Does Ryu's Tatsu have a guardpoint or clash?

[icraq]

I just safely tatsu'd through a bobomb
Not sure if this confirms anything though.

 

[PapaJ]

I just safely tatsu'd through a bobomb
Not sure if this confirms anything though.

Ok so a Bob-omb does 25% damage no SMG since it's an item. Bowsers Fsmash does 23% Meaning if he clanks with it like Ryu then it's a prioity thing in general. If he cannot then it's a trait unique to Ryu's tatsu, since Ryus tatsu can only Clank with moves that do 22%.

Edit: After Fsmashing against the Bob-omb Bowser can hit the Bob-omb and not get damaged. So now i'm gonna switch to a character that does not have a disjointed smash that does ~15.

Edit2: Bowsers Ftilt can also explode the Bob-omb without being injured. What this might mean is that the explosion hitbox is smaller then the bob-omb hitbox and Ryu and Bowser can attack the bob-omb hurtbox and be slightly out of range of the explosion hitbox.

Edit3: Sonic's Fsmash (14%) and Dsmash (12%) can also hit the bob-omb without receiving damage.

So I have no clue whats going on. Smash 4's priority might be different but before I believe that if someone could test two attacks whose difference in power is greater than 9%, this can be Tilt/jav vs a Fsmash for example, and have those two moves clash and give us the results like if the stronger attack simply beats out the weaker attack no matter what (same priority as other smash games) or if the weaker attack was stopped and put into a reeling animation while the stronger attack continued (possibly new priority).

I have no real means of testing this out myself until later today when my friend comes over. At that point I will post what I have found.

 

[icraq]

Bowser takes damage from fsmashing the bobomb.

I can only assume samus' charge shot is clipping Ryu's hurtbox simultaneously with his invincibile foot.

 

[PapaJ]

Bowser takes damage from fsmashing the bobomb.

I can only assume samus' charge shot is clipping Ryu's hurtbox simultaneously with his invincibile foot.

Yeah since Sonic, Bowser and Ryu can hit the bob-omb but not get damaged by it the only true way to taste prioity is with A smash attack vs a tilt, as long as the difference in strength is 9+. Based on those results I can tell if prioity is any different in Smash 4 or if it's the same.

Edit: This is what im using for reference. http://www.ssbwiki.com/Priority
In that article it says 9% for melee and brawl and 10% for Smash 64. There doesn't seem to be a figure for Smash 4.

 

[icraq]

Its 9% here.

So if Tatsu was within 9% of charge shot it would cause the charge shot to disappear before it collided with Ryu. Instead it continues through his foot and hits his leg.

Tatsu destroying a bobomb without damaging Ryu doesn't check priority. All it does is detonate the bomb. If the blast radius was big enough to touch Ryu's leg it would hurt Ryu, but it doesn't. It only touches his foot, which is invincible.

It's like Marths sword basically. But it's not a disjoint because it's on Ryu's body. But temporarily his foot becomes a sword. Marth would have all the same types of interactions here.

 

[PapaJ]

Its 9% here.

So if Tatsu was within 9% of charge shot it would cause the charge shot to disappear before it collided with Ryu. Instead it continues through his foot and hits his leg.

Tatsu destroying a bobomb without damaging Ryu doesn't check priority. All it does is detonate the bomb. If the blast radius was big enough to touch Ryu's leg it would hurt Ryu, but it doesn't. It only touches his foot, which is invincible.

It's like Marths sword basically. But it's not a disjoint because it's on Ryu's body. But temporarily his foot becomes a sword. Marth would have all the same types of interactions here.

Yeah so priority is the same. It's just Ryu's hitbox is disointed of his hurtbox and since smash checks hitbox Vs hitbox first before hitbox Vs hurtbox that means as long as Ryu's hitbox is in contact with a move it doesn't matter if his hurtbox is there if the game detects his hitbox and it can clank with the move the move will clang. But since Ryu is in a special move I think that is what gives him this unique property to continue to move and attack. That explains why when Ryu hits a Hammer or golden hammer with a Normal move he gets put into a reeling animation. What this doesn't answer though is that if the damage of a move is 9% or higher then another move then normally the weaker attack is clanged and the opponent continues with their attack and the hitbox st...

so what might be happening is that when Ryu's leg connects with a move even if it's stronger he doesn't get put into a reeling animation. Since his foot clanged, and lost, normally he'd get hit right? But due to the Tatsu's nature of moving his leg behind him his extended hitbox and hurtbox are gone meaning there's nothing for them to hit so when he spins again the hitbox comes back out to hit the opponent. I feel like that explains it as it explains how he can clank with moves that are stronger, not get hit, due to the altered hurtbox, then hit them again, because tatsu spins and adds another hitbox in front. This is why this is Unique to Ryu. His is the only special move where his hitbox/hurtbox switches sides during the move itself.

So this is why we can only clank with stronger moves sometimes. It has to be timed so the hitbox is detected then almost right after detecting that then Ryu's leg is behind him reducing his hurtbox.

 

[icraq]

Maybe. I don't know for certain. but hey, Tatsu is a pretty cool move.

I wonder if it bypasses Sheik's needles.

 

[PapaJ]

Maybe. I don't know for certain. but hey, Tatsu is a pretty cool move.

I wonder if it bypasses Sheik's needles.

Probably not since they are transcendent. meaning they don't check for hitbox Vs hitbox first they simply check for Hurtbox Vs Hitbox. Which the only reason why we got away with clanking with stronger moves is because of the Hitbox Vs Hitbox check that was required.

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. Thanks to you guys we found that Ryu can essentially cheat the clashing system. It's a bit hard to do but it's possible.

 

[icraq]

Probably not since they are transcendent. meaning they don't check for hitbox Vs hitbox first they simply check for Hurtbox Vs Hitbox. Which the only reason why we got away with clanking with stronger moves is because of the Hitbox Vs Hitbox check that was required.

If they collide with the foot of Tatsu, if it's truly invincible, it should just soak them up. Needles might be too low though.

 

[DisidisiD]

I don't know if you figured it out or not but I was thinking. Wouldn't it be best to test against falco's laser to see if its invincibility or just clash? Because its transcendent and all? Just a thought. I don't know if that's what you're aiming for or not. Not aiming to be condescending if I come off as that.

EDIT: oh you guys thought about transcendent already. My computer just loaded those comments. Sorry lol. But yeah, his lasers might be good to test it.

 

[PapaJ]

I don't know if you figured it out or not but I was thinking. Wouldn't it be best to test against falco's laser to see if its invincibility or just clash? Because its transcendent and all? Just a thought. I don't know if that's what you're aiming for or not. Not aiming to be condescending if I come off as that.

EDIT: oh you guys thought about transcendent already. My computer just loaded those comments. Sorry lol. But yeah, his lasers might be good to test it.

Yeah I already updated OP with what I feel happens with Ryu. It's the only logical answer imo. Since other attacks don't have your hitbox/hurtbox as drastically as Ryu. This also explains my testing with my friend. The stronger attack would continue and hurt the player using a weaker attack. Plus the weaker attacker would be in reeling animation. Special moves probably bypass the reeling animation which leads to Ryu continuously spinning and evading the hitbox.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Great posts PapaJ.I had no choice but to like them all.

"1) The game checks Hitbox Vs Hitbox before Hitbox vs Hurtbox.
2) Because of this it checks Ryu's leg since that's his hitbox
3) The game realizes it's not strong enough to stop the attack
4) It tries to put Ryu in a reeling animation but it can't because it's a special move.
5) Ryu's leg goes behind him meaning the opponents attack has nothing to connect to
6) Ryu's leg comes back out in front with another hitbox connected to it an hits the opponent."

And I basically saw this same scenario happen again when I pitted ryu's 12% tatsu in training mode against

-ganon's down b(12%),f smash(24%) ,d smash(19%), f tilt(13%)

-Bowser's up smash(16%)

-Marth's sweet spot f smash(18%)

I also discovered something that was interesting.Charizard's flare blitz. I don't know why ryu's side b tatsu couldn't bypassed charizard's side b(19%) unscathed and hit charizard in return even after the first spin had clanked. Even after it staled.....

Edit: actually,I was able to bypassed away from an aerial flare blitz with a true tatsu as the second spin raised ryu above it to evade it diagonally horizontally in time after the first spin clanked. Flare blitz has to be respected.