DK a Samus counter?

[MEXICAN]

I Played HugS at SCC and i 2 stocked his samus before losing to his ganon =(. But i talked to him afterwards and he was telling me that he always loses to DK. He's lost to PKM Vodka and AOB i think he said. And to be honest, i've never lost to a samus as DK except for my crewmate DARKMIKE. Lets look at why dk might be a samus counter.

Donkey Kongs b air ***** samus. It eats through her missiles, and is quick. Samus is also a very tall target for the b air. Samus doesn't really have a shield grab game, which helps DK a lot. Giant Punch *****, period. Its no exception when it comes to samus. Samus is tall enough to get hit with the up b when dk is on the ground. And once samus is in the air, its hard for her to do much. Once she's in the air, she's there for awhile, setting her up for a b air every time since dk's b air will beat just about everything samus has.

Now the downsides. Samus doesn't die, and dk can't do much to edgeguard her, but then again, who can? A well placed n air can be a problem for dk. DK doesn't really have many combos on samus except for u throw u air at low damages, and a DK version of the wall of pain with b airs, which is pretty difficult to get off. Well placed charge shot hurts dk, and DK can be edgeguarded by samus fairly easily.

Overall, i think that the good greatly outweighs the bad. I think dk definately has the advantage in this fight.

 

[brg]

you beat hugs? ****!

 

[P.c. Chris]

Bum usually beats wes it looks like samus does have trouble vs dk but i wouldn't say its a full blown counter a lot of people simply don't have any good DK experience.

 

[max32090]

yeah maybe hugs just sucks vs dk

 

[AOB]

Yes, I beat HugS pretty well in friendlies, but it was in January 2005 at MOAST 3.

I have always liked DK against Samus. She's not very fast and she can't grab him, and the down smash is pretty useless.

 

[pressthebutton]

for edgeguarding, couldnt samus time an utilt? im one of those samus' who have no DK experience, and i do not wanna lose to a **** donkey kong.

 

[Pdiz]

Now the downsides. Samus doesn't die, and dk can't do much to edgeguard her, but then again, who can?

I've been playing DK competitively for about 3 months now, and I've actually developed a really good away to edgeguard, which also works very well against Samus. Basically I hop on the edge and wait someone to get close enough for me to fall then double jump outward and hit someone with the beginning of the upB attack. I'm fairly safe when doing this because A) the upB will outprioritize almost anyone recovering with an attack, and B) the upB has so much horizontal recovery, I can afford to go out far. So if a Samus is stalling out there semi close to the edge, then I can hit her out of her bomb jump or at least take out one of the bombs easily and hopefully even kill her if she's like 100 percent. Also if she comes in really low to use the grapple beam, then I can hold down on the ledge and do a quick upB to hit her as she springs up from her grapple beam, therefore knocking her back out without a grapplebeam. The upB also even outprioritizes Samus' upB. Basically this only leaves Samus the option of coming in high, which ain't too bad . This tactic also works really well against, mario, doc, ganon, cflac, links, shiek, and tons of other characters.

I hope this isn't already a well-known thing :-P.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I just play DK as for fun in my spare time but, yeah, Samus may have a big target but the target is hard to kill. DK has just one DI when facing Samus, Up. Well that and maybe a tilt to the left or right. But add that to the fact that a Samus trying to get down from an Up Cargo throw and Uair combo is just nuts. I don't even bother with most of the smashes when playing DK and I think this match up most if not all of DK's tilts are pretty difficult to get passed if a missle doesn't hit him.

On the Bair vs. Missle thing: You kinda have to admit that a Samus has to be either in range to screw up a Missle or they don't get a SHMC and then they are in danger of being hit.

Also counter picking. I thought about this and Samus while she does survive longer on bigger stages, DK might survive as long or longer. And on smaller Stages DK can probably match or beat the KO strength of her F Smash. The only stage I think Samus can probably beat DK on with a slight advantage is, Rotating platform stage, sorry I forget the name its late.

But yeah I guess DK might be a small counter against Samus. I would need to play this match a whole lot more to say for sure but yeah.

 

[MEXICAN]

for edgeguarding, couldnt samus time an utilt? im one of those samus' who have no DK experience, and i do not wanna lose to a **** donkey kong.

Yeah, samus can u tilt dk, my friend DarkMike USED to do it all the time, but he learned not to anymore. Every time he did, i just tech'd it and he caught a lot of damage from my up b. It would work against a dk that doesn't know how to ledge tech, but its fairly easy to ledge tech with dk in comparison to other characters..

I've been playing DK competitively for about 3 months now, and I've actually developed a really good away to edgeguard, which also works very well against Samus. Basically I hop on the edge and wait someone to get close enough for me to fall then double jump outward and hit someone with the beginning of the upB attack. I'm fairly safe when doing this because A) the upB will outprioritize almost anyone recovering with an attack, and B) the upB has so much horizontal recovery, I can afford to go out far. So if a Samus is stalling out there semi close to the edge, then I can hit her out of her bomb jump or at least take out one of the bombs easily and hopefully even kill her if she's like 100 percent. Also if she comes in really low to use the grapple beam, then I can hold down on the ledge and do a quick upB to hit her as she springs up from her grapple beam, therefore knocking her back out without a grapplebeam. The upB also even outprioritizes Samus' upB. Basically this only leaves Samus the option of coming in high, which ain't too bad . This tactic also works really well against, mario, doc, ganon, cflac, links, shiek, and tons of other characters.

I hope this isn't already a well-known thing :-P.

Ok, this doesn't really work against an experienced samus. This is a well known fact an works better against characters like fox or falco. It doesn't really work against samus. I use samus as my secondary and i would never get hit by that. I would just bomb jump around and space myself properly.


However, one way to edgeguard samus that i use once in awhile, is i simply grab the edge and wait. Samus players will usually just throw out the grapple hook thing (forgot what its called). This will usually hit you, knocking you off the edge. I use this to my advantage. Once it hits me, i immediately hit up b, and when samus pulls in is about the time the up b comes out. So she'll pull herself right into your up b, knocking her back further and taking away her grapple hook. Then its up to you from there. Similar strategies can be used against falcon and ganondorf. I grab the edge and wait until they are about to use their up b. I let myself get grabbed by their up b, and then i tech off the wall with a wall jump, and immediately down air. It will hit them everytime, since they have no control over where they end up after their up b. The other good thing about that is that since they grabbed you, you get your jump back if you used it. You could also try a wall jump with a n air into a f air, but this is really risky. If you don't have the timing down perfectly, you'll die. I personally just recommend the down air with an edgehog.

And yes, i did beat HugS samus, and i've honestly never lost to a samus besides DarkMikes. I got 13th at Super Champ Combo, and although thats not hella good, its not bad either. Hugs was the one that eliminated me with his ganon in rounds 2 and 3 since i beat his samus round 1

 

[Bass.]

I'm not sure if the person before you was refering to jumping out at samus and Up Bing, but it works pretty well. Especially if they try to bomb and space themselves properly. I could throw a back air out force them to bomb, jump to an up B. It either forces them farther away from the edge or gets them hit. Either way I get to ledge grab before them. But yeah, a good DK has a slight advantage over samus. However, PC might be right in saying there's just not enough DK experiences for Samus players.

 

[pressthebutton]

Yeah, samus can u tilt dk, my friend DarkMike USED to do it all the time, but he learned not to anymore. Every time he did, i just tech'd it and he caught a lot of damage from my up b. It would work against a dk that doesn't know how to ledge tech, but its fairly easy to ledge tech with dk in comparison to other characters..

However, one way to edgeguard samus that i use once in awhile, is i simply grab the edge and wait. Samus players will usually just throw out the grapple hook thing (forgot what its called). This will usually hit you, knocking you off the edge. I use this to my advantage. Once it hits me, i immediately hit up b, and when samus pulls in is about the time the up b comes out. So she'll pull herself right into your up b, knocking her back further and taking away her grapple hook. Then its up to you from there. Similar strategies can be used against falcon and ganondorf. I grab the edge and wait until they are about to use their up b. I let myself get grabbed by their up b, and then i tech off the wall with a wall jump, and immediately down air. It will hit them everytime, since they have no control over where they end up after their up b. The other good thing about that is that since they grabbed you, you get your jump back if you used it. You could also try a wall jump with a n air into a f air, but this is really risky. If you don't have the timing down perfectly, you'll die. I personally just recommend the down air with an edgehog.

well i can see how you would be able to tech the utilt if you were right next to the ledge, but if the samus times the utilt to where the DK isn't next to the ledge, wou wouldn't be able to tech it, right?

and when you get hit by the grapple when the samus is recovering, they could just wait to actually retract their grapple, sitting below the DK with their grapple out.

 

[MEXICAN]

well i can see how you would be able to tech the utilt if you were right next to the ledge, but if the samus times the utilt to where the DK isn't next to the ledge, wou wouldn't be able to tech it, right?

and when you get hit by the grapple when the samus is recovering, they could just wait to actually retract their grapple, sitting below the DK with their grapple out.

To the first part, if you can space yourself properly and have good timing, you can get around beat the u tilt. Just wait just out of range until the very end of your up b, and move forward at the last second and dk can grab the ledge from pretty far away, or you could just do what i do. I fall a bit lower the the point that i am too low to get hit until i reach the end of my up b, in which case, if they hit me then, i ledge tech.

On the second part, even if they wait, you have the control of the ledge and they still have to pull up and they can't do any moves on the way up. If they decide to hange there, let them, they have to come up eventually, and thats when you make your move.

 

[KIngGerudo]

hahahah this is funny because i pick DK vs my crewmates if I don't go Ganon. i prefer to tilt through her missles and i do the same for edge guarding. DK does have alot going for him in this matchup and its quite fun. Good stuff at SCC MEXICAN, i hope I can play you sometime soon.

 

[H3LL F0X]

For you noobs who don't know. Donkey Kong is top Tier. Ask someone from Japan and they'll tell you how good he is. If you ask me, He's second behind Fox then Marth comes after. He's amazing trust me.

 

[RaynEX]

^

anyways...

Facing Samus with DK always seemed to feel like an uphill battle for me. I mean...you can't really approach, she can outcamp you, and you only have 1 or 2 applicable combos on her (that lose their value once she passes 50%ish percent).

Maybe HuGs was having a bad day?

 

[MEXICAN]

^

anyways...

Facing Samus with DK always seemed to feel like an uphill battle for me. I mean...you can't really approach, she can outcamp you, and you only have 1 or 2 applicable combos on her (that lose their value once she passes 50%ish percent).

Maybe HuGs was having a bad day?

What are you talking about? Approach is not hard against a samus, its the b air. And if she wants to camp, then it just gives you a free oppurtunity to charge your giant punch. I can't say whether or not Hugs was having a bad day, but he did say he's lost to AOB and PKM Vodka too, so i find it hard to believe that he happened to have a bad day when playing all 3 of us. I never have problems with samus as DK. I 2 stocked hugs that day and 3 stocked Aftermath, so i think its just in DK's favor

 

[RaynEX]

Maybe you're just insanely good :D

Is it as easy to swat missles as you say? I just have to time it properly or something? >_<

*goes and watches Samus vs. Dk vids*

 

[MEXICAN]

Maybe you're just insanely good :D

Is it as easy to swat missles as you say? I just have to time it properly or something? >_<

*goes and watches Samus vs. Dk vids*

I personally love it when samus players just try to spam missiles, because dk has the ability to charge his giant punch in the air. I just jump and charge it. Samus's missiles are easy to avoid and charge your punch at the same time. Then just get your b air on and wait for the perfect time to giant punch. Also, if you find that the samus is wavedashing back and trying a d smash everytime you get close, just use the giant punch instead of the b air. I do it all the time. Their wavedash won't take them out of range of the giant punch, and then you just run away and charge again. I think that a lot of good dk players don't use the giant punch as much as they should. I personally would rather charge my giant punch than try to edgeguard somebody. I mean think about it, you can edgeguard for a chance to get the kill, but on the downside, if you don't get the kill, your back to just fighting them as normal. However, if you charge your giant punch, even if they get back, they have the fear of the giant punch so they play more cautiously, and if/when you hit them with the giant punch, they're pretty much done. My advice, charge the giant punch as much as possible. You could even just camp, charge, use, camp, charge, use, etc...

 

[RaynEX]

It sounds so simple, and yet it seems so hard to do in an actual match. A good Samus wouldn't just sit around and randomly spam missles. They'd actually TRY to hit you...in the process they'd probably not give you any breathing room. I guess thats why its sort of hard for me to picture DK jumping up and down like a Fox charging his punch and not getting hit.

Maybe link a vid as an example? I've yet to see a DK play this match-up as if it were a counter;

yet.

 

[MEXICAN]

sorry, i don't really have any videos except for one really old one against a fox.

 

[RaynEX]

boo!

Record some vs. a Samus...or anyone tbh. You know your stuff. would be sik to see you in action.

 

[pkmvodka]

The thing in this matchup is, DK actually survives more than samus. It may not look like it, but DK can kill her with a grab at the right %, and that's not that high. Unless we talk about dreamland. But pokemon stadium or FD, it's relatively low % kills, unlike a lot of other characters that have trouble against samus.

Also, just because you can spam her face with bairs helps.


I would have liked to play more than friendlies with hugs at OC3, because I thought he was sandbagging a little bit. Because I might have won a set in there, but it was just a friendly, I don't really think I could beat him.

 

[MEXICAN]

The thing in this matchup is, DK actually survives more than samus. It may not look like it, but DK can kill her with a grab at the right %, and that's not that high. Unless we talk about dreamland. But pokemon stadium or FD, it's relatively low % kills, unlike a lot of other characters that have trouble against samus.

Also, just because you can spam her face with bairs helps.


I would have liked to play more than friendlies with hugs at OC3, because I thought he was sandbagging a little bit. Because I might have won a set in there, but it was just a friendly, I don't really think I could beat him.

Although i've never played you personally, nor actually seen any of your vids, i've heard that you're really good, and if your as good as they say you are, you are probably around my skill level or better. And so i assume that if i can beat his samus in tournament, then you probably could too. He might not have been sandbagging as much as you might think. B air just ***** samus, and the giant punch is a problem for samus too, being that she's a pretty slow moving target in the air, and a tall target, and obviously samus doesn't really have anything to combat the giant punch, but then again, who does?

 

[RaynEX]

...So i tried fighting my friend's Samus with my DK. I found it completely hopeless. Its was an overall disheartening expirience.

He double missled me when i tried to Full Hop and charge...If i'd cancel it he'd already have WDed underneath me to nair or w/e. Her moves **** my recovery. No matter how you try to mix it up, all it takes is one charge shot and your gone. Or she can spam missles...

On approach, I can't get close to grab because my friend bomb-spams and di's them away from me. I don't know what moves to edge-guard him with. If he sweetspots the bair does nothing, & her up+b eats my dtilt.

To make matters worse, I can't kill her...at all. Once shes over 80-100 theres nothing you can do, except hope for a lucky Giant-punch. Cargo uthrow doesn't work work to uair at that percentage.

After the 10 or so matches I had against my friend, I'm convinced this isn't as good for DK as you say. Maybe HuGs WAS sandbagging.

Tips!?

 

[brawlpro]

well, mexican if what you say is true(about hugS saying he always looses to dk), then its true, mexican is too goots, he took out otto =o

 

[Gea]

It sounds like your approach needs work and you are hanging back too far. If they bomb spam up close try a fair or a groundpound... Also ftilts.

 

[RaynEX]

Ty. I'll try, though I doubt the ftilts will help in the matter. Why ftilt into bombs? : /

I might smash with the same person tomorrow. I'm going to bring my digi cam and post vids vs. his Samus to show you all the kind of difficulty I have.

Trying and testing Mexican's theory is actually pretty fun.

 

[Gea]

Ty. I'll try, though I doubt the ftilts will help in the matter. Why ftilt into bombs? : /

I might smash with the same person tomorrow. I'm going to bring my digi cam and post vids vs. his Samus to show you all the kind of difficulty I have.

Trying and testing Mexican's theory is actually pretty fun.

If you time the ftilts you can get her. Also you could take the time to jump back and charge then rush back in.

I don't see how bomb spam can get you so well... As long as you are careful, you can abuse the lag on bombs. I'd bet dair would also work, but if he just bombs and goes backwards, groundpound.

Also: You are being predictible in the first place if he knows to bomb away. Dashdance and wait for him to do something, if you are on the ground he has to either jump and MC or just missle, so...

 

[RaynEX]

How about on edge-guards? I'm at a loss vs. Samus in that situation.

 

[pkmvodka]

up b from the ledge.

 

[MEXICAN]

play defensive and use and abuse the b air is pretty much all you need to do. You also gotta remember that you don't really have to worry about shield grabbing against samus, so take advantage of this. Make her really work for the damage she gets on you. She can do whatever moves she wants, the fact is, you can always just shield it, and wait for the oppurtune time to get the b air off. Up works too. Samus is tall.

ps, I barely beat Silent Wolf, that dude's hella good and hella fast.

 

[RaynEX]

I'll try again and post some vids of my progress. Till then, how do you think I should go about killing her?
Its so hard at higher percents. Sometimes even at mid-high as well.

You beat SW? You must be gooood man.

 

[MEXICAN]

I'll try again and post some vids of my progress. Till then, how do you think I should go about killing her?
Its so hard at higher percents. Sometimes even at mid-high as well.

You beat SW? You must be gooood man.

B air, u air, giant punch. All good ways to kill her. One of the places i usually get my kills is when samus is grabbing the edge, most samus players like to do an attack from the ledge. I suggest a giant punch as they're trying to get up. Anything they throw out will be beat. And even if they decided to roll, by the time they're finished with their roll, your giant punch is done and you can just turn around and grab them before they can even move and just b throw them right back off and start charging the punch again.

 

[RaynEX]

very good advice. thanks for all your help.

 

[El HP]

I also think DK has a small advantage mostly because he is faster than samus, her missiles are not very effective on DK and DK has more KOing options than samus.

 

[DARKMIKE]

I hate dk

 

[MEXICAN]

I hate dk

HAHAHA, this coming from the one and only Samus thats beaten my DK before

 

[3Years]

i was close 2 beating u at scc but in friendlies...

yeah dude your dk is amazing...

oh and ill definatly call u wen im in your area mexican...we can get doughnuts again lol

 

[MEXICAN]

i was close 2 beating u at scc but in friendlies...

yeah dude your dk is amazing...

oh and ill definatly call u wen im in your area mexican...we can get doughnuts again lol

Keep up on your samus and you'll be up there soon enough. If i used anyone else, you probably would have beaten me. I have an ok sheik, and a mediocre at best samus, but other than that, i don't really have any other characters, but that just means that i've spent that much more time on my main, and anyone who's ever played my DK will say that its paid off. lol, i still remember the times when i used to get 4 stocked by my crewmates, and they told me that i should just drop dk and use sheik (who was my previous main). haha, but DK was just too fun to use, and i stuck with him, and now i f*ck up my crewmates half the time. hahaha

 

[3Years]

Keep up on your samus and you'll be up there soon enough. If i used anyone else, you probably would have beaten me. I have an ok sheik, and a mediocre at best samus, but other than that, i don't really have any other characters, but that just means that i've spent that much more time on my main, and anyone who's ever played my DK will say that its paid off. lol, i still remember the times when i used to get 4 stocked by my crewmates, and they told me that i should just drop dk and use sheik (who was my previous main). haha, but DK was just too fun to use, and i stuck with him, and now i f*ck up my crewmates half the time. hahaha

yea your samus was good 2 i remember wen we did doubles... hey r u goin 2 the ucla monthly??? i think samus n dk r actually a great team we should do sum doubles friendlies if u go 2 ucla