Completed Disable HUD [Achilles]

[Aerros11]

COMPLETED [ACHILLES]:

Disable Player HUD (1.02) [Achilles]
042F6508 4E800020

Disable Timer HUD (1.02) [Achilles]
042F446C 4E800020

Disable Magnifier Bubbles (1.02) [Achilles]
042FBDC0 4800059C

Disable Match Start/End Textures (1.02) [Achilles]
- Ready, Go, Game, etc.
042F6FAC 60000000
_______________

Spoiler: Current Remove HUD Code

Remove HUD (Percentages, Stock Icons, Timer)

Has the same effect as it does in the debug menu.
[Achilles]
1.02

004D6D58 00000001

- Combined with the already existing platform colors mod which keeps track of stock count, I really don't see the need anymore to clutter the screen with a stock count.

- I also have the skip results screen code so sometimes it's difficult to tell who won a round or not.

Spoiler: Skips Results Screen and KO Stars = Games Won Deluxe (1.02, Achilles)

Skips Results Screen and KO Stars = Games Won [Deluxe](1.02) [Achilles]

• Skips Results Screen if:
  • Extra characters are in the match (Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Giga, Wireframes, Popo, Sandbag).
  • More than 4 characters are in the match.
  • Debug Menu flag is active (see notes). This is not included in the Gecko code posted below, but can be enabled by uncommenting lines in the notes.
• Opponent of the player who quit to the "No Contest" screen is awarded a KO star, as long as the opponent is in first place or tied for first place.

http://smashboards.com/threads/skip-results-screen-new-code.423874/

- The missing info adds some depth to the game but that's just me. Not only that, but it allows the art to be better appreciated:

Spoiler: Missing Info Adds Depth, Explanation

It's a huge crutch.

Players should do their combos dynamically based on how far they see their opponent sent flying, rather than reading percents to know what combos to use. Recovering via R/L from a ledge would also be punished more this way without a HUD letting players know when they've reached 100%. These effects are all welcomed with the added bonus of allowing the game's art to be appreciated without the clutter of a timer and stock count....(especially for doubles).

The magnifying glass also gives attackers too much information...the automatic camera homing is enough to give the attacker, but more so the defender, a general idea of where the defender is off-screen.

The announcer also voices the last 5 seconds of a round.

(Also, if it were up to me, I'd eliminate Randall so I'm also against the timing of him).

HUD DISABLED

HUD ENABLED

______

Sorry for the spam~

 

[Acryte]

Viewing your percentages is pretty huge. The only way I could see that is if we all had smart controllers with an LCD screen that displayed our percentages, but we don't.

 

[Aerros11]

Viewing your percentages is pretty huge. The only way I could see that is if we all had smart controllers with an LCD screen that displayed our percentages, but we don't.

It's a huge crutch. Players should do their combos dynamically based on how far they see their opponent sent flying, rather than reading percents to know what combos to use. Recovering via R/L from a ledge would also be punished more this way without a HUD letting players know when they've reached 100%. These effects are all welcomed with the added bonus of allowing the game's art to be appreciated without the clutter of a timer and stock count....(especially for doubles).

The magnifying glass also gives attackers too much information...the automatic camera homing is enough to give the defender and attacker a general idea of where the defender is off-screen.

The announcer also voices the last 5 seconds of a round.

(Also, if it were up to me, I'd eliminate Randall so I'm also against the timing of him).
_____

Acryte , I've been meaning to ask you, what is this shineban in your profile pic o__o'|l?

 

[Doq]

The question I'll just leave here is:

Would you remove the health bars from Street Fighter?

 

[Aerros11]

The question I'll just leave here is:

Would you remove the health bars from Street Fighter?

TL;DR: It depends if there is a damage indicator for when a player is near death.

I don't play street fighter enough to know whether their presence actually affects a round similar or less in magnitude to removing the HUD in melee. I will say that removing the entire HUD in street fighter won't allow players to know when their specials are ready nor do I know whether or not there is an announcer which voices when a round is about to end (that's bad).

From my experience though in street fighter, disabling the health bar would affect gameplay because there is no indicator that they are near death (in order for them to know when to play safer). In melee, characters fly farther and farther allowing players to know when their time is near.

In other games (like dark souls or final fantasy...idk) wherein characters die based on a depleting health bar AND they have the ability to heal, disabling hud is scary as hell; it wastes potions too and brings in unnecessary deaths!

As a last example, in call of duty and battlefield with autoheal off, disabling the health bars specifically doesn't affect gameplay because there is also a "bloody screen" indicator that allows players to know when they are near death. Other players, however, never know when their opponent is near death or not.

 

[Aerros11]

Achilles1515 , now that there's a way to keep track of winners again, can you help me convert your disable HUD code to something compatible with DRGN's mod?

Sry for all the spam, thanks btw

EDIT: I tried:

004D6D58 00000001
Into

804D6D58 00000001

 

[Achilles1515]

Disable Player HUD (1.02) [Achilles]
042F6508 4E800020

Disable Timer HUD (1.02) [Achilles]
042F446C 4E800020

Aerros11

 

[Aerros11]

Disable Player HUD (1.02) [Achilles]
042F6508 4E800020

Disable Timer HUD (1.02) [Achilles]
042F446C 4E800020

Aerros11

@O@!! Hoooo man!

These are the final pieces I "need" before anything experimental.

How I feel:

Spoiler

I appreciate you separating the code into timer and stock, and I don't mean to nag -- I would like everything gone as in the "READY, GO!" (which players tend to use to sneak behind), "GAME", and the off-screen magnifying glasses for defender stealth purposes just like in the debug mode Remove HUD feature.

I'm really sorry for asking for so much but it's so so close

Thank you for everything you've done already!

 

[Myougi]

Viewing your percentages is pretty huge. The only way I could see that is if we all had smart controllers with an LCD screen that displayed our percentages, but we don't.

If only the GameCube had something like the Sega Dreamcast's VMUs.... (Well, it kinda did with the GBA link cable, so there's that I guess.)
For real though, not being able to see you and your opponent's percentage is a global game changer. I hate to be blunt, but this is kind of a stupid idea.

In Melee, people have to factor in percents tons of things, not just combos or kills. Being cognizant of the percentages between you and your opponent is extremely necessary for things people don't always realize. Take approaches for example - analyze any match above mid-level and you'll see some options just don't well as approach options until later percents when they can't be crouched cancelled (Ex: Fox's Nair at low percents as an opener can easily be CC'd and then retaliated against immediately by characters like Peach, Samus, and ICs with their D-Smash). Taking away Smash's core mechanic that's vital to how people play the neutral game is ridiculous. Please don't.

 

[Acryte]

It's a huge crutch. Players should do their combos dynamically based on how far they see their opponent sent flying, rather than reading percents to know what combos to use. Recovering via R/L from a ledge would also be punished more this way without a HUD letting players know when they've reached 100%. These effects are all welcomed with the added bonus of allowing the game's art to be appreciated without the clutter of a timer and stock count....(especially for doubles).

The magnifying glass also gives attackers too much information...the automatic camera homing is enough to give the defender and attacker a general idea of where the defender is off-screen.

The announcer also voices the last 5 seconds of a round.

(Also, if it were up to me, I'd eliminate Randall so I'm also against the timing of him).
_____

Acryte , I've been meaning to ask you, what is this shineban in your profile pic o__o'|l?

Shineban was a joke. I made an avatar for it for ****s and giggles.

Spoiler

I agree with Myougi on this one, but it's not the first disagreement I've had philosophically with the direction of some of these changes, but it's no biggie for me, I just won't partake.

 

[Aerros11]

Shineban was a joke. I made an avatar for it for ****s and giggles.

Spoiler

I agree with Myougi on this one, but it's not the first disagreement I've had philosophically with the direction of some of these changes, but it's no biggie for me, I just won't partake.

I think you should try playing a whole session without one to see what I mean (with platform colors of course)

And that's pretty funny about the shinebans XD
That bones -- shutting people down with knowledge.

If only the GameCube had something like the Sega Dreamcast's VMUs.... (Well, it kinda did with the GBA link cable, so there's that I guess.)
For real though, not being able to see you and your opponent's percentage is a global game changer. I hate to be blunt, but this is kind of a stupid idea.

In Melee, people have to factor in percents tons of things, not just combos or kills. Being cognizant of the percentages between you and your opponent is extremely necessary for things people don't always realize. Take approaches for example - analyze any match above mid-level and you'll see some options just don't work well as approach options until later percents when they can't be crouched cancelled (Ex: Fox's Nair at low percents as an opener can easily be CC'd and then retaliated against immediately by characters like Peach, Samus, and ICs with their D-Smash). Taking away Smash's core mechanic that's vital to how people play the neutral game is ridiculous. Please don't.

Myougi
I prefer people to be straightforward so no offense taken.

PERCENTAGES: COMBOS/KILLS
I already said combos can be done by reacting faster to enemy momentum..so that's compensated for by sight.

I know I used to use percentages to tell if I could down throw to bair with Ganondorf. But instead of memorizing availability based on percents per character, I realized it's just better to eye it.

PERCENTAGES: CROUCH CANCELLING
But players already know if they're at a generally low percent if they spawned recently/haven't gotten hurt too much. Increased knockback distances are also a tell tale sign of increased percentages. So players can end up saying things like:

"I've taken a few hits, I don't think I should risk crouch cancelling this attack anymore"
or
"I'm flying pretty far so I shouldn't try recovering with R/L only from a ledge"

OFF-SCREEN MAGNIFIER
You didn't address this one; it's pretty important and benefits from a missing HUD.
An off-stage character has better knowledge of where they are than the attacker and can sometimes make it to the stage/survive solely because the attacker got his/her estimation wrong on the defender's off-stage position.

"READY, GO"
It's difficult to counter a preemptive strike hiding behind this banner.

STOCK ICONS
They get in the way, especially for doubles. Thanks to Achilles' platform color mod, stock tallies can now be eliminated.

I too encourage you to play a whole session without the HUD to see what I mean.

 

[Achilles1515]

I think you should try playing a whole session without one to see what I mean (with platform colors of course)

And that's pretty funny about the shinebans XD
That bones -- shutting people down with knowledge.



Myougi
I prefer people to be straightforward so no offense taken.

PERCENTAGES: COMBOS/KILLS
I already said combos can be done by reacting faster to enemy momentum..so that's compensated for by sight.

I know I used to use percentages to tell if I could down throw to bair with Ganondorf. But instead of memorizing availability based on percents per character, I realized it's just better to eye it.

PERCENTAGES: CROUCH CANCELLING
But players already know if they're at a generally low percent if they spawned recently/haven't gotten hurt too much. Increased knockback distances are also a tell tale sign of increased percentages. So players can end up saying things like:

"I've taken a few hits, I don't think I should risk crouch cancelling this attack anymore"
or
"I'm flying pretty far so I shouldn't try recovering with R/L only from a ledge"

OFF-SCREEN MAGNIFIER
You didn't address this one; it's pretty important and benefits from a missing HUD.
An off-stage character has better knowledge of where they are than the attacker and can sometimes make it to the stage/survive solely because the attacker got his/her estimation wrong on the defender's off-stage position.

"READY, GO"
It's difficult to counter a preemptive strike hiding behind this banner.

STOCK ICONS
They get in the way, especially for doubles. Thanks to Achilles' platform color mod, stock tallies can now be eliminated.

I too encourage you to play a whole session without the HUD to see what I mean.

I'd be down to try it, but at least in vanilla once to get a feel for the change before venturing into totally new game mechanics. It sounds quite interesting.

Disable Magnifier Bubbles (1.02) [Achilles]
042FBDC0 4800059C

 

[Aerros11]

???

I'd be down to try it, but at least in vanilla once to get a feel for the change before venturing into totally new game mechanics. It sounds quite interesting.

Disable Magnifier Bubbles (1.02) [Achilles]
042FBDC0 4800059C

Yes, another piece of the puzzle!

And thanks for being open to the idea (for vanilla) even if you absolutely hate it in the end XD!

 

[Achilles1515]

Disable Match Start/End Textures (1.02) [Achilles]
- Ready, Go, Game, etc.
042F6FAC 60000000

 

[Aerros11]

Disable Match Start/End Textures (1.02) [Achilles]
- Ready, Go, Game, etc.
042F6FAC 60000000

I'm pretty sure it's normal for my mouth to water at the sight of these codes @O@!!

Thanks for everything~

 

[Acryte]

STOCK ICONS
They get in the way, especially for doubles. Thanks to Achilles' platform color mod, stock tallies can now be eliminated.

I too encourage you to play a whole session without the HUD to see what I mean.

Imagining doubles with no percentages would be the worst. You might be fighting one guy, while your partner concentrated on the other, and now you switch targets and have no idea what your attack is going to do.

 

[Aerros11]

I really doubt I'm the only one that pays attention to spawns and enemy flight distances when playing vanilla. When playing doubles, your eyes are supposed to be mainly looking at your enemies...not on your character.

Just try playing these things yourself with these tips in mind and you'll do fine. These worries are misplaced.

 

[Achilles1515]

I'm really doubt I'm the only one that pays attention to spawns and enemy flight distances when playing vanilla. When playing doubles, your eyes are supposed to be mainly looking at your enemies...not on your character.

Just try playing these things yourself with these tips in mind and you'll do fine. These worries are misplaced.

Idk if misplaced is the right term. If you are Fox playing against Peach, a lot of people want to know that precise moment when Peach is now able to be killed with a Usmash. Because if the opportunity arises at this point for you to land a Usmash, then it would be the absolute best move choice. Without percentages, you might second guess whether or not she is at kill percent, and consequently might opt for a subpar attack choice to use instead. This would be especially harder to do without on-screen percents if you were mainly tacking on damage with lasers and shines that give no indication as to what Peach's current percentage is.

 

[Aerros11]

Idk if misplaced is the right term. If you are Fox playing against Peach, a lot of people want to know that precise moment when Peach is now able to be killed with a Usmash. Because if the opportunity arises at this point for you to land a Usmash, then it would be the absolute best move choice. Without percentages, you might second guess whether or not she is at kill percent, and consequently might opt for a subpar attack choice to use instead. This would be especially harder to do without on-screen percents if you were mainly tacking on damage with lasers and shines that give no indication as to what Peach's current percentage is.

That's a similar example to the down-throw to bair kill from Ganondorf. Every character has a kill move at a certain enemy percent so this argument could be stretched out for a while. The point being, if the kill move is the best move to do (and it doesn't kill) then it was still the best move to do at the time. Stated differently, no one's going to skip out on an opening with their most effective attack for the scenario just because they don't think it'll result in a kill.

I'd like to see if these concerns exist if and after you guys actually experience a no HUD vanilla. Would be cool

 

[Achilles1515]

Stated differently, no one's going to skip out on an opening with their most effective attack for the scenario just because they don't think it'll result in a kill.

Good players do this all the time. If I get a waveshine on Peach, I'm not going to upsmash her immediately if she would survive when I could get a second waveshine or drillshine into Usmash and kill her.

 

[Aerros11]

Good players do this all the time. If I get a waveshine on Peach, I'm not going to upsmash her immediately if she would survive when I could get a second waveshine or drillshine into Usmash and kill her.

Combos, huh.
For that scenario, why not follow up with a drillshine/waveshine again just in case if unsure? Not like the enemy will be immediately safe after the first SDI/DI against a shine in vanilla. I understand that the additional input may introduce human error (missing the shine), but it's an added risk that I welcome to polish players. Either way it might be nice to eventually have a visual indicator for a character at ≥100% but it's totally not necessary.

In the end, I acknowledge that these mods are a handicap in some scenarios while a benefit in others but I really believe that these "handicaps" will only result in a better player when returning to vanilla.

To be blunt, if this turns out to be me pulling air outta my rump, let me know but this is my experience so far XD

 

[Myougi]

The point being, if the kill move is the best move to do (and it doesn't kill) then it was still the best move to do at the time.

I can't disagree more with this statement.

Achilles gave a great example with waveshining, but allow me to share an example from a tournament set:

Watch Armada's Fox here in this match. Armada is a student of the game, and knows how to use his hitboxes to their maximum potential, and how percentages factor into every move. Watch Armada's combo five minutes in. Armada get's a chain grab to up-smash punish, and forces Leffen into a tech chase situation. Armada turns to react to tech in place, but reacts to the tech attack and punished with a JC grab. At this point, Armada has a couple of options:

1. Throw Leffen offstage and convert the situation to an edgeguarding situation, despite Leffen being at a low percent
2. Throw Leffen onto the platform, and convert the situation to another tech chase situation with a potentially better vantage point and build more percent
3. Throw Leffen behind him and try to keep him close for a combo
4. Throw Leffen down and maybe convert the situation to a tech chase situation
5. Let Leffen mash out and try to go for a grab release shine

Armada chooses to throw Leffen onto the platform. Leffen tech rolls to the right, then Armada reacts and covers it with an Uair. Leffen is at 57 percent and DIs left. Armada reacts again and hits him with soft Nair, building his percent to 69%. If Armada had Bair'd when he Soft Naired, Leffen could again jump out and up-b or just side-b back to the ledge before Armada could cover it. Leffen was ready for the bair, and chooses to side-b, and Armada knows this. Since late Nair gave him less recovery frames (he landed with an AC) he read the side-b and up-tiled it (old school options, yay). This is a great exmple of what Armada is amazing at, forcing players into situations they really don't want to be in.

Leffen is now at 78%. Not kill percent whatsoever for a bair. In order to tack on some more damage and keep the combo going rather than risk another option select, Armada opts for another soft Nair to lock Leffen into hitstun, reads the DI, and responds with a F-Smash. Leffen now at 101% flies into the blast-zone despite decent DI.

If Armada had thrown Leffen offstage early, Leffen probably wouldn't have died - He's only at 39% before the throw, and sending him slightly offstage to go for a gimp isn't a great idea (Leffen could simply jump out of the throw at the percent he was at). Armada throwing Leffen back into the center of the stage could be a terrible idea as well, since it gives Leffen stage control, which could risk him losing his punish. Additionally, throwing Leffen down is a risky move, since it could potentially allow Leffen to tech into the center and gain stage back.

The point that I'm getting at with this is Armada could have Bair'd Leffen any time during his combo string after the up-throw, but would have risked giving up his punish for an edge guarding situation. When you're in control, it's best to stay in control and not take any risks or give anyone any second chances.

So no, the kill move is not the best move to do in every situation.

 

[Aerros11]

I can't disagree more with this statement.

Achilles gave a great example with waveshining, but allow me to share an example from a tournament set:

Watch Armada's Fox here in this match. Armada is a student of the game, and knows how to use his hitboxes to their maximum potential, and how percentages factor into every move. Watch Armada's combo five minutes in. Armada get's a chain grab to up-smash punish, and forces Leffen into a tech chase situation. Armada turns to react to tech in place, but reacts to the tech attack and punished with a JC grab. At this point, Armada has a couple of options:

1. Throw Leffen offstage and convert the situation to an edgeguarding situation, despite Leffen being at a low percent
2. Throw Leffen onto the platform, and convert the situation to another tech chase situation with a potentially better vantage point and build more percent
3. Throw Leffen behind him and try to keep him close for a combo
4. Throw Leffen down and maybe convert the situation to a tech chase situation
5. Let Leffen mash out and try to go for a grab release shine

Armada chooses to throw Leffen onto the platform. Leffen tech rolls to the right, then Armada reacts and covers it with an Uair. Leffen is at 57 percent and DIs left. Armada reacts again and hits him with soft Nair, building his percent to 69%. If Armada had Bair'd when he Soft Naired, Leffen could again jump out and up-b or just side-b back to the ledge before Armada could cover it. Leffen was ready for the bair, and chooses to side-b, and Armada knows this. Since late Nair gave him less recovery frames (he landed with an AC) he read the side-b and up-tiled it (old school options, yay). This is a great exmple of what Armada is amazing at, forcing players into situations they really don't want to be in.

Leffen is now at 78%. Not kill percent whatsoever for a bair. In order to tack on some more damage and keep the combo going rather than risk another option select, Armada opts for another soft Nair to lock Leffen into hitstun, reads the DI, and responds with a F-Smash. Leffen now at 101% flies into the blast-zone despite decent DI.

If Armada had thrown Leffen offstage early, Leffen probably wouldn't have died - He's only at 39% before the throw, and sending him slightly offstage to go for a gimp isn't a great idea (Leffen could simply jump out of the throw at the percent he was at). Armada throwing Leffen back into the center of the stage could be a terrible idea as well, since it gives Leffen stage control, which could risk him losing his punish. Additionally, throwing Leffen down is a risky move, since it could potentially allow Leffen to tech into the center and gain stage back.

The point that I'm getting at with this is Armada could have Bair'd Leffen any time during his combo string after the up-throw, but would have risked giving up his punish for an edge guarding situation. When you're in control, it's best to stay in control and not take any risks or give anyone any second chances.

So no, the kill move is not the best move to do in every situation.

Armada at:
5:03 - Upsmash after up throw knowingly early, not as a kill move but because it was the best option (my point)
5:06 - Uairs knowingly early, not as a kill move but because it was the best option (which was also my point)
5:09 - Nairs instead of Bairs because his opponent (already airborne) was too inward after too few combos

This example wasn't exactly ideal but for a better example, anyone can feel relative percents if they really know their character (even if percents are invisible) because of opponent flight distances. For really narrow percentage windows that only enable specific combos, that's the only concern (that and R/L ledge recovery at 100%)

Everyone has their concerns about this idea but I would prefer feedback, not from theory, but from actual use experience of no HUD. I also seem to be the only one speaking from a standpoint that has experienced both worlds.

 

[Myougi]

Armada at:
5:03 - Upsmash after up throw knowingly early, not as a kill move but because it was the best option (my point)
5:06 - Uairs knowingly early, not as a kill move but because it was the best option (which was also my point)
5:09 - Nairs instead of Bairs because his opponent (already airborne) was too inward after too few combos

This example wasn't exactly ideal but for a better example, anyone can feel relative percents if they really know their character (even if percents are invisible) because of opponent flight distances. For really narrow percentage windows that only enable specific combos, that's the only concern (that and R/L ledge recovery at 100%)

Everyone has their concerns about this idea but I would prefer feedback, not from theory, but from actual use experience of no HUD. I also seem to be the only one speaking from a standpoint that has experienced both worlds.

Ugh. You're completely missing the mark here.

The point was he's not using a 'kill move' to send people off stage, and is using his hitboxes wisely to extend his punish in order to build percent and then secure a kill. Your original example suggested using 'kill moves' all the time to try to net early kills, which isn't how the game is played at a high level. Top level players purposely lock their opponent down and force them in situations where they wouldn't have the risk of winning an option select.

Even if players 'really know their character' a decent portion of Melee's attacks have set knockbacks, or ambiguous knockback values (sometimes these are from factors like CCs or V-Cancels) that some players might forget about. Shine, Fox's drill, or really any downward move that locks opponents down has similar knockback at varieties of percents. I'm not explaining this the best I can, but imagine this scenario -

Sheik is running around hitting you with needles at a couple of late nairs. Both of these moves don't scale in knockback quite as noticeably as other moves, and a sudden fair could ruin an opponent's stock when they think they might be at a low enough percent to CC or something.

I said it before and I'll say it again: You're taking away a vital core mechanic to Smash that's vital to how people play the neutral game. You're just ridiculous and you're not even mindful of the after effects that stem from removing percentages. You're not 'speaking from both worlds', you're just being ignorant on supporting your own terrible decision.

This is probably the last post I'm going to make here. I'm tired of arguing about your thick-headed ideas.

 

[coruptpope57]

Is there any codes that move the % and stocks to the top of the screen ?