Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Burruni]

I wish this "leaker" would have put in more effort. Would have been interesting.

I know.
Why would Sakurai ever put Ryu in Smash?
He's a fighting game character who's getting an exclusive game on PS4, and a second capcom character!

 

[GreenKirby]

Name the one time I started praising Sakurai like a god.

I can't because I don't actually think you lick his boots. I was just using your inflammatory remarks against you. You can't just dismiss their complaints especially since all of them do admit loving the game despite of Dark Pit. Whether you think so or not, he does leave a sour spot to many, many people.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I don't care about clones in principle. I don't have a problem with Doc or Lucina.
I hate Dark Pit because it makes me furious that Kid Icarus got 3 characters, and that Sakurai can't control his masturbatory urges.

On another note, can someone fill me in on shovel knight leak #741?

That's so unsubstantiated it makes me want to puke.

Seriously? I mean, seriously?

And I thought what I've said in the Kuttthroat's Thread was disturbing.

 

[Pazzo.]

Don't put words in my mouth. That is a really insulting thing to say.
Sakurai put a buttload of kid icarus content in smash because he made and enjoyed the game. Meanwhile, Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, and too many other series to count got the shaft. He isn't being impartial. That is what makes me mad about Dark Pit, and to a lesser degree, Palutena. That is what I figuratively meant with the word masturbatory.

You can take your digusting accusations of sexism and shove em where the sun don't shine.

OK then.

While I'm inclined to disagree, I understand what you're saying. My bad.

In the future, more respectable language will prevent more misunderstandings.

 

[NintenZ]

I wish this "leaker" would have put in more effort. Would have been interesting.

It's fake, Pichu is clearly a photoshopped Little Mac!

(But seriously, it's still fake.)

 

[The Light Music Club]

All vets plus 1 newcomer would be pretty disappointing imo.

I was speaking for discussion purposes. It would make talk more interesting if it wasn't obviously fake.

I don't care about clones in principle. I don't have a problem with Doc or Lucina.
I hate Dark Pit because it makes me furious that Kid Icarus got 3 characters, and that Sakurai can't control his masturbatory urges.

On another note, can someone fill me in on shovel knight leak #741?

You have every right to hate him, just please don't say that he shouldn't be in the game over (insert character that wouldn't work like a clone here).

Don't put words in my mouth. That is a really insulting thing to say.
Sakurai put a buttload of kid icarus content in smash because he made and enjoyed the game. Meanwhile, Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, and too many other series to count got the shaft. He isn't being impartial. That is what makes me mad about Dark Pit, and to a lesser degree, Palutena. That is what I figuratively meant with the word masturbatory.

You can take your digusting accusations of sexism and shove em where the sun don't shine.

I mean Kid Icarus Uprising was popular. I think Palutena certainly deserved a spot for that.

 

[Burruni]

Y'know.
This really shows the range of maturity in the community.
Because I have, on these boards, legitimately drawn parallels to the power-heads of WWII to Nintendo's villains and everyone take it straight with a bit of humor on it.

Then again, there's the entire issue of that dude who mass bought RosaLuma amiibos because she's "A Hentai Character."

God forbid Bayonetta came up.

 

[NintenZ]

Y'know.
This really shows the range of maturity in the community.
Because I have, on these boards, legitimately drawn parallels to the power-heads of WWII to Nintendo's villains and everyone take it straight with a bit of humor on it.

Then again, there's the entire issue of that dude who mass bought RosaLuma amiibos because she's "A Hentai Character."

God forbid Bayonetta came up.

You've got to be kidding me...

 

[LIQUID12A]

Sakurai can't control his [redacted]

Even for an inflammatory Sakurai comment there are less disturbing ways you could have put it. :|

 

[The Light Music Club]

Y'know.
This really shows the range of maturity in the community.
Because I have, on these boards, legitimately drawn parallels to the power-heads of WWII to Nintendo's villains and everyone take it straight with a bit of humor on it.

Then again, there's the entire issue of that dude who mass bought RosaLuma amiibos because she's "A Hentai Character."

God forbid Bayonetta came up.

I was planning on taking in all of the Palutena amiibos...but that's because she's my fave character in the game. Not because I'm some jerk who hates the character so much to the point I don't let others have her. It's completely opposite.

The WWII comparison reminded me of when we voted for Rool and Ridley in RTC, and I thought we were voting on the chances of them being together like ICs and not them getting in as separate characters together.

 

[Wintropy]

Every time I think about Takamaru in Smash, I get sad.

Please help this sad kitty feel better, support Takamaru.

He'd do the same for you.

*Silently hugs Yomi's Biggest Fan *

 

[Burruni]

I can proudly say I've yet to buy an amiibo.

Because 's just looks odd when it's held up like that.
's eyes just look weird in a statue.
give me the Gerudo King, not Grampadorf
and... give me the real wario.

Edit: Then, for the Mario line... Luigi and Yoshi just seem too bland. And the splatoon amiibos weren't appealing for me for their rewards. I'm gonna make Nintendo work for my money.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Let's not bring up Mariotehplumber at all, shall we? It's best for us to pretend that little incident never happened for the sake of our sanity.

 

[Amberloo]

I was planning on taking in all of the Palutena amiibos...but that's because she's my fave character in the game. Not because I'm some jerk who hates the character so much to the point I don't let others have her. It's completely opposite.

So basically, it's a good thing I was sitting on Palutena's amiibo page on Amazon and constantly hitting refresh as soon as it was up?

 

[Lord-Zero]

Ah, Takamaru. The day when the Japanese fanbase was furious over his AT status.
There's still hope for him in future Smash games.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Every time I think about Takamaru in Smash, I get sad.

Please help this sad kitty feel better, support Takamaru.

He'd do the same for you.

*Silently hugs Yomi's Biggest Fan *

have some takumaru shaped catnip

The character looks interesting for sure. I certainly wouldn't have a problem with him.

 

[A Distant Demon]

WIsh I had something to edit this with pictures of Dark Pit

Why the **** did I do this? I LIKE Dark Pit :/

thanks for the reminder I need to play Mysterious murasame castle. Forgot again.

 

[The Light Music Club]

So basically, it's a good thing I was sitting on Palutena's amiibo page on Amazon and constantly hitting refresh as soon as it was up?

Indeed my friend. Indeed. Had I not been at Otakon, I would have had an amiibo buying party and invited like 15 people to help me get as many as we could.


On AT upgrades....I would like Ashley or Lyn to be upgraded.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Why the **** did I do this? I LIKE Dark Pit :/

Because it's funny to think there actually are people like this

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Honestly, I can't say I hate Sakurai for putting Dark Pit in.

I can hate the character and how stupidly advertisment-y he is ("HEY I'M FROM THE NEW KID ICARUS GAME THAT CAME OUT RECENTLY GO BUY IT IF YOU LOVE ME"), but he's just a clone character. He took up very little development time.

DP is certainly a horribly-executed clone, but one nonetheless. It's not like he's stolen a spot from someone or anything (though I ain't ashamed to admit I was super salty when he was leaked). I'd certainly have rathered his development time go into fine-tuning the game, but eh, I can deal.

But he shouldn't stick around. Make him an alt for Pit or just forget him altogether; he is not someone who's going to last the test of time so much as to justify his own slot on the roster from now on.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Honestly, I can't say I hate Sakurai for putting Dark Pit in.

I can hate the character and how stupidly advertisment-y he is ("HEY I'M FROM THE NEW KID ICARUS GAME THAT CAME OUT RECENTLY GO BUY IT IF YOU LOVE ME"), but he's just a clone character. He took up very little development time.

DP is certainly a horribly-executed clone, but one nonetheless. It's not like he's stolen a spot from someone or anything (though I ain't ashamed to admit I was super salty when he was leaked). I'd certainly have rathered his development time go into fine-tuning the game, but eh, I can deal.

But he shouldn't stick around. Make him an alt for Pit or just forget him altogether; he is not someone who's going to last the test of time so much as to justify his own slot on the roster from now on.

. . .KI U was released like 2 years before smash.

DP was in no way advertisement for the game :/

 

[The Light Music Club]

It's funny how people hate clones. The 3 in Smash 4...I prefer Dr. , Lucina, and DP over Mario, Marth, and Pit. Character wise for sure, and play style wise since I only play characters I like.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

See, I don't even get why he shouldn't stick around though. The roster isn't meant to satisfy everyone with everybody added. LOL.

He isn't a character that will take a ton of time. You lose nothing with his inclusion, but you lose a character by removing him. Why bother removing him? Removing him isn't going to magically bring another character in.

The only things I've read about Dark Pit at this point is, "If it were a character I liked that was a clone, I wouldn't care. But because it's Dark Pit and not a character I wanted, he should be cut."

Sounds very...again...whiny.

Can we change the subject maybe? Like something actually interesting? How about 3rd parties that fit the criteria that Source Gaming has laid out for us?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Every time I think about Takamaru in Smash, I get sad.

Please help this sad kitty feel better, support Takamaru.

He'd do the same for you.

*Silently hugs Yomi's Biggest Fan *

Thanks for the hug, fellow ronin.

He didn't really have that much going for him from the start until the localization happened and that was merely too late. Was surprised at the backlash in Japan though since it shows how a quiet group of supporters can be outraged at their favorite character having a fate worse than death.

While the AT does give him some extra promotion other than the game being on the 3DS eShop, he's down for the count until the next Smash. If anything big happens in the future like a revival (I'm looking at you, Kamiya-san the Troll) or the support base getting bigger, then I can can easily see Takamaru in a better situation than he is now.

Ain't that right, bksbestbwoy ?

 

[Sid-cada]

Now I also saw a comment about, "What about extra content elsewhere?"...that's easy. It's because characters are the biggest selling point. More characters to play as = more enjoyment. A few extra AT's isn't going to make somebody extra hyped. Not that Dark Pit did that himself...

Yeah, you don't have to praise the game as perfect. Nobody is saying that. It's just that sometimes the complaints about the game come across more as whiny and spoiled as opposed to legitimate critique of the game itself.

I'm sorry, but as the person you're singling out with this line here, I feel obliged to comment on this, m'kay?


Now, while characters can and would be the major selling point of the game, it's not the only one. And it's not like removing their clone status would remove them completely from the game: they're just in a Koopaling/Alph situation. Even better, because they're no longer secret characters, you can now use them in advertisements pre-release instead of just Lucina. Sakurai knows clones are somewhat controversial, which is why the worse, non-semi-clones are always secret characters. Why go to work on a somewhat controversial choice when they can already do their job without using extra development time? All this, and you have time that can be put to use spit-polishing the game.

And while AT might not bring in folks, there are still loads of other things they could have done. Would anyone complain if the Fountain of Dreams, Poke-floats, or some other stage made it in? Maybe a quick to program game mode, like King of The Hill or character switching like the end of Smash Tour, both of which are commonly requested ideas for alternate game modes? Even extra customizable moves, including the possibility of what made Lucina, Pittoo, and Doc different apply to all characters via some customization option?


I realize that, like it or not, I have to accept it. It's just that when I think of what could have been, I shake my head at the possibilities.

 

[LightheartedBum]

Might be a bit late to the party, but eh.
My two cents is, what rubs me the wrong way about Dark Pit is that he had so much potential. Like, Uprising has a billion different weapons, and Pit and Dark Pit clearly have differing choices on what weapons they like in game (In scenes seems like Pit uses the Silver Bow or something, Dark Pit uses his Staff/Club/ect) so arguing that it makes sense that they're so similar because they're literally clones of one another holds no weight.

I was actually pretty excited when he got thrown in at the end of Palutena's trailer. I couldn't wait to see the differences between him and pit, with them using a variety of weapons from Uprising that would make them two extremely different characters, albeit with perhaps the same jump and movement physics. I seriously thought it was a no brainier when I saw him, I absolutely didn't expect him to show up to be just an exact clone (sans literally two specials and a final smash) of Pit. It's just a boatload of wasted potential, to me.

But on the flipside, if Sakurai didn't have time to do something like that (he was added last) I'm glad he got in on his own. Kid Icarus did deserve another rep, and shoehorning a Pit clone in Dark Pit was the most efficient decision. Dark Pit sure differentiates himself from Pit in Uprising mannerism and character wise, so I'm not mad he was tossed in.

But seriously, people arguing that he does justifiably differentiate himself from Pit have no idea what's going on.

Just a tad dissapointed. Haven't checked, but It'd be nice if their customs were way different from one another's.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Really hope this shovel knight rumor is true.He'll be a great addition

 

[Wintropy]

Can we change the subject maybe? Like something actually interesting? How about 3rd parties that fit the criteria that Source Gaming has laid out for us?

Pretty high standards, which makes sense considering that third-parties are supposed to be "special guest" characters.

Off the top of my head, I think Rayman fits the bill. I do love Layton and Shantae, but I don't think they're quite there yet.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

. . .KI U was released like 2 years before smash.

DP was in no way advertisement for the game :/

That's why I said "advertisement-y"; he feels like he was added as an alt to sort of be "the" Uprising character for the game, and the feeling didn't really leave once he got his own slot. Hence feeling like an advertisement; if it were, say, Viridi as a Palutena clone, it wouldn't feel that way because she's got so much distinction from Palutena, so far as visual aesthetics go. Dark Pit is...Pit with dyed hair, black clothes and red contacts. And a puberty-stricken voice.

He just sort of feels too same-y. I may have come off a little harsh, but that's because I find DP to be one of the more...boring characters, even as far as clones go. If he were like a Ganondorf Pit, then I'd be fine; they'd feel different to play and I could accept him.

But he's not; he's got like three different properties from normal Pit. That is below acceptable to me; they aren't even big, playstyle-changing changes like Lucina got. It's just minor tweaks to some moves. All you literally had to do to make me OK with DP as a clone is make him noticably different from Pit overall, not just in a few moves. Again, make him Ganondorf Pit; there's something I'd be OK with.

But an almost carbon-copy? Nothing can justify that aside from time crunch. They could have easily decided to make DP a newcomer with Claws, Clubs and any of the other different weapons that Pit doesn't use. That'd have been great.

But again, he's nigh-identical to Pit. Make him different somehow overall, not just in certain moves!

 

[Kenith]

Again, Lucina's changes don't change her playstyle. She still has to be played like Marth in order to work effectively (using that term loosely as she is probably bottom 10 right now).
I think it's comparably to Dark Pit though as while he is exactly the same otherwise, his two changed specials ARE substantially different, and his Final Smash.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Honestly, I can't think of a lot of 3rd parties with a lot of influence besides...Snake. I'd love to hear more ideas though, honest!

Rayman would be a good choice, even if he didn't "redefine" anything necessarily. He's still a gaming icon, or at least I think you could argue he is.

Indies (as much of a guilty pleasure as SK would be), I feel like need to break some boundaries in the industry. If Shovel Knight continues to succeed a few years from now, then I could see him getting added.

I'm honestly kinda glad the whole, "good relationship with Nintendo" thing got pooped on a little bit. I mean, it's not like a character like Master Chief of Kratos would ever get in, but the other extreme isn't that great either.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Honestly? I've gotten to the point where I am really optimistic about a future for everyone's favorite old school Samurai Wintropy Yomi's Biggest Fan . I found out through the duration of the ballot lifetime that there are actually a lot of people who are open minded towards his inclusion and have actually silently supported him in a few ways. It means a lot (at least in my eyes) because with Sakurai's words essentially saying that he was skipped over for a playable status because of his impression of the character only being loosely popular in Japan/no worldwide notability, there's a reasonably sized support group for him in the west and curiosity has been piqued enough despite all the things that could be thrown out against him ("blue haired swordsman" [still wish if he had black hair lol], "too niche", "not 'recent hype' enough", "character is too simple", etc.).

 

[Burruni]

See, I don't even get why he shouldn't stick around though. The roster isn't meant to satisfy everyone with everybody added. LOL.

He isn't a character that will take a ton of time. You lose nothing with his inclusion, but you lose a character by removing him. Why bother removing him? Removing him isn't going to magically bring another character in.

The only things I've read about Dark Pit at this point is, "If it were a character I liked that was a clone, I wouldn't care. But because it's Dark Pit and not a character I wanted, he should be cut."

Sounds very...again...whiny.

Can we change the subject maybe? Like something actually interesting? How about 3rd parties that fit the criteria that Source Gaming has laid out for us?

Considering that they let him appear in Mario Hoops 3 on 3 and Mario Sports Mix... I don't think getting in Smash would be below the bar of...

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, I can't think of a lot of 3rd parties with a lot of influence besides...Snake. I'd love to hear more ideas though, honest!

Rayman would be a good choice, even if he didn't "redefine" anything necessarily. He's still a gaming icon, or at least I think you could argue he is.

Indies (as much of a guilty pleasure as SK would be), I feel like need to break some boundaries in the industry. If Shovel Knight continues to succeed a few years from now, then I could see him getting added.

I'm honestly kinda glad the whole, "good relationship with Nintendo" thing got pooped on a little bit. I mean, it's not like a character like Master Chief of Kratos would ever get in, but the other extreme isn't that great either.

The only third-party characters that I can think of that are on par with Snake are Banjo and Kazooie. I interpret them as King and Queen of the 3D Platformer. They sort of have the best of both regarding the "good relationship with Nintendo" aspect of that discussion. On one hand, they used to be Nintendo. On the other, they are currently with their massive competitor.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Again, Lucina's changes don't change her playstyle. She still has to be played like Marth in order to work effectively (using that term loosely as she is probably bottom 10 right now).
I think it's comparably to Dark Pit though as while he is exactly the same otherwise, his two changed specials ARE substantially different, and his Final Smash.

Since Lucina doesn;t have the tipper and is slightly shorter Lall of her attacks at least have different properties,
it's not much better but Dark Pit literally just has 3-4 differences, so Lucina is most certainly a step up from him

 

[LIQUID12A]

And yet there is STILL a clone argument.

This honestly should have blown off, I don't know, a year ago. Right now we have a wealth of relevant subjects to talk of even if we tend to go in circles with them, but no, let's whine about clones for the umpteenth time because "HURP DURP NOT DIFFERENT NOT VARIED NOT WORTHY".

Honestly, I can't think of a lot of 3rd parties with a lot of influence besides...Snake. I'd love to hear more ideas though, honest!.

I could vouch for Crash Bandicoot, he was a major PlayStation icon back in the day and a mascot platformer that actually had success. Sure, his series is in limbo, but that didn't stop Mega Man.

Though I still see Rayman above him.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I get the feeling that Square is probably the last "megaton" level Japanese gaming company that has characters to contribute to Smash, be they more "iconic" classes/figures (Black Mage, Chocobo, DQ Slimes) or established characters (Chrono, Cloud, Sora, DQ Heroes).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Considering that they let him appear in Mario Hoops 3 on 3 and Mario Sports Mix... I don't think getting in Smash would be below the bar of...

If transformations wouldn't be such an issue, I think a FF character(s) would be cool with a party change mechanic. But considering the PKMN Trainer, I doubt it would happen.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

While I personally have a bias towards Spyro, I think Rayman is the most likely candidate next to Snake. Rayman trophies already being in the game just point to strong relations between Ubi and Ninty, and it certainly points to potential willingness the use the character.

EDIT: I also feel Black Mage could be a possibility since FF games do have a history appearing on Nintendo consoles, even if it's just spin-offs like Crystal Chronicles (which are great games btw). And someone made mention of the Mario Hoops crossover, and I feel those crossover games add to the chances of a SE character.

 

[False Sense]

Can we change the subject maybe? Like something actually interesting? How about 3rd parties that fit the criteria that Source Gaming has laid out for us?

Well, for the most part, this just confirms the high standards set for Third Party inclusions, with Sakurai frequently citing the importance of the character's history and how he won't just add anyone. This definitely limits their pool of viable candidates, to say the least.

Snake certainly has all the qualifications. The real question with him is whether or not they can get him back after already being removed (for some reason).

I think Rayman is a pretty notable one. He's got quite a legacy behind him, would be unique as far as characters go, and he's got a decent following, especially after his "leak."

I'd also say someone from Final Fantasy would qualify as well, but the problem with that is that there's not exactly a clear cut choice to represent the series. I'm a fan of Black Mage, though.

Aside from those three, nobody else really comes to mind. With the given criteria, I just don't think the other popular candidates (like say, Shovel Knight, Bayonetta, or Layton) match up to the standards set here.