Does Snake have a harder time against Zelda or Toon Link?

[CaliburChamp]

Does Snake have a harder time against Zelda or Toon Link? They both have great projectiles, but one is a power type (Zelda)the other is a combo type character (Toon Link). Which one of the two gives Snake a harder time in your experiences of maining Snake?

 

[mr_kennedy44]

I think that they are about even or Zelda slightly harder. Toon Link's projectiles (especially the annoying boomerang) can really mess Snake's approach game up. It also makes it hard to use 'nades since his boomerang is so big. He can combo you in the air but in my experiences has a tougher time killing you than Zelda does.

Zelda on the other hand can kill Snake a lot easier than TL can. It's relatively easy for her to hit you with a lightning kick while you are on the cypher and in her range. Din's Fire doesn't make anything easier for Snake either. If you recover high than she can just send one up to you forcing you to air dodge or risk getting star KOed. Her smashes also hurt a lot and since Snake is big and heavy it is hard for him to DI out of them.

They are both fairly light so they both die at relatively low percents.

 

[lilinuyasha]

hm...i'd say toon link. if in the right hands, toon link can be unstppable. zelda is kinda the precision character

 

[Semmick]

Toon Link by far.

 

[cheetacuz007]

tlink
snake is pretty bad against characters who can combo him in the air
when im in the air i just fastfall air dodge and maybe an u-air
just stay on the ground and snake should be fine

 

[misterbushido01]

TL probably because his bair is gets snake real good
but i dont think snake should really have a problem with them

 

[CaliburChamp]

Has anyone even fought a good Zelda vs Snake?

 

[Nic64]

personally I have more problems with zelda's than TL, TL can air combo you a bit but you can otherwise shut down his whole game(projectiles) mostly with jabs and tilts, which also outranges his sword. his KO moves are all easy to see coming and frequently decayed, snake's tank like survival factor makes him a ridiculous fight for a character who's biggest weakness is inability to land the killing hit and light weight(bad KO zone : death zone ratio). snake has the edge on either character, though.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Those are some good thoughts Nic. I also think Zelda may be a bit better of a match up than Toon Link vs Snake from the things you mentioned.

 

[Leh]

hm...i'd say toon link. if in the right hands, toon link can be unstppable. zelda is kinda the precision character

You're so wrong that im crying as i type this post.

Though i believe TL is harder then Zelda. NEITHER characters should give a snake player (a good one) a extremely difficult time. Zelda is nothing but smashes (Din Fire and her aerials are a joke), which you can out range with Ftilt. You can easily outcamp her, and her recovery is easy to gimp (if she is forced to up B, quickgrab the ledge to force them to land on the stage, then come up for a free punish). TL, WHILE I DO BELIEVE CAN OUTCAMP SNAKE, is easy to beat. Simply shield his projectiles, and throw a grenade that hes forced to either avoid aerially or atleast shield. If hes in the air, its a free approach, if he shields, its a free approach. While TL's projectiles are good from range, they are horrible up close. All of his projectiles have decent lag before and after the actual projectile comes out. If you're up close enough, its easy to powershield into a free grab/ftilt or if they are in the air a free Ground-to-Air mixup.

 

[The Milk Monster]

The only difficulty I see is Toon Link's speed giving you a problem when trying to stick a C4 or something, and falling into his combo's.
Zelda her projectiles are pretty annoying, but avoidable.
Both are kinda' even in my eyes, maybe Toon Link a hit more tricky.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

Zelda is nothing but smashes (Din Fire and her aerials are a joke), which you can out range with Ftilt.

Her aerials and Din's Fire are not jokes when Snake is on his cypher (he is extremely easy to be gimped by her it's not even funny). Also Snake is a relatively large target making it easier for Zelda to sweetspot a lightning kick. Her U-Air has insane kill power and is disjointed also.

She does have more than just smashes.

 

[Leh]

Her aerials and Din's Fire are not jokes when Snake is on his cypher (he is extremely easy to be gimped by her it's not even funny). Also Snake is a relatively large target making it easier for Zelda to sweetspot a lightning kick. Her U-Air has insane kill power and is disjointed also.

She does have more than just smashes.

All of which are POINTLESS if you recover high, her jumps are super slow, and so easy to see coming its not funny. Theres no way she could POSSIBLY reach you with a aerial if you got knocked off the stage and recovered high. On the way down, its easy to grenade momentum change to fake her out, OR IF THAT IS TO HARD fastfall airdodge to avoid her slow easy to see coming aerials. Din Fire is a joke of a projectile. I could see you getting hit on your way up while recovering once knocked off the stage. But its see easy to see coming. If a Zelda winds up a Din's Fire, if you air dodge through it theres no way you WONT hit the ground before they can follow up with a aerial.

For straight ground game, Din's Fire and lightning Kick are jokes. The sweetspot area of lightning kick is easily avoided if you are spacing Ftilts and Dash attacking to punish her attacks. If you're close range, you wont be sweetspotted and if you're using your grenades to camp her, theres REALLY no way you'll get hit by lightning kick. Her U-Air is a joke, while its good vs characters with little to no aerial mobility, Snake can instantly shift his momentum in the air. With the grenade momentum air trick (w/e its actually called). If shes ever DIRECTYL under you, just switch momentum, if shes not.. just airdodge.

As for your commenting on gimping, theres no way in hell Zelda could gimp you outside of the normal "grab the cypher" if you are recovering from under the stage (WHICH SHOULDNT HAPPEN VS ZELDA).

The only thing she has on you is Upsmash as you return to the stage. And her Fsmash WILL beat out Ftilt (which you can shield..then just punish with Ftilt).

 

[O D I N]

Has anyone even fought a good Zelda vs Snake?

My fiance (Elana/Gameangel64) plays Zelda. The biggest thing Zelda has in her arsenal is Din's fire; which can easily knock you out of your Cypher. The fact that the blast radius gets bigger the farther it travels, makes dodging it while recovering tricky. Snake has the advantage in more projectiles, speed (snakeboarding, as I call it), and those manly utilts. Zelda is a light weight compared to Snake. This is a game of patience, in every sense of the word. Watch for Din spams, and Nayru's love for returning grenades.


I can offer more later, after work, or I'll just stop babbling. ^_^;;

 

[CaliburChamp]

It seems like Zelda has an easier time gimping Snake more than Toon Link. Because her Din's Fire is capable of hitting Snake out of cypher, and since good Snakes recover up high on the screen, it makes dins fire more useful because Snake is closer to the blast radius.

Still seems like Toon Link may be better of a match up according to what the Snake players are saying.

 

[Leh]

Getting hit out of your cypher wont Gimp you. DIn fire wont kill you until almost 130% as long as you are DIing it correctly, and im refering to if you get hit while high in the air. And again, its so easy to avoid...

Zelda cant gimp Snake, Din Fire wont kill you until atleast 130% as long as you DI, and thats if you are high in the air. On the ground...lol..

 

[CaliburChamp]

Getting hit out of your cypher wont Gimp you. DIn fire wont kill you until almost 130% as long as you are DIing it correctly, and im refering to if you get hit while high in the air. And again, its so easy to avoid...

Zelda cant gimp Snake, Din Fire wont kill you until atleast 130% as long as you DI, and thats if you are high in the air. On the ground...lol..

Yes, you do have a valid point there. Snake is absurdly heavy, even if he is high up on the screen.

 

[mc4]

I definitely think toon link, i've played against a few really good ones and for the first times i played em i got beat because i didn't know how to adjust to the distance. When you're approaching they spam boomerangs, arrows bombs, etc, then space nairs or bairs usually as soon as you're in range of their sword and snake is easily air combo'd because of his heavy weight. Fortunately i adjusted and figured out some good strategies to play them and do pretty good against em, you just have to play extremely defensive. Zeldas will usually stand still and smash f smashes or dins fire so you can easily draw them in to you by grenading or just use your shields when your inrange for an attack a shield grab or something.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Yeah, in my personal opinion, Toon's spacing game gives me a problem, and the fact Snake will get air comboed so easily gives me problems.
Zelda, if she gets a hit off, I can deal, Snake's a tank, I can react quick enough to get some damage.

 

[-Mars-]

All of which are POINTLESS if you recover high, her jumps are super slow, and so easy to see coming its not funny. Theres no way she could POSSIBLY reach you with a aerial if you got knocked off the stage and recovered high. On the way down, its easy to grenade momentum change to fake her out, OR IF THAT IS TO HARD fastfall airdodge to avoid her slow easy to see coming aerials. Din Fire is a joke of a projectile. I could see you getting hit on your way up while recovering once knocked off the stage. But its see easy to see coming. If a Zelda winds up a Din's Fire, if you air dodge through it theres no way you WONT hit the ground before they can follow up with a aerial.

For straight ground game, Din's Fire and lightning Kick are jokes. The sweetspot area of lightning kick is easily avoided if you are spacing Ftilts and Dash attacking to punish her attacks. If you're close range, you wont be sweetspotted and if you're using your grenades to camp her, theres REALLY no way you'll get hit by lightning kick. Her U-Air is a joke, while its good vs characters with little to no aerial mobility, Snake can instantly shift his momentum in the air. With the grenade momentum air trick (w/e its actually called). If shes ever DIRECTYL under you, just switch momentum, if shes not.. just airdodge.

As for your commenting on gimping, theres no way in hell Zelda could gimp you outside of the normal "grab the cypher" if you are recovering from under the stage (WHICH SHOULDNT HAPPEN VS ZELDA).

The only thing she has on you is Upsmash as you return to the stage. And her Fsmash WILL beat out Ftilt (which you can shield..then just punish with Ftilt).

Bair out of shield is very easy to sweetspot on the ground, especially for a large character like Snake.

If your recovering from under the stage, I can spike or even stagespike you. If your even recovering anywhere but extremely high up, I get a free lightning kick..........what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Leh]

Bair out of shield is very easy to sweetspot on the ground, especially for a large character like Snake.

If your recovering from under the stage, I can spike or even stagespike you. If your even recovering anywhere but extremely high up, I get a free lightning kick..........what the hell are you talking about?

You are completley ********, maybe you get a free kick if i've either forgetten how to Air Dodge or atleast Neutral Air FF to the ground. And like i said, theres only 2 distances you should be standing vs Zelda, really far camping, or really close attacking (both which are NOT in her sweetspot range). If im recovering from under the stage, the snake DI'd wrong, any hit zelda does to you (OBVIOUSLY with the exception of Dair) will send you high.

If the snake player sees Zelda attempt to jump up and attack them as they recover over the stage (the only GOOD way to recover as snake btw) you have multiple options
A: AirDodge to the ground, though not always the safest option
B: neutral Air FastFall due to Nair's high priority, will often hit them and get you to the ground safely (only to be done if they are air chasing you
C: Grenade Momentum Switch thing (i dont know what its called yet, but it allows you to instantly switch your momentum in the air from one direction to another, so if someone is on your left and you switch to the right, theres no way they'll be able to follow up)
Theres more options but im not gonna go through all of them.

I dont know who you play but dont come here with that "i get a free lightning kick" ****, seriously do you play 10 year old kids that just fall to the ground and hope you'll miss your attack?

 

[napZzz]

I cant stand spammy toon links ~_~

Its so hard to approach them.

 

[Leh]

I cant stand spammy toon links ~_~

Its so hard to approach them.

Yes the approach is difficult but remember that not only does TL have wind up time but he has wind down time. After throwing any projectile (except for bomb) theres a good amount of lag that allows a decent approach.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Agreed with Leh.
A couple solid attacks with Snake and a TL is pretty screwed.

 

[mikeman]

i dont really main snake but when i did play him agaisnt a zeldamthe person kicked my butt lol and i beat a toon link with snake before it seems zelda is more harder to beat with snake

 

[The Milk Monster]

You are completley ********, maybe you get a free kick if i've either forgetten how to Air Dodge or atleast Neutral Air FF to the ground. And like i said, theres only 2 distances you should be standing vs Zelda, really far camping, or really close attacking (both which are NOT in her sweetspot range). If im recovering from under the stage, the snake DI'd wrong, any hit zelda does to you (OBVIOUSLY with the exception of Dair) will send you high.

If the snake player sees Zelda attempt to jump up and attack them as they recover over the stage (the only GOOD way to recover as snake btw) you have multiple options
A: AirDodge to the ground, though not always the safest option
B: neutral Air FastFall due to Nair's high priority, will often hit them and get you to the ground safely (only to be done if they are air chasing you
C: Grenade Momentum Switch thing (i dont know what its called yet, but it allows you to instantly switch your momentum in the air from one direction to another, so if someone is on your left and you switch to the right, theres no way they'll be able to follow up)
Theres more options but im not gonna go through all of them.

I dont know who you play but dont come here with that "i get a free lightning kick" ****, seriously do you play 10 year old kids that just fall to the ground and hope you'll miss your attack?

And if you were to attempt to come after someone under lets say Final D, more then likely you'll get gayed, Zelda's recovery, in my experience is a lot like Wolf's.

 

[Alopex]

I'll give you guys a hint that I don't think you've picked on, probably because you guys haven't fought many Zeldas, since there aren't THAT many of them out there:

You cypher, she Din's. You guys know this, this is obvious.

After the Din's hits, your only option is to cypher again, which she can Din's again.
The Din's won't kill you. Zeldas know this. Killing you, through power or gimp, isn't the point of the Din's barrage.

The point is that enough Din's will refresh her moves. Namely, her USmash. This move decays a lot since they'll use it to rack up damage. When this move is fresh, though, it's her best KO move. You don't want this move to be fresh, since it's a ridiculously easy move to land on just about anyone.

Also remember that you Snakes always go for a high recovery, always being above Zelda. Well, Zeldas WANT you above her. That's where she's at her best. If she can't land a lightning kick on you, then you'll get Din'sed precisely to force you to go above her, since Din's sends you up. You should know that it's never safe above Zelda.

Also, they have a Dsmash. It's one of the fastest in the game and it boasts great strength. Why does this matter? Because it sends you downwards off the stage. This is when they'll go for a lightning kick. As soon as you cypher after the Dsmash, you become lightning kick targets and a fast Zelda would be capable of capitalizing on that.

Just tossing that out there.

 

[Leh]

I'll give you guys a hint that I don't think you've picked on, probably because you guys haven't fought many Zeldas, since there aren't THAT many of them out there:

You cypher, she Din's. You guys know this, this is obvious.

After the Din's hits, your only option is to cypher again, which she can Din's again.
The Din's won't kill you. Zeldas know this. Killing you, through power or gimp, isn't the point of the Din's barrage.

The point is that enough Din's will refresh her moves. Namely, her USmash. This move decays a lot since they'll use it to rack up damage. When this move is fresh, though, it's her best KO move. You don't want this move to be fresh, since it's a ridiculously easy move to land on just about anyone.

Also remember that you Snakes always go for a high recovery, always being above Zelda. Well, Zeldas WANT you above her. That's where she's at her best. If she can't land a lightning kick on you, then you'll get Din'sed precisely to force you to go above her, since Din's sends you up. You should know that it's never safe above Zelda.

Also, they have a Dsmash. It's one of the fastest in the game and it boasts great strength. Why does this matter? Because it sends you downwards off the stage. This is when they'll go for a lightning kick. As soon as you cypher after the Dsmash, you become lightning kick targets and a fast Zelda would be capable of capitalizing on that.

Just tossing that out there.

A couple of things to note, but before i respond very nice post

1. If you do get hit by Din's Fire, your immediate thinking is to Cypher again but you must realize that this is nto your only option. Since Din's Fire will send you directly up (and toward the stage if you DI so) you'll always have the ability to at the very least air dodge THEN cypher. The Upsmash problem is easily avoidable by mixing up landing on platforms (if they are there), grenade switch and using your Cypher at intelligent times. If you still have the Cypher (like after being hit by a Dins Fire) you can drop a C4 in the air to cover your air-to-ground approach, i doubt any Zelda player will risk getting hit by the C4 (especially since Zelda isnt exactly Heavy). Due to snakes various options in the air, and through using platforms (if they are there) its very easy to avoid Zelda's Upsmash.

2. The Dsmash example you give is good, but its also simply to powerful for her to do any follow up other then Dins Fire, which i covered in above posts. If it knocks you off the stage, DJ UpB will give you enough momentum to avoid Lightning Kick (though you may get hit by Dins Fire, i doubt you'll die). Zelda's Dsmash, though very fast, has extremely short range. If you are spacing Ftilts, your far out of range from that.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Yeah air dodging the Fire then cyphering is usually what I do, as long as I know I won't fall too far and such.

And in Leh's behalf, I agree Zelda's wouldn't risk getting hit by the C4, since she isn't the heaviest char in the world.

And the Down Smash would normally knock too far (Given the Snake's percent is relatively high), a well spaced ftilt should knock the Zelda out of the Dsmash, since Snake's ftilt has god range.

 

[Nic64]

You cypher, she Din's. You guys know this, this is obvious.

After the Din's hits...

don't...get hit? it's not a hard projectile to avoid at all, if she's consistently hitting you out of cypher with it you are doing something wrong. zelda gimping snake is the least of his worries, most of her KOs will come from that **** up smash

 

[The Milk Monster]

don't...get hit? it's not a hard projectile to avoid at all, if she's consistently hitting you out of cypher with it you are doing something wrong. zelda gimping snake is the least of his worries, most of her KOs will come from that **** up smash

On average, I would say really any of her smashes, or maybe an up air since it hits like 5 trains.

 

[Nic64]

up air is pretty easy to avoid though, and I don't get killed too much by forward or down smash against zelda...as snake anyway, although the dsmash does give you a bad trajectory that can force you dangerously close to the stage when recovering, I rarely get killed with it but it can definitely put you in bad situations

 

[Joker490Frozen]

I'll have to say TL since his projectiles are a bit faster and he can camp pretty well, and with Zelda besides spamming her side-B which can be dodge fairly easy, her tilts which can be counter by using your own tilts or using projectiles, but that's just me.

 

[-Mars-]

You are completley ********, maybe you get a free kick if i've either forgetten how to Air Dodge or atleast Neutral Air FF to the ground. And like i said, theres only 2 distances you should be standing vs Zelda, really far camping, or really close attacking (both which are NOT in her sweetspot range). If im recovering from under the stage, the snake DI'd wrong, any hit zelda does to you (OBVIOUSLY with the exception of Dair) will send you high.

If the snake player sees Zelda attempt to jump up and attack them as they recover over the stage (the only GOOD way to recover as snake btw) you have multiple options
A: AirDodge to the ground, though not always the safest option
B: neutral Air FastFall due to Nair's high priority, will often hit them and get you to the ground safely (only to be done if they are air chasing you
C: Grenade Momentum Switch thing (i dont know what its called yet, but it allows you to instantly switch your momentum in the air from one direction to another, so if someone is on your left and you switch to the right, theres no way they'll be able to follow up)
Theres more options but im not gonna go through all of them.

I dont know who you play but dont come here with that "i get a free lightning kick" ****, seriously do you play 10 year old kids that just fall to the ground and hope you'll miss your attack?

You are an idiot, I specifically said if you are recovering under the stage. Dsmash sets Snake up for trouble with it's trajectory, so if you're ever hit with it............your in trouble. I didn't say anything about landing kicks if Snake is recovering above the stage. Learn to read and comprehend posts correctly before you try to insult people.

Look here at 2:47- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXy-KIozjas&feature=related

Unless Snake has the chance to recover very high, Zelda does have options off the stage.

 

[Donkey Bong]

i'd say zelda... angel describes the matchup as "inch forward: shield dins fire. inch forward: shield. inch forward: shield, etc."

 

[-Mars-]

i'd say zelda... angel describes the matchup as "inch forward: shield dins fire. inch forward: shield. inch forward: shield, etc."

Why not just SH airdodge? Dins fire is crap for a camping projectile........you can not camp with Dins.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Din's fire isn't crap for a camping projectile...but Snake does have ways around it.

 

[Leh]

You are an idiot, I specifically said if you are recovering under the stage. Dsmash sets Snake up for trouble with it's trajectory, so if you're ever hit with it............your in trouble. I didn't say anything about landing kicks if Snake is recovering above the stage. Learn to read and comprehend posts correctly before you try to insult people.

Look here at 2:47- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXy-KIozjas&feature=related

Unless Snake has the chance to recover very high, Zelda does have options off the stage.

Dsmash is to powerful for a follow up, even if you are hit by Dsmash at low percents, if you DJ then UpB theres no way Zelda can follow up. I mentioned that in my post, YOU should learn to read and comprehend, idiot.

I didnt watch the video i really dont care enough about this thread.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Snake Definitely has a harder time against zelda, trust me i play all three characters.

 

[-Mars-]

Dsmash is to powerful for a follow up, even if you are hit by Dsmash at low percents, if you DJ then UpB theres no way Zelda can follow up. I mentioned that in my post, YOU should learn to read and comprehend, idiot.

I didnt watch the video i really dont care enough about this thread.

Dsmash can be Di'ed at the higher percents and then you have to recover low.

If you don't care then stop posting.