Does he have any weaknesses?

[Tyrael64]

So I'm having fun dominating my friends with Lucario's mad-crazy dodge and air games, but I kind of have to wonder...does Lucario have any weaknesses? People he's bad against? He's got speed, range, priority, recovery, and his damage scaling makes him only get nastier the more you hit him. Yet, despite all this, every tier list I've seen places him in mid-tier or mid-high tier. Why is this? What keeps Lucario from being top tier? What weaknesses does he have? Is there anything he's bad at?

 

[GDX]

So I'm having fun dominating my friends with Lucario's mad-crazy dodge and air games, but I kind of have to wonder...does Lucario have any weaknesses? People he's bad against? He's got speed, range, priority, recovery, and his damage scaling makes him only get nastier the more you hit him. Yet, despite all this, every tier list I've seen places him in mid-tier or mid-high tier. Why is this? What keeps Lucario from being top tier? What weaknesses does he have? Is there anything he's bad at?

wait, what? You didn't notice the beard you were able to grow in the time it takes for his smashes to go off?

Seriously though, i believe his weaknesses are:
-Smashes take forever to go off
-his counter takes time to activate. Just because the sound goes off doesnt mean you'll counter the hit, trust me
-his dashingA attack is slow and pretty risky
-Even if you get the smashes off, you cant really kill until you yourself are damaged in the high %s. So in a sense, you are punished for avoiding all the hits while playing lucario, since he really is weak with no damage on him. This makes you have to decide when to take an attack from an enemy just so you can kill them later on, and hope they dont combo off of it and end up killing you on the spot.

but despite all that, Lucario will be one of my mains, because when i need to play a defensive turtle style against an opponent (especially Ike's constant pressure), he is the best man for the job, and he really is the only on in my arsenal that can effectively play that style....well, maybe Wolf, but that'd be a waste of talent

 

[dguy6789]

Smashes don't take thaat long to go off. His fsmash has more range and priority than almost any smash in the game, so it is fine with a little delay.

You are mistaken about counter. It actually activates nearly instantly.(2 frames after you push down b) The problem is it only counters near the beginning of the animation, not near the end, which is a mistake many people make.

Lucario's weakness would be the fact that he has trouble killing when he is at 0%. That is pretty much the only problem he has.

 

[GDX]

Smashes don't take thaat long to go off. His fsmash has more range and priority than almost any smash in the game, so it is fine with a little delay.

You are mistaken about counter. It actually activates nearly instantly.(2 frames after you push down b) The problem is it only counters near the beginning of the animation, not near the end, which is a mistake many people make.

Lucario's weakness would be the fact that he has trouble killing when he is at 0%. That is pretty much the only problem he has.

Dont get me wrong, the range on it is amazing, but it still takes some time to go off, at least compared to the dsmashes and fsmashes of about all the other characters. Range isnt that important when people have time to roll away from it. All of his smashes have to be used on a prediction basis (unlike lets say mario, who can roll and do a smash based just on reaction, not having to predict if the character will roll or dodge)

Thats what i mean it takes time. Its not instant, ala Marth. It angers me when i counter and hear the sound effect only to see myself flying away from a hit. and i knew it wasnt at the end of the animation though. I was just speaking of startup time

but again, lucario is the thing i love to hate. I may talk bad about him sometimes, but in reality i really do like him in the game overall.

 

[jellis186]

To be honest, unless i have a wide open shot, i will ftilt before i smash. Smash takes too long and his tilts have some nice knockback.

 

[Sir Roy]

The only outstanding thing I've noticed about him having a weakness is that if you get hit decently off the stage and have to use Up+B to return, you are probably dead. Most anyone is going to attempt to knock you out of it.

Luckily, I can just get away with floating back to the stage most of the time.

That and he has innate disadvantage against characters who can kill you at low percents (Ike, Marth for example) but other than that? Nothing that springs to mind readily.

 

[Omni]

I main Ike and Lucario.

Lucario is a weaker form of Marth with better disjointed hitboxes. Landing 10 attacks on one person can be equal to the opponent landing 3-4 on you, so you have to work for your kills. If a player plays evasive, you can rack up on damage with his shadow balls, but its very difficult to kill.

Lucario's best kill moves are obviously:
F-smash.
D-smash (usually out of shield)
F-tilt
D-air.
U-air.

He dies kind of early over the top, but lives decently well. You pretty much have to have great spacing, good understanding of his disjointed hitboxes, and good mindgames to pull a good Lucario out of your hat.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Besides the fact that it must take a decent amount of damage for the attacks to kick in, Lucario doesn't have too many flaws.

 

[koikaze]

There is a lack of KO moves. Also ground combat is kinda slow to get going.

 

[TK Wolf]

You can d-smash out of shield? Also, am I ********, or is it now impossible to crouch cancel a run into a d-smash?

I find his weaknesses to be a difficult ground game and being KOed easily by certain characters.

 

[Azuro]

He's not as effective when he hasn't taken damage, and plus he's lightweight. Strong characters have an advantage over him in the aspect that they can kill him before his boosts start to really kick in.

If he didn't have that, I'd say he'd be an amazing character. Even with it, he's still amazing to me.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Marth's counter isn't instant either. I'm pretty sure it's actually a few frames slower than Lucario's. And Lucario's counter can dodge grabs.

Lucario's main weaknesses are that even at high % he's still not all that strong and doesn't do very much damage. He has a hard time racking up enough damage to KO, and yes, his more powerful KO moves are very slow to start (but not to finish. Hardly any lag after Fsmash activates).

Also, his recovery is not the best. Since it' can't hit anyone, most characters can just ledgehog you and wait for you to use UP B back onto the stage, and then jump up and punish you while you're still suffering from the landing lag this move has.

 

[Giga Hand]

Lucario is weak against heavyweights like Bowser.

Why? Because he gets KOd before he gets to high damage.

No offence, but I think that's pretty obvious. How come noone pointed it out to this guy?

 

[RT]

-Lacks low percentage kills moves
-Lightweight and gets killed off the top very easily
-Needs to take damage in order to deal more damage
-Recovery has lag if you don't sweetspot the edge or cancel properly
-Hitboxes are deceptive, but you have to know how to space them properly

If you have good spacing, know how to DI, and play smart, then you'll do good enough.

 

[TipZ]

His approach isn't the greatest, especially against projectiles. I'm still adjusting to his weight from my melee fox.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

His approach isn't the greatest, especially against projectiles. I'm still adjusting to his weight from my melee fox.

Baby aura spheres and double team can help you get around projectiles.

Is Lucario even all that light? He seems to survive pretty well as far as I can see...

 

[Oceanborn]

First off, Nessbounder, that one of *the* best signature ever. If only the Sandbag could bleed, LOL.

And to respond to the main post, I'm sure people have probably already mentioned what I'm about to say, but Lucario lacks what I miss from other characters I used to main or I'm used to playing, like Zelda, Shiek, Ness and Mewtwo. I miss the spikes, speed, lag-lite attacks, and most importantly, low percentage KO moves. Like Zelda's heel kick or Ness' BAir kick. I feel like with Lucario, just like with Metaknight, I have to be an expert in doing combos in order to be good at playing them. I'm still on the learning curb if I do choose to main Lucario (which I'm really considering) but just saying, those are the things he lacks. Not sure if his moveset overall makes up for it but as we all know, Lucario can be a badass.

Baby aura spheres and double team can help you get around projectiles.

Is Lucario even all that light? He seems to survive pretty well as far as I can see...

I don't think Lucario IS light at all. I think it's the new floaty game mechanic that has everyone thrown off. I mean Samus, as heavy as that armor is is still oddly floaty.

 

[YoYoBoY]

In my experience, olimar just dominates lucario. His pikmin easily fend off any projectiles and his long grab prevent lucario from doing anything except pretty much fsmash and dair.

 

[RedMage8BT]

Lucario's weakness is basically in his speed, as far as I can tell. As long as you can outspeed him, you should be able to keep the upper hand.

 

[Micahc]

Well, he has a weakness against ground and fire attacks. He also hates fighting attacks, and he's pretty frail to anything he doesn't outright resist. He also has a meddling base speed of 90, which means he gets out sped and gets in speed ties with a lot of other pokes. However his attacking stats are great, and can actually 2HKO Blissy with Aura Sphere. Once I get the game this weekend I can give you some more info

He needs to be at a high % to kill an enemy, so if he goes a stock below he has a hard time catching up because he can't combo the enemy well because all his moves are KO moves.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Well, he has a weakness against ground and fire attacks. He also hates fighting attacks, and he's pretty frail to anything he doesn't outright resist. He also has a meddling base speed of 90, which means he gets out sped and gets in speed ties with a lot of other pokes. However his attacking stats are great, and can actually 2HKO Blissy with Aura Sphere. Once I get the game this weekend I can give you some more info

He needs to be at a high % to kill an enemy, so if he goes a stock below he has a hard time catching up because he can't combo the enemy well because all his moves are KO moves.

This is a common misconception actually. If you look at it, even when he's at high % he still doesn't have many outright KO moves. The boost in attack is not as significant as everyone makes it seem.

 

[Lupo]

wait, what? You didn't notice the beard you were able to grow in the time it takes for his smashes to go off?

Seriously though, i believe his weaknesses are:
-Smashes take forever to go off
-his counter takes time to activate. Just because the sound goes off doesnt mean you'll counter the hit, trust me
-his dashingA attack is slow and pretty risky
-Even if you get the smashes off, you cant really kill until you yourself are damaged in the high %s. So in a sense, you are punished for avoiding all the hits while playing lucario, since he really is weak with no damage on him. This makes you have to decide when to take an attack from an enemy just so you can kill them later on, and hope they dont combo off of it and end up killing you on the spot.

but despite all that, Lucario will be one of my mains, because when i need to play a defensive turtle style against an opponent (especially Ike's constant pressure), he is the best man for the job, and he really is the only on in my arsenal that can effectively play that style....well, maybe Wolf, but that'd be a waste of talent

I just wanted to comment on what this guy said. Now, I've only had the game for a few days, and am just getting a feel for Lucario, but I still want to prove him wrong. it's not a vanity thing, but Lucario's weaknesses (save for a few) can pretty much be redirected. Here's where the actual revelance comes in:

--While Smashes DO take a while, and they are as slow as any other heavy character, they are insanely good for edge-guarding. Still not satisfied? Use the C-Stick. (And for those not using a gamecube controler, FOR SHAME)
--His Counter is the only thing that is the problem. A good Lucario player knows exactly when to use the counter. Especially when someone's trying to edge-guard. Only practice can make the counter truly deadly.
--His dashing A attack can be replaced by a short-hopped dair (which is extremely recommended.) Besides, it isn't that risky, but you shouldn't approach people like that, only to punish. Lucario's real damage is dealt just outside the enemy's hitbox. (Lucario's is not only disjointed, but big)
--And the damage thing. I can see where he'd coming at, but Lucario can totally kill with a few well placed Down smashes and dairs. Air-to-ground play is Lucario's specialty.

Well that about covers it. But far be it for me to teach you how to play. I'm still learning myself. And as soon as my Wi-Fi decides to work, I'll play with anyone who asks.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

The problem is, Lucario's smash attacks aren't even that good for edge guarding at all. Most characters will recover high way past the range of Lucario's hitbox, and others will just sweet spot the ledge from below.

As KO moves, considering how slow they are, they just don't have enough KO power! Lucas KOs people sooner that Lucario with his F smash, and it takes half the time to activate and only has a little bit less range.

 

[adaptor17]

yes, sadly, lucario does have his weaknesses.his smash attacks are ridiculously slow,he lacks a meteor smash and he sucks against low percent killers (i.e. ike, bowser,etc.).those are the first things that come to mind at first at least.o and for all the naysayers, his counter kills at low percentages.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

--While Smashes DO take a while, and they are as slow as any other heavy character, they are insanely good for edge-guarding. Still not satisfied? Use the C-Stick. (And for those not using a gamecube controler, FOR SHAME)
--His Counter is the only thing that is the problem. A good Lucario player knows exactly when to use the counter. Especially when someone's trying to edge-guard. Only practice can make the counter truly deadly.
--His dashing A attack can be replaced by a short-hopped dair (which is extremely recommended.) Besides, it isn't that risky, but you shouldn't approach people like that, only to punish. Lucario's real damage is dealt just outside the enemy's hitbox. (Lucario's is not only disjointed, but big)
--And the damage thing. I can see where he'd coming at, but Lucario can totally kill with a few well placed Down smashes and dairs. Air-to-ground play is Lucario's specialty.

-they aren't good for edgeguarding, if approaching from above you are better off just doing fair->dair and get a kill. If approaching from the bottom, they will just sweetspot the edge and thus are invincible. His best edgeguard is his dair, period.
-agreed on SHDair, even better ive found is to approach and >B to stop your momentum entirely, but still get a nice shot.
-down smash is WAY to easy to dodge, to the point it isn't even worth trying (and yes, I use the C-stick, it's still slow) then you get hit because of the lag afterwards

now for my own opinion:
-use lucario's tilts, generally they are better (dtilt-fair-fair-dair, or fair-fair-ftilt-aurasphere are my 2 favorite combos with the tilts). Plus both tilts have hax hitboxes.
-if the dair would work in a situation, for the love of God, USE IT. By far his best move.

weaknesses- the thin, but heavy characters (ike, snake, etc). With the small hitboxes, but the ability to kill below 100% (below 1.5 damage boost) means lucario's damage doesn't get boosted much. Also, zelda is a beast against him (killing at low %s).

 

[Scarface]

I like the way he plays. Kinda like Samus and Marth mixed into one.

Sorta? O.o

 

[Emblem Lord]

There is a reason why most consider him to be mid tier to high tier.

He has weaknesses people.

Please just accept it.

 

[amished]

Emblem, why don't you list them instead of just stating that he has weaknesses? If you have any prediction skill at all (a lot like the slow heavy chars need) his smashes aren't that bad. They also mostly knock them into the air where your disjointed quick hitboxes give you a advantage over many chars. You still will have a problem against the *really* speedy (hard to catch, though your hitboxes will out prioritize them) and the *really* heavy (where they'll trade hits with you, and you'll come out for the worse), but against most people, I've been killing them around the 125-150 range, which seems to be pretty normal for most of the middleweight class. Obviously, his damage bonus is a help, so you can rack up some easy damage after they respawn, or potentially get a good KO at a lower percentage than normal.

 

[Lupo]

Oh. *scratches head* Well...I guess you guys are kind of right...I can admit when I'm wrong.

Lucario DOES have weakneseses, and I'm not saying he does. Every cahracter does. It takes a good player to work them out.

I whole-heartedly agree with betterthanbonds about the tilts (considering Lucario's uptilt is just as good as Fox's.)

As for amished, I just wanted to say that Lucario deals really well with slower, heavier characters. I found I can be beast against character's like Dedede and Bowser. Their smashes are easy to counter and you can spam the dair against them far too easily.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Lucario's only real weakness is the lack of a safe approach against characters with good pokes, like Samus or Link's aerial grapples.

People have been placing a lot of things as weaknesses that shouldn't really be. Slower than average smashes aren't that big a deal, and dsmash out of shield is fast enough to hit when it counts anyway
(out of shield or after powershielding a punishable attack).

KOs aren't as difficult to get as everyone is saying they are. Dairs, even after being spammed an entire stock, account for most kills I get with Lucario, usually off the stage. The move's properties make it perfect for well-zoned ledge pressure, as well as dropping quite far off most stages for low % KOs on opponents trying to recover from below (even in Brawl, bad DI happens). Aura Sphere is obviously also good for KOs, especially out of a powershield. Outside of those two, dsmash isn't as hard to pull off as people are saying, uairs at high % also work, especially having not been spammed, bairs are strong although somewhat hard to connect, and ftilts can either kill at high % or lead to dair gimps in lower %.

Lucario has an amazing utilt, which is a beast out of powershields or normal shields, and often you'll be chaining 2-3 of these with uairs or fairs. I don't know why I bring this up, no one is questioning Lucario's ability to string together attacks, but I love this move a lot.

The point is, his main weakness is the lack of a safe approach. His smashes are fine, his kill moves are fine (though admittedly not earthshaking), and his recovery, for the love of Odin, is FINE. Are people forgetting he can curve the angle, thus being able to sweetspot in AT LEAST two different ways in any given situation? I shouldn't even have to mention that he can wall cling from his up B.

Other disadvantages, which I wouldn't exactly call weaknesses, are a subpar tech chase game and what appears to be a very short ranged grab.

EDIT: Oh, and he isn't light at all. He's middle of the road, and can live much longer than most.