Does Ryu's Tatsu have a guardpoint or clash?

[PapaJ]

So while messing with Ryu in For Glory it seems Ryus true Tatsu would often hit while an opponent was doing their own attack. It seems that when this clash would happen a blue hitspark would appear and then the opponent would go through the rest of their animation before getting hit by my tatsu. The only times I have seen this in the game is when you try and hit Bowser and G&W during their Up Smash, they seem to have guardpoint as they take no damage and continue the move as normal. I was just wondering if anyone else has gotten this, accidentally or otherwise. I feel if we can get some info on this it would be a great asset for Ryu to have.

Edit: Some clarification. It seems to only work in the beginning of the tatsu. I do not have any info on what types of attack it can stop, such as smashes, tilts, etc. If anyone has more concrete info could you post it in this thread? Thanks

Edit 2: After taking in everyones information and Smash 4's priority system I believe what happens when Ryu's tatsu encounters a stronger move is this:

1) The game checks Hitbox Vs Hitbox before Hitbox vs Hurtbox.
2) Because of this it checks Ryu's leg since that's his hitbox
3) The game realizes it's not strong enough to stop the attack
4) It tries to put Ryu in a reeling animation but it can't because it's a special move.
5) Ryu's leg goes behind him meaning the opponents attack has nothing to connect to
6) Ryu's leg comes back out in front with another hitbox connected to it an hits the opponent.

So we don't have guardpoint we simply clash but due to Ryu's tatsu being unique from other special moves because his leg goes Foward,Backward,Forward,backward we can essentially "cheat" the clash system by removing our exposed leg before it can be connected with the stronger move. This means we avoid harm and attack with the returning hitbox.

 

[Elessar]

So while messing with Ryu in For Glory it seems Ryus true Tatsu would often hit while an opponent was doing their own attack. It seems that when this clash would happen a blue hitspark would appear and then the opponent would go through the rest of their animation before getting hit by my tatsu. The only times I have seen this in the game is when you try and hit Bowser and G&W during their Up Smash, they seem to have guardpoint as they take no damage and continue the move as normal. I was just wondering if anyone else has gotten this, accidentally or otherwise. I feel if we can get some info on this it would be a great asset for Ryu to have.

Edit: Some clarification. It seems to only work in the beginning of the tatsu. I do not have any info on what types of attack it can stop, such as smashes, tilts, etc. If anyone has more concrete info could you post it in this thread? Thanks

While I haven't tested this yet, I think that even if it did have it might not be a good idea to use it to challenge other attacks. Tatsu has only one hitbox, once it hits something there is no other hitbox to protect you while Ryu is still performing the animation. Therefore, if it clashes you may end up losing that hitbox and they have to deal with some severe punish. As I said, I haven't tested it yet, just something I think could be am issue.

 

[PapaJ]

While I haven't tested this yet, I think that even if it did have it might not be a good idea to use it to challenge other attacks. Tatsu has only one hitbox, once it hits something there is no other hitbox to protect you while Ryu is still performing the animation. Therefore, if it clashes you may end up losing that hitbox and they have to deal with some severe punish. As I said, I haven't tested it yet, just something I think could be am issue.

No see thats the thing. It has stopped tthe attack and I have been able to continue the attack as normal. It only stops the opponent not Ryu.

 

[.Shìkì]

No see thats the thing. It has stopped tthe attack and I have been able to continue the attack as normal. It only stops the opponent not Ryu.

I'm pretty sure True Tatsu , just like True Shoryu, has invincibility frames. So my guess is thats what's happening because , from the way i read it, it is the same thing that happens when someone tries to counter a true Shoryuken. Counter clank and animation happens but Shoryu continues as normal.

 

[Elessar]

I'm pretty sure True Tatsu , just like True Shoryu, has invincibility frames. So my guess is thats what's happening because , from the way i read it, it is the same thing that happens when someone tries to counter a true Shoryuken. Counter clank and animation happens but Shoryu continues as normal.

That's a good point. It should be tested because they Nintendo Direct didn't mention anything regarding true Tatsu.

 

[icraq]

Tatsu's priority reminds me of how Luma clashes.
If Luma's hitbox comes in contact with a hitbox, Luma and the owner of the other hitbox share no damage or knock back. But the other hitbox that isn't Luma can still damage other hurtboxes, like Rosalina's. It's like Ryus foot spinning around him is negating a hitbox, like a projectile, but if the hitbox is able to also touch Ryus hurtbox he takes damage. That's what happens with Luma. If the move clashing with Luma can simultaneously hit its hurtbox, Luma will take damage.

 

[PapaJ]

Yeah if anyone else can confirm or deny this that would be great so that way I dont look insane over the idea Ryu's tatsu can eat certain attacks.

 

[Bobert]

I'm pretty sure his leg has invincibility frames during the move if you're using the SF input(haven't tested side b). I tested this recently with my brother. Ryus leg would always go right through a full Charge Shot from Samus but he gets hit every time if the charge shot hits his sides or back during the spinning animation

 

[PapaJ]

I'm pretty sure his leg has invincibility frames during the move if you're using the SF input(haven't tested side b). I tested this recently with my brother. Ryus leg would always go right through a full Charge Shot from Samus but he gets hit every time if the charge shot hits his sides or back during the spinning animation

Ok so his legs have invincibility and the tatsu actually ate the fully charged shot? Like, did the charge shot disappear and Ryu kept spinning? The only reason I ask is too make sure I'm understanding the situation right.

 

[Bobert]

Ok so his legs have invincibility and the tatsu actually ate the fully charged shot? Like, did the charge shot disappear and Ryu kept spinning?

He powers through it like a champion among men...unless it hits him from behind. I just tested it again and I can confirm for sure that his leg is the only invincible part of the move. But he does indeed go right through the charge shot like nothing and it vanishes. It's not exactly a good idea to try to use it to go through projectiles because you're basically gambling. Maybe if you use it right when a projectile gets close though?

 

[PapaJ]

He powers through it like a champion among men...unless it hits him from behind. I just tested it again and I can confirm for sure that his leg is the only invincible part of the move. But he does indeed go right through the charge shot like nothing. It's not exactly a good idea to try to use it to go through projectiles because you're basically gambling. Maybe if you use it right when a projectile gets close though?

So he can stop a move that does 25% damage? Damn, if it weren't for the spinning motion of the attack this would be an awesome option to incorporate vs projectile users. Guess Ryu mains need to practice when the hitbox is in front of them to be able to do stuff like this. Thanks for testing this out man this should help Ryu's meta quite a bit.

 

[Bobert]

So he can stop a move that does 25% damage? Damn, if it weren't for the spinning motion of the attack this would be an awesome option to incorporate vs projectile users. Guess Ryu mains need to practice when the hitbox is in front of them to be able to do stuff like this. Thanks for testing this out man this should help Ryu's meta quite a bit.

Always glad to help out fellow smashers. Ryu going right through Charge Shot though had me like

 

[PapaJ]

Always glad to help out fellow smashers. Ryu going right through Charge Shot though had me like

Ha, if someone does this at CEO the Twitch chat's probably gonna blow up. Can't wait to see Ryu killing at CEO, hopefully.

 

[.Shìkì]

He powers through it like a champion among men...unless it hits him from behind. I just tested it again and I can confirm for sure that his leg is the only invincible part of the move. But he does indeed go right through the charge shot like nothing and it vanishes. It's not exactly a good idea to try to use it to go through projectiles because you're basically gambling. Maybe if you use it right when a projectile gets close though?

If thats true, and (taken from the other thread) it also works on weak side-tilt and downsmash... can you test if it works for f-air too? That has a stretched leg and a long lasting hitbox, so if the same rules apply we have pretty much found the approach-tool ... (Mind you, i don't mean specifically Samus' charge shot, but also the likes of Links bombs or arrows would be fine)

 

[icraq]

Fair I'm almost certain has invincibility on his foot so it should work. The issue is it needs to tank the full hit,his leg is not invincible.

 

[Bobert]

If thats true, and (taken from the other thread) it also works on weak side-tilt and downsmash... can you test if it works for f-air too? That has a stretched leg and a long lasting hitbox, so if the same rules apply we have pretty much found the approach-tool ... (Mind you, i don't mean specifically Samus' charge shot, but also the likes of Links bombs or arrows would be fine)

I'm unable to test right now but I did try hitting the bomb-ombs with fair and I got hit every time even when I perfectly spaced it. Down Smash and Ftilt worked every time though. I also tried down smash against a smart bomb and got pulled in every time instantly but it seemed like I was completely invincible for a second when I hit it with a spaced ftilt. I think he just doesn't get hit by the bomb when using down smash because like the tatsu, it kind of has a spinning hitbox? Basically, his leg comes right back to him fast enough to escape the bombs explosion I guess.

Edit: I'm pretty sure his leg is invincible during ftilt but he's not invincible during down smash.

 

[PapaJ]

Well we still have Dsmash, Weak Ftilt, and Tatsu. We can work with these

 

[icraq]

Utilt 2 safely destroys bombs above Ryu on battlefield. It's safe to say his fists are made of steel as well.

 

[Bobert]

Utilt 2 safely destroys bombs above Ryu on battlefield. It's safe to say his fists are made of steel as well.

Yeah I tried it with a smart bomb. The explosion covered his whole fist and head without doing anything for a second. Using up smash got me hit instantly though. His head and fist are invincible during strong up tilt I'm sure.

Actually, I'm wrong. His foot on down smash actually is invincible. I just wasn't spacing it correctly. It's more like his toes though really.

 

[.Shìkì]

Actually, I'm wrong. His foot on down smash actually is invincible. I just wasn't spacing it correctly. It's more like his toes though really.

I just wish f-air was the same :<

 

[Bobert]

Also, Side B Input Tatsu went right through charge shot as well.

 

[PapaJ]

Also, Side B Input Tatsu went right through charge shot as well.

damn so we dont even need to do the input then. Nice find man.

 

[Bobert]

damn so we dont even need to do the input then. Nice find man.

Actually, I might be wrong about the Side B Tatsu. I kept getting hit by Charge Shot and other times he would go right through but he goes through more often with SF Input. I think the charge shot staling had something to do with it since we were testing over 3DS Local so I guess just stick with the SF Input.

Edit: I've made a big mistake it seems. Tatsu only goes through charge shot if it's staled. I completely forgot about staling so sadly, we can't Tatsu right through a fresh charge shot. But we still definitely aren't invincible anytime during the move like some people have said(being completely invincible through out the whole move). Forgive me.

Double post

 

[PapaJ]

Actually, I might be wrong about the Side B Tatsu. I kept getting hit by Charge Shot and other times he would go right through but he goes through more often with SF Input. I think the charge shot staling had something to do with it since we were testing over 3DS Local so I guess just stick with the SF Input.

Edit: I've made a big mistake it seems. Tatsu only goes through charge shot if it's staled. I completely forgot about staling so sadly, we can't Tatsu right through a fresh charge shot. But we still definitely aren't invincible anytime during the move. Forgive me.

So even if we use the true input it won't stop a Fresh charge shot? Hmm, Samus's normmal charge shot does 25% and we saw someone bypassing a DK using a hammer, which I think is 23%. Ill try to test what we can't and can pass through and if it has to be stale or not.

 

[Bobert]

So even if we use the true input it won't stop a Fresh charge shot? Hmm, Samus's normmal charge shot does 25% and we saw someone bypassing a DK using a hammer, which I think is 23%. Ill try to test what we can't and can pass through and if it has to be stale or not.

I just tested it again. Ryu goes through the completely staled charge shot every time which does 14%. He might not be invincible technically but he outright beats other moves it seems.

Edit: Not everytime but like 90% of the time.

I can't test right now at the moment so let me know what you find.

 

[roymustang1990-]

So even if we use the true input it won't stop a Fresh charge shot? Hmm, Samus's normmal charge shot does 25% and we saw someone bypassing a DK using a hammer, which I think is 23%. Ill try to test what we can't and can pass through and if it has to be stale or not.

Yup. My testing with the black hammer. Ryu's side b tatsu had clanked and lunged right through.Hammer does 27%.

Also,I don't think staleness has anything to do whether ryu's side b tatsu decides to be invincible or not(at the tip of the attack,the foot) as the move had also lunged through a 80% lucario FRESH fully charged aura sphere in my testing against it in training mode.

 

[Bobert]

Yup. My testing with the black hammer. Ryu's side b tatsu had clanked and lunged right through.Hammer does 27%.

Also,I don't think staleness has anything to do whether ryu's side b tatsu decides to be invincible or not(at the tip of the attack,the foot) as the move had also lunged through a 80% lucario FRESH fully charged aura sphere in my testing against it in training mode.

Really? After testing again earlier, the charge shot beat me nearly every time until it went stale. After staling, I could go right through with Tatsu 9 out of 10 times.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Really? After testing again earlier, the charge shot beat me nearly every time until it went stale. After staling, I could go right through with Tatsu 9 out of 10 times.

Okay.It's legit. I just testing myself in training mode(where moves don't go stale) and the samus's charge shot had beat ryu's side b every time.

 

[PapaJ]

Hm, this is all strange if hammer can be bypassed, which it does more, but charge shot can't it might have to do with the hitboxs and not the actual damage values?

 

[roymustang1990-]

Really? After testing again earlier, the charge shot beat me nearly every time until it went stale. After staling, I could go right through with Tatsu 9 out of 10 times.

Bit of a question cynado.I'm asking because I'm still I finding myself still getting hit by Samus's charged shot after tatsu'ing even after the move had staled(in a regular smash match) which makes me think that Ryu seems to only have invincibility a little by after the active frames have begun? which makes me want to think that a early tatsu is better than a late tatsu because it actually plunges through a samus's late charged shot when they're both idled at the edge of course.

Hm, this is all strange if hammer can be bypassed, which it does more, but charge shot can't it might have to do with the hitboxs and not the actual damage values?

Damage percentage doesn't seem to be a requirement as I had forgotten to mentioned with my testing against the hammer a few days back that dair,fair,bair,nair,uair,f smash,strong jab,weak and strong f tilt were also clanking.

 

[PapaJ]

Damage percentage doesn't seem to be a requirement as I had forgotten to mentioned with my testing against the hammer a few days back that dair,fair,bair,nair,uair,f smash,strong jab,weak and strong f tilt were also clanking.

So it seems that Ryu only gets the Iframes in the very early beginning of tatsu (maybe the 1st spin only?)

 

[roymustang1990-]

So it seems that Ryu only gets the Iframes in the very early beginning of tatsu (maybe the 1st spin only?)

Testing against samus's full charged shot again.

I can safely confirmed that Ryu's tatsu i frames are definitely active during the second spin,but not the first as it plunged through the charged shot like nothing,only stale?

 

[PapaJ]

Testing against samus's full charged shot again.

I can safely confirmed that Ryu's tatsu i frames are definitely active during the second spin,but not the first as it plunged through the charged shot like nothing,only stale?

So it the 1st spin is vulnerable and the second we get Iframes then i assume it's gone for the rest of the move?

 

[roymustang1990-]

So it the 1st spin is vulnerable and the second we get Iframes then i assume it's gone for the rest of the move?

Sorry for the misconfirmed.

The first spin actually also has I frames just like the second,only after samus's charged shots became stale though. I got hit out of the third spin every time though. Fourth spin had no I frames. Unsure about the fifth.

 

[PapaJ]

Sorry for the misconfirmed.

The first spin actually also has I frames just like the second,only after samus's charged shots became stale though. I got hit out of the three spin every time though. Not sure about the fourth and fifth as that's difficult to test by myself.

Hmm how much do the Staled Charged shots do. If they deal ~22% That's where normal priority would kick in. Since Ryu's Tatsu does 9/12/13 that means at minimum anything that does 18% will be out-prioritized and at max 22%. We Also know for a fact Ryu's tatsu stopped the hammer (27%). Which cannot happen unless Ryu's tatsu does 18%. So there is something going on we're just not 100% sure it is. So for now it's safe to say he can out-prioritize certain moves not all of them.

 

[PapaJ]

Ok I just did some test's myself.
Fresh - 26
Hit 1 - 23
Hit 2 - 21
Hit 3 - 19
Hit 4 - 18
Hit 5 - 17
Hit 6 - 15
Hit 7 - 14
Hit 8 - 14
Hit 9 - 14
Hit 10 - 13

Lowest it goes is 13.x percent. So With this info that means Ryu can use tatsu to bypass a charge shot that has been used twice prior. This can stay as the charge shot stays in the "stale move list" so even if he hits us with 5 other attacks it might be staled enough.

While this explains charge shot this still doesn't explain the hammer since items can't be staled iirc. Ill run some test on that too.

Edit: Just tested hammer every single hit does 27% no stale move negation and no sourspots. So we have a partial answer. he does have some sort of priority bonus when using Tatsu we just don't know the specifics.

Edit 2- Just beat out hammer on the first,third and fourth spins. Also I accidentally jabbed it and it clashed. I was automatically sent into a reeling animation right after it though then hit by the hammer. So it seems a move that does 2% can clash with a hammer, although the difference being I was put into a reeling animation.

I also managed to use the one spin Tatsu to bypass the hammer. Also aerial tatsu clashed with the hammer.

Also I use Strong neutral. I managed to hit the player but I went into another reeling animation. I did it again and hit the hammer and went into a reeling animation.

So, either Smash 4's priority is much much different then other smash games are it could be the hammer item itself. In either case I can assume specials are different than normal moves in the fact you do not suffer a reeling animation. If this is the case it would be possible to bypass a normal players moves and damage them as long as we time the hitbox correctly. It seems it could be a risky took but possible to take advantage of.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Hmm how much do the Staled Charged shots do. If they deal ~22% That's where normal priority would kick in. Since Ryu's Tatsu does 9/12/13 that means at minimum anything that does 18% will be out-prioritized and at max 22%. We Also know for a fact Ryu's tatsu stopped the hammer (27%). Which cannot happen unless Ryu's tatsu does 18%. So there is something going on we're just not 100% sure it is. So for now it's safe to say he can out-prioritize certain moves not all of them.

Stale,full charged shots for samus did about 17 % each and then dropped to 13%

And good information collect on the hammer. About time!

Glad your testing this yourself now

 

[PapaJ]

Stale,full charged shots for samus did about 17 % each and then dropped to 13%

And good information collect on the hammer. About time!

Glad your testing this yourself now

Well I have been on the side it's Just my tests are slower and more prone to error (because of the CPU's). So unless it's combos I'm reluctant to show any data because of the larger chance it may be inaccurate.

Edit: For example I cannot accurately test other players normals, tilts, special and smashes as the CPU will either A) not throw it out or B) Dodge my attack and counter. So right now im limited to testing items that force an attack, Hammer and Golden hammer.

Edit 2: Speaking of Golden hammers I tested those as well. 30% damage and no staling. Ryu can still bypass these hammers as well. So I have no idea. Maybe Smash 4's priority is different and just punishes the player with less priority with a reeling animation which is bypassed by special moves?

One way to test this would be to use Bowsers Fsmash and have another character try and clash with it with a move that is weaker then it. If Bowsers Fsmash doesn't cause them to reel and instead just hits them regardless of their move then priority is the same and it's Ryu's Tatsu. However if the opponent can "clash" with his Fmash with a move that has more than 9% less and he's put into a reeling animation that means priority in smash 4 is different and instead of getting the fit the opponent is put into a reeling state and the stronger move finishes it's animation as normal.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Well I have been on the side it's Just my tests are slower and more prone to error (because of the CPU's). So unless it's combos I'm reluctant to show any data because of the larger chance it may be inaccurate.

Edit: For example I cannot accurately test other players normals, tilts, special and smashes as the CPU will either A) not throw it out or B) Dodge my attack and counter. So right now im limited to testing items that force an attack, Hammer and Golden hammer.

Well,even so. You definitely got a better handle on testing than I do as I've never attempted to try it until a few days ago.

I can see where your coming from. I always felt that training mode could have used a record feature like the one you see from street fighter four. Would make things so much more simpler.

 

[PapaJ]

Well,even so. You definitely got a better handle on testing than I do as I've never attempted to try it until a few days ago.

I can see where your coming from. I always felt that training mode could have used a record feature like the one you see from street fighter four. Would make things so much more simpler.

Having a record mode, an ability to turn off/on Stale move negation and Rage would be so amazing and make gathering data so much more solo-friendly.