the PS3 and X360 games do for their downloadable "patches" and content? Do they have alternate methods of getting them, or is it no internet, no new stuff?

 

[PanzerOceania]

, or is it no internet, no new stuff?

pretty much, although there is the occasional map pack or expansion disk, but that's becoming more rare as whole games are being sold online. You might just be SOL.

 

[Jellybelly]

a download to unlock the data already on the disk?

So dixie, roy and dr.mario?

possible perhaps, there is a bit of content missing

That said, if they took out assists like Rosalina and then sold them back to us, that would be really heartless of nintendo to do as a company.

 

[PanzerOceania]

a download to unlock the data already on the disk?

So dixie, roy and dr.mario?

possible perhaps, there is a bit of content missing

That said, if they took out assists like Rosalina and then sold them back to us, that would be really heartless of nintendo to do as a company.

yeah.... but it wouldn't surprise me in the least of course if this is REALLY true it's only a matter of time before a hacker at least digs the models out of the game, they did that with Sonic 2006 over at Sonic-Cult, if the info is there, someone will find it.

 

[MrLegend]

no way. seriously, no freaking way. stop living in denial. the wii just can't handle storing a new character with its 512mb internal memory. that alone debunks all of this wishful thinking.

 

[iluvnintendo1983]

no way. seriously, no freaking way. stop living in denial. the wii just can't handle storing a new character with its 512mb internal memory. that alone debunks all of this wishful thinking.

Nintendo could easily make a hard drive for the Wii. In fact, they will eventually have to. People who download lots of VC games are going to fill up the Wii's memory sooner or later.

BTW, according to the data that was ripped from the game, the characters only take up about 12MB - 17MB each.

 

[PanzerOceania]

yes it does 100% as of TODAY.

BUT.... with WiiWare coming and a growing library of N64, NeoGeo, PC-Engine etc games and MSX and MSX2 confirmed in japan Nintendo is soon going to be FORCED to increase their storage options, it simple will stop all fitting on the memory. Already even mild VC collectors have to play a game, and then put it on an SD card before the next download because their memory is full. I don't think they will just do nothing with all the new VC titles, it's costing them money as no one wants to mess with it that much. I think they will make a solution available near when they release WiiWare.

does that mean I think that brawl will have DLC? No, I don't really, but none of us can make that judgement call yet.


and as I said earlier, they are known to lie and lie again but they did say Wiiconnect24 existed to provide DLC and upgrades, eventually it would be a good idea to follow up on that promise.

 

[SuperLink9]

It's only possible if they use the character models already stored deep in the game. I still don't think it will happen.

"Don't fly too low, your ship can't take it!"

 

[Jellybelly]

"Don't fly too low, your ship can't take it!"

I know it's off topic, but did the starfox team really have to go through the freakin sun to get to macbeth? I mean come on surely theres an easier way!

*Pointless rant over*

 

[Newuser12345215]

Nintendo could easily make a hard drive for the Wii. In fact, they will eventually have to. People who download lots of VC games are going to fill up the Wii's memory sooner or later.

BTW, according to the data that was ripped from the game, the characters only take up about 12MB - 17MB each.

Yeah 512 MB is a lot actually.

Sure, it's 100-200x less space than a PS3 or a Xbox360 has with a hard drive, but 512MB is enough for downloadable characters and updates. Not to mention they could just store it on a SD card, like others said.

About making a hard drive for the Wii though, I'm not so sure. I guess a USB, connected, hard drive could work but other than that there's no other way to add a hard drive to the Wii(for existing Wii owners that is).

 

[DeuceBlade]

A hard drive could plug right into the back of the wii, and DLC(haracters) are not effected by being balanced anyway since some characters are a bit broken regardless coughMARTHcough

 

[SuperLink9]

So what, Nintendo sell an external HardDrive for £50 or so (dunno how much that is in $... I'm thinking as much as a 360 external hard drive though) and then release a Brawl patch (which I doubt, since they would rather recall a game than patch it... ¬_¬ and say "Only compatible with this £50 thingy!"

 

[firedragon_jing]

Where did the talk of a HDD come from, did you guys even read the first post, I posted a whole section on being able to use the SD cards, and if Nintendo drops the 2GB limit, Wii owners can get up to 32GB per card.

 

[SuperLink9]

Yeah, but the Wii tends to not be able to read data directly from an SD card.

Of course I'm not sure how easily Nintendo would be able to change an SD's function from storage to more like that of a memory card.

32GB would be (As Sakurai would say) H-HUGE!

 

[firedragon_jing]

Yeah, but the Wii tends to not be able to read data directly from an SD card.

Of course I'm not sure how easily Nintendo would be able to change an SD's function from storage to more like that of a memory card.

32GB would be (As Sakurai would say) H-HUGE!

If you didn't follow Sakurai's updates, when he released the stage builder, he said that they save and read off the SD card, so directly reading off the SD card is proven.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Nice thoughts.

Anyways, I think there's a way to counter that... but I think I shouldn't mention it.

 

[Mediator]

this thread makes me happy

they need to make it were we can hook up slaves to the wii

i <3 my 90 gb slave

<3!!!

 

[billywill]

i hope u aren't just getting my hope up