Doc Advanced Tech Frame Data Megathread

[CnB | Chandy]

Wow that was a quick turnaround. Thanks a bunch. When I play Doc on occasion DALG is like my favorite thing to do, glad to see that Ness and Mewtwo have it too. Scrambling to get to complete an edgeguard off of a straight hit when you're not in position is a tough spot, but sliding to ledge with an active hitbox is really helpful here, especially for covering some of the faster options like an immediate space side B. Ending up on the ledge with fresh invincibility afterwards is nice for covering anything that's not a quick side-B onstage or to ledge.

 

[Superw0rri0]

Oh based schmooblidon !!! I have a question that only your infinite knowledge of frame data can answer! *bows*
It is difficult to ask as I am still recovering from the glory of the post above but maybe you will see past my mortal filth and humble yourself to answer one simple question! *bows lower*

Oh based Schmoob!!! Can you help me figure out what is the earliest possibility to platform cancel with doc from hanging on an edge.
I ask you this question because if Doc can do this within the first few frames on invincibility he can possible throw out a tilt, jab, or smash with invincibility.

Thank you based Schmoob! May your never ending knowledge of frame data guide me to the higher ranks of the smash community! *dies from your amazingness*

 

[schmooblidon]

Oh based schmooblidon !!! I have a question that only your infinite knowledge of frame data can answer! *bows*
It is difficult to ask as I am still recovering from the glory of the post above but maybe you will see past my mortal filth and humble yourself to answer one simple question! *bows lower*

Oh based Schmoob!!! Can you help me figure out what is the earliest possibility to platform cancel with doc from hanging on an edge.
I ask you this question because if Doc can do this within the first few frames on invincibility he can possible throw out a tilt, jab, or smash with invincibility.

Thank you based Schmoob! May your never ending knowledge of frame data guide me to the higher ranks of the smash community! *dies from your amazingness*

Lol thanks

I presume you mean upair aerial interrupt? People used to call AIs platform cancels, I've personally been pushing for more diverse tech names, as platform cancels, aerial interrupts and platform warp aerials all look similar, but have very different mechanics.

Here is the fastest setup I could find, also happens to have a hitbox.

7 possible intangible actionable frames

0 - Hanging on Ledge
1 - Drop
2 - Fastfall
5 - Double Jumps Towards stage
9/10 - Upair
12 - (Hitbox only if upair on frame 9)
13 - Hitbox
14 - Land
23 - Actionable
30 - Vulnerable

If you hit someone with the hitbox, then your intangibility frames will continue to be used during hitlag, only important if you hit a shield though. Also if you upair on frame 9, and then hit on frame 12, you won't actually cancel the upair. Kinda awkward to explain why but just know that hitlag screws you.

 

[Superw0rri0]

So i was practicing this and I actually managed to do it fast once! But it was an accident
Anyway let's say I can do this consistently enough to use in tournament... do you think wave landing with invulnerability or AI with invulnerability is better?

The only thing I see that wave landing can do better is distance but I think you lose your invulnerability by the time you get the full wave land distance

 

[schmooblidon]

So i was practicing this and I actually managed to do it fast once! But it was an accident
Anyway let's say I can do this consistently enough to use in tournament... do you think wave landing with invulnerability or AI with invulnerability is better?

The only thing I see that wave landing can do better is distance but I think you lose your invulnerability by the time you get the full wave land distance

Unless you plan on hitting with the upair and doing some crazy 20Rx followups, ledgedash would be better almost always. I think that when you are playing any opponent that doesn't open himself up whenever you are on the ledge, you should think of it as a defensive position and just try to get center stage. Ledgedash actually has more intangible actionable frames, and a perfect one can grant you 14 actionable intangible frames. That's joint 3rd best with falco.

http://smashboards.com/threads/kada...data-application.337035/page-20#post-16761069

 

[Superw0rri0]

*proceeds to practice perfect edge landing* ya I gotta get real good with that now... I tried doing it frame by frame and I managed to get a jab out with some left over invulnerable frames.

Also hitting the upair requires them to be close enough to do it and I know some people that like to stand there so maybe I'll try to learn it.

By the way.. what's the R for? also I found the 20XR twitch channel and I followed... plus I'd love to join that skype group.

 

[schmooblidon]

*proceeds to practice perfect edge landing* ya I gotta get real good with that now... I tried doing it frame by frame and I managed to get a jab out with some left over invulnerable frames.

Also hitting the upair requires them to be close enough to do it and I know some people that like to stand there so maybe I'll try to learn it.

By the way.. what's the R for? also I found the 20XR twitch channel and I followed... plus I'd love to join that skype group.

Rx / ℞ is the symbol for prescription. Doc being a doctor, makes it fit well. The skype group is ****, they never talk about doc and just spam emotes everyday.

 

[CnB | Chandy]

I have a community suggestion.

Normally Mario/Doc/Luigi can't use their neutral B turnaround to grab ledge out of a short hop like Sheik or DK, because the animation is too long. However, if you space your jump such that you slide off the edge during the end of the animation, you'll be able to grab ledge out of a running short hop . As an edgeguarding tool, it's perhaps his fastest method of grabbing ledge out of a run from center stage, second maybe to wavedash pivot wavedash fastfall. Otherwise you can only grab ledge with Fireball out of a full hop. Might be useful situationally useful defensively to cover a retreat to ledge (I don't know why you would retreat to ledge that often, though. Maybe 20Rx involves using perfect ledgedash options all the time).

Maybe it's not advanced enough to include here, though. Not sure.

http://gfycat.com/UglyGleamingDugong

 

[Superw0rri0]

That's already being used but it requires specific spacing that doesn't come up in every scenario... say you're already near the edge then your fastest option is wavedash.

TBH I've never used it mostly because I don't to take the time to master it.

 

[JipC]

Is there a reverse upB cancel? I could have sworn there was but maybe I'm trippin. I got my upB cancels down though and used it in tourney today.

 

[schmooblidon]

Is there a reverse upB cancel? I could have sworn there was but maybe I'm trippin. I got my upB cancels down though and used it in tourney today.

Yeah you do a forward angled reverse upb.

Frame 3: forward
Frame 4: back

Diagonals work for this, so I normally do;

When facing Right
> >

When facing Left
> >

The hitbox hits in front like normal, you turn around on the cancel landing frame. (frame 4)

 

[JipC]

Yeah you do a forward angled reverse upb.

Frame 3: forward
Frame 4: back

Diagonals work for this, so I normally do;

When facing Right
> >

When facing Left
> >

The hitbox hits in front like normal, you turn around on the cancel landing frame. (frame 4)

thats ****ing ********

 

[Chaos0205]

So I had a question. I was playing a match a while back on FD and I was on the left ledge. I ended up doing a waveland that put doc in the center of the stage. Unfortunately I don't have footage, but I was wondering if this was actually possible, perhaps by doing the waveland on a certain frame, or if was just some kind of glitch? Has anyone else done this?

 

[Superw0rri0]

So I had a question. I was playing a match a while back on FD and I was on the left ledge. I ended up doing a waveland that put doc in the center of the stage. Unfortunately I don't have footage, but I was wondering if this was actually possible, perhaps by doing the waveland on a certain frame, or if was just some kind of glitch? Has anyone else done this?

That's trippy... it would be cool if someone can recreate this

 

[-ACE-]

Sounds like Dr. Luigi