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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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IceBreakerXY

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Looking for input on this list. Characters in order by likeliness within tier (left to right). I feel confident in the top 5, but it gets muddy past that. Included any talking point characters from the past. This list assumes if Ice Climbers return they will not return the unaltered veteran Ice Climbers. Also assumes Snake is a logistical impossibility. Characters I would like to include: Captain Toad, Ray Mk, Geno, any other popular nominations.

Starting with the lower tiers... Banjo is the least likely third party, hence the low E placement. Bomberman feels the same. I'm unclear on placement of Rayman & lower D tier. Input on Paper Mario would be nice. If Gematsu leak was credible, Chorus Men have 1/6 feet in the door. Also, indie characters are a gray area for me. Are they closer to the third parties (Rayman, Bomberman, Kazooi) or are they upper-low tier? Dixie and Krystal makeup the afterthought mid tier behind their cousins with more starpower. Isaac and Bandana Dee in upper-mid tier with the former slightly ahead of the latter. Open to input on high tier. Pretty sure S-C has all the right characters, but maybe not in a unanimously agreed order.

When offering input, keep this in mind:

>Only 2 more characters? Wolf and A1
>Only 3 more characters? Wolf, A1, and A2/B1/B2
>[theory] 6 more characters? Wolf, 3 or 4 from A-C, 1 or 2 from D-E
>Keep in mind DLC we've gotten so far: Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu
>F tier is reserved for impossible odds characters. e.g. anime characters

Edit: Factors considered for placement:

>Perceived ballot popularity and fan support
>Sakurai/Nintendo's opinion
>Businessy stuff (pertaining to 'advertising new games by including characters' and third party relationships)
Wonder Red,Impa and Chrous kids needs to be either bumped down,replaced, or removed as a whole.Dixie and isaac most defintely need to switch spots.Krystal needs to be moved down.Banjo moved to F-tier.Paper mario up to C and chibi robo down to E.Rayman up a tier.Shantae switches with shovel knight but both are moved down.And for the love of all that is holy Wolf is not that damn likely
 

Morbi

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Better than the first but not quite right in my opinion, I think krystal should be at least a C, I mean are you really putting her in the same tier as Chibi Robo? She's got some of the most fan demand, especially on miiverse. Also Captain Toad is too high, Paper Mario too as the demand just isn't there, I mean it's there but it's not nearly as much as Dixie
If Wolf is in S tier and the assumption is that he is "first in line" so to speak, that leaves Krystal in an odd position. There were already enough complaints about the number of Star Fox representatives pre-launch as it is.

I have no idea why anyone even puts Chibi Robo on their tier lists to be fair. It is somewhat offensive seeing a viable candidate in the same tier as him.
 
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Based on how many changes people want in both threads I think it's safe to assume the community will never fairly agree to a likeliness tier list. Even then Sakurai would probably just wound up sweeping away our expectations in an instant. . .
 

Cutie Gwen

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Tbh it's probably Lankey Kong. Stop with all your silly speculation and just accept that Lankey is the next Smash DLC character. He may not bring style, he may not bring grace, but that Kong has a funny face. And he can handstand when he needs to, and stretch his arms out just for you. Not to mention he can float through the air just like a balloon.
You haven't taken Chibi's inevitable demise well at all it seems
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Because he actually has very significant demand and Retro have acknowledged him. Krystal's been retconned out of Star Fox as far as we're aware.
Retro acknowledging him doesn't mean anything until we see him in an actually game and yes while K Rool is more popular, Krystal is up there too, she has some of the most fan support out there from what I've seen, At least in terms of realistic candidates
 
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Morbi

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Retro acknowledging him doesn't mean anything until we see him in an actually game and yes while K Rool is more popular, Krystal is up there too, she has some of the most fan support out there from what I've seen
Again, the real question is whether or not she receives as much fan support as the "inevitable" veteran that more people expect than want (IMO). Based on my empirical knowledge, she does not and Wolf was selected over her in Brawl for logistical reasons that are sure to bear fruit once more.

Also, Star Fox Zero cross-promotion stuff.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Retro acknowledging him doesn't mean anything until we see him in an actually game and yes while K Rool is more popular, Krystal is up there too, she has some of the most fan support out there from what I've seen, At least in terms of realistic candidates
Retro's CEO is following the Kremling Kampaign twitter account, keep in mind this was after Tropical Freeze, they may be working on a game with K.Rool as we speak, whereas Krystal isn't even in SF0 due to 64
 

Burruni

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Better than the first but not quite right in my opinion, I think krystal should be at least a C, I mean are you really putting her in the same tier as Chibi Robo? She's got some of the most fan demand, especially on miiverse. Also Captain Toad is too high, Paper Mario too as the demand just isn't there, I mean it's there but it's not nearly as much as Dixie
Is Krystal standalone more likely than Chibi-Robo? Probably.

Is Krystal happening alongside Wolf around as likely as Chibi-Robo? Far moreso. And THAT'S where my placement comes into place.

Krystal's condition is pretty much the same as Dixie, but with 5 differences.

1) Dixie has had more demand on her own.
2) K. Rool is not as likely as Wolf.
3) Dixie has been a key part of her series since the SNES to WiiU, it's in good question if we're seeing Krystal in Star Fox in Zero.
4) Star Fox is a somewhat niche series HEAVILLY weighted in popularity for NA while Donkey Kong has held itself worldwide.
5) Dixie as, in some capacity, planned in Brawl as a partner with Diddy. Krystal hasn't been noted for crossing Sakurai's radar.

Captain Toad I'm holding on the grounds that he's been pushed pretty well by Nintendo as of late and people have been demanding a playable Toad since Melee.

Paper Mario is C because he's at least got one game technically coming out soon as part of his series, has support comparable to Krystal from my experience, and has the quirky kind of potential Sakurai seems to be drawn too. Dixie, standalone, would probably be a B/C border line IF K. Rool wasn't there.
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Retro's CEO is following the Kremling Kampaign twitter account, keep in mind this was after Tropical Freeze, they may be working on a game with K.Rool as we speak, whereas Krystal isn't even in SF0 due to 64
Still doesn't mean much, for all we know that one guy is just a big K Rool fan, that doesn't mean the rest of the dev team is and even if they were gonna put him in another game, it hasn't happened yet so it's irrelevant

Sakurai said something about Krystal along the lines of how she's similar to requests of Waddle Dee (This was Brawl where Bandana Dee hadn't been revived and given his handy dandy spear)
That's out of context, he essentially said that if you kept asking why certain characters weren't in the game there would be no end to it, using waddle dee and dry bones as examples, those could have been any characters, popular or not
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/

Again, the real question is whether or not she receives as much fan support as the "inevitable" veteran that more people expect than want (IMO). Based on my empirical knowledge, she does not and Wolf was selected over her in Brawl for logistical reasons that are sure to bear fruit once more.

Also, Star Fox Zero cross-promotion stuff.
Please, Wolf is coming with the ballot or not, plus Wolf is still a semi-clone who could easily be ported from brawl, it isn't at all unrealistic that both could be added
 

Burruni

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Let's spin the question:

What makes Krystal likely?

She's the subsituted 4th major character in a region-heavy somewhat niche series that has been floundering in its titles since Brawl, with a big title coming up that fans are hopefully anxious about in which she does not appear (THAT WE KNOW OF), but retains a noticable (not major, but noticable) chunk of support and... is kept most unique in terms of theoretical moveset by the weapon that belongs to her from the early Gamecube title which has only been referenced by the series since by keeping her existant?


I like your reasoning Burruni. I'm about to do some probability calculations based on certain scenarios, are there any changes you want to make before based on feedback?
Place Ray (MK3) at Borderline D/E ranking. Having middling popularity and part of a stagnant series.
 
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Schnee117

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I'd personally disagree, he's probably the highest voted character in the ballot right now which basically guarantees him, even without that he's very likely for pre-ballot too
I don't think they'd pick a veteran for the ballot unless they want sheer uproar from the fans. This is a chance for the fans to vote for new characters and the dev team pick a character that's already been in? Yeah that would leave a salty taste in people's mouths.

It's pre-ballot or bust for Wolf IMO and time's running out for pre-ballot.
 
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Burruni

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I'd personally disagree, he's probably the highest voted character in the ballot right now which basically guarantees him, even without that he's very likely for pre-ballot too
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/ K. Rool beats him in the ballot, by our prediction.
(This is going off the merit that Japan has the biggest overall support for Veterans being brought back and that Japan has a tendency to be "xenophobic" to characters created from outside regions... K. Rool being PAL).
That said, nobody is sure to be in Smash until you select them on the CSS. Especially not at this stage.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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I don't think they'd pick a veteran for the ballot unless they want sheer uproar from the fans. This is a chance for the fans to vote for new characters and they pick a character that's already been in? Yeah that would leave a salty taste in people's mouths.

It's pre-ballot or bust for Wolf IMO and time's running out for pre-ballot.
I still disagree, the highest voted character just so happens to be a veteran, owned by Nintendo and has relevance due to an upcoming game, it'd be completely stupid to not add him, that's like throwing away free money. Although I don't think he'd be alone which would hopefully get that salty taste out of peoples mouth
 
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NintenZ

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So I did extensive research on the rumor, to try and see what it could lead to, I wasn't really trying to guess at all. Callie and Marie could work, they're popular, got personality, and have been said to take place in Turf Wars, I don't see what the problem is.
 

Burruni

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So I did extensive research on the rumor, to try and see what it could lead to, I wasn't really trying to guess at all. Callie and Marie could work, they're popular, got personality, and have been said to take place in Turf Wars, I don't see what the problem is.
The fact that you never play as them.

(Also the fact that :4ryu: couldn't get a Ken alt, I don't see two full models for them)
Getting Callie and/or Marie would be the equivilent of getting Tom Nook instead of :4villager:.
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/ K. Rool beats him in the ballot, by our prediction.
(This is going off the merit that Japan has the biggest overall support for Veterans being brought back and that Japan has a tendency to be "xenophobic" to characters created from outside regions... K. Rool being PAL).
That said, nobody is sure to be in Smash until you select them on the CSS. Especially not at this stage.
Still, not making him would still be throwing away free money due to how easy he would be, it's not like they can't do both
 

NintenZ

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The fact that you never play as them.

Getting Callie and/or Marie would be the equivilent of getting Tom Nook instead of :4villager:.
I overlooked that didn't I?
As for Inkling in Hero's Aurmor, that could be a good alternative, correctly?
 

MYU2

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Looking for input on this list. Characters in order by likeliness within tier (left to right). I feel confident in the top 5, but it gets muddy past that. Included any talking point characters from the past. This list assumes if Ice Climbers return they will not return the unaltered veteran Ice Climbers. Also assumes Snake is a logistical impossibility. Characters I would like to include: Captain Toad, Ray Mk, Geno, any other popular nominations.

Starting with the lower tiers... Banjo is the least likely third party, hence the low E placement. Bomberman feels the same. I'm unclear on placement of Rayman & lower D tier. Input on Paper Mario would be nice. If Gematsu leak was credible, Chorus Men have 1/6 feet in the door. Also, indie characters are a gray area for me. Are they closer to the third parties (Rayman, Bomberman, Kazooi) or are they upper-low tier? Dixie and Krystal makeup the afterthought mid tier behind their cousins with more starpower. Isaac and Bandana Dee in upper-mid tier with the former slightly ahead of the latter. Open to input on high tier. Pretty sure S-C has all the right characters, but maybe not in a unanimously agreed order.

When offering input, keep this in mind:

>Only 2 more characters? Wolf and A1
>Only 3 more characters? Wolf, A1, and A2/B1/B2
>[theory] 6 more characters? Wolf, 3 or 4 from A-C, 1 or 2 from D-E
>Keep in mind DLC we've gotten so far: Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu
>F tier is reserved for impossible odds characters. e.g. anime characters

Edit: Factors considered for placement:

>Perceived ballot popularity and fan support
>Sakurai/Nintendo's opinion
>Businessy stuff (pertaining to 'advertising new games by including characters' and third party relationships)
This doesn't feel correct.

S tier
>Wolf

A Tier
>Inkling
>Bandana Dee
>Dixie Kong

B Tier
>King K. Rool
>Isaac

C Tier
>Krystal
>Chibi-Robo
>Wonder Red

D Tier
>Rayman
>Bomberman
>Snake
>Banjo Kazooie

E Tier
>SK
>Shantae
>Icees
>Chorus Kids
>Paper Mario
 

Burruni

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Still, not making him would still be throwing away free money due to how easy he would be, it's not like they can't do both
I never said they can't.
If I thought Krystal was impossible without Wolf somehow getting in, I would have put her at F for likeliness.
But it's an improbability that they will.

Edit:
This doesn't feel correct.

S tier
>Wolf

A Tier
>Inkling
>Bandana Dee
>Dixie Kong

B Tier
>King K. Rool
>Isaac

C Tier
>Krystal
>Chibi-Robo
>Wonder Red

D Tier
>Rayman
>Bomberman
>Snake
>Banjo Kazooie

E Tier
>SK
>Shantae
>Icees
>Chorus Kids
>Paper Mario
Please elaborate on why Dixie is more likely than K. Rool and Paper Mario is at E.

Double Edit:

I overlooked that didn't I?
As for Inkling in Hero's Aurmor, that could be a good alternative, correctly?
Or, y'know, being put on the inklings as a whole to remove any and all argument that they'd be easily mistaken for the Miinkling outfits.
 
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So I did extensive research on the rumor, to try and see what it could lead to, I wasn't really trying to guess at all. Callie and Marie could work, they're popular, got personality, and have been said to take place in Turf Wars, I don't see what the problem is.
1. They aren't playable
2. they aren't' the face of the series (inklings are)
3. They are side characters and not main characters.
4. They are far less popular in the ballot. By like. . a gigantic margain
 

Schnee117

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I still disagree, the highest voted character just so happens to be a veteran, owned by Nintendo and has relevance due to an upcoming game, it'd be completely stupid to not add him, that's like throwing away free money. Although I don't think he'd be alone which would hopefully get that salty taste out of peoples mouth
And how do you know Wolf's the highest voted character? Do you have access to the final ballot results? No. You don't.

Yes it'd be stupid to not add Wolf but if most of that stuff you mentioned matters then Wolf shouldn't need the ballot.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Still, not making him would still be throwing away free money due to how easy he would be, it's not like they can't do both
This is Nintendo we're talking about though, they have odd business decisions at times
This doesn't feel correct.

S tier
>Wolf

A Tier
>Inkling
>Bandana Dee
>Dixie Kong

B Tier
>King K. Rool
>Isaac

C Tier
>Krystal
>Chibi-Robo
>Wonder Red

D Tier
>Rayman
>Bomberman
>Snake
>Banjo Kazooie

E Tier
>SK
>Shantae
>Icees
>Chorus Kids
>Paper Mario
*Ice Climbers not at the absolute bottom*
wat
 

SmashChu

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Well, I mean we have all the time in the world. You could easily explain. Because I have no idea what the identity of the leakers have anything to do with the potential characters. Also, are you trying to suggest that each individual leaker only knows 1 character? And that each character corresponds with one of the three character slots that ?

Seems out there to me. Seems fishy for someone to only know one of what they are leaking. Also, a leaker is going to be in huge trouble no matter what or how much they leak. I see no reason why they would try to hide one character.
I think he answered it, but allow me to elaborate.

There are at least 4 people who supposedly know the next characters for Smash, two of them are Rogersbase and Stealth. Rogersbase did work for Nintendo of America for some time and likely has some connections. I don't know Stealth's background, but he has been known to have inside information. In one instance, he knew of a press event for Splatoon, there was an NDA, and that a direct was coming soon. This was March 17th or so. Come March 23rd, Gamexplain drops videos of the event and a direct comes on April 1st. Its clear he has a connection. There are two other people who know but I have not verified the info for myself. The fact that this is coming in less than 2 weeks help its plausibility since that would be around the time NoA would have the info to make their trailer.

I agree the rumor is vague, but I believe the reason has to due with Rogersbase (and by extension, Stealth), don't want it spoiled. If you know anything about Rogersbase, its that he is just as much of a fan as everyone else is. He would rather have everyone get excited than to have his time in the sun. He is teasing fans, given everyone a taste and getting excited, rather than outright saying who it is. To summarize, here is the major facts of the rumor as we know them.

-The character is a Nintendo character
-Would have been in Smash eventually, makes sense and is not "shocking" (so its likely a character that is well known/popular)
-We don't know the gender
-It is defiantly not Shantae, Wolf or Shovel Knight
-Will be shown within two weeks (from last Wednesday I believe)

Now the Shovel Knight rumors. That's a different story. I didn't believe it to begin with, but after some digging, I can certain;y say its false. Here are some facts.

-The major killer is the fact that his sources are retail. From the original Nintendolife article "We've been in touch with multiple sources within the video game retail sector....who claim that Shovel Knight is indeed about to make to his Smash Bros. début, and there will be an amiibo figure to accompany this grand event." Retailers wouldn't know DLC characters because there is no physical product. Yes, retailers will know things in advance, but this is for inventory and managing shelf space. Retailers would know about amiibos, which is why a random Spain retailer knew ahead of time. The article in question was also written by Liam Robertson who is Tamaki on Twitter.

-The Shovel Knight amiibo was leaked the morning of its showcase. A few hours later (around 9AM), Tamaki tweeted out "Rumour source says that the image of the Shovel Knight amiibo (which I saw before that Twitter posted it FYI) is "not final"." However, if you look at the reddit thread, you will see that it was the final. So Tamaki/his source was wrong (image below). He later tweeted out that his sources stated Shovel Knight is still coming to Smash (having trouble finding this again)


-Tamaki has been VERY active on twitter saying how Shovel Knight is defiantly coming to Smash. He'll often tweet out Yacht Club announcements and claim how it proves Shovel Knight. Contrast this to Rogersbase who has been silent on the rumor. So who is fishing for attention. Examples: 1 2 3 4 Also, take this with a grain of salt, but the way Tamaki presents himself leads me to believe he is very full of himself. He tweets out how someone got upset about him in a thread. He then makes 6 more tweets about the subject and retweets a ton of stuff about it. Example. There's more, but I have to stop looking. Take it for what you will.

-Not a big deal, but I question Tamaki's research abilities. On the interview with Sourcegaming, he criticized #GamerGate for being more about a fight against Social Justice and not dealing with corruption. The instance he refereed happened in Jan of 2014 but #Gamergate didn't occur until August of 2014. You can see the InternetAristocrat's video (mirroed) here which Chronicles #Gamergate.

-Some other things to note: Shovel Knight has yet to be released in Japan, so the rumor is unliekly as Sakurai likely doesn't know this character. From Sourcegaming: In regards to Shovel Knight and Shantae being popular in the West: A lot hasn’t changed since I posted the “What is a Shovel Knight” reaction translation. The amiibo and Smash DLC rumors did make its way to Japanese sites. After hearing the rumors, the reactions were a mix of, “Who is he?” and “Hurry up and localize the game!”. There isn’t anything really interesting to report besides that. Sourcegaming also reports that "The character must carry game history with them." for them to be included in Smash. Shovel Knight has only been out for a year.

TL;DR The rumor from Rogersbase and Stealth has some credibility to it. The Shovel Knight rumor doesn't.
 
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NintenZ

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1. They aren't playable
2. they aren't' the face of the series (inklings are)
3. They are side characters and not main characters.
4. They are far less popular in the ballot. By like. . a gigantic margain
Okay, Callie and Marrie are as likely as Sonic getting a good game in a few years, I understand.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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And how do you know Wolf's the highest voted character? Do you have access to the final ballot results? No. You don't.

Yes it'd be stupid to not add Wolf but if most of that stuff you mentioned matters then Wolf shouldn't need the ballot.
At the very least he's one of the top rated which is quite obvious by how vocal people are about wanting him, if he's not #1, he's at least top 5
 

Burruni

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Okay, Callie and Marrie are as likely as Sonic getting a good game in a few years, I understand.
1) Don't do that. It isn't funny.
2) SEGA being absolutely quiet on any main Sonic game since Generations (as they didn't touch anything from the Boom Trilogy) and with the 25th anniversary coming up next year, it's more likely than you think
 

NintenZ

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1) Don't do that. It isn't funny.
2) SEGA being absolutely quiet on any main Sonic game since Generations (as they didn't touch anything from the Boom Trilogy) and with the 25th anniversary coming up next year, it's more likely than you think
I was only exaggerating, don't worry, I didn't truly mean that. I suppose they're as likely as Tom Nook.
 

Schnee117

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Redundant much?
Stealth got banned from ****ing GameFAQS for doing nothing but trolling. Not to mention Tama HAS been right in the past
Tama's also been wrong in the past and also likes rustling some jimmies for his own amusement.
 
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