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Disappointed with Link

Rizen

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I already posted my thoughts here.

Ironically the thread says BotW Link is the true Link but Young Link kept all the old moves. I've stuck by Link through all the smash games because I like how he plays. Now YL is the only Link that plays that way. If it wasn't for him I'd be really POed at these changes but we can think of BotLink as a new semi-clone character. Even as such he doesn't look very good.

I beat a PRed Bayo with Link in ssb4 before the weeklies ended by strategic and frequent use of bombs to make a wall and interrupt ladder combos. I wonder how the new Link will fare in that MU. Link is such a punching bag when being comboed. Timed bombs were the keystone of his character not just for combos and zoning but to ease his otherwise terrible disadvantage state.
 

Brother AJ

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Link mains, just like the character, are all about adaptability and problem solving. We will surely not falter here.
 

BrazenBunnies

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I already posted my thoughts here.

Ironically the thread says BotW Link is the true Link but Young Link kept all the old moves. I've stuck by Link through all the smash games because I like how he plays. Now YL is the only Link that plays that way. If it wasn't for him I'd be really POed at these changes but we can think of BotLink as a new semi-clone character. Even as such he doesn't look very good.

I beat a PRed Bayo with Link in ssb4 before the weeklies ended by strategic and frequent use of bombs to make a wall and interrupt ladder combos. I wonder how the new Link will fare in that MU. Link is such a punching bag when being comboed. Timed bombs were the keystone of his character not just for combos and zoning but to ease his otherwise terrible disadvantage state.
I agree with this. Link does seem like a clone of Young Link in ssbu
 

Fane

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I am only disappointed about two things:

Up Special + Final Smash.

I was hoping his Up Special would involve the Paraglider, and I was hoping his Final Smash would involve the Divine Beasts. The Ancient Bow + Arrow is even less impressive than the Triforce Slash imo.

Other than that, I'm pretty excited about the Remote Bombs and Double Arrows.
 

Tri Knight

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That video Buzzsaw posted shows why remote bombs aren't a direct nerf. As M2K said, it's a game changer for sure and will work well with how I'm picturing Link will need to play. And Link looks MUCH faster in that video. Idk if its just been a while since I've played but the man can move now. Jump lag is pretty much gone and that was one of his bigger weaknesses.
 
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TheBuzzSaw

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E3 people were saying that jump frames were cut across the board. Apparently, everyone jumps with much less latency.
 

BrazenBunnies

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I love that, too. I think in that same video m2k was talking about how he didn't like L cancelling in general. You can really see how they're pushing aggressive play, with almost no lag with aerials, yet almost a full second of lag from directional airdodges. I think that the lag is a bit exaggerated on the airdodging, but we'll see how nintendo changes it.
 

Rizen

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That video Buzzsaw posted shows why remote bombs aren't a direct nerf. .
Don't get me wrong; remote bombs (RB) are not bad for long range nukes. The problem is the trade off for regular bombs' utility isn't worth it. Link can bomb>Fair at 80-100%+ for kills. RBs would need to be a strong kill move to make up for losing those combos.

Can Villager pocket RBs like ROB's gyros and prevent Link from using them?
 
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BrazenBunnies

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Don't get me wrong; remote bombs (RB) are not bad for long range nukes. The problem is the trade off for regular bombs' utility isn't worth it. Link can bomb>Fair at 80-100%+ for kills. RBs would need to be a strong kill move to make up for losing those combos.

Can Villager pocket RBs like ROB's gyros and prevent Link from using them?
Well as of now even if an opponent is simply holding a remote bomb, link can't do anything.

Hopefully they make it so if there's ever a remote bomb that belongs to the Link (in the case of dittos), he can blow it up. Hogging bombs is not nice.
 

Tri Knight

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Don't get me wrong; remote bombs (RB) are not bad for long range nukes. The problem is the trade off for regular bombs' utility isn't worth it. Link can bomb>Fair at 80-100%+ for kills. RBs would need to be a strong kill move to make up for losing those combos.

Can Villager pocket RBs like ROB's gyros and prevent Link from using them?
I'm sure Villager can. I think the real problem is not Remote Bombs itself. It is that Link gets hurt by his own bombs, meaning he can't be up in someone's face in order to follow up with an attack. If it wasn't for that, I think we would still be able to go for bomb set ups. The Link in the video was doing a great job at blowing the bombs up in the opponents face.

Short Hop boomerang maybe? As of now that's his only real zoning tool while the other two are just long range nukes. But again like I've said, it looks like he's being pushed out of that zoner role.
 

BrazenBunnies

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I'm sure Villager can. I think the real problem is not Remote Bombs itself. It is that Link gets hurt by his own bombs, meaning he can't be up in someone's face in order to follow up with an attack. If it wasn't for that, I think we would still be able to go for bomb set ups. The Link in the video was doing a great job at blowing the bombs up in the opponents face.

Short Hop boomerang maybe? As of now that's his only real zoning tool while the other two are just long range nukes. But again like I've said, it looks like he's being pushed out of that zoner role.
Can Snake be hurt by C4?
 

Ffamran

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E3 people were saying that jump frames were cut across the board. Apparently, everyone jumps with much less latency.
As of the E3 demo build, everyone's jump is frame 3. You can check with any of the videos that have 60 FPS quality settings and counting the frames with < and > on YouTube. Instead of lowering the gap between the floor and ceiling like frame 4 to frame 5 or 6 jumps, it seems like they want to go with universal jump frames. KoF XIII and KoF XIV did this as well and probably some other fighting games like maybe SFIV. I know for sure that SFV does not have this, but the jump gap is smaller, Zangief and probably Abigail and the other heavies have a 5 frame jump and everyone else has a 3? frame jump. That's significantly lower than in any of the Smash games where you had 5 frame gaps in Melee and Brawl, 3 and 8 (Bowser) in Melee and 4 and 9 (Snake) in Brawl, and 4 in 64 and Smash 4, 3 and 7 (Link) in 64 and 4 and 8 (Bowser) in Smash 4.

For a platform fighting game, a game that is very flexible in how you can move, especially vertically, having faster jumps and aerial mobility as far as what it seems like in the demo build seems appropriate. That said, there are consequences to this and Ganondorf and Ike come to mind. Their aerials have gotten lowered landing lag and Ike's aerials except for Bair and I think Dair are a frame or two faster according to the Ike boards along with the animation changes that would change in how they hit and how Ike can avoid putting his hurtboxes out.

Can Snake be hurt by C4?
I'm pretty sure he can. It's an explosive and not one like Samus's Bombs where she automatically does a bomb jump with her Morph Ball.

Edit: Incorrect, jumps are frame 3. The first airborne frame is not considered.
 
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BrazenBunnies

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As of the E3 demo build, everyone's jump is frame 4. You can check with any of the videos that have 60 FPS quality settings and counting the frames with < and > on YouTube. Instead of lowering the gap between the floor and ceiling like frame 4 to frame 5 or 6 jumps, it seems like they want to go with universal jump frames. KoF XIII and KoF XIV did this as well and probably some other fighting games like maybe SFIV. I know for sure that SFV does not have this, but the jump gap is smaller, Zangief and probably Abigail and the other heavies have a 5 frame jump and everyone else has a 4 frame jump. That's significantly lower than in any of the Smash games where you had 5 frame gaps in Melee and Brawl, 3 and 8 (Bowser) in Melee and 4 and 9 (Snake) in Brawl, and 4 in 64 and Smash 4, 3 and 7 (Link) in 64 and 4 and 8 (Bowser) in Smash 4.

For a platform fighting game, a game that is very flexible in how you can move, especially vertically, having faster jumps and aerial mobility as far as what it seems like in the demo build seems appropriate. That said, there are consequences to this and Ganondorf and Ike come to mind. Their aerials have gotten lowered landing lag and Ike's aerials except for Bair and I think Dair are a frame or two faster according to the Ike boards along with the animation changes that would change in how they hit and how Ike can avoid putting his hurtboxes out.


I'm pretty sure he can. It's an explosive and not one like Samus's Bombs where she automatically does a bomb jump with her Morph Ball.
I wonder how this will change Link's playstyle in terms of option coverage. In Izaw's Art of Link videos, he explains that characters with good air mobility and escape moves such as ZSS (Flip Kick), or Sheik (Bouncing Fish) do well against Link because they just have more options in general. Will the remote bombs and grabbable arrows be enough compensation for everyone's increased movement options?
 

Ffamran

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I wonder how this will change Link's playstyle in terms of option coverage. In Izaw's Art of Link videos, he explains that characters with good air mobility and escape moves such as ZSS (Flip Kick), or Sheik (Bouncing Fish) do well against Link because they just have more options in general. Will the remote bombs and grabbable arrows be enough compensation for everyone's increased movement options?
Izaw's Art of Link wouldn't be entirely applicable to this game since it was based on Smash 4 Link. You can carry some things over like how Link's Nair and Bair work or what you could and should do with Up Smash and Down Smash, but Ultimate Link and Ultimate seem like they will be different enough compared to Smash 4 Link and Smash 4 mainly in the difference in mechanics between those games.

3 frame jumps means everyone's aerial options are faster and more flexible. For Link who seems faster on the ground and in the air, his Nair and Bair are going to be more powerful assuming they still have similar landing lag and auto-cancel windows and they already had low landing lag in Smash 4. The fastest possible frame Bair would be out if it has the same startup would be frame 9 with a 3 frame jump. In Smash 4, it would have been out at frame 13 because of Link's 7 frame jump.

I don't play Link or know enough about him, so take this as you will. As for bombs and arrows, remote bombs are probably going to be used in a different way than his old bombs. How that affects and is applied to his game plan is left to be developed. I could guess they would be similar to how Snake uses C4, but if C4 moved and couldn't stick onto people. Or perhaps ROB's Gyro. So, more of a trap move than a throw move. Arrows I don't know. I don't know how practical it would be to shoot an arrow and try to grab it and if it can be grabbed, I wonder if it can be grabbed while it's in mid-flight. I doubt it, but if it that's the case, then arrows were slightly nerfed since people could just grab it, possibly hop and air dodge to grab it, and chuck it back at him.

What will really matter for Link, other than a universal jump frame helping him out, is his frame data. How much more damage and knockback is he doing and how that allows him to combo, follow-up, or string moves together or how well moves can kill; how much recovery does he have for his moves, were they reduced or increased on his moves; and how fast he is relative to other characters in Ultimate. For instance, if Ultimate Link is faster compared to the previous Links, but is overall about the same speed he was in those games compared to everyone else in Ultimate, then it doesn't really change much for him. He'd still be slow, but feel faster in Ultimate rather than he feels faster and is faster in Ultimate.

I thought the universal jump squat was frame 3?
I don't know where that number came from unless people are not considering the fourth frame, the frame everyone is airborne when they jump or hop as of the E3 demo, to be part of the startup. That's the only thing I can think of and it doesn't make sense since it would be like not counting the first active frame of say, Fox's jab 1 which is frame 2 in every game. Fox's jab 1 is not frame 1 because it has to go through 2 frames of animation before the first active hitbox appears on the second frame. Likewise, jumps as of the E3 demo are not frame 3 because they have to go through 4 frames of animation before everyone is airborne on the fourth frame. If anything, you can't start acting until the fourth frame so saying jumps are frame 3 is incorrect.

With video quality, something recorded or watched at 30 FPS, you could just double the number and get somewhat accurate startup frames. I'm not sure how it handles odd numbers.

I'm just going to use Fox since I remember where he jumped in his introductory video. Again, use < and > to move frames and make sure the quality setting is at something with 60 FPS. From 0:13 to 0:15. The starting frame is right after Fox has his Blaster in his holster where Fox suddenly shifts from that animation to him crouching down. From there, Fox is airborne on the fourth frame.

Edit: Oh hey, I just noticed his jab 3 is different in animation. It's an upwards swipe instead of a thrust like in the previous games. I'm watching this video of a match from Rage 2018 for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thkqn2-iWZU.

Edit 2: Edit Harder: Disregard the statement about jumps being frame 4. They are not as the first airborne frame is not considered as part of a jump's startup according to the previous Smash games, KoF XIII and XIV, and probably Street Fighter and any fighting game. I thought it did, but it's not as I checked Smash 4 and KoF XIV's jump frame according to the frame data sheets. That is to say Falco's airborne on frame 7, but his jumpsquat is 6 frames and Terry is airborne on frame 5, but KoF XIII and XIV's pre-jump or jump is 4 frames.
 
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Ryionac

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I'm honestly excited about the changes to link. The bombs I can see having enormous setplay potential, since they don't explode when they get hit (? Needs confirmation). I feel like they would still retain some of their combo potential depending on how fast the recovery is on detonation. The fact that they explode on command will turn them into a real threat to the opponent when they're just laying around, which opens up more opportunities to control space.

To add to Link's new zoning capabilities, he now has just a plain boomerang, which is also pretty big since now it poses a larger threat on the return (combo potential, interruptions). He loses his tether which is unfortunate, but gains a much faster standard grab which will allow him to contest in CQC, especially against a shielding opponent where up b OoS will do him no favours. Idk what his throws do exactly, but if s4 is anything to go by his d throw will allow for a few decent follow-ups.

About his recovery, I think he'll be perfectly okay since you can probably z drop a bomb and instantly detonate, so he shouldn't have much of an issue if that is the case (unless you accidentally set yourself up for a spike confirm that would be pretty FeelsBadMan).

Overall he'll become more formidable entering the next installment. I'll definitely invest some time into figuring out what I can do with his new bag of tricks.

EDIT: I just saw a clip of Salem vs Nairo (https://youtu.be/rKUkVnsL7O0), and it looks like the remote bombs have noticeably larger kb growth compared to his old ones. Itll be hard to get a combo out of one thrown :/

BUT, all this means is that they must be used differently, since they are definitely not the same tool. I believe link will be much more setup heavy this time around; i can forsee a nair hitting the opponent towards a carefully placed bomb to have it send them back to link for a finisher, something like that. The bombs can also be used to suffocate the opponent into making the wrong move due to their persisting threat. This ofc change before release but this sort of setup and space control theme he has will remain I think.
 
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Tri Knight

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Izaw's Art of Link wouldn't be entirely applicable to this game since it was based on Smash 4 Link. You can carry some things over like how Link's Nair and Bair work or what you could and should do with Up Smash and Down Smash, but Ultimate Link and Ultimate seem like they will be different enough compared to Smash 4 Link and Smash 4 mainly in the difference in mechanics between those games.

Frame 4 jumps means everyone's aerial options are faster and more flexible. For Link who seems faster on the ground and in the air, his Nair and Bair are going to be more powerful assuming they still have similar landing lag and auto-cancel windows and they already had low landing lag in Smash 4. The fastest possible frame Bair would be out if it has the same startup would be frame 10 with a 4 frame jump. In Smash 4, it would have been out at frame 13 because of Link's 7 frame jump.

I don't play Link or know enough about him, so take this as you will. As for bombs and arrows, remote bombs are probably going to be used in a different way than his old bombs. How that affects and is applied to his game plan is left to be developed. I could guess they would be similar to how Snake uses C4, but if C4 moved and couldn't stick onto people. Or perhaps ROB's Gyro. So, more of a trap move than a throw move. Arrows I don't know. I don't know how practical it would be to shoot an arrow and try to grab it and if it can be grabbed, I wonder if it can be grabbed while it's in mid-flight. I doubt it, but if it that's the case, then arrows were slightly nerfed since people could just grab it, possibly hop and air dodge to grab it, and chuck it back at him.

What will really matter for Link, other than a universal jump frame helping him out, is his frame data. How much more damage and knockback is he doing and how that allows him to combo, follow-up, or string moves together or how well moves can kill; how much recovery does he have for his moves, were they reduced or increased on his moves; and how fast he is relative to other characters in Ultimate. For instance, if Ultimate Link is faster compared to the previous Links, but is overall about the same speed he was in those games compared to everyone else in Ultimate, then it doesn't really change much for him. He'd still be slow, but feel faster in Ultimate rather than he feels faster and is faster in Ultimate.


I don't know where that number came from unless people are not considering the fourth frame, the frame everyone is airborne when they jump or hop as of the E3 demo, to be part of the startup. That's the only thing I can think of and it doesn't make sense since it would be like not counting the first active frame of say, Fox's jab 1 which is frame 2 in every game. Fox's jab 1 is not frame 1 because it has to go through 2 frames of animation before the first active hitbox appears on the second frame. Likewise, jumps as of the E3 demo are not frame 3 because they have to go through 4 frames of animation before everyone is airborne on the fourth frame. If anything, you can't start acting until the fourth frame so saying jumps are frame 3 is incorrect.

With video quality, something recorded or watched at 30 FPS, you could just double the number and get somewhat accurate startup frames. I'm not sure how it handles odd numbers.

I'm just going to use Fox since I remember where he jumped in his introductory video. Again, use < and > to move frames and make sure the quality setting is at something with 60 FPS. From 0:13 to 0:15. The starting frame is right after Fox has his Blaster in his holster where Fox suddenly shifts from that animation to him crouching down. From there, Fox is airborne on the fourth frame.

Edit: Oh hey, I just noticed his jab 3 is different in animation. It's an upwards swipe instead of a thrust like in the previous games. I'm watching this video of a match from Rage 2018 for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thkqn2-iWZU.

Edit 2: Edit Harder: Disregard the statement about jumps being frame 4. They are not as the first airborne frame is not considered as part of a jump's startup according to the previous Smash games, KoF XIII and XIV, and probably Street Fighter and any fighting game. I thought it did, but it's not as I checked Smash 4 and KoF XIV's jump frame according to the frame data sheets. That is to say Falco's airborne on frame 7, but his jumpsquat is 6 frames and Terry is airborne on frame 5, but KoF XIII and XIV's pre-jump or jump is 4 frames.
Yeah I've been trying to make this known myself. I like the look of Jab3. Looks like it covers more angles.

And I swear, his jab1 starts faster.
 
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BrazenBunnies

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Izaw's Art of Link wouldn't be entirely applicable to this game since it was based on Smash 4 Link. You can carry some things over like how Link's Nair and Bair work or what you could and should do with Up Smash and Down Smash, but Ultimate Link and Ultimate seem like they will be different enough compared to Smash 4 Link and Smash 4 mainly in the difference in mechanics between those games.

Frame 4 jumps means everyone's aerial options are faster and more flexible. For Link who seems faster on the ground and in the air, his Nair and Bair are going to be more powerful assuming they still have similar landing lag and auto-cancel windows and they already had low landing lag in Smash 4. The fastest possible frame Bair would be out if it has the same startup would be frame 10 with a 4 frame jump. In Smash 4, it would have been out at frame 13 because of Link's 7 frame jump.

I don't play Link or know enough about him, so take this as you will. As for bombs and arrows, remote bombs are probably going to be used in a different way than his old bombs. How that affects and is applied to his game plan is left to be developed. I could guess they would be similar to how Snake uses C4, but if C4 moved and couldn't stick onto people. Or perhaps ROB's Gyro. So, more of a trap move than a throw move. Arrows I don't know. I don't know how practical it would be to shoot an arrow and try to grab it and if it can be grabbed, I wonder if it can be grabbed while it's in mid-flight. I doubt it, but if it that's the case, then arrows were slightly nerfed since people could just grab it, possibly hop and air dodge to grab it, and chuck it back at him.

What will really matter for Link, other than a universal jump frame helping him out, is his frame data. How much more damage and knockback is he doing and how that allows him to combo, follow-up, or string moves together or how well moves can kill; how much recovery does he have for his moves, were they reduced or increased on his moves; and how fast he is relative to other characters in Ultimate. For instance, if Ultimate Link is faster compared to the previous Links, but is overall about the same speed he was in those games compared to everyone else in Ultimate, then it doesn't really change much for him. He'd still be slow, but feel faster in Ultimate rather than he feels faster and is faster in Ultimate.


I don't know where that number came from unless people are not considering the fourth frame, the frame everyone is airborne when they jump or hop as of the E3 demo, to be part of the startup. That's the only thing I can think of and it doesn't make sense since it would be like not counting the first active frame of say, Fox's jab 1 which is frame 2 in every game. Fox's jab 1 is not frame 1 because it has to go through 2 frames of animation before the first active hitbox appears on the second frame. Likewise, jumps as of the E3 demo are not frame 3 because they have to go through 4 frames of animation before everyone is airborne on the fourth frame. If anything, you can't start acting until the fourth frame so saying jumps are frame 3 is incorrect.

With video quality, something recorded or watched at 30 FPS, you could just double the number and get somewhat accurate startup frames. I'm not sure how it handles odd numbers.

I'm just going to use Fox since I remember where he jumped in his introductory video. Again, use < and > to move frames and make sure the quality setting is at something with 60 FPS. From 0:13 to 0:15. The starting frame is right after Fox has his Blaster in his holster where Fox suddenly shifts from that animation to him crouching down. From there, Fox is airborne on the fourth frame.

Edit: Oh hey, I just noticed his jab 3 is different in animation. It's an upwards swipe instead of a thrust like in the previous games. I'm watching this video of a match from Rage 2018 for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thkqn2-iWZU.
What I meant to say is that if Link is an option coverage character in ssbu, I wonder how the changes to everyone's aerial mobility and to Link will affect his play style.
 

CostLow

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So do we know if Link is better or worse than his SSB4 incarnation?
The short answer is no. We don't know that.

Link had a pretty substantial overhaul and the meta hasn't been formed yet so there's no definitive answer yet. However, you can decide if he SEEMS better or worse for you at this point. The character specific changes of the bombs, clawshot, and arrows can be good or bad depending on how the game wide changes interact with his specific changes. For instance, with the clawshot gone Link's grab game should be much better; however, his recovery is weakened and the zair spacing is now gone. If the other changes in the game make Link better at neutral or close quarter combat he could be an improved fighter, but if the other changes end up leaving him unable to keep up and he finds himself needing to camp, I think he'll be much worse for that now.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I’m not a big fan of his skins. Tunic of the Wild looks awkward in my opinion and just doesn’t hit his model strangely.
 

Tri Knight

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I’m not a big fan of his skins. Tunic of the Wild looks awkward in my opinion and just doesn’t hit his model strangely.
I dedinitely agree with the Wild Tunic. I didnt even like it in Breath of the Wild.

You're not into the Champion Tunic at all? The design is cool. I'm curious how it looks in the recolors.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I dedinitely agree with the Wild Tunic. I didnt even like it in Breath of the Wild.

You're not into the Champion Tunic at all? The design is cool. I'm curious how it looks in the recolors.
Here’s the palette swaps:



Oh I like the Champions tunic. That’s pretty awesome personally. If I was Sakurai and had time and resources to making Link look good, I would of forgone the traditional palette swap idea and just added armor skins. For example:

  1. Champion Tunic
  2. Tunic of Time
  3. Ancient Set
  4. Barbarian Set
  5. Dark Set
  6. Shirtless Link with trousers
  7. Soldiers Set
  8. Gerudo Set
 
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Tri Knight

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Here’s the palette swaps:



Oh I like the Champions tunic. That’s pretty awesome personally. If I was Sakurai and had time and resources to making Link look good, I would of forgone the traditional palette swap idea and just added armor skins. For example:

  1. Champion Tunic
  2. Tunic of Time
  3. Ancient Set
  4. Barbarian Set
  5. Dark Set
  6. Shirtless Link with trousers
  7. Soldiers Set
  8. Gerudo Set
Seriously! That would have been awesome. Definitely would have been a great example of the customization in BotW.

The red Champion Tunic looks really good, actually. Makes me wish we could dye the tunic in BotW.
 

BrazenBunnies

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I dedinitely agree with the Wild Tunic. I didnt even like it in Breath of the Wild.

You're not into the Champion Tunic at all? The design is cool. I'm curious how it looks in the recolors.
I think the tunic of the wild doesn't have green sleeves which makes it look off. Otherwise, I wish there was a purple champion's tunic option. That would be nice. But I guess I'll have to settle with dark Link and everyone will call me emo or something.
 

Altais

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I was slightly disappointed to learn that the Remote Bomb can't be detonated if an enemy picks it up--but ultimately decided it was fair. If it detonated even if an enemy was holding it, it would make the Remote Bomb an effective wall that would be a pain to get past. By picking up the Remote Bomb, the enemy effectively removes that wall.

Other than that, I am more than satisfied with how BOTW Link turned out. He's everything I wanted him to be, plus more. Sure, he can't tether recover anymore, but he can drop-detonate his Remote Bombs to recover (similar to Snake). Furthermore, the removal of his tether does make his grab safer. Last but not least, he can pick up his arrows after firing them.

I actually mained Link for a while in Smash 4. He was one of the few characters whom felt natural to me. Ultimately, though, I dropped him, because I didn't think I could manage both his and Robin's learning curve at the same time. But I'm confident I'll be able to manage them both now.
 

CostLow

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Altais Altais - I agree that he seems pretty cool still after all his changes. One thing that I'm thinking might actually work in our favor is that the opponent loses options once they pick up our bombs. Just like when a player grabs one of Pac-Man's fruit. The difference here is that Pac-Man is nearly crippled without his fruit while Link still has plenty of good options even without the bombs being in play.
 
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Am I the only one underwhelmed with what they decided to do with link? They could've made him a whole new awesome character but they decided to make small changes that basically end up nerfing him. I like how you get blade beams from his sword at 0%, but in reality how long does anyone stay at 0? Also, his tether grab is gone so he loses some of his range, along with his zair. His bombs now have to be detonated manually and that might be a buff or a nerf but it seems like there's a lot of lag on the trigger. They could've easily done the same thing they did to the inklings where his different smash attacks use different weapons or such. He could've had the champions abilities. Even his intro animation should've been the sheikah slate warp animation from BOTW. All of these changes probably would've been cooler to see. Hopefully the fact that none of the champions are present in the slightest means that they'll be DLC? What do you guys think?
Well remember that this is just the demo of the game. We've still got 6months. Sakurai can still put work into link. Just stay positive :)
 

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
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Mar 24, 2013
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I’m not a big fan of his skins. Tunic of the Wild looks awkward in my opinion and just doesn’t hit his model strangely.
I'm glad that Fierce Deity Link is in the game, but he doesn't look good with short sleeves. I'm not that much of a fan of his alts. I hope we something more in the final product like an OoT or TP skin.

I am only disappointed about two things:

Up Special + Final Smash.

I was hoping his Up Special would involve the Paraglider, and I was hoping his Final Smash would involve the Divine Beasts. The Ancient Bow + Arrow is even less impressive than the Triforce Slash imo.
I disagree about changing Up Special. Link needs to have his Spin Attack. Always.
 
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MagmarFire

Smash Journeyman
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My biggest concern is the lack of a Clawshot. I myself didn't use it too much for grabbing, but using it as a Zair was massively beneficial to my playstyle. Without that, zoning and approaches will be much harder if they don't compensate. Link's never been that good at CQC in my experience, so either they improve that or Link's gonna be so campy.

Sadly, I'm not very optimistic. But we'll have to see, I suppose.
 

Tri Knight

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
783
My biggest concern is the lack of a Clawshot. I myself didn't use it too much for grabbing, but using it as a Zair was massively beneficial to my playstyle. Without that, zoning and approaches will be much harder if they don't compensate. Link's never been that good at CQC in my experience, so either they improve that or Link's gonna be so campy.

Sadly, I'm not very optimistic. But we'll have to see, I suppose.
But now that clawshot is gone, he has a usable grab. We have a fast OoS option that also works against enemy shields with what I'm assuming to be minimal risk.
 

BrazenBunnies

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
28
But now that clawshot is gone, he has a usable grab. We have a fast OoS option that also works against enemy shields with what I'm assuming to be minimal risk.
Spin attack oos was pretty good, especially if the player is advancing with aerials. The loss of zair and a ranged grab is pretty big imo.
 

Tri Knight

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783
Spin attack oos was pretty good, especially if the player is advancing with aerials. The loss of zair and a ranged grab is pretty big imo.
Yeah, big in the sense that it now gives us better ground game and options out of shield. Spin Attack was frame 8 and has ridiculous end lag that leaves you super vulnerable. The new grab starts at Frame 5 - our fastest known move we've ever had, I believe.
 

BrazenBunnies

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
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Yeah, big in the sense that it now gives us better ground game and options out of shield. Spin Attack was frame 8 and has ridiculous end lag that leaves you super vulnerable. The new grab starts at Frame 5 - our fastest known move we've ever had, I believe.
I stand corrected, but I have seen quite a few times when players like T and IzAw would spin attack oos when their opponent was at high percent, it would launch them far enough for link not to suffer from too much end lag. I do believe the new spin attack is a bit faster as well in ssbu.
 

Tri Knight

Smash Ace
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Aug 10, 2015
Messages
783
I stand corrected, but I have seen quite a few times when players like T and IzAw would spin attack oos when their opponent was at high percent, it would launch them far enough for link not to suffer from too much end lag. I do believe the new spin attack is a bit faster as well in ssbu.
For sure. It's definitely an option but that would have been bad if that was our best option. The grab is a godsend in my opinion. Our recovery may suffer a bit, but bomb jumping seems a lot easier now with remote bombs so we'll likely make much more use of that now.
 

Sean Wheeler

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
1,032
I wish that they kept Twilight Princess Link as the default instead of redesigning him with Breath of the Wild. Well at least his Twilight Princess costume is an alternate costume for him.
 

BrazenBunnies

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
28
I wish that they kept Twilight Princess Link as the default instead of redesigning him with Breath of the Wild. Well at least his Twilight Princess costume is an alternate costume for him.
It's not really his twilight princess costume. It's the tunic of the wild, which doesn't look nearly as good.
 
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