Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[CBO0tz]

I personally think there should be an Third-party Indie trio/duo.. Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Quote/Banjo & Kazooie.

And then the other three characters(if the 6 max characters is to be believed) could be Bandana Dee, Wolf, and King K. Rool.

 

[papagenos]

I am mostly negative towards him in response to the staggering positivity in regard to his chances. Honestly, prior to those "leaks" most people did not give Shovel Knight the time of day; currently, certain individuals act as though he is inevitable. It is not a good reason to detract a character, but I just feel as though a Mii Costume is more than enough recognition. A lot of people spout about (intentional rhymes... Okay, fine, it was not intentional) his uniqueness; however, I have yet to see them provide any specific examples. I just get this general "meh" vibe from him. If we are going to get an indie third-party character, Shantae seems more logical and more warranted.

Shovel Knight really would make a good Mii costume tbh. Full armor and he's short, the whole Mii could be covered up by the costume and, unlike black knight, look proportional.

K Rools Mii costume for example looks bad and he's not a character that works good as a costume. Would hate to find out I'm living in the reality where this was the case and not the more logical reverse...

 

[Morbi]

I personally think there should be an Third-party Indie trio.. Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Quote.

And then the other three characters(if the 6 max characters is to be believed) could be Bandana Dee, Wolf, and King K. Rool.

I am not entirely opposed to the idea; albeit, if we were to receive three third-party characters, I would prefer that they were more diverse. One indie character is enough for me. I should also add that I do not believe that Quote is on par with Shantae or Shovel Knight. So if we did receive three, I would prefer a more relevant character.

 

[Ivander]

So... they turned a dragon into a Mii costume... what if they do this again...?

Not really. This is what the Rathalos armor is actually based off of.

Basically in Monster Hunter, you kill monsters and use their parts to make weapons and armor and as you can see, the armor and weapons are based off of the monster. So really, the armor was already based off of Rathalos to start with. The Hunter armor is based on a recurring starting armor set.

 

[Skyblade12]

Not really. This is what the Rathalos armor is actually based off of.

Basically in Monster Hunter, you kill monsters and use their parts to make weapons and armor and as you can see, the armor and weapons are based off of the monster. So really, the armor was already based off of Rathalos to start with. The Hunter armor is based on a recurring starting armor set.

Yep. It'd be more accurate to say "Monster Hunters turned a dragon into a costume".

 

[CannonStreak]

About that additional slots thing, I talked to Random Talking Bush, who datamined the latest update, and he says there aren't any additional slots in the update.

 

[CBO0tz]

I am not entirely opposed to the idea; albeit, if we were to receive three third-party characters, I would prefer that they were more diverse. One indie character is enough for me. I should also add that I do not believe that Quote is on par with Shantae or Shovel Knight. So if we did receive three, I would prefer a more relevant character.

I suppose diversity is the most important thing in a fighting game.. Both in character design, and origins..

If I were to pick 1 indie character, it would be Shovel Knight. He has the best fitting criteria to be a Smash character. His moves would all translate to fighting games smoothly, he has pretty much as many attacks in his game as a Smash Bros character, he has recolors, and he's adorable and recognizable.

The other 2 characters I'd pick for 3rd party would have to be Rayman and Banjo/Kazooie.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Personally, **** anybody who says that their character is a "shoe-in" for DLC. Because they are not, and this attitude of "This character is FOR SURE IN, AND ALL OTHER CHARACTERS ARE NOT!" is just obnoxious. Some of the vet supporters can be extremely guilty about this, but it's very apparent for one character in particular; Butt Butt-I mean, Shovel Knight.

Shovel Knight got this a lot, because he's essentially sort of become a bandwagon character; first his fans wanted him in, which is fine...then sometime after he got Smashified, everybody starts promoting him and suddenly he's extremely popular, and ONLY because he's an indie with an Amiibo did this bandwagon even remain so huge. There's also the double standards to deal with; Shovel Knight can be hailed as the second coming of Iwata himself, other characters get dragged through the mud by people who claim that they can't be in because Shovel Knight is supposedly already being developed...which I find INCREDIBLY doubtful, since Japan knows virtually NOTHING about him, and by the time the game even releases in Japan, the Ballot will have been long finished, and it's newcomer(s) decided.

There is NO LOGICAL REASON to say Shovel Knight is confirmed, and frankly I think seeing Ridley as the Ballot winner is more likely than Shovel Knight, especially since Ridley's support has been far more constant in both sides of the world.

 

[Morbi]

Personally, **** anybody who says that their character is a "shoe-in" for DLC. Because they are not, and this attitude of "This character is FOR SURE IN, AND ALL OTHER CHARACTERS ARE NOT!" is just obnoxious. Some of the vet supporters can be extremely guilty about this, but it's very apparent for one character in particular; Butt Butt-I mean, Shovel Knight.

Shovel Knight got this a lot, because he's essentially sort of become a bandwagon character; first his fans wanted him in, which is fine...then sometime after he got Smashified, everybody starts promoting him and suddenly he's extremely popular, and ONLY because he's an indie with an Amiibo did this bandwagon even remain so huge. There's also the double standards to deal with; Shovel Knight can be hailed as the second coming of Iwata himself, other characters get dragged through the mud by people who claim that they can't be in because Shovel Knight is supposedly already being developed...which I find INCREDIBLY doubtful, since Japan knows virtually NOTHING about him, and by the time the game even releases in Japan, the Ballot will have been long finished, and it's newcomer(s) decided.

There is NO LOGICAL REASON to say Shovel Knight is confirmed, and frankly I think seeing Ridley as the Ballot winner is more likely than Shovel Knight, especially since Ridley's support has been far more constant in both sides of the world.

Correct, I have observed this attitude quite frequently in the Wolf thread; however, as time passes and Wolf does not make an appearance, that mentality has began to dissipate. I thought Wolf was "shoe-in" for the main, on-disc roster. I was, unfortunately, completely and utterly wrong. So, I have not made the mistake of believing that Wolf is guaranteed. Because he is not. It would be slightly disheartening to see him neglected just because fans of his character thought that he was next in line, or already in development.

 

[The Novice Sword]

I'm definitely of the opinion that a Mii Costume for a character that isn't already playable probably negatively impacts that character's chances, but since it's a totally new situation we can't say for sure.

I'm also of the opinion that Shovel Knight probably isn't all that likely as a playable character. Nintendo is pretty lukewarm to indie developers and he's not really known in the East. Plus, to me the "leaks and rumors" smack mostly of the "my uncle works at Nintendo" thing we all used to hear back in the 90s. Then again who knows? I'd say at the very least he's far from a shoe in.

Otherwise, my likely ballot characters list is something like:
Dixie Kong: the other highly requested DK character that doesn't have a Mii costume. Although she may be considered too similar to Diddy.

Bandanna Dee/Magalor: Both are pretty popular and seem to fit the uniqueness and representation criteria we assume. From what I can tell Dee is more requested in the West and Magalor is more requested in the East. I may be wrong about that.

Wolf/Krystal: Wolf is also a ridiculously popular choice, but there may be some kind of reason he was cut in the first place that we don't know about. Krystal is also popular and seems unique enough that she may be spark Sakurai's interest.

 

[Lord-Zero]

That Viridi Mii Costume looks great. A lot of work went into that costume. It's probably my favorite of the bunch.

 

[CBO0tz]

I find it kind of hippocritical that people HATE on Shovel Knight because he has so many fans.

Like seriously. What is wrong with having so many people hype for him? Can he NOT be hyped for because people in another country don't know him..?

WHAT WAS MARTH BEFORE MELEE??!!

 

[Morbi]

I find it kind of hippocritical that people HATE on Shovel Knight because he has so many fans.

Like seriously. What is wrong with having so many people hype for him? Can he NOT be hyped for because people in another country don't know him..?

WHAT WAS MARTH BEFORE MELEE??!!

It is not so much hypocritical as it is irrational. There is nothing inherently wrong with having a lot of supporters, but with a great amount of supporters comes a great amount of detractors. Ask the Ridley fan-base.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Personally, **** anybody who says that their character is a "shoe-in" for DLC. Because they are not, and this attitude of "This character is FOR SURE IN, AND ALL OTHER CHARACTERS ARE NOT!" is just obnoxious. Some of the vet supporters can be extremely guilty about this, but it's very apparent for one character in particular; Butt Butt-I mean, Shovel Knight.

The irony of this is two years ago Ridley was the one considered such a shoe-in that anyone who didn't put them on their prediction rosters was considered an outsider. K. Rool's been this too slightly more recently.

It's always been a general attitude I can't stomach. Support for a character is beautiful, arrogance is just ugly.

I agree with the statement however. No one is a shoe-in as Smash 4 DLC. Not even Wolf.

 

[Lord-Zero]

I think part of the disdain for Shovel Knight lies in the bandwagoners, the fake leaks and part of his fanbase acting that they hacked Sakurai's brain and are sure he's in and give off a rather arrogant feel. The Shantae fanbase suffers from a similar problem.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm personally done with 3rd party/indie characters. I'm not saying there aren't any that I'd like to see, but I'm more than content with what we have now.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I don't dislike Shovel Knight as a character, just as a Smash Bros. character. He's on every current console, and hasn't really shown any bias to a certain system. He's as much as a Nintendo All-Star as a Microsoft and Sony one. I just don't find him too deserving as of now, especially when there's bigger characters out there with more of a history with Nintendo, including Shantae, who takes the indie uniqueness out of Shovel Knight if she got in.

 

[Doctor3AM]

I don't dislike Shovel Knight as a character, just as a Smash Bros. character. He's on every current console, and hasn't really shown any bias to a certain system. He's as much as a Nintendo All-Star as a Microsoft and Sony one. I just don't find him too deserving as of now, especially when there's bigger characters out there with more of a history with Nintendo, including Shantae, who takes the indie uniqueness out of Shovel Knight if she got in.

He sorta kinda has an amiibo . Nintendo was also the second platform to have Shovel Knight after PC. And if that isn't enough, the gameplay of Shovel Knight is inspired by Nintendo games.

 

[ToddCam]

The irony of this is two years ago Ridley was the one considered such a shoe-in that anyone who didn't put them on their prediction rosters was considered an outsider. K. Rool's been this too slightly more recently.

It's always been a general attitude I can't stomach. Support for a character is beautiful, arrogance is just ugly.

I agree with the statement however. No one is a shoe-in as Smash 4 DLC. Not even Wolf.

Interesting. I never got that sense. Passion surely. But as a supporter, though far from vocal, I was terrified Sakurai was a "too bigot ".

 

[Pazzo.]

I find it kind of hippocritical that people HATE on Shovel Knight because he has so many fans.

Like seriously. What is wrong with having so many people hype for him? Can he NOT be hyped for because people in another country don't know him..?

WHAT WAS MARTH BEFORE MELEE??!!

A... First Party character... From a long running series five games strong...

Yeah.

 

[Autumn ♫]

He sorta kinda has an amiibo . Nintendo was also the second platform to have Shovel Knight after PC. And if that isn't enough, the gameplay of Shovel Knight is inspired by Nintendo games.

He may have an amiibo, but Microsoft has the BattleToads with him, which I would consider on equal footing, since Microsoft doesn't have an amiibo counterpart, along with Sony's Kratos exclusive. He also started on Microsoft Windows from what the wiki says, but it may have been any computer, I'm not good at computers compatibility to play games.

I thought he was more based off of retro games as a whole, not just Nintendo's.

 

[CBO0tz]

A... First Party character... From a long running series five games strong...

Yeah.

Did you know about him before Melee? Probably not, because he was originally a JAPAN-EXCLUSIVE GAME CHARACTER.

I don't know if I'm wrong(which I sure I am, given its the internet), but I think its a bit unfair that Marth and Roy were quickly added to Melee to get people interested in the Fire Emblem series, while Shovel Knight is being burned because he's only known in Western Countries.

Sure, he doesn't have multiple games, but if he was promoted in East as a character the same way Marth was, maybe there'd be more support for him.

 

[False Sense]

Personally, I'm not exactly a fan of the idea of Shovel Knight in Smash. Nothing against the character or his game (I'm sure it's great), but I'm against the inclusion of lesser Third Party characters on principal. Currently, Third Party characters in Smash are limited to only a handful of gaming legends, and I would rather that high standard be maintained. I don't think we should just go about adding any Third Party character that gets a well-received game.

But that's just me.

 

[Pazzo.]

Did you know about him before Melee? Probably not, because he was originally a JAPAN-EXCLUSIVE GAME CHARACTER.

I don't know if I'm wrong(which I sure I am, given its the internet), but I think its a bit unfair that Marth and Roy were quickly added to Melee to get people interested in the Fire Emblem series, while Shovel Knight is being burned because he's only known in Western Countries.

Sure, he doesn't have multiple games, but if he was promoted in East as a character the same way Marth was, maybe there'd be more support for him.

You're missing the point.

Fire Emblem is owned by Nintendo.

Shovel Knight, on the other hand, is not.

Intellige?

 

[Wintropy]

Did you know about him before Melee? Probably not, because he was originally a JAPAN-EXCLUSIVE GAME CHARACTER.

I don't know if I'm wrong(which I sure I am, given its the internet), but I think its a bit unfair that Marth and Roy were quickly added to Melee to get people interested in the Fire Emblem series, while Shovel Knight is being burned because he's only known in Western Countries.

Sure, he doesn't have multiple games, but if he was promoted in East as a character the same way Marth was, maybe there'd be more support for him.

They weren't added to get people interested.

Sakurai was going to cut them from the western release because nobody outside of Japan knew them.

 

[CBO0tz]

They weren't added to get people interested.

Sakurai was going to cut them from the western release because nobody outside of Japan knew them.

Thanks, I didn't know why they were added off the top of my head.

 

[Doctor Troggy]

If any Indie characters get in, the most likely (IMO) would have to be either Shantae or Bit Trip's Commander Video. Commander Video is already in Smash 4 as a trophy and Shantae's debut title was exclusive to Nintendo, as was Risky's Revenge when it first came out. Both character's games have also been advertised and highlighted by Nintendo in the past, so I'd say they're the most likely indie submissions. Mostly since Nintendo has dabbled with them in the past. Although, what I just said could be utter crap, so we'll have to wait and see.

 

[CBO0tz]

You're missing the point.

Fire Emblem is owned by Nintendo.

Shovel Knight, on the other hand, is not.

Intellige?

The point is Shovel Knight is being recognized by Nintendo. Hence the amiibo. If more people like him, the closer the developer of Shovel Knight is going to be working with Nintendo. Hopefully, that leads to Shovel-Knight sequels on the current-gen Nintendo systems.

 

[Pazzo.]

The point is Shovel Knight is being recognized by Nintendo. Hence the amiibo. If more people like him, the closer the developer of Shovel Knight is going to be working with Nintendo. Hopefully, that leads to Shovel-Knight sequels on the current-gen Nintendo systems.

That's all fine-and-dandy, but an indie game getting recognized by Nintendo is nothing new.

Shovel Knight can wait his turn, because under your logic, there's a whole list of indies ahead of him.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Yacht Clubs money was recognized by Nintendo to get the amiibo not his popultarity/legacy

 

[Wintropy]

Incidentally, it's the same reason why Ayumu Tachibana *sob* and Takamaru *sniff* were rejected in Melee and Smash 4 respectively: they're not very popular outside of Japan, if they're recognised at all.

Little Mac can be considered an exception to an extent, since his game was designed by a Japanese-American team and Punch-Out!! had the most success in the US, but he's still an iconic character from Nintendo's early years, he was an Assist Trophy in Brawl and Punch-Out!! Wii had a very successful worldwide release. Some Japanese fans may not have recognised him initially, but he didn't have quite the same "Wait, who?" reaction that Marth did and Ayumi would have had.

Which is why I think Shovel Knight is a peculiar case. I think that, if he does get in, it will be due to Nintendo deciding it'd be a good business venture and convincing Sakurai that it's a good idea. Short of Sakurai being a big Yacht Club fan, I can't see him voluntarily adding the character over others.

Which is why I think the "third-parties have a better chance than others" theory is tish-tosh. DLC is going to factor in Nintendo's executive opinion, that is certain, but I don't think Sakurai will just say, "Yeah, this obscure character that has no direct connection to Nintendo is doing pretty well, I'm gonna go out of my way to negotiate the rights with the creators despite being on a tight schedule and having a relatively tiny dev team."

I'm being facetious, but you get the point.

Point is, I can only see Sakurai go in for Layton or Jibanyan (nothing against either character, before fingers get pointed) if Nintendo cajoles him into doing so for marketing reasons. Otherwise, with the rich canon of first-party characters at his disposal (most of whom, let's be honest, have waaaay more support than the vast majority of third-party characters whose name isn't Snake), I don't see why he wouldn't just satisfy the fans directly with the characters that have been more consistently requested and who don't require complex investment contracts to get in.

 

[Skyblade12]

The point is Shovel Knight is being recognized by Nintendo. Hence the amiibo. If more people like him, the closer the developer of Shovel Knight is going to be working with Nintendo. Hopefully, that leads to Shovel-Knight sequels on the current-gen Nintendo systems.

Also worth noting: The amiibo was being driven by Yacht Club. Nintendo let them use the name and the technology. Yacht Club developed it, had it built, and it is currently only supported directly by games that Yacht Club makes. Yacht Club asked Nintendo for the amiibo, not the other way around.

 

[Arcadenik]

All this third-party and indie talk... and all I want is Simon Belmont.

 

[CBO0tz]

That's all fine-and-dandy, but an indie game getting recognized by Nintendo is nothing new.

Shovel Knight can wait his turn, because under your logic, there's a whole list of indies ahead of him.

If we're going under "my" logic, then the reason he's a potential candidate is because he's more visible to Nintendo than other Indie characters.

Honestly, all this stirring up about Shovel Knight on here is probably just making him more popular than ever. Nobody's having this sort of discussion about the 'whole list of indies' you're talking about. Shantae is the only other character people are talking about as much as Shovel Knight who's Indie.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I'm sure that absolutely nobody would complain if Shovel Knight were a Swordfighter costume.

Okay, maybe not complain massively, sure there would be some people saying stuff but it would be a far better outcome in the sense that he's in but not in a position that would anger those wishing for more deserving third parties.

 

[Pazzo.]

If we're going under "my" logic, then the reason he's a potential candidate is because he's more visible to Nintendo than other Indie characters.

Honestly, all this stirring up about Shovel Knight on here is probably just making him more popular than ever. Nobody's having this sort of discussion about the 'whole list of indies' you're talking about. Shantae is the only other character people are talking about as much as Shovel Knight who's Indie.

That's your opinion, not logic.

And I've heard a wide range of users here discuss everyone from Quote to Commander Video.

 

[False Sense]

I'm sure that absolutely nobody would complain if Shovel Knight were a Swordfighter costume.

Okay, maybe not complain massively, sure there would be some people saying stuff but it would be a far better outcome in the sense that he's in but not in a position that would anger those wishing for more deserving third parties.

Honestly, I think a Mii costume would be perfect for him.

Not to mention it would actually look good.

 

[Pazzo.]

Honestly, I think a Mii costume would be perfect for him.

Not to mention it would actually look good.

Considering the number of different costumes we've gotten, this wouldn't surprise me.

I'd never have thought Monster Hunter would have gotten two costumes.

 

[Wintropy]

The best indie character is Reimu Hakurei.

Honestly, I'd find it pretty funny if Sakurai saw demand for third-party characters and decided to take the essence of the character and use it in a first-party character instead.

"Oh, you wanted Banjo-Kazooie? Well, here's Duck Hunt: it's a mammal with a bird on its back that shoots things and flies!"

"Oh, you wanted Shovel Knight? Well, here's Isaac: he's a brave hero with a wide variety of magic powers and a shiny weapon!"

"Oh, you wanted Shantae? Well, here's Dixie Kong: she's a female fighter who loves music and hits things with her hair (and is a simian)!"

"Oh, you wanted Snake? Well, here's Villager: it isn't even remotely the same thing, but Kojima said it'd be funny!"

And so forth.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Shantae would also be fitting with the same treatment. Give her a body suit like the one King K. Rool has.

It might look off, but then again so does the KKR Mii.