Din's Fire SUPER BUFF!

[GamerGuy09]

If you are watching the Nintendo Treehouse playing Smash Bros! Din's Fire is like HUGE now and seems to deal a lot of knockback!

 

[BJN39]

If you are watching the Nintendo Treehouse playing Smash Bros! Din's Fire is like HUGE now and seems to deal a lot of knockback!

Yes, the SWEETSPOT can kill quite early, but sadly you're mistaken about the actual size. Yes the visual is HUGE, but the actual hit-box is smaller than the visual causing it to miss. Occasionally even if the flames touch you.

On top of that, the sweetspot is quite small, making it hard to hit, the channel distance, fireball maneuverability, and damage were badly weakened, and it no longer slows your falling in midair. Even more so on top of that, it still can be cancelled by 90% of aerials and causes freefall in the air.

Just thought that should be put out there. It sucks. ^ ^ I hate Sakurai so much right now concerning this move...

 

[|ven|]

Me and Ed were taking about that last night. It seems like the hitbox was decreased. Along with the visual, it seems like Palutena got Zelda's past dins fire. Or at least that's what we saw in a video

 

[Toadallstar2]

It has its ups and downs apparently. What bothers me is how short the distance is now when before it was so high.
Ignoring competitive play, I love Dins. It's very effective in matches with multiple people, great at getting the final smash, and quite effective against those not as familiar with the game.
Now, I'm not too sure. We'll find out more...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

From what I saw, I actually think we are going in the good direction.

We traded range for power, and actually always thought this range was a bit too much. Not op though, it's a predictable move after all. The shorter range also allow us to use a max powered Din's Fire at... Well a shorter range. Which is good, because not every stages are Palutena's Temple.
My only concern is the radius of the sourspot, which seems a bit too small, but the sweetspot is devasting. It's Zelda's gimmick. I do hope that, for balance's sake, the radius will be bigger.

The move is still situational, but she isn't the only one to have situational moves. Remember Sakurai stating that the Falcon Punch was a good move in free for all, but not really in 1vs1?

 

[BJN39]

^ For non-competitives, yeah. It doesn't matter. But the point for me (And many Zeldas) is that it just SUCKS in 1v1, or VS any player that can keep themselves in focus, in a FFA or teams.

And I'm only talking about Brawl.

In SSB4, with a smaller hit-box, you can't even mix it up by putting it behind them. (Even if you succeed with the smaller large hit-box it only does 3-7% in the sourspot.) But if you aim it at them to try to sweetspot it they'll see it and just cancel it out with a normal priority attack.

Basically, every competitive Zelda wanted a projectile they could use more so in the competitive scene, and instead, Sakurai designed it to be EVEN WORSE competitively in just about every situation.

So yeah:
Non-competitives > NBD. It's just different.
Competitive players > worse direction in every way. Absolutely no compensation or help for us long-suffering Zelda mains.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yeah, I agree it's not looking good for the competitive side. Din's fire was never good for the competitive side, and will probably never be ._.

But I, in all honestly, don't really see how it could work competitively, without changing completely the mechanics (thinking of PM)

I also wonder: how many characters had "non competitive" moves?

Edit: Is it me or Din's Fire travel speed seems faster?

 

[Final Fujin 2]

nnnnnn these casuals getting their life from the new Zelda.

 

[Nicky_Poo]

I think it's a little faster but I thought the movement was more limited.

What kind of projectile do you think would benefit her competitively?

 

[Katy Parry]

Keep in mind we're going to have variations of this move! I'm guessing one of them will be the ability to control it very quickly and sharply with minor damage.

 

[FalKoopa]

Keep in mind we're going to have variations of this move! I'm guessing one of them will be the ability to control it very quickly and sharply with minor damage.

I really doubt customization will make it into the competitive scene.

So, based on the replies in the thread, is it safe to assume that the thread title is misleading?

 

[staindgrey]

Yeah, I agree it's not looking good for the competitive side. Din's fire was never good for the competitive side, and will probably never be ._.

But I, in all honestly, don't really see how it could work competitively, without changing completely the mechanics (thinking of PM)

I also wonder: how many characters had "non competitive" moves?

I feel like every character has some sort of non-competitive move. Or, at the very least, a move that is usually ignored due to being inefficient. Din's Fire just seems to be an excessively bad idea.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I feel like every character has some sort of non-competitive move. Or, at the very least, a move that is usually ignored due to being inefficient. Din's Fire just seems to be an excessively bad idea.

It's really one of those moves you don't try to pull in 1vs1. I don't think, for example, that PK Flash, or even PK Freeze is better in the same situation (OR I'm really bad with Ness and Lucas).

Din's Fire seems to be able to do wonders in free for all if done well, though. I just hope the explosion radius, and the sourspot damages will be buffed. This looked a bit ridiculous.

 

[Katy Parry]

I really doubt customization will make it into the competitive scene.

So, based on the replies in the thread, is it safe to assume that the thread title is misleading?

But I'm guessing there would be a "build " of some sort that analyzes all the moves that are offered, and makes a ruleset of what moves are approved. You know? Like Zelda can only have X , Y, and Z variations of her specials, and that would even replace her current standards.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'm not really a competitive player, but I guess custom movesets COULD make it. But this would require strict rules. Like deciding of a moveset first, and not being able to change it through the tournament.

The risk is that there could be "builds" more effective than others.

 

[BJN39]

I really hope custom special options are not banned. I'd love it if we, say, check them out and THEN ban ones that are "unfair" so to speak.

Because as you can see, some of Mario's custom options seemingly WON'T be broken or anything, but just a variation. (Like, electric cape, or fast fireballs. AFAIK those aren't bad at all.)

Some of them, though, should be banned from the start. (Like the explosive Up B. Did you see that KB? Just crazy.)

Besides, any variations they give Zelda couldn't POSSIBLY be ban-worthy...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'm just eager to see the variations on Zelda.

I wonder how they can change Farore's Wind and Nayru's Love... But I kinda hope for OoT Din's Fire. And a quick, Mewtwo like teleport for Farore's Wind. And a holdable Nayru's love.

Maybe those custom moveset will make my dreams come true. But... Let's not make too high expectations

 

[staindgrey]

It's an intriguing argument to be made, regarding custom movesets. As long as none of them seem particularly or excessively advantageous, I think letting people pick their own movesets could make tournaments really interesting. You could see a mirror match with two completely different playstyles going against one another. That would be pretty kickass.

Also, it could be used to keep the obviously bad characters from being TOO bad if they have some good customization options. (Case in point: Zelda.)

 

[Nintendo Fan]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't she still enter the helpless state when using this move in midair? I think that Sakurai should've at least fixed that part, considering the move is really predictable and not helpful in recoveries at all. I get that now it's been “buffed,” but regardless I think that that wasn't that much of a change considering Zelda's low status. Competitively, I'd say that it could be very helpful for Zelda's problems of sweet-spotting the ledge during recovery or trying to knock off or force a retreat for edge-guarders. I know that know Smash 4's ledge game is entirely new but I just don't see the logic in some of Zelda's moves...

 

[Alacion]

How on earth is Smash 4's Din's Fire a buff?

One of Zelda's biggest weaknesses is that she can't do consistently good damage. She relies on sweetspots and the new Din's Fire does just that.

Like... Din's Fire not only needs to be sweet spotted, but you have to make sure the opponent doesn't cancel it with a nair or flat out airdodge it. I'm 99% positive that you can't customize Din's Fire to have transcendent priority.

Bair/fair/dair are super unreliable (high risk, high reward). Up smash and fsmash are seen to be SDI'd with minimal effort and you guys think Din's Fire will help Zelda in Smash 4? >_>

http://youtu.be/lO3ZXn2DQis?t=2m50s >>>> http://youtu.be/kzURoGXCFPw?t=1m43s

 

[Nintendo Fan]

You know, when you look at and hear people saying that Zelda is now faster and has more movement in Smash 4, you have to take into consideration that the game is faster and that everyone else basically got the same cut. Zelda has just been one of those characters who has unfortunately been stuck with a moveset that has setbacks, and I feel like if a customization had any advantage, it would probably still be overlooked. To me, some characters have ridiculous moves (MK in general), and I can understand how Din's Fire is probably seen as a spammable nuisance by others. I may be biased towards her just getting buffed; there are probably a lot of other people who think that she was pretty ridiculous in Brawl too though. In the end, Din's Fire suits her, yet I see Zelda's potential being hindered by silly things like this.

Btw, Phantom Slash should get more range in my opinion (<- see what I'm talking about?).

 

[staindgrey]

How on earth is Smash 4's Din's Fire a buff?

One of Zelda's biggest weaknesses is that she can't do consistently good damage. She relies on sweetspots and the new Din's Fire does just that.

Like... Din's Fire not only needs to be sweet spotted, but you have to make sure the opponent doesn't cancel it with a nair or flat out airdodge it. I'm 99% positive that you can't customize Din's Fire to have transcendent priority.

Bair/fair/dair are super unreliable (high risk, high reward). Up smash and fsmash are seen to be SDI'd with minimal effort and you guys think Din's Fire will help Zelda in Smash 4? >_>

http://youtu.be/lO3ZXn2DQis?t=2m50s >>>> http://youtu.be/kzURoGXCFPw?t=1m43s

I think it's mainly just the OP that thinks it's been buffed. Most of the other posts I've read are of a dissenting opinion.

Overall, I'm so far disappointed in Zelda's changes. Whereas ZSS, my other main, seemed to get nothing but buffs, Zelda's changes seem underwhelmingly static. And relying even more on sweetspots with no real changes otherwise makes her even higher risk with arguably no extra reward.

I need way more time with her. That Smash-fest was a goddamn tease.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

IT MIGHT BE GOOD IN TEAMS GUYS

but 1 vs 1 its worse than before

sorry gurls

I'll see yew on the other side

xoxo

 

[Toadallstar2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-X65DcZdzU
A saw this video where Dins goes to the other side of Battlefield at least, and it seems faster too. I think in some situations, it looks to be rather decent, but in others, not so much. Such as when she knocks a character far off stage and wishes to finish with Dins, it won't reach them anymore. So I guess they took the somewhat "broken" usage away. (At least in terms of non-competitive/expert fashion)

Still though the few that managed to play with her, and the rest who are watching still have no idea on if she as a whole is better or worse. I think we got to play with her for a few hours and judge overall to make this assessment.

Either way, good talk. At times I feel optimistic, and at times (especially when I read threads like this) feel pessimistic.

@staindgrey I like reading your posts, you write well.

 

[staindgrey]

@staindgrey I like reading your posts, you write well.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

I actually went to college for an English degree with emphases in narrative theory and creative writing, but unfortunately had to drop out due to some life circumstances. Compliments on my writing are pretty much the best ones I can possibly receive!

 

[Toadallstar2]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

I actually went to college for an English degree with emphases in narrative theory and creative writing, but unfortunately had to drop out due to some life circumstances. Compliments on my writing are pretty much the best ones I can possibly receive!

Ah, well you're gifted so you'll accomplish whatever you set yourself up for. ZSS is a secondary of mine so I'm excited to try her out too. She looks fierce from the looks of it so far.
I miss the days of Brawl online when I could annihilate with Zelda against the plentiful top tier against me. It was empowering in a way given how flawed she is. However, now I want her strong lol. Dins is about the only thing I'm upset about so far though. Well, phantom but anything is better than nothing.

 

[staindgrey]

I have zero complaints about ZSS, aside from the highlighter-colored high heel design. She's seemed to get nothing but buffs and felt very powerful when I used her at Best Buy.

I actually just picked up Zelda in recent months. Ever since the Smash-focused Nintendo Direct, I've been playing a lot of Melee/Brawl again and to liven things up I wanted to pick up a character I'd never really used before. For some reason, I fell in love with Zelda and her patient style of gameplay. Less spastic and all over the place; more controlled and predictive. I've been using her a good 50% of the time since picking the game back up, and she's fun. There's plenty to learn about her and I don't claim to be an expert, but I figured now would be the time to learn her, y'know?

 

[Toadallstar2]

^ Yepp, a great idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no614YZzZsY
Sorry for horrible quality but found this.

0:15 Sweetspot Dins on Pikachu did 15%. It's true that it causes more damage close up compared to brawl which only did far away.

For more vids, check my posts here.

 

[Katy Parry]

^ Yepp, a great idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no614YZzZsY
Sorry for horrible quality but found this.

0:15 Sweetspot Dins on Pikachu did 15%. It's true that it causes more damage close up compared to brawl which only did far away.

For more vids, check my posts here.

I'm starting to think they hadn't started balancing yet. 15% upclose? .... My full Din's Fire (even in the core) did only 12% to Mario.

 

[im just peachy]

Keep in mind we're going to have variations of this move! I'm guessing one of them will be the ability to control it very quickly and sharply with minor damage.

maybe the alternate versions of the move will be like
1. default din's fire
2. longer reach din's fire, with less damage
3. short reach din's fire, with more damage
what do you think !

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

maybe the alternate versions of the move will be like
1. default din's fire
2. longer reach din's fire, with less damage
3. short reach din's fire, with more damage
what do you think !

That's not really original, frankly ^^' Sakurai proved us he can do more than just that (and with Mario's Fireball!). Here is the Zelda custom move thread if you want to discuss about the other move as well http://smashboards.com/threads/zeld...ns-fire-never-looked-like-that-anyway.359083/

 

[Katty Shepherd]

IT MIGHT BE GOOD IN TEAMS GUYS

but 1 vs 1 its worse than before

sorry gurls

I'll see yew on the other side

xoxo

From what I've heard Zelda has always been a fantastic team player, particularly when they're big enough for her to hide behind them.
Anyway, so what you guys are saying is that we got one move (Phantom) but traded it for another (Din's). Why Sakurai? Why?

 

[meleebrawler]

I said this on a few other threads here, but I think the new air dodge mechanics may help Fire a bit.

Specifically, air dodging too close to the ground results in lag. By aiming at landing opponents
it may become more difficult to dodge.