Does Gdubs Have problems?

[Dubforce]

So I just read through the entire "Tier List Discussion" thread, and I have come to realize that my main is almost universally considered the worst character in the game. I would like to start a discussion that only focuses on one aspect of Gdubs: What problems does he have?

I'll list my two least favorite things about the character to get the conversation rolling.

1) This mechanic is present only against Gdubs as far as I'm aware. If someone holds a while getting Jab Reset by Gdubs, they perform a getup attack instead of being genuinely "reset."

2) Crouch Canceling (cc) ***** his hammer (side-b). If someone CC's the 8, they do not get frozen. If someone CC's the 2, they do not get stunned. If someone CC's the 4, they take virtually no KB ever. If someone CC's the 6 or 7, they do not take noticeable KB until around the 50's. If someone CC's the 9 they won't die until about 100 or more depending on their weight. And last but not least, if someone CC's the 1, Gdubs take 10 damage (lol joke).

So please discuss what I've listed and add to it please. Once we have a general consensus on where his problems lie, I'll begin compiling a list. Once we agree on a finished list, I will send a formal declaration of things we deem necessary to change directly to one of the PMBR members, where it will hopefully fall into the right hands and change things for us down the road.

 

[Oracle]

Jab resets are based on kb damage and weight. Could be that gws initial jab is too strong to force an actual reset on many characters. Im really against threads like these because its just going to boil down to players who dont understand the character complaining over nothing. Gw has a few problems but I can almost guarantee most people posting in this thread would not fully understand what they are

 

[Juushichi]

Uh...

The biggest problems that GnW has are:
1. Approach - Air to air a lot of his moves take a while to come out and don't always have the best priority. You also have to space pretty well because vs heavier character's his go to aerial (fair) can be CC punished on reaction up to late mid percents. His grounded approach might typically be WD -> stuff, but his ground moves are just like his air moves (slow to come out and don't always have the best priority).

2. Defense - Even though his weight has improved quite a lot, he's still really light which means your go-to punish (CC Grab/CC Dtilt) can often times be stuffed by opposing attacks. For instance, try to CC the jab option of Mario's Jab-Jab-Dsmash (and it's mixups) at most percents, you'll find trouble with it. Every GnW player knows that both his roll, tech roll and hell, let's throw out his glide toss OoS are also very slow animated moves. I've also had my Up-B OoS stuffed by all manner of attacks.

---

I was wondering why that happened in terms of the jab reset thing and yes, that needs to be fixed. But if you're using Hammer as an approach tool or a grounded punish, you might just be using that move wrong.

EDIT: And I got ninja'd by Oracle. I basically agree with him, lol. That being said, I ended up talking to a few people about things that I'd want for GnW in the next version. There's not a whole lot of reasons to talk about them here and now, but ultimately I think I narrowed down maybe like 2 things that I would fix about him and they all helped his defense... nothing else.

That might tell you how I feel about this character, lol.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Lock Thread plz

 

[awesome13579]

His first "issue" is approaching, but there is a way to fix that: The frying pan. The projectiles are so random, while you get two out of a short hop. With dash dancing, shield pokes from down tilt, and grabs for shielding opponents, his approach is similar to Falco's, one that is clearly good.
His second "issue" is not having a reliable way to escape shield pressure when the slight breath of fresh air occurs in it. Solution: Up B out of shield. It sends you high enough so every character has to use more than one jump, and it can start a combo if you catch somebody pressuring you at the right time. His down air is also disjointed enough to get past many up attacks.
His true main problems are his light weight and mostly predictable recovery. While his recovery can be extended forward using Down B - after Up B begins its forward momentum - to gain more horizontal distance without falling too much, this makes you more vulnerable unless you have ammo. You also cannot air dodge out of his Up B after an aerial, unlike Sonic. And again, with his weight being the second lowest in version 2.5b, strong hits at moderate percents can mean his stock.

You really should not be using Side B unless with an aerial combo. This way it is assured and the cc is impossible. As for his jab resets, don't waste your time with them. His down tilt his best move no doubt, for its iASA frames allow you to go into any attack immediately; not to mention it's a powerful and quick attack that is huge, can pick people up to combo, shield poke, kill, clash with all get up attacks, and edge guard with the softspot. Every chance you have for a jab reset with G&W, go for down tilt instead. Even if the opponent rolls/techs when you use it, you will not be punished and possibly even punish them due to its iASA frames.

I hope this helps.