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Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

ZeroJanitor

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i think sakurai gets unfairly blamed for not liking the dkc series when its moreso a victim of circumstance.

64: pretty minimalist with its representation overall compared to later entries, DK gets about as much content as everyone else.
Melee: developed while Rare's departure from Nintendo was imminent, there was a lot that was still up in the air about who owned what.
Brawl: the DK series isn't particularly relevant at this time, being mostly relegated to spinoff titles at this point.
Sm4sh: developed too close to Tropical Freeze to acknowledge that game in any meaningful way, so representation is mostly based on DKC Returns, which eschewed most of the series's recurring characters besides DK and Diddy.

obviously the dev team can more or less do what they want with first-party series. they could have put dixie in brawl if they really wanted to. but every smash game since melee has been developed while the dk series was in a weird place so idk, it just kinda makes sense to me.

i just don't really get where this idea comes from. the dk series never felt particularly neglected to me. if anything, i felt like smash taught me most of what i know about the series. its just that the only thing is dixie isn't there when it feels like she probably should be.
 

pepiux

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i think sakurai gets unfairly blamed for not liking the dkc series when its moreso a victim of circumstance.

64: pretty minimalist with its representation overall compared to later entries, DK gets about as much content as everyone else.
Melee: developed while Rare's departure from Nintendo was imminent, there was a lot that was still up in the air about who owned what.
Brawl: the DK series isn't particularly relevant at this time, being mostly relegated to spinoff titles at this point.
Sm4sh: developed too close to Tropical Freeze to acknowledge that game in any meaningful way, so representation is mostly based on DKC Returns, which eschewed most of the series's recurring characters besides DK and Diddy.

obviously the dev team can more or less do what they want with first-party series. they could have put dixie in brawl if they really wanted to. but every smash game since melee has been developed while the dk series was in a weird place so idk, it just kinda makes sense to me.

i just don't really get where this idea comes from. the dk series never felt particularly neglected to me. if anything, i felt like smash taught me most of what i know about the series. its just that the only thing is dixie isn't there when it feels like she probably should be.
I agree with you regarding the unfavorable circumstances the DK series has been during all the Smash development cycles.

Smash Ultimate is the exception, though. This is why we’re getting everything now, but funnily, everything we’ve got is from pre-2010 games. All these things could’ve already been there since Smash 4, but perhaps we’re getting them now because Smash 4 was focused on promoting new games, and due to K. Rool’s position in the ballot.

Assuming K. Rool had no ballot presence, would Sakurai acknowledge the DK series? Are we getting some Tropical Freeze (newer) DK content?

This is Dixie’s last chance I’m afraid.
 
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Arymle Roseanne

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I agree with you regarding the unfavorable circumstances the DK series has been during all the Smash development cycles.

Smash Ultimate is the exception, though. This is why we’re getting everything now, but funnily, everything we’ve got is from pre-2010 games. All these things could’ve already been there since Smash 4, but perhaps we’re getting them now because Smash 4 was focused on promoting new games, and due to K. Rool’s position in the ballot.

Assuming K. Rool had no ballot presence, would Sakurai acknowledge the DK series? Are we getting some Tropical Freeze (newer) DK content?

This is Dixie’s last chance I’m afraid.
Yeah Tropical Freeze did very well on the Switch and Dixie was the most popular partner in the game.
 

pepiux

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Yeah Tropical Freeze did very well on the Switch and Dixie was the most popular partner in the game.
I hope we do get it acknowledged. If we don’t, I’ll have to think there exists some bias against the series (or bias in favor of others).
 
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Bowserlick

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If there is DLC, Dixie is in. Dixie might be in anyways.

She will be an Isabelle like character. Takes less resources as a semi-clone.
 

Sabertooth

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Hey guys, I'm Sabertooth and I'm a huge Dixie Kong supporter. This is my first post on Smashboards and I made an account just to join this thread. The morning we got King K Rool was one of the greatest gaming moments of my life, but I don't think we're quite done yet. Dixie is a major character not only in DK but in the entire Nintendo pantheon, having her own game plus major playable roles in two other Country games, not to mention all the spin-off appearances. I honestly think that much like the title of this thread suggests, she is the last truly vital Nintendo character necessary for Smash. We need this monkey chick.

How are you guys feeling about everything?
 

InASnowBoundLand

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Not sure how it's "Dixie's last chance".

I

Dixie 's prominence of roles, the weight of the series, and maybe even the love for the original trilogy K. Rool was brought with him will keep her a contender.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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Not sure how it's "Dixie's last chance".

I

Dixie 's prominence of roles, the weight of the series, and maybe even the love for the original trilogy K. Rool was brought with him will keep her a contender.
Perhaps because most people believe the next game might be a reboot or something like that. This is why many fear for their most wanted this time around.
 

InASnowBoundLand

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I honestly doubt we will get a reboot. It just sounds like something some people fear and a tiny minority wants. The Smash bros formula isn't stale at all for the large majority of fans.

We might get more cuts but that's not the same thing.
 

Sabertooth

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Info regarding the DLC cycle for this game has been nebulous. I'm really hoping for massive amounts, but you never really know with Sakurai. I'd like him to finally get a vacation too since it appears he's been working on Smash for seven years now.
 

pepiux

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Not sure how it's "Dixie's last chance".

I

Dixie 's prominence of roles, the weight of the series, and maybe even the love for the original trilogy K. Rool was brought with him will keep her a contender.
DK does not get as many main-line games as the other big Nintendo series like Mario, Pokémon, Zelda, Kirby or even Fire Emblem. Unless that changes, I don't think Dixie's chances will increase. Maybe if she headlines a new game... But until then, it will be the same thing: the new Smash cycle will repeat and newcomers will be based around newer characters, hot series (ARMS, Xenoblade come to mind), big third parties and top-popular choices again. I do not see Dixie being in the spotlight.

Yes, she will always be a contender, but never a top pick and certainly not a shoe-in like Inkling was. She needs to star or co-star in a successful DK game to be at the same level.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic. Been hoping for her and K. Rool for too long now...
 
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Ultinarok

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Hey guys, I'm Sabertooth and I'm a huge Dixie Kong supporter. This is my first post on Smashboards and I made an account just to join this thread. The morning we got King K Rool was one of the greatest gaming moments of my life, but I don't think we're quite done yet. Dixie is a major character not only in DK but in the entire Nintendo pantheon, having her own game plus major playable roles in two other Country games, not to mention all the spin-off appearances. I honestly think that much like the title of this thread suggests, she is the last truly vital Nintendo character necessary for Smash. We need this monkey chick.

How are you guys feeling about everything?
Welcome! We're a pretty chill group of dudes and dudettes (until someone brings up Echo Fighters) so you should feel right at home here.

I, personally, am a bit concerned about the most recent statement from Sakurai about how they've unleashed too much prematurely and plan on revealing the rest less climactically. This can mean he either wants to save a bulk of new content to show close to release so that the last month isn't a dry spell, or it could mean that they've shown a majority of what's to come already and are regretting not saving it...meaning not much is left to show, hurting Dixie's chances. The second meaning could also very annoyingly prove the box theory right, which would irritate me. So I'm hoping he means it the former way and that a huge onslaught of the remaining content and new fighters is being saved for the last days, meaning we simply have to go through a longer drought but Dixie's odds are unaffected.

I'm also busy packing my things and preparing to move houses and jobs for my wife's new position, so I'm regretting that I can't really enjoy my new copy of Tropical Freeze yet.

But otherwise, I'm pretty dandy.
 
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BirthNote

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Hey just a quick heads up: the Smashboards Community Echo thread will be voting on possible picks for Diddy's Echo in roughly 5 days, so I'd like us to hop in. The goal would be to vote for "no viable option" for Diddy, as it's clear that Dixie's the front-runner in many Smash fans' minds.

Feel free to also voice why Dixie wouldn't fit as a good Echo. Character and ability-wise.
 

pepiux

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Welcome! We're a pretty chill group of dudes and dudettes (until someone brings up Echo Fighters) so you should feel right at home here.

I, personally, am a bit concerned about the most recent statement from Sakurai about how they've unleashed too much prematurely and plan on revealing the rest less climactically. This can mean he either wants to save a bulk of new content to show close to release so that the last month isn't a dry spell, or it could mean that they've shown a majority of what's to come already and are regretting not saving it...meaning not much is left to show, hurting Dixie's chances. The second meaning could also very annoyingly prove the box theory right, which would irritate me. So I'm hoping he means it the former way and that a huge onslaught of the remaining content and new fighters is being saved for the last days, meaning we simply have to go through a longer drought but Dixie's odds are unaffected.
Sakurai's statement, Incineroar/Ken being 99% and a Square Enix rep 50% confirmed have me thinking Dixie missed the boat again :(
 

BravadoMan_13

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So apparently here is one translation of Sakurai's Famitsu article.

"Apologies for my absence last week. The earthquake in eastern Iburi, Hokkaido put a hold on the Nintendo Direct, as we could no longer use the original draft we had prepared."

So there must have been more planned for the direct?
 

Ultinarok

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Hey just a quick heads up: the Smashboards Community Echo thread will be voting on possible picks for Diddy's Echo in roughly 5 days, so I'd like us to hop in. The goal would be to vote for "no viable option" for Diddy, as it's clear that Dixie's the front-runner in many Smash fans' minds.

Feel free to also voice why Dixie wouldn't fit as a good Echo. Character and ability-wise.
Annoyingly the problem is that she IS a viable option for an Echo, simply because she shares Diddy's shape, size and basic proportions and can perform almost all of his moves within reason. It doesn't matter that it betrays her character and squanders her potential. It COULD theoretically happen, even if we know it shouldn't. And everyone there will be quick to point it out.

That said, I also wish to squash misinformation and nip it in the bud when it comes to Dixie's potential, so I still agree it's worth it to show up and say "she can be an Echo technically, but here's why she SHOULDN'T be supported as one." Most people believe she can only be an Echo simply because they don't know how distinctive she actually is. Kinda like the user Turnips and Daisies.
 
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Ultinarok

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Sakurai's statement, Incineroar/Ken being 99% and a Square Enix rep 50% confirmed have me thinking Dixie missed the boat again :(
Remember that Vergeben's word still isn't law, and that while he's never been wrong about the characters he's said were in, he's also missed characters altogether, meaning he has never had the full list of new fighters available to him. Thus, just because he's never said it doesn't mean its not in. Else we wouldn't have K Rool or any Echo Fighters. Or any returning veterans from pre-Smash 4, as Vergeben only stated there would be no cuts, not that Snake, Wolf etc. were in.

So no worries just yet. If he's right, it just means the competition for those "unknown spots" is higher, but not sunk.

Edit: Ah damn, my phone displayed that the post I was replying to came after my last one for some reason, so I didn't mean to double post.

Also Sakurai having to edit their original draft of Direct content is really interesting. It either means Isabelle wasn't the original plan, or was at least not the full plan. If it turns out that he originally planned to show Isaac at the Direct after all and scrapped it due to sensitivity issues, I'm gonna chuckle a bit. Seeing as how that idea was shut down and seen as self-centered when it was being tossed around.
 
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Diddy Kong

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I really want to see remakes of the original trilogy that stays faithful to the original games in gameplay and tone but expands on things nonetheless. In particular, this being the Dixie thread and all, I feel like DKC3 could have a lot of potential being remade.

I think one thing that makes it sometimes compare "unfavorably" to DKC2 is the fact that the developers did not go as hard on the theme on the game as they did in DKC2. Traveling from world to world felt "random". The enemy designs were also weird but not weird enough or consistently weird enough. The "story" doesn't need to be deep or with a lot of cutscenes but I still felt like they could have done a better job at communicating that Dixie was searching for DK and Diddy. Perhaps like items that relate to DK and Diddy at the different bosses. Like Dixie is checking first in Lake Orangutang (world 1), and defeating Belcha ends up with Dixie finding DK's tie. Defeating Arich leaves Diddy's cap, etc. Dixie's checking every corner of the Northern Kremisphere in search of her friends. Maybe the Bears could point her this way or that.

Also, regarding the villains. Imagine seeing a DKC3 remake where Baron K. Roolenstein being a scientist played more of a role in the game. Like in the later levels/worlds, Kremlings become gradually more mutated/mechanic etc, gaining new abilities. I feel like the entire last world of DKC3 should also be remade and play up the mad scientist or horror theme. Like imagine a village level but full of Kremling Zombies. The village could be full of Bears since that's a DKC3 thing I guess. Put K. Rool's castle on a cliff. Play up the Frankenstein and horror motifs. Have K. Rool experimenting on one of the animal buddies that doesn't show up in the game normally like Rambi. Make the Baron K Roolenstein boss more physical. I want to see Dixie grab K. Rool with her hair and slam him on the ground like she does Kiddy.


Speaking of which, I also would really like to see Dixie gain new abilities. Like since she's the star, extend her hair powers so she can do new things and play in a new way that DK and Diddy can't. And Kiddy...I say keep Kiddy. But maybe change him up somehow. Not sure, but I remember reading on this thread someone suggesting an even smaller Kiddy, like an actual baby, that could be interesting.

Just rambling thoughts. Nintendo ninjas you can take whatever idea you want.
Are we gonna talk remakes of the original DKC games? Have we gone this far that this is necessary? I do think now you say that, that it’s a huge possibility. Or have games more inspired around remaking the story in some way?

I could see remakes being more styled around Returns and Tropical Freeze, but with camera angles more like the original games, more zoomed in. 2.5D background effects and level design could also be included. But most of the original levels remade in a way. And have more content, and maybe add additional abilities for the Kongs!

You speak of DKC3’s remake but I’d want the first game first. And it has huge potential. First I want the original buddy system returning but with more added debt, and possible pair up mechanics similar to DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze. DKC1 lacked this, so it would benefit the most from a more deeper system. And since it was so fast paced, design the abilities of DK and Diddy around them.

:ultdk:: New Abilties include a more powerful Ground Slap attack, and its powered up by using? Bananas. That’s right. More about that later. Charged it can freeze stronger enemies for longer. The more bananas you use the stronger it gets and can take out smaller enemies in a row. And smaller enemies can be picked up and thrown as projectiles. This gives DK a slow but steady pace and more momentum. He keeps his roll attack and it retains its original speed. Using ‘roll’ while not moving let’s DK punch. When charged you use up bananas and can do a attack much like DK’s Giant Punch from Smash. Jumping on the head is also still an option and he now gets to take out stronger enemies easier than Diddy like he did in DKC1.

:ultdiddy:: Diddy remains the speedy character but this trait of him gets a little more debt this time. Diddy can power up his cartwheel to a charged cartwheel attack utilizing bananas as power up and can take out hordes of smaller enemies in a row much faster than DK. Regular roll is also a little faster. Charged cartwheel can still take out Klumps, but regular cartwheels now take two times. When not pressing the roll option while not moving, Diddy shoots the Peanut Popgun. With Bananas he can power up the Popgun to a Golden Banana Gun that can take out stronger enemies, but it’s very very costly in Bananas. Peanuts can stun enemies, and when Diddy comes close to stunned weaker enemies he kicks them to take them out. Since it’s a retelling of DKC1, Diddy doesn’t get the Jetpack this time.

Bananas would be used for powering up attacks, and healing damage you take from enemies. Levels could be filled with more enemies and more collectibles and ways to find bananas. Bonus games should be included, and the giant bananas you get for clearing a boss should also increase your banana count by a lot.

Losing a life wouldn’t happen as fast, but you must keep looking for bananas to power yourself through the stages fast and beating enemies. Using powered up attacks decreases your fuel to heal as well after all, but the level design will be so that using a Kongs abilities will either solve things faster or easier overall. It won’t be needed to make jumps for example, but take out 4 to 5 Krusha or Klump in a row?

Since the original DKC bosses where often dismissed as too generic, let’s now make them all mini bosses. Real Gwanty, Queen Zinger, Giant Necky, and Dumb Drum annoys you a lot during a level or so and the boss of the Kremling factories goes to someone else. Speaking of mini bosses, there should be more. And enemies get more aggressive AI to make the game more challenging. Kremlings especially will be acting really hostile, while other enemies will only hurt you if you come in their path, those being more the regular animals as Gnawty, Zinger, aquatic enemies except Chomp. Kremlings will team up more to take you down and maybe the game should have options to control both Kong’s separately at times in Single Player and play similar to the Retro games in Two Player mode.

New bosses I could think of are General Klump and General Krusha who are beefed up versions of their respective Kremling original but seriously beefed up. Not as big and menacing as King K.Rool, but dangerous still. And they get more styled as army generals, being real military in their ways and utmost loyal to K.Rool. Who in the meanwhile wouldn’t give a damn about their deaths either.

K.Rool will be made more menacing and leave more influence on the story. We will encounter him first in the Kremling factories and he leaves us to battle General Klump as he watches. As he lies dying before his King, K.Rool just laughs at the Kongs and leaves the place, giving a overall better sense of intimidation around him and style him even more as a complete mad man.

Maybe let us fight K.Rool a time before the end fight, and him being saved last moment by his last loyal general, General Krusha. And we beat him before he gets away. Maybe doing his very first death fake out there. And as General Krusha gets defeated by the Kongs and we get a sense of false victory, K.Rool stands up and casually escapes with his speed. Not giving a total about nothing but his survival. We must learn through the story how massive the Kremling Army is and how much fear AND motivation by fear he inspires in his Kremling soldiers. Stopping him is the only sure way to ensure victory. This motivates the player more to attack as many Kremlings as you want, and especially King K.Rool. The life of the other Kongs is at stake after all. Same with Animal Buddies, who you befriend for survival reasons and gets their own cutscene and cinematics.

Game doesn’t need to be too serious and still obviously cartoony but a clear theme of survival is always present and plays with the music. David Wise must of course again do the music, but ideally use some deeper tones to set the mood perfectly. You must feel powerful yet constant on the lookout for food (bananas) to survive and fight off your natural enemy. This also would explain why the Banana Hoard is so important, and why the Tikis wanted to use the bananas power for fuel.

Gone abroad with this, but that’s how I sort of envision a remake of the original DKC in a modern setting that’s still mostly a plat former, but does its own thing to really stand apart from anything else and digs deeper into a more animalistic theme based on basic survival, yet remains cartoony enough to be Donkey Kong Country. A new Donkey Kong experience like we’ve been promised for a while. It uses the original cast in a brand new way, deepens their character or puts it in a different light when needed, and being true to the very root of what made the game what it was. There should still be mine carts, Barrel Canons, bonus rooms, and all other elements that made DKC what it is, but styled around as more action paced with combat against enemies, a bit of exploration, and using the bananas for a new goal.
 

Sabertooth

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It'd be sweet if beating the original DKC unlocked the ability to play as Dixie. SNES Lock-on technology!
 

Koopaul

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Remember that Vergeben's word still isn't law, and that while he's never been wrong about the characters he's said were in, he's also missed characters altogether, meaning he has never had the full list of new fighters available to him. Thus, just because he's never said it doesn't mean its not in. Else we wouldn't have K Rool or any Echo Fighters. Or any returning veterans from pre-Smash 4, as Vergeben only stated there would be no cuts, not that Snake, Wolf etc. were in.

So no worries just yet. If he's right, it just means the competition for those "unknown spots" is higher, but not sunk.
But another thing to consider is that Dec 7th is coming up fast and Sakurai said that the character reveals will be slowing down. There's just not a lot of room for many newcomers. I think there might be an echo Verg didn't know about. But beyond that, it seems unlikely.
 
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Ultinarok

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But another thing to consider is that Dec 7th is coming up fast and Sakurai said that the character reveals will be slowing down. There's just not a lot of room for many newcomers. I think there might be an echo Verg didn't know about. But beyond that, it seems unlikely.
I never denied that the reveals could slow down and become less extreme, I actually just brought that up based on my concern with the newest interview. I simply stated that Vergeben listing three more fighters does not mean we are necessarily getting only three more, because he's already missed several. It could happen, but it's not indicative. Therefore, calling it quits is still a little early. The competition could just be steeper than we thought, and we already knew it was damn steep.
 

BirthNote

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Annoyingly the problem is that she IS a viable option for an Echo, simply because she shares Diddy's shape, size and basic proportions and can perform almost all of his moves within reason. It doesn't matter that it betrays her character and squanders her potential. It COULD theoretically happen, even if we know it shouldn't. And everyone there will be quick to point it out.

That said, I also wish to squash misinformation and nip it in the bud when it comes to Dixie's potential, so I still agree it's worth it to show up and say "she can be an Echo technically, but here's why she SHOULDN'T be supported as one." Most people believe she can only be an Echo simply because they don't know how distinctive she actually is. Kinda like the user Turnips and Daisies.
Yea, we're better off making a case for her, respectfully of course, so that it's not an Open and Shut case. We can at least get enough users to vote no viable option so that we get people to notice that Echo isn't best for her.

And about Turnips, I doubt that user is like the ones who genuinely don't know what Dixie can do; he's earning the reputation of a troll who purposely misinforms and downplays Dixie, while insisting that Isabelle is not a clone in the slightest. He refuses to engage my rebuttals and continues like he's unopposed, so his credibility is dropping fast. Still, I'm always happy to knock down his weak arguments whenever he decides to post. This thread's finally got an official troll lol.

The ones who genuinely don't know about Dixie are entirely different from him, and I bet there's more of them willing to listen and discuss than the trolls who wanna plug their own ears.
 
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Sabertooth

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I see that a lot of folks here are vehemently opposed to the notion of Dixie as an Echo Fighter for Diddy. I have to admit that I understand and even agree with your position--she has incredible potential for an original moveset, and I've often brainstormed how a hair-based moveset could work.

However, I believe that it might be best to cut our losses in this case. Donkey Kong as a series has no chance of receiving TWO completely unique newcomers in one game. She could be a semiclone like Isabelle, sure, but even that would necessitate an all-new trailer just for her, which I also don't see happening. I think that if we're getting Dixie in the game at all, it will have to be as an Echo. Donkey Kong is just so rarely a priority to the Smash team that it's the only feasible way I can see her getting in.

Oh, and Funky too. I think having both characters as Echoes would make up for the lack of a unique moveset for Dixie, right? :drshrug:
 

Ultinarok

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I see that a lot of folks here are vehemently opposed to the notion of Dixie as an Echo Fighter for Diddy. I have to admit that I understand and even agree with your position--she has incredible potential for an original moveset, and I've often brainstormed how a hair-based moveset could work.

However, I believe that it might be best to cut our losses in this case. Donkey Kong as a series has no chance of receiving TWO completely unique newcomers in one game. She could be a semiclone like Isabelle, sure, but even that would necessitate an all-new trailer just for her, which I also don't see happening. I think that if we're getting Dixie in the game at all, it will have to be as an Echo. Donkey Kong is just so rarely a priority to the Smash team that it's the only feasible way I can see her getting in.

Oh, and Funky too. I think having both characters as Echoes would make up for the lack of a unique moveset for Dixie, right? :drshrug:
There's precedent for two unique fighters from the same series happening in one game. Mario/Luigi and Pikachu/Jigglypuff in 64, Peach/Bowser and Zelda/Sheik in Melee, Meta Knight/King Dedede and Pokemon Trainer/Lucario in Brawl, and Rosalina/BJ and Robin/Corrin/Roy (kinda) in Smash 4.

In fact, most of the major series in Smash have gotten the two unique characters in one game treatment before. EXCEPT the DK series. And when you factor in series getting two fighters in one game in general, you can add Kid Icarus and Metroid to the list...but still not Donkey Kong. It's not outrageous to see some overdue representation, and unique (at least semi-clone) is far from unreasonable for a series as big as DK.
 
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Sabertooth

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I completely agree. The thing is though, I'm still not convinced that there's not at least a slight bias against DK within the Smash team, or at least just with Sakurai. We got K Rool only because of outrageous fan demand and I'm worried that he'll assume that's all we really need.

That being said, I still respect Sakurai for having to work on characters at all from a game series he doesn't care for. I can only imagine being in charge of Smash and being able to make all the creative decisions--I'd add pretty much every character that I personally want, and avoid adding characters that I do not like (Fire Emblem characters and most third parties, for example). The fact that Sakurai still brought himself to give us K Rool despite his personal preferences is very commendable I have to say.
 

Ultinarok

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I completely agree. The thing is though, I'm still not convinced that there's not at least a slight bias against DK within the Smash team, or at least just with Sakurai. We got K Rool only because of outrageous fan demand and I'm worried that he'll assume that's all we really need.

That being said, I still respect Sakurai for having to work on characters at all from a game series he doesn't care for. I can only imagine being in charge of Smash and being able to make all the creative decisions--I'd add pretty much every character that I personally want, and avoid adding characters that I do not like (Fire Emblem characters and most third parties, for example). The fact that Sakurai still brought himself to give us K Rool despite his personal preferences is very commendable I have to say.
When answering people, you can quote them directly to reduce confusion by hitting "reply" in the bottom right corner of their post before typing your response. Just a useful tip since you're new to the threads. That way everyone (including me) knows that you're responding to me.

And yeah, there's a chance that the precedent means nothing and it's not Dixie's time, but the precedent to be hopeful is there.
 

CannonStreak

Supersonic Warrior
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Guys, not exactly Dixie related, but it is Donkey Kong related. I just had the craziest idea for a Donkey Kong character rep. I already posted this on a K. Rool topic, but I thought it would not hurt to post this here as well. Here is how it would work.

I call this character, or these characters, Animal Buddies. There are six animal buddies total, but only three can be on the field of battle. You can choose which three get to be on the field of battle on the character select screen, but two of the six animal buddies each come in a type that determines how they affect the movement and attacks. You can only choose one of each two per type. When three Animal Buddies are chosen and are on the field, the work similar to Rick, Kine and Coo from Kirby Star Allies, as the Animal Buddy changes to another for each function and move. For ground movements and attacks, you have Rambi and Squitter, the air movements would be Squawks and Winky from Donkey Kong Country 1, who can flap wings five times or jump high respectively, and midair attacks are Enguarde and Expresso from Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3. In the water, you control Enguarde, who can even go under the water. As a mid air attacker, Enguarde falls to the ground after making a stabbing motion and flops on the ground until the player moves the character, which turns into either Rambi or Expresso. For their Final Smash, they use Animal Stampede, which all six Animal Buddies go on screen and gang up on/run over the opponent/opponents on the field of battle.

Well, that is my crazy idea. What do you all think?
 
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BirthNote

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I see that a lot of folks here are vehemently opposed to the notion of Dixie as an Echo Fighter for Diddy. I have to admit that I understand and even agree with your position--she has incredible potential for an original moveset, and I've often brainstormed how a hair-based moveset could work.

However, I believe that it might be best to cut our losses in this case. Donkey Kong as a series has no chance of receiving TWO completely unique newcomers in one game. She could be a semiclone like Isabelle, sure, but even that would necessitate an all-new trailer just for her, which I also don't see happening. I think that if we're getting Dixie in the game at all, it will have to be as an Echo. Donkey Kong is just so rarely a priority to the Smash team that it's the only feasible way I can see her getting in.

Oh, and Funky too. I think having both characters as Echoes would make up for the lack of a unique moveset for Dixie, right? :drshrug:
Welcome to the thread! I'll add you later on, but in the meantime I wanna say that yes, I am opposed to Echo Dixie, and it's fine that you're not. Personally I'm not of the mindset that any Dixie is better than no Dixie; her entire speculation lifespan from pre Brawl to this day has been plagued by the belief that she can't do anything Diddy can't. It took different forms, but the root was the same: she looks like Diddy so she must be his female copy.

Sakurai's made the idea of 1:1 clones appealing by branding them as Echoes, which is fine in some cases, but for Dixie it's brought us back to the root of her greatest hurdle. All the positive momentum of her individuality hit a speed bump when Echoes debuted and hit a complete stop thanks to Chrom. A lot of users--myself included--set out to show others that she was more than Diddy's girlfriend, like her trophies constantly stated. We wanted to stir the pot of creativity and get ideas flowing, but once it became cool to embrace Echoes, that desire for her to be more jumped out the window.

Brawl hit the right balance when it came to fighters based off someone else. Sure Toon Link took the least effort, but Lucas and Wolf revitalized the idea, and Isabelle showed us all that fighters like that aren't extinct. I think there's nothing wrong with wanting that for Dixie, as it's a great way to be true to her character and still compromise on development deadlines. Dixie has a more notable role than the Echoes, considering she's in Ultimate's era of focus and has a major role in her game. Dark Samus's best shot was in Smash 4 (Wii/DS era), Daisy's never made a main series appearance since her debut, Chrom was outshined by both Robin and Lucina, and Richter helps flesh out Simon's moveset and vice versa. Dixie's the star of Tropical Freeze, being the #1 Kong that players both old and new flock to, and it wasn't different in the past DKCs when she was playable.

Echoes are nice, but they're mainly for characters who wouldn't be in otherwise. Dixie's got the relevance, solid popularity and notable history on her side, which luckily keeps her from interfering with K. Rool, who has the ballot (as well as notable history) going for him. Tropical Freeze is likely her ticket, and she would've definitely shown up on the team's radar, thanks to that game and the research they needed to do for K. Rool. I doubt they went "we'll throw Dixie in as an Echo if we have time" and instead gave them both consideration. If they put the Unique resources into him and the Semi-Clone resources into her, that would be fine by me. She has too much standing out to simply be an Echo with a different UpB.
 

InASnowBoundLand

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It's just not reasonable to expect Dixie to be made into a clone given her unique properties.

Unfortunately, that could mean she misses out on the base game if there really are just a few characters left. Her differences with Diddy are more significant than the differences between, for example, Daisy and Peach.

But if she is implemented, and she could still be, even in DLC, she will be implemented with her hair powers playing a notable role in her moveset.
 

Ultinarok

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It's just not reasonable to expect Dixie to be made into a clone given her unique properties.

Unfortunately, that could mean she misses out on the base game if there really are just a few characters left. Her differences with Diddy are more significant than the differences between, for example, Daisy and Peach.

But if she is implemented, and she could still be, even in DLC, she will be implemented with her hair powers playing a notable role in her moveset.
I don't want to believe she would ever get in as an Echo when there's so much about her that stands out. And I would totally back this up with vehement denial of her ever being an Echo except... Dark Samus having no unique moves, only animations, and the situation with Ganondorf both prove that Sakurai can get a bit complacent at times with character representation when he feels a shortcut can be taken. Isabelle, Wolf etc. prove that this is an exception, not a rule, but it nevertheless fails to completely suppress the fear of Echo status. I'm ultimately optimistic but still a bit cautious about getting my hopes up.
 
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Gobliiin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
154
I don't understand why people believe DK couldn't get two new characters in 1 game it's like people are making it out to be some unknown small game.

The more I think about what Sakurai said the more I believe his words don't mean what he's saying. Surely they would have planned reveals it's not like this is the first game they've made. You would have thought after all the work they put in they would realise they peaked too early.

I still really believe Dixie is in though. I know its because of the ballot but if K. Rool can make it Dixie can after tropical freeze.
 

cybersai

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
940
If this was any other Smash I'd say we'd get her easily but there doesn't seem to be a lot of newcomers left.

When even the Mario franchise doesn't appear to be getting a newcomer at all and just got Daisy as an echo, something is up. Otherwise I'm sure Captain Toad would have been considered since his game came out in 2014 at the right time. (For the record if Geno comes, I see him as separate from a Mario rep in general)

Then again Metroid jumped up 2 reps, so I'd love DK to do the same. Both Metroid and DK got screwed over in Smash for years, and no surprise they're both western-centric series than Japanese ones especially as of late.
 

Aeon Lupin

Survival of the fittest
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This is Dixie’s last chance I’m afraid.
Where does this sentiment come from? Why would this be Dixie's last chance? The DK series is going no where. Neither is Smash. I just don't understand why some think Ultimate is the final frontier or something. Even if it's Sakurai's last Smash, someone else will take the reigns. That simple.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I'm honestly gonna be very surprised if Dixie doesn't make the cut. She is to the Donkey Kong roster as Bandana Dee (Especially since he's seen as the Player 4 after Kirby, King Dedede and Meta Knight) is to the Kirby roster. The final missing piece.
 
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Koopaul

Smash Champion
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Oct 29, 2013
Messages
2,336
Then again Metroid jumped up 2 reps, so I'd love DK to do the same. Both Metroid and DK got screwed over in Smash for years, and no surprise they're both western-centric series than Japanese ones especially as of late.
The difference is that the DK series in popular in Japan, unlike Metroid.

I think DK got screwed simple because the series is off Sakurai's radar. Not because he hates it but because he probably doesn't even think about it much. He's only human, and that means he's probably only played so many games and as a result only considers so many characters to get in Smash. Wario Land is worse off than DK.
Where does this sentiment come from? Why would this be Dixie's last chance? The DK series is going no where. Neither is Smash. I just don't understand why some think Ultimate is the final frontier or something. Even if it's Sakurai's last Smash, someone else will take the reigns. That simple.
The next Smash is likely going to overhaul the roster. There's no way they can continue to add to this one. So who knows what the next Smash might be like. They might start over from square one.
 
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SethTheMage

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At this point, I'm looking at DLC or bust. I'm prepping for the scenario that Verg is right and that there are maybe 4-5 characters left at max, given Sakurai's recent comments on the pacing of reveals. I think it's reasonable that we have 2-3 unique characters left at most since every character who has a number has gotten a reveal trailer, and I'm not expecting any reveals in October; I also seriously doubt that Sakurai would reveal 4 unique newcomers in November based on this comment. If all of Verg's info is right, 2-3 uniques would translate into a SE rep, Incineroar, and maybe Steve. As for echoes, we have Ken basically confirmed by the picture leak (I've seen more than enough evidence to believe it), and I don't think we will see more than one echo after him. Shadow already has evidence of being an echo due to his Assist Trophy not being seen yet, so I think he's more likely to land an echo spot than Dixie.

All of this hinges on assumptions and believing Vergeben, but I've frequently taken the side of pessimism/cautious optimism after I got suckered into believing that ESRB wasn't it for Smash 4's base roster and that Dixie still had a chance. It almost completely killed my hype for the game. I want to at least enjoy the hard work that the Smash team have put into this game and focus on what I think they've done right.

DLC might still work out for Dixie though, if they want to support this game well after release.
 
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Veggi

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Are we gonna talk remakes of the original DKC games? Have we gone this far that this is necessary? I do think now you say that, that it’s a huge possibility. Or have games more inspired around remaking the story in some way?

I could see remakes being more styled around Returns and Tropical Freeze, but with camera angles more like the original games, more zoomed in. 2.5D background effects and level design could also be included. But most of the original levels remade in a way. And have more content, and maybe add additional abilities for the Kongs!

You speak of DKC3’s remake but I’d want the first game first. And it has huge potential. First I want the original buddy system returning but with more added debt, and possible pair up mechanics similar to DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze. DKC1 lacked this, so it would benefit the most from a more deeper system. And since it was so fast paced, design the abilities of DK and Diddy around them.

:ultdk:: New Abilties include a more powerful Ground Slap attack, and its powered up by using? Bananas. That’s right. More about that later. Charged it can freeze stronger enemies for longer. The more bananas you use the stronger it gets and can take out smaller enemies in a row. And smaller enemies can be picked up and thrown as projectiles. This gives DK a slow but steady pace and more momentum. He keeps his roll attack and it retains its original speed. Using ‘roll’ while not moving let’s DK punch. When charged you use up bananas and can do a attack much like DK’s Giant Punch from Smash. Jumping on the head is also still an option and he now gets to take out stronger enemies easier than Diddy like he did in DKC1.

:ultdiddy:: Diddy remains the speedy character but this trait of him gets a little more debt this time. Diddy can power up his cartwheel to a charged cartwheel attack utilizing bananas as power up and can take out hordes of smaller enemies in a row much faster than DK. Regular roll is also a little faster. Charged cartwheel can still take out Klumps, but regular cartwheels now take two times. When not pressing the roll option while not moving, Diddy shoots the Peanut Popgun. With Bananas he can power up the Popgun to a Golden Banana Gun that can take out stronger enemies, but it’s very very costly in Bananas. Peanuts can stun enemies, and when Diddy comes close to stunned weaker enemies he kicks them to take them out. Since it’s a retelling of DKC1, Diddy doesn’t get the Jetpack this time.

Bananas would be used for powering up attacks, and healing damage you take from enemies. Levels could be filled with more enemies and more collectibles and ways to find bananas. Bonus games should be included, and the giant bananas you get for clearing a boss should also increase your banana count by a lot.

Losing a life wouldn’t happen as fast, but you must keep looking for bananas to power yourself through the stages fast and beating enemies. Using powered up attacks decreases your fuel to heal as well after all, but the level design will be so that using a Kongs abilities will either solve things faster or easier overall. It won’t be needed to make jumps for example, but take out 4 to 5 Krusha or Klump in a row?

Since the original DKC bosses where often dismissed as too generic, let’s now make them all mini bosses. Real Gwanty, Queen Zinger, Giant Necky, and Dumb Drum annoys you a lot during a level or so and the boss of the Kremling factories goes to someone else. Speaking of mini bosses, there should be more. And enemies get more aggressive AI to make the game more challenging. Kremlings especially will be acting really hostile, while other enemies will only hurt you if you come in their path, those being more the regular animals as Gnawty, Zinger, aquatic enemies except Chomp. Kremlings will team up more to take you down and maybe the game should have options to control both Kong’s separately at times in Single Player and play similar to the Retro games in Two Player mode.

New bosses I could think of are General Klump and General Krusha who are beefed up versions of their respective Kremling original but seriously beefed up. Not as big and menacing as King K.Rool, but dangerous still. And they get more styled as army generals, being real military in their ways and utmost loyal to K.Rool. Who in the meanwhile wouldn’t give a damn about their deaths either.

K.Rool will be made more menacing and leave more influence on the story. We will encounter him first in the Kremling factories and he leaves us to battle General Klump as he watches. As he lies dying before his King, K.Rool just laughs at the Kongs and leaves the place, giving a overall better sense of intimidation around him and style him even more as a complete mad man.

Maybe let us fight K.Rool a time before the end fight, and him being saved last moment by his last loyal general, General Krusha. And we beat him before he gets away. Maybe doing his very first death fake out there. And as General Krusha gets defeated by the Kongs and we get a sense of false victory, K.Rool stands up and casually escapes with his speed. Not giving a total about nothing but his survival. We must learn through the story how massive the Kremling Army is and how much fear AND motivation by fear he inspires in his Kremling soldiers. Stopping him is the only sure way to ensure victory. This motivates the player more to attack as many Kremlings as you want, and especially King K.Rool. The life of the other Kongs is at stake after all. Same with Animal Buddies, who you befriend for survival reasons and gets their own cutscene and cinematics.

Game doesn’t need to be too serious and still obviously cartoony but a clear theme of survival is always present and plays with the music. David Wise must of course again do the music, but ideally use some deeper tones to set the mood perfectly. You must feel powerful yet constant on the lookout for food (bananas) to survive and fight off your natural enemy. This also would explain why the Banana Hoard is so important, and why the Tikis wanted to use the bananas power for fuel.

Gone abroad with this, but that’s how I sort of envision a remake of the original DKC in a modern setting that’s still mostly a plat former, but does its own thing to really stand apart from anything else and digs deeper into a more animalistic theme based on basic survival, yet remains cartoony enough to be Donkey Kong Country. A new Donkey Kong experience like we’ve been promised for a while. It uses the original cast in a brand new way, deepens their character or puts it in a different light when needed, and being true to the very root of what made the game what it was. There should still be mine carts, Barrel Canons, bonus rooms, and all other elements that made DKC what it is, but styled around as more action paced with combat against enemies, a bit of exploration, and using the bananas for a new goal.
As much as I love Tropical Freeze, after playing Kirby Star Allies it made me wish the Kongs had more abilities. I agree that it would be cool if DK could pick up and throw enemies as well as having a hand slap attack that was more useful than the other Kongs. I don't think the banana power is a bad idea. It would be cool to see how it works. Although we have the Kong Pow meter that already exists that could be used with your idea.

I actually had the idea of having Funky be a normal character in the next game and having the other kongs be given extra abilities to match him including being able to use the Kong Pow meter in different ways. Also, DK wouldn't be mandatory.

DK:
-Has more range on his hand slap attack and it actually kills enemies
-Can use pull handles more quickly
-Using hand slap in the air makes him clap and create a shockwave that stuns enemies.
-Able to throw most small enemies and your partner (if they are on your back)
-Has the same amount of hearts as Funky
-Has a coconut gun.
-Can drain Kong Pow meter to create a flower path using Fredrik's war horn.

Diddy:
-Peanuts shoot forward rather than bouncing.
-Faster
-Can speed up cartwheel after hitting an enemy with it like in the original DKC trilogy.
-Can spring into the air using tail
-Can throw banana peels that cause enemies to slip and become stunned
-Can drain Kong Pow meter to control Diddy's jet pack much like in Smash 4 (but without charging)

Dixie:
-Can use her hair as a fan to push enemies
-Can use her hair both like in Tropical Freeze and in DKC2 (which I understand overlaps with Diddy's ability)
-Can grab items from greater distances
-Is able to stab forward with her hair
-Can drain the Kong Pow meter to increase the amount of times she can use her Tropical Freeze hair lift ability and increase the power of her fan ability.

Cranky:
-Can use his cane to attack on land instead of just in the water.
-Idk he already bounces like shovel knight maybe he can have plague knight abilities as well, considering his role in 64.
-Maybe can heal or buff teammates with potions?

Funky:
-Add rocket launcher.
-I think he should have some stuff using the Kong Pow meter but I really can't come up with any ideas.


Every character: Can use fully charged Kong Pow like normal but receiving both bonuses. Instead of clapping they use their respective instruments seen at the end of Tropical Freeze. Not sure what DK would receive.

It would be cool if every character could have an animal buddy they could call using their instrument.

This probably all sounds lame but whatevs.
 

Turnips and Daisies.

Banned via Warnings
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Messages
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It's just not reasonable to expect Dixie to be made into a clone given her unique properties.

Unfortunately, that could mean she misses out on the base game if there really are just a few characters left. Her differences with Diddy are more significant than the differences between, for example, Daisy and Peach.

But if she is implemented, and she could still be, even in DLC, she will be implemented with her hair powers playing a notable role in her moveset.
That't not really true.

Whilst Daisy and Peach are similar in a lot of ways, and have an identical frame, they have different, contrasting personalites. Peach is more reserved and technical. Daisy is boisterous and bright, and less proper in manner than Peach is. Even though she's an echo Sakurai promised that she has changed up performance in her moves and stuff because of this.

Diddy and Dixie are similar in a lot of ways too, they are both small active primates with the same body type and have the same abilites for the most poart. However, the key difference with Diddy and Dixie is her hair. She uses the hair to propel herself forwards and attack sometimes. Diddy's more grounded in comparison. Maybe in Smash this can translate to Dixie not having an explosive rocketbarrel but a descending flight with a damaging boost in the air initially. Like the Parasol. Every other special move can be similar or the same and it would be true to Dixie.

It's only if you drastically change stuff like weight, speed, various parts of the moveset, knockback power etc. that you don't become an echo fighter anymore.
 

CaptainMapleSyrup

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
39
That't not really true.

Whilst Daisy and Peach are similar in a lot of ways, and have an identical frame, they have different, contrasting personalites. Peach is more reserved and technical. Daisy is boisterous and bright, and less proper in manner than Peach is. Even though she's an echo Sakurai promised that she has changed up performance in her moves and stuff because of this.

However, the key difference with Diddy and Dixie is her hair. She uses the hair to propel herself forwards and attack sometimes. Diddy's more grounded in comparison.
The Chrom reveal showed us that echo fighters can pick up moves from other people in their series. Maybe give Dixie DK’s Spinning Kong and Hand Slap using her hair and call it a day? In SSB4 there was a custom move Chopper Kong which gave Spinning Kong a lot of vertical recovery with no damage so this could be a viable substitute. So we’d have...

Neutral B - Gumball Popgun
Side B - Monkey Flip
Up B - Chopper Kong (could also use a horizontal hair copter attack as her dash attack)
Down B -
Option 1: Diddy’s Banana Peel (but using an old piece of bubble gum to make a sticky trap or scatter some gumballs to be slipped on?)
Option 2: DK’s Hand Slap (but using her hair to slam the ground - she does this to mirror DK in Tropical Freeze! Or this could be her Aerial Down Attack for a ground spike)
Final Smash -
Option 1 - DK’s old Konga Beat move (but using her guitar from Donkey Kong Country 2). We don’t know what Diddy’s new final smash is yet but he used a guitar in Donkey Kong 64 so they could share this?
Option 2 - Diddy’s Rocketbarrel Barrage (but she flies around using her hair and shoots gumballs).

EDIT: BirthNote BirthNote Sorry, forgot to ask can I be put on the support list please? Also I’d be okay with the above going on moveset suggestions for a hybrid echo using a combination of Kong moves if it helps.
 
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