Do you feel the Top Tiers were nerfed to a satisfactory level?

[JayTheUnseen]

oh the sweet irony

anyways, if you think that Project M hasn't benefitted from feedback coming from outside the PM community, then you'd be wrong.

What I meant in saying that was simply this: P:M should not be held back by how things were in Melee.
Here's a hypothetical:Mario is an OP character in Melee,and many people love to play as him.He feels like the best character of any Smash game,as he plays so smooth.

Now P:M comes along.They decide to preserve Mario as he was in Melee w/o nerfing him.
At that point I'd ask,why?

Why preserve a character from a game that will never change in a game that will change and strives for balance?At this point,the only reason is,to not alienate players who loved said character in Melee.And yet 3.5 has alienated many players by nerfing their characters and removing tools.Why should said Melee character stay invincible to the winds of change?To not alienate Melee players of said characters.Why should that be?

That was what I meant.It's almost like favoritism in that light.
Note:I do not mean to whine if it sounds like it.

 

[cisyphus]

Falcon in melee is equally if not more popular than Fox and serious work has been done on him, but Falcon mains generally don't get top 8 at big nationals lol. Hax has put serious work into Falcon but, a year later, with Fox, he's done better than ever, and beats people who he was consistently losing to before (like Zhu). Fox has a much higher ceiling than Falcon does. Fox fights evenly or at an advantage in every MU. That matters at higher levels of play. If you don't believe me, you can just ask Hax yourself (or maybe I can find his posts where he talks about the matter), he'll tell you that switching to Fox made a big difference and explain why in clear details.

Come on now, you really think that Hax's Falcon was the end all Falcon? Whenever you force yourself to read your opponent (that is, make a guess) you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. Hax did that a lot, and Falcon doesn't need to do that. Falcon has all the speed necessary to play like Sheik, and by that I mean he can tech chase a spacie up to KO percent. All you need to do as Falcon is grab tech chase (you can even mix up down throw and up throw) until the spacie is at 70% then react to tech in place with a stomp or a knee. The problem with Falcons is that the community at large does not have the same mindset as spacies: they want those hard reads rather than the guaranteed stuff because that ideology is "built into the character." The knee looks so cool to land. The stomp looks so cool to land. It's the same reason everyone gets hyped over Darkrain and Bizarro Flame with Ganon: they go for the hard reads and they've developed themselves as players well enough to get them like 60% of the time. Falcons by nature want people watching them and they want to hype up the crowd; spacies just want to win. It's that dependence on reads that is keeping them out of the top 10. Furthermore, Hax's opinions on Falcon are also defunct because "Mango is a straight up jerk; I get the chance to play him in tournament like twice a year and he picks joke characters. So BM." Coming right after Mango 2 stocked him with Falcon.

 

[kaizo13]

What I meant in saying that was simply this: P:M should not be held back by how things were in Melee.
Here's a hypothetical:Mario is an OP character in Melee,and many people love to play as him.He feels like the best character of any Smash game,as he plays so smooth.

Now P:M comes along.They decide to preserve Mario as he was in Melee w/o nerfing him.
At that point I'd ask,why?

Why preserve a character from a game that will never change in a game that will change and strives for balance?At this point,the only reason is,to not alienate players who loved said character in Melee.And yet 3.5 has alienated many players by nerfing their characters and removing tools.Why should said Melee character stay invincible to the winds of change?To not alienate Melee players of said characters.Why should that be?

That was what I meant.It's almost like favoritism in that light.
Note:I do not mean to whine if it sounds like it.

i get what you're saying, but i really don't think that's the case. The PMDT has knowledgeable high level players playtesting the game, and if they as a collective don't feel something is hurting the balance of the game then i think we should give it some time and let the metagame develop a bit.

the PMDT has shown time after time that no character is safe from change, whether it be from a balance or design standpoint. where do people get the idea that certain characters are invulnerable to change when PMDT has literally been preaching "everything is subject to change" since 2010.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Hmm.. As a none melee player, id say they did a good job of keeping them the same.

Ignoring my personal bias of not wanting the characters people ise so more melee people will be willing to convert to PM, id say the melee greats are already good in their own way, so there is no need to change them much unless they have a huge power difference compared to other non- melee greats.

Spose its all about learning what makes them good. IE, watch out for Foxes shield pressure and up smash. Martha annoying spacing and gimping abilities. His stupid hairband and how he thinks hes SOOO COOL with his dumb face and...

I may have some resentment towards Marth... >_>

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Less cheese, and players who use them have to actually be good at the game to be good with them now.(mostly)

...'Bout time.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

It's too easy to spam running U-Smash in Project M. Though it is punishable, it is annoying. You can just flick the Cstick up, instead of having to also input a jump.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

It's too easy to spam running U-Smash in Project M. Though it is punishable, it is annoying. You can just flick the Cstick up, instead of having to also input a jump.

I was unaware it was different in Melee. :o

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I was unaware it was different in Melee. :o

Yes, it slightly different

But actually, I don't think it matters that much. You seem to slide a little farther in Brawl/PM via tapping the Cstick up, though.

 

[shapular]

Am I the only one who'd rather have a modified Brawl Fox than a port of Melee Fox with extremely slight nerfs? It'd be way more balanced and less toxic to the game. I don't give a crap about the Melee Fox players who would whine about their character getting changed. Almost every other character in the game got changed significantly. Fox shouldn't be an exception.