Dining Philosophers Mafia! Game Over - Who Won???

[#HBC | Acrostic]

My timing on this is horrible, but I'm floating some thoughts because I need a backboard. First of all, I'm not sure if I'm taking it too literally but I don't like soup's shift between his posts in #17/#19 and #22/#23 .

...Look at the phase we're in. If you took my intention as serious, then you've completely detracted the whole point of that post. Congratulations, Kantplay.

Do you even know what you're saying? I sometimes wonder. What are you trying to show by mimicing me in a snarky manner? Do you understand why I made that original post? Do you understand why I responded the way I did? If you can't answer either, then you don't know the context and you don't know the reason. Therefore, your post makes absolutely no sense and you're doing it wrong.

I'm not sure if #22 could be written with a straight face given this was what was written:

Vote: ~Tac~

Pressure the newbie until he town or scumtells.

Seriously, this post is supposed to lead us to assume that he has deeper motivations from this single line alone? And presuming that this was supposed to have inklings of seriousness, why blatantly contradict the seriousness of the post a couple of comments before? Posts #17 and 19 both sit fine with in that it keeps up with stereotypical RVS behavior. However, what I don't know how to read is this sudden shift in seriousness #22 when soup had already made it clear that such behavior wasn't supposed to be construed as being serious in his prior post. This shift is further compounded with a put down to ~Tac~ which comes across as soup now being upset.

I understand you're really anxious and that you're trying to force content but now ~Tac~ will ignore what I said completely. Thank you. Thank you for getting involved when you didn't need to.

"~Tac~ will ignore what I said completely." Now call me blind but what did soup say, if anything. Now I'm short on time, so I'm assuming that soup will say that this is a typo and he meant to say that ~Tac~ will ignore what he will have to say. But really, truly, seriously do we assume that such an early interaction between soup and KWK greatly compromise soup's position in arguing and gambiting?
I am curious why TBG decided to try to pick-up soup's pressure on ~Tac~ while specifically quoting him admitting personal defeat on the read. This is a major question of what TBG was thinking by picking up what I would consider to be a poor FOS. I don't see why someone would invest in something that is defeated rather than start a new attempt at a ~Tac~ read by trying a different angle or trying to read other people in the player cast and letting other people focus on ~Tac~ in the mean time.
KWK comes in with what I interpret to be a feeler question.

I'm glad you asked that. I actually think he's town for the moment being and I was more annoyed than anything else. I can understand his motive for his posts that doesn't mean they were very good. My assumption is that KWK rolled town, got anxious and felt the need to try and force content. I would expect both of them to be more careful as scum. Do you agree?

No. No. No. Isn't this just reaching. Why would KWK have to roll town to be anxious. Why would he force content as town. Why would he need to try as town. Why does scum necessarily have to play carefully? Why are these factors necessarily consistent with town and not consistent with mafia? These need to be addressed if this isn't a gambit and soup was being serious with the read.

It's not about the instance of forcing content rather the intention. I felt their attempts were genuine.

Oh boy. soup mind reader extraordinaire. Again how does soup get a genuine feel on KWK does it tickle his mafia gut? Has he compiled so much meta data on KWK that he can decipher their very mind within a couple of posts? It is posts like these, in times like now, that should be explained, need to be explained.

It's rather simple that people such as myself would draw such attention and excitement. Even I need sleep, dear fellows. Now what is genuine, would be an attack of such caliber upon one evidently unbeknownst. One shameless of a sucker punch in a fight.

Jesus christ.

Such aggression. A smarter man wouldn't mess with one with your behaviour, Sir Soup.

Jesus ****ing christ.

 

[Killstic]

My timing on this is horrible, but I'm floating some thoughts because I need a backboard. First of all, I'm not sure if I'm taking it too literally but I don't like soup's shift between his posts in #17/#19 and #22/#23 .





I'm not sure if #22 could be written with a straight face given this was what was written:

Seriously, this post is supposed to lead us to assume that he has deeper motivations from this single line alone? And presuming that this was supposed to have inklings of seriousness, why blatantly contradict the seriousness of the post a couple of comments before? Posts #17 and 19 both sit fine with in that it keeps up with stereotypical RVS behavior. However, what I don't know how to read is this sudden shift in seriousness #22 when soup had already made it clear that such behavior wasn't supposed to be construed as being serious in his prior post. This shift is further compounded with a put down to ~Tac~ which comes across as soup now being upset.

"~Tac~ will ignore what I said completely." Now call me blind but what did soup say, if anything. Now I'm short on time, so I'm assuming that soup will say that this is a typo and he meant to say that ~Tac~ will ignore what he will have to say. But really, truly, seriously do we assume that such an early interaction between soup and KWK greatly compromise soup's position in arguing and gambiting?
I am curious why TBG decided to try to pick-up soup's pressure on ~Tac~ while specifically quoting him admitting personal defeat on the read. This is a major question of what TBG was thinking by picking up what I would consider to be a poor FOS. I don't see why someone would invest in something that is defeated rather than start a new attempt at a ~Tac~ read by trying a different angle or trying to read other people in the player cast and letting other people focus on ~Tac~ in the mean time.
KWK comes in with what I interpret to be a feeler question.


No. No. No. Isn't this just reaching. Why would KWK have to roll town to be anxious. Why would he force content as town. Why would he need to try as town. Why does scum necessarily have to play carefully? Why are these factors necessarily consistent with town and not consistent with mafia? These need to be addressed if this isn't a gambit and soup was being serious with the read.

Oh boy. soup mind reader extraordinaire. Again how does soup get a genuine feel on KWK does it tickle his mafia gut? Has he compiled so much meta data on KWK that he can decipher their very mind within a couple of posts? It is posts like these, in times like now, that should be explained, need to be explained.

Jesus christ.

Jesus ****ing christ.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'm pulling a Rajam and no one can stop me. Heads will fly if Rajam isn't satisfied.

burlymanarms.emoticon

 

[Killstic]

I'm pulling a Rajam and no one can stop me. Heads will fly if Rajam isn't satisfied.

burlymanarms.emoticon

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

~Tac~ if you are reading this you will be lynched. At his rate you only have 20 hours left before you likely die. If you really, truly believe anyone else to be mafia that you want us to look into then start typing. Make no mistake, you will die, but it would help to see how you interpreted how today's events went. Also please do not vote yourself unless you are 100% positive it will help the town in doing so.

 

[Killstic]

~Tac~ if you are reading this you will be lynched. At his rate you only have 20 hours left before you likely die. If you really, truly believe anyone else to be mafia that you want us to look into then start typing. Make no mistake, you will die, but it would help to see how you interpreted how today's events went. Also please do not vote yourself unless you are 100% positive it will help the town in doing so.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@MOD: I was always playing solo but I feel the Killstic account is just dead weighted by post waiting so I'm going to be using this account from now on.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

~Tac~ you thought that dabuz voted and then he became sick. However dabuz clarified that his introduction post was him being sick, therefore debunking your case that dabuz took a suspicious leave of absence. I don't understand why you continue to push this case when dabuz himself told you that you misconstrued his post. What I AM curious to find out is which post you misconstrued for dabuz's post and for you to clarify in detail. Second, let's for arguments sake say that dabuz did vote and then decided to intentionally leave under pretense of sickness. How is that necessarily scummy? Why do you construe this action with something that mafia would do and not a townie? Then there is the question of why you assume that mafia would do something like this. I am interested in what mafia moldings you are working with in your mind because most of us don't follow pace with your thought process.

~Tac~ this isn't role playing. In fact at this point, no one else has said this to you blatantly, but it would help if you dropped the RP completely if you haven't done so already and to try speaking how you do in your normal posts. I know you can speak normally because I took a peek at how you speak in the Raichu thread. I actually don't doubt that you're "unphased" by you being put at L-3 since you're still keeping up the pretense of talking like whatever philosopher you got in the role PM.

Assuming we're working with a mafia pair that shares a QT, ~Tac~ mafia would be leaving left to dry here. If I was mafia with ~Tac~ I would have fielded him something like telling him to withdraw the sickness vote as an RVS vote. To cherry pick (cause I'm a cherry picker)

Tossing in a vote for seemingly no reason raises a flag for me.

#RVS
In addition to that he seems super obstinate and I feel is working with a mafia model that clearly isn't how anyone of the remaining player list would approach the game. Points being made that he has no intention to scumhunt, he's trying to recline and disappear, and that he's faking content would have relevance assuming that ~Tac~ knows how to appropriately scumhunt, mix in, and produce reads. But I don't know how anyone could pass that judgment call because I only see someone who clearly joined a game for very wrong reasons and no one gave him the memo otherwise.

soup if you want to continue pushing this then I'm open to hearing it. But I don't see how you're sure of ~Tac~ scum over ~Tac~ town that needs to be carried.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Oh my god, who do I want to get? Are we going to have some agreement here cause we need to pull five votes: Pota, soup, KWK, me (+1 who else)

@mod: Deadline extension please due to site being down.

 

[Kantrip]

I am the KWK slot.

Acrostic I like your drive to get the town going somewhere, but now we need to know where that somewhere is. Would you be okay with a TBG lynch? I'd go for Tac over a NL but I wouldn't prefer his lynch.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I am the KWK slot.

Acrostic I like your drive to get the town going somewhere, but now we need to know where that somewhere is. Would you be okay with a TBG lynch? I'd go for Tac over a NL but I wouldn't prefer his lynch.

Out of curiosity, why do you want TBG over Known Mafia.

 

[Dabuz]

Seconding what KM said, how did I stick my neck out?

unvote
Tac's vote and subsequent unvote on Dabuz read Town to me, largely due to the reasoning behind them.

IDC what your stance is now, why would you get a town read from ~Tac~'s actions up to this point? Go into what about the reasoning you like.

Faking content? I hear this from only two people, but at the same time it's understandable because it's in the same circle of votes. Outside of us, I would also like to be provided any demonstrations of fakery and bull**** because I fail to see them myself outside of my above mistake.

One can only assume such, I do think soup town atm. As for Dabuz, gut feels for now. Regardless of said sickness, (do get better soon, if you are) I voted dabuz for jumping too quickly on a vote in the manner shown. Tossing in a vote for seemingly no reason raises a flag for me. Especially when a hiatus is declared shortly after. In addition, it's familiar to me that one that wishes to do dirty work, thinks simple at first and goes under the table second in thought process. It's still early-esque, and I don't mind being proven wrong. Server instability threw me off a bit too.

Your entire logic here is based on what you think scum might do, nothing concrete or useful that helps find scum and it could be applicable to basically anything at any point in the game. Then lets consider that this logic and thought train comes your analysis of my vote which never happened, it's literally NOTHING to base off of. I also get bothered by blanket statements like "raises a flag" and "gut feels" because you throw out an opinion but without needing to back it up or do anything which would scumhunt.

As a Sidenote, I take back my clarification in #69 since re-reading, I realize I had the situation initially correct.

 

[Kantrip]

Out of curiosity, why do you want TBG over Known Mafia.

Known Mafia was asking some okay questions on the first page. I mean, I'd go that direction too if the wind blew that way but TBG has been more useless and will probably continue to maintain that standard.

Also, he's sitting beside me and that disgusts me. I don't want him stealing my fork, you see.

crumbing a PR?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

First of all, things were already "started". There's no way you would have known this though given the fact that you didn't read the thread before you tried to "start" things up. It is ironic though since you are a believer in RVS, although based on how you *******ized it this game I'm going with it being mostly centered on it being a habit than an actual utility. Take your actual question where you ask people who they "trust" on material you haven't even read. If I were to actually take this question seriously, then I would compromise my ability to effectively gambit those slots for reads. For instance, say that I told you that I "trusted" soup based on how he started the game. I've let it be known to Soup that he sits well with me and if I tried to push on him immediately afterwards in order to flesh out reads, it would be tainted since he would be under the impression that I will not lead a bandwagon against him if he answers in a questioning manner. What your question is effectively asking is for me to trade in prospective thread power for what... for you to see content, get reads? Then that becomes a question of me evaluating whether I think that trading in my thread power which would constitute gambits is worth it for you to get content so you can make reads. And really, I don't think your reads are worth that compromise seeing as how you've decided to heave away with great force what importance you could have in immediate early game.

Woah, did not expect.

So in a nutshell, you want to wait since it removes what power you can use to scum hunt? And answering me does not help you with that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What made us sticking our necks out interesting? Does this help with your read? How did TBG stick his neck out?

You went for an answer instead of just a null to my question, shows lack of fear to be seen and noticed. Very small tell, and doesn't work with some players, but it's something I use in pregame, nowadays, to get started on my readlist.

TBG did the same thing so I liked the response a bit.

It gives me tone, something I've been trying to read into in mafia games more recently.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@mod: I would like to second the extension due to the sites 2 day downtime.

 

[Kantrip]

Ruy can duy

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Tac, I do want to see other games you have played this will help me read you. Also tell me how many games you have played of mafia.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ruy can duy

 

[Kantrip]

Mmm, that solidifies it.

Vote: Red Ryu

Policy lynches can wait, this guy is scum. (BTW RR this is a serious accusation in case you missed that lol)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It is?

I'd like to hear why.

 

[Kantrip]

You really thought I was joking?

Who do you want to lynch right now, assume we don't get more time to figure stuff out.
What do you think of Acro right now? How about soup? Me?
Would you lynch TBG or Tac based off what we know about them right now?

 

[Dooms]

Oh crud, I didn't realize deadline was so close ;-;.

I also want an extension due to the site being down since we completely lost two days of play time.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Handorin I saw you viewing the thread. There is no reason for you to lurk given our current deadline. Nor to contribute any reads. Nor to continue your current play with is hyper conservative to say the least.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Reading.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Known Mafia was asking some okay questions on the first page. I mean, I'd go that direction too if the wind blew that way but TBG has been more useless and will probably continue to maintain that standard.

Also, he's sitting beside me and that disgusts me. I don't want him stealing my fork, you see.

crumbing a PR?

The type of questions Known Mafia asks are fine for RVS and getting a feel of the game. But that's precisely why I'm uncomfortable with the slot because the impression that I got from initial skim is that he's been giving off this feeling that he's trying to gauge where people might be going instead of asserting himself directly in the game after getting responses and information. Questions are crucial, but I don't really see where they are going or Handorin using them to reach x. There is no doubt that the game was passive and slow, so there was no need for mafia to assert themselves.

I don't understand how a utility argument can be made for a TBG lynch, when there hasn't been much traction made from anyone aside from soup, dabuz. Sell me the lynch if you really believe this is a mafia flip. Also my philosophy on the forks is that I was just going to let NAs play out without trying to engineer anything until we get to later game.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Seems I've dug myself a hole there. Believe it or not, that was a legit typo. Re-read that quote and consider whether I meant intentional or unintentional as my typo. Inconsistent logic? I'd like to see more of a basis excluding that strangely phrased post I made. I won't edit it, but I will refer to it and this conjunctively.

Your logic comes off as inconsistent because you completely detract your vote and reasoning for voting Dabuz in a matter of one post. I don't know what Dabuz did exactly to get an unvote from you, or why you did it in the first place. What I got from your post is that you intentionally baited Dabuz with a vote, but at what cost? Even if you happened to typo, your post doesn't really make a lick of sense still. You unintentionally pursued Dabuz on faulty logic? Your whole reason to vote Dabuz stemmed from the fact you thought he voted somehow. This is really odd and I think you understood that you ****ed up, trying to save face.

It would still seem that from the beginning your vote is of sheer will to keep appearance in intimidation as well. Phased, I'm not. Concerned, possibly. Only due to the pressure you're trying to commit could easily be misinterpreted again, imo. You seem to be quite a danger to town and scum alike.

Speak proper English. This isn't Philosophy 101. What do you exactly mean here? You're not phased? You should be. I'm a danger to town and scum? In what way? Clarify.

Do you truly find one's being open to proven wrong bad? I think it'd open more possibility to discussion and subtlety to scumhunting. If you're proven right, it's the end of a conversation and on to another topic; yet we're still on the debate of justifying me and my interpretations. Ludicrous, yes it is. I believe the same detail can be thrown on you without a doubt.

This doesn't tell me anything, nor will I accept it as a response. You're falling back on some sort of tell that I'm supposed to know about you, trying to justify your own actions. Instead of going on about Freudian theories and your complex mind, why don't you tell me something actually useful? Your reads, perhaps? We'll start small. I don't understand at all what you're trying to say. The same can be said about me? Why does this matter? Why even say something like this in the first place? I don't know what you're trying to get at, and what you exactly expect me to understand.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Vote: TBG

Who's in?

...Give a reason? Is this another reaction test? After two days without content and ignoring me, you come back to vote a guy who has made one post in RVS. ..Why? This makes him scum, apparently? There needs to be more reason behind this, not even the dumbest townie or scum would follow this wagon as it comes off as baseless and absentminded.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Woah, did not expect.

So in a nutshell, you want to wait since it removes what power you can use to scum hunt? And answering me does not help you with that.

It's not waiting. It's weighing. If you town read a slot in early game, then gambiting them doesn't make sense. Gambits are only really effective on newbies in early game, but I didn't think that ~Tac~ or TBG were worth it. So I decided to throw that away and just try to read you first. But that didn't work out the way I wanted it to, however I think that I have a pretty good read on ~Tac~ thanks to soup/dabuz.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

...Give a reason? Is this another reaction test? After two days without content and ignoring me, you come back to vote a guy who has made one post in RVS. ..Why? This makes him scum, apparently? There needs to be more reason behind this, not even the dumbest townie or scum would follow this wagon as it comes off as baseless and absentminded.

Soup address my comments in #81 please.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Known Mafia was asking some okay questions on the first page. I mean, I'd go that direction too if the wind blew that way but TBG has been more useless and will probably continue to maintain that standard.

Also, he's sitting beside me and that disgusts me. I don't want him stealing my fork, you see.

crumbing a PR?

This actually poses an interesting idea that I've been thinking about.

The mechanic in this game is that all Night Actions can only be completed if you grab two forks.

Spoiler

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac30/X1-12/Table_zps3432a0a9.png[/collapse]

• • In order to perform an action, you need to be able to pick up 2 forks
  • At the night phase, if someone makes an action they pick up the fork to the right of them first (All forks are grabbed simultaneously)
  • Players then try and pick up the fork to their left, if they are able to, they perform their action, if not, their action fails
  • This means in order to make use of your night action, the player to the left of you must elect to not act on that night
  • The mafia kill follows the same rules, but those sneaking bad guys are known for trading forks under the table! if two of them are alive you won't be able to stop them making a kill this way. (The passing of forks happens before any Night actions (i.e Roleblocking) occurs

The point of stopping the Mafia Kill isn't essential here, and not what I want to focus on. A vanilla townie would likely have no need to pick up a fork. I want everyone to attempt to use their action tonight. You do not have to out what that action pertains to, and I do not need to know if it went through or not. I will trust that you will inform us if it is important. This will help route out some things.

Does anyone object? Ignoring this mechanic would be foolish and to not use it to our benefit would be also.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Try and read that, the coding is so goddamn bad on this forum.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

soup if you want to continue pushing this then I'm open to hearing it. But I don't see how you're sure of ~Tac~ scum over ~Tac~ town that needs to be carried.

I don't know ~Tac~ besides this game. I'm not going to imply that I can predict his actions or his alignment, but I will imply that I will try to do so. Right now I think he has scum intent, more specifically highlighted in the posts made against him. He still has a couple of things to answer, and I'm not calling for his hammer quite yet.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I think doing that is stupid. Because in a case where everyone picks up their fork, town loses more than what they would normally in a regular game. Hypothetically with an investigative in two setups, A and B, "A" which is a regular game of mafia results in mafia killing someone, but town gaining a report and narrowing down the field of lynches forcing mafia to play in an increasing vacuum pocket. "B" which is this fork mafia results in mafia killing one person, but town gaining no report, however narrowing the field of lynches still helps town in the long run. This is a no brainer.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It is?

I'd like to hear why.

I feel the same way, Kantrip. TBG is just old news now? What happened?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

The only interesting setup speculations I have are mostly immaterial. For instance, contemplating if mafia would have seating arrangements adjacent to each other given what is insinuated about the fork dynamic (Orboknown also queried this) and about whether mafia get a double kill if no one picks up their fork. I don't even believe that an N1 double kill would be a bad thing as it again will just narrow the pocket and hoping that important PRs aren't targeted in cross-fire.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think doing that is stupid. Because in a case where everyone picks up their fork, town loses more than what they would normally in a regular game. Hypothetically with an investigative in two setups, A and B, "A" which is a regular game of mafia results in mafia killing someone, but town gaining a report and narrowing down the field of lynches forcing mafia to play in an increasing vacuum pocket. "B" which is this fork mafia results in mafia killing one person, but town gaining no report, however narrowing the field of lynches still helps town in the long run. This is a no brainer.

Clearly, people are going to get anxious to use their roles regardless. What benefit would there be to wait and not try to use your action? I suppose this can be used as a means of a gambit 'hurr look I didn't pick up the fork I don't have a PR I swear' but that was evident something like that would likely happen.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Clearly, people are going to get anxious to use their roles regardless. What benefit would there be to wait and not try to use your action? I suppose this can be used as a means of a gambit 'hurr look I didn't pick up the fork I don't have a PR I swear' but that was evident something like that would likely happen.

What's wrong with you. The problem is that this is clearly a Prisoner's Dilemma cut and dry. You use your night action, you take someone else's night action away from them. The person next to you is a PR, then you just ****ed them over. You think the person next to you is mafia? Go ahead and **** them over. But having everyone **** each other over resulting in town getting nothing is ****ing stupid.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I don't understand what you're trying to "route" out, maybe, aside from PRs. Are you role fishing.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You're implying that what I say is what is going to happen. What do you think is going to happen? Let's say you're a PR and you want to use your action. Who cares about the other guy next to you? You don't know jack about him and unless you think everyone is going to play fair and nicely, it's inevitable that someone is going to get ****ed over.