Differences Between Dr. Mario and Mario. (Which Italian is better than the other!)

[Deleted member]

They don't make bad balance intentionally. For a game as varied as Smash you can't achieve a perfect balance between characters, there will always be characters that have clear advantages over each other, it's quite simple.

For example, Mewtwo in Melee has a very simple design flaw in that he's light-weight (aka easy to kill) but also very tall (not to mention that his tail has a hitbox), which means it's easy to hit him and easy to kill him. On top of that Mewtwo is slow (thus predictable) and has very little KO power, so in the end the only above average thing about him is probably his recovery. We can then compare him to his superior Pokémon counterpart, which is Jigglypuff. She too is light-weight, in fact she has the lowest weight of any Smash Bros character ever, but to make up for it she's small, has a lot of fast and hard-hitting moves in the air, also has a great recovery (5 jumps plus Pound) and she can combo into what is essentially a one-hit KO. While she shares one of the same flaws as Mewtwo she has so many more advantages over him too, thus it's illogical to not say that she's the stronger character.

We can also take a Brawl example. Ganondorf is very slow and very predictable and he certainly doesn't hit hard enough to make up for it either, and on top of that he's got a sluggish recovery. Then we have Meta Knight, who is small, fast, has a godly recovery, his attacks out-prioritize everyone else's, he has an unmatched aerial game with incredible gimping potential, he has tons of great tools at his exposal that helps him mix up his approaching abilities (the tornado and gliding being the most notable), and on top of that he has certain attacks that hit just as hard as many of Ganondorf's but comes out a ton faster. The only thing Ganondorf has over Meta Knight at all is his weight, which arguably doesn't matter much considering Meta Knight is a much harder target to hit anyways due to his size and speed.

In the case of Dr. Mario vs Mario in Melee the former hits much harder but has a bit more lag on his moves, while Mario is generally faster but doesn't hit as hard. The trade-off for speed is not considered worth it since Dr. Mario already moves at a decent pace, so he doesn't require said speed as much as Mario requires that extra punch of power.

Fact of the matter is that some characters simple do have better tools and stats than others, perfect balance between characters simply can't be achieved, especially not in a cast of what's currently 48 characters, theoretically a frame-perfect Ganondorf will never be able to beat a frame-perfect Meta Knight in a fair battle because Meta Knight as a whole just has the better stats and moves. Now of course the tier lists aren't necessarily 100% right, they should be read as rough outlines and a general idea of who places where, anyone who takes it too much to heart is going to hurt themselves, there's a reason they change ever so often after all.

You can talk about me, my friends, these people, and any other smash character, but leave Mewtwo the FUC* alone!
Oh, and jigglypuff and pikachu aren't better you piece of shi*
cough*
#tierlistnoob

 

[The Pizza Guy]

But Mario doesn't have the special Tornado. Only the crappy normal Tornado.

Sure I was never EVER good at using fludd, but I also really sucked at using Tornado for recovery, mainly because of how much button mashing you needed to do in order to get any distance at all. I can't even use either of them so I don't really prefer one over the other. As for dair tornado, it does at least have more horizontal reach going for it, but that's all really.
More horizontal reach than Dr Mario's dair I mean.

 

[Quillion]

Sure I was never EVER good at using fludd, but I also really sucked at using Tornado for recovery, mainly because of how much button mashing you needed to do in order to get any distance at all. I can't even use either of them so I don't really prefer one over the other. As for dair tornado, it does at least have more horizontal reach going for it, but that's all really.
More horizontal reach than Dr Mario's dair I mean.

FLUDD is f***ing useless. Has to be charged up, does no damage, and only pushes the target back a little bit,

 

[The Pizza Guy]

FLUDD is f***ing useless. Has to be charged up, does no damage, and only pushes the target back a little bit,

FLUDD is bad, what I was trying to say was because I can't button mash fast enough to use rising tornado I'm not very good with it either. But if Tornado requires less button mashing than it did in previous games then I would definitely prefer it to fludd. I mean Doc needs some advantage over his faster clone after all.

 

[Capt. Tin]

IMO, Dr. Mario seems like he should be good, but I'm really struggling with him. He was better than Mario in Melee because most of Dr. Mario's strengths compared to Mario was based around his Melee tech such as wavedashes and the Semi-Spike Bair. I do manage to recover from high percents at times, but I imagine Mario could also make it back too. Super Jump Punch is a good out of Shield move but isn't that good of a kill move.

 

[Blue Warrior]

Does Doc's side B have any advantage over Mario's? From what I understand the sheet has less horizontal reach than cape, which sounds rather limiting on top of it not giving Doc any air.

 

[Capt. Tin]

Does Doc's side B have any advantage over Mario's? From what I understand the sheet has less horizontal reach than cape, which sounds rather limiting on top of it not giving Doc any air.

I think the game says it has more veritcal range.

 

[Capt. Tin]

FLUDD is f***ing useless. Has to be charged up, does no damage, and only pushes the target back a little bit,

F.L.U.D.D is supposed to be a purely edgeguarding move, but it's not really good at it due to the range and having to quickly charge it up before your opponent gets back on stage.

Doc right now suffers from the loss of melee mechanics like Wavedashes, L-Cancels, and the loss of his Semi-Spike.

 

[StarLight42]

FLUDD is f***ing useless. Has to be charged up, does no damage, and only pushes the target back a little bit,

Yeah and half the time it misses or it's not even enough to gimp.

 

[Wintropy]

I thought we'd be celebrating his diversity?

I actually like Doc. He feels like Mario with more lead behind his knuckles. I don't know if either is statistically or notably any better than the other, but I just like the costume and the moves all the same.

 

[Kisatamura]

I think some people still can't get over the changes that Dr. Mario received in this version of Smash.

Or on the other hand, the changes buffs that Mario received in this game. :V

 

[meleebrawler]

Sometimes I get the feeling that people use FLUDD as a a scapegoat for Mario's
lackluster performance in Brawl.

 

[GunGunW]

I agree, although honestly I'd just prefer regular Mario to get the tornado back and I'd be golden

 

[Kisatamura]

FLUDD is definitely used as a scapegoat, though there were many things that made other characters surpass Mario in Brawl (better recovery/offensive actions, game physics, edge physics, etc).

 

[meleebrawler]

FLUDD is definitely used as a scapegoat, though there were many things that made other characters surpass Mario in Brawl (better recovery/offensive actions, game physics, edge physics, etc).

Yeah, I know, it's just when people talk trash about FLUDD you get the impression
that they believe Mario would be 10x better with his old tornado and dair.
Which isn't necessarily true.

 

[Wintropy]

FLUDD definitely has its uses. I've seen players work in some great mix-ups with it and work in some creative keepaway tactics, too.

 

[StarLight42]

I agree, although honestly I'd just prefer regular Mario to get the tornado back and I'd be golden

Give him his old dair back too in addition to this and i'd be fine as well, but i'd still want Doc as a costume.

However, i'm not putting off Dr. Mario now, still very glad he returned and we don't have to deal with terrible FLUDD Mario

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

F.L.U.D.D. isn't "useless." It's an edgeguarding and spacing tool and it got slightly buffed (it pushes a bit farther, but doesn't stop projectiles) in transition from Brawl to Smash 4; why do all of you act like it's supposed to be some kind of magical OHKO, or that Mario would do any better offensively with the Tornado?

And why do Dr. Mario mains act like they're morally superior to regular Mario mains? Does maining the clone mean you have to be more pretentious?

 

[Kisatamura]

Mario doesn't have an uber shoryuken like Dr. Mario. And Mario doesn't have the bouncy fireballs from PM! Maybe Mario should be like Doc! > Actually if Mario had the one hit UpB then that would be cool

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Just a heads up, Mario does have a one-hit UpB. It's a customization option called "Explosion Punch". Doc has one too, but he doesn't need it, because his sureyoucan is good enough (though a tad weaker).

 

[BSP]

FLUDD is f***ing useless. Has to be charged up, does no damage, and only pushes the target back a little bit,

The foolishness is sickening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdkmR1CdELA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Ak2uw3M_o ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LInt9YZRpFQ ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp14n6rx9cY ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qEolQep97k ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJH_G5R-UnA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6eSdJAObqw ; - FLUDD hits your Up B or Side B, you die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrGBtcNRVdk ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Di2gMHZN4 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMJegXab7Jo - You try to retreat to the ledge when Mario has FLUDD, you die
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zic81VxUyrw - Mario can force you into an edgeguarding situation from quite a ways away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVAmHal0FIY ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVbWAWCtL74 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y_snkFUDh4 - forces people into bad situations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeTEleMAOuA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quh***Sttiw - the best shoryuken punisher in the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBYtNY21D8 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UflXJ2nDeds - Forced Falcon to miss the edge, falls to his death; KO'd him for just using Side B

This is only 2 weeks into the game, and nowhere close to every single time I've used FLUDD effectively. Sorry if I repeated something. I just had so many times where FLUDD was useful that I lost track.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

The foolishness is sickening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdkmR1CdELA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Ak2uw3M_o ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LInt9YZRpFQ ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp14n6rx9cY ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qEolQep97k ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJH_G5R-UnA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6eSdJAObqw ; - FLUDD hits your Up B or Side B, you die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrGBtcNRVdk ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Di2gMHZN4 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMJegXab7Jo - You try to retreat to the ledge when Mario has FLUDD, you die
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zic81VxUyrw - Mario can force you into an edgeguarding situation from quite a ways away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVAmHal0FIY ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVbWAWCtL74 - forces people into bad situations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeTEleMAOuA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quh***Sttiw - the best shoryuken punisher in the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBYtNY21D8 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UflXJ2nDeds - Forced Falcon to miss the edge, falls to his death; KO'd him for just using Side B

This is only 2 weeks into the game, and nowhere close to every single time I've used FLUDD effectively. Sorry if I repeated something. I just had so many times where FLUDD was useful that I lost track.

Well, now that FLUDD is so much better poor Doc is gonna start wishing he had one of his own.

 

[Anragon]

Doc's tornado feels only terrible in 3DS because of how hard button mashing is. And you can't customize your controls (like in Brawl ) so you can't have a "double" B button to make things easier (for example : replace Jump by Special on Y button so you can mash B and Y for the Tornado).

And FLUDD is godlike in good hands. Don't underestimate it.

 

[Quillion]

The foolishness is sickening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdkmR1CdELA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Ak2uw3M_o ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LInt9YZRpFQ ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp14n6rx9cY ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qEolQep97k ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJH_G5R-UnA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6eSdJAObqw ; - FLUDD hits your Up B or Side B, you die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrGBtcNRVdk ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Di2gMHZN4 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMJegXab7Jo - You try to retreat to the ledge when Mario has FLUDD, you die
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zic81VxUyrw - Mario can force you into an edgeguarding situation from quite a ways away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVAmHal0FIY ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVbWAWCtL74 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y_snkFUDh4 - forces people into bad situations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeTEleMAOuA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quh***Sttiw - the best shoryuken punisher in the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBYtNY21D8 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UflXJ2nDeds - Forced Falcon to miss the edge, falls to his death; KO'd him for just using Side B

This is only 2 weeks into the game, and nowhere close to every single time I've used FLUDD effectively. Sorry if I repeated something. I just had so many times where FLUDD was useful that I lost track.

Okay, it's not useless.

But it's just not fun to use, like, at all. It's like my whole opinion of , but condensed to a single move. Especially because it doesn't work on stages with walk-offs.

 

[Kisatamura]

One of the common excuses for FLUDD is that most people mainly use it for edgeguard strictly, or that it takes too long to charge up compared to the other edgeguard move (cape). I'm not going to say its a pro's tool but most people get rushed down and don't have the time to charge it, but you have to be smart using it (Thankfully those videos showed partial FLUDD usage instead of mainly using the full version). And compared to the cape, cape is much easier to use versus linear recoveries (like against Villager rocket) though FLUDD can still gimp linear recoveries as well. They're footsies like in SF, except they don't do damage. I do wish those videos showed the FLUDD on characters with uber recoveries but I can respect that these videos were made when the game came out and more techs could've been developed later on.

Also some people still think that Tornado is primarily a recovery move in this game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEPJAWotKBI
Without going in to much detail, it's startup is faster to where you can use it to punish rolls, air dodges or use it as a very random approach. It's still going to be your horizontal stall in the air, but it can be used offensively.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Doc's tornado feels only terrible in 3DS because of how hard button mashing is. And you can't customize your controls (like in Brawl ) so you can't have a "double" B button to make things easier (for example : replace Jump by Special on Y button so you can mash B and Y for the Tornado).

And FLUDD is godlike in good hands. Don't underestimate it.

Finally, a sensible post. F.L.U.D.D. is Little Mac's, Shulk's, and ironically Greninja's worst nightmare as an edgeguarding tool. Unfortunately it no longer stops any of Link's/Toon Link's projectiles (or any other projectile for that matter), which I would consider a slight nerf.

Also, Dr. Mario's Tornado has better use as a move that punishes rolls. If you aim to recover with it, the Soaring Tornado is available. For more power you could go with the Clothesline Tornado, but it's terribly slow and doesn't do much more damage-wise than the regular Tornado.

 

[StarLight42]

You can airdodge out of the charging animation, but that still takes quite some time.

In addition to edgeguarding, FLUDD is good for gaining stage control, forcing the opponent into awkward positions, whiff punishing up B's, and punishing people for retreating to the ledge, helpless or not.

I'm sorry, but FLUDD is NOT stage control. FLUDD's purpose (which it barely even serves due to being so useless) is for gimping recoveries. If FLUDD was stage control, it would damage and it would actually cover both sides of the stage, like STAGE control.

If you want an example of actual stage control, check out Toon Link's Fire Arrows shot left and right or King Dedede's back-forth bouncing spike ball toss custom move. FLUDD can only be labeled as "stage control" in the most desperate of situations.

IMO, Dr. Mario seems like he should be good, but I'm really struggling with him. He was better than Mario in Melee because most of Dr. Mario's strengths compared to Mario was based around his Melee tech such as wavedashes and the Semi-Spike Bair. I do manage to recover from high percents at times, but I imagine Mario could also make it back too. Super Jump Punch is a good out of Shield move but isn't that good of a kill move.

Unfortunatly, I agree with you here, Dr. Mario has been nerfed, but I still don't think he's as bad as regular Mario (at least with customs). You just have to use him right, Mario is admittedly a more approachable character to play than the Doc. My best advice is to consistently keep your opponents at bay with pills, I think they are definitely the superior projectile compared to fireballs as the cover more space and they can do a bit more damage depending on the case.

 

[Sir Bubbles]

Sm4sh Doc mains are delusional. The only thing they seem to care about is how bad Mario's FLUDD is.

Doc isn't better than Mario in this game, period. He was nerfed due to the physics changes, his bair not being a semi-spike, faster falling speed that makes his recovery worse, an addition to the fact that he can get comboed for days, no wave-dashing, L-canceling, crouch-canceling, none of that.

His tornado doesn't make him better, it makes him worse now that he doesn't have a reliable edgeguarding move at his disposal. His tornado is a niche move that makes his recovery as good as Mario's. Stop acting like your beloved tornado will be his saving grace.

 

[Fairycancel]

I'm sorry, but FLUDD is NOT stage control. FLUDD's purpose (which it barely even serves due to being so useless) is for gimping recoveries. If FLUDD was stage control, it would damage and it would actually cover both sides of the stage, like STAGE control.

If you want an example of actual stage control, check out Toon Link's Fire Arrows shot left and right or King Dedede's back-forth bouncing spike ball toss custom move. FLUDD can only be labeled as "stage control" in the most desperate of situations.



Unfortunatly, I agree with you here, Dr. Mario has been nerfed, but I still don't think he's as bad as regular Mario (at least with customs). You just have to use him right, Mario is admittedly a more approachable character to play than the Doc. My best advice is to consistently keep your opponents at bay with pills, I think they are definitely the superior projectile compared to fireballs as the cover more space and they can do a bit more damage depending on the case.

You know, you sound so obnoxious most of the time.

 

[Quillion]

Sm4sh Doc mains are delusional. The only thing they seem to care about is how bad Mario's FLUDD is.

Doc isn't better than Mario in this game, period. He was nerfed due to the physics changes, his bair not being a semi-spike, faster falling speed that makes his recovery worse, an addition to the fact that he can get comboed for days, no wave-dashing, L-canceling, crouch-canceling, none of that.

His tornado doesn't make him better, it makes him worse now that he doesn't have a reliable edgeguarding move at his disposal. His tornado is a niche move that makes his recovery as good as Mario's. Stop acting like your beloved tornado will be his saving grace.

Which is why I wish was actually MORE like like is to or is to .

He'd be a pure tornado option for those who liked that move more than FLUDD.

 

[Prawn]

Sm4sh Doc mains are delusional. The only thing they seem to care about is how bad Mario's FLUDD is.

Doc isn't better than Mario in this game, period. He was nerfed due to the physics changes, his bair not being a semi-spike, faster falling speed that makes his recovery worse, an addition to the fact that he can get comboed for days, no wave-dashing, L-canceling, crouch-canceling, none of that.

His tornado doesn't make him better, it makes him worse now that he doesn't have a reliable edgeguarding move at his disposal. His tornado is a niche move that makes his recovery as good as Mario's. Stop acting like your beloved tornado will be his saving grace.

Yr wrong

Doc > mario.


Mario is just easier and more accessible.

 

[Quillion]

Yr wrong

Doc > mario.


Mario is just easier and more accessible.

Actually is easier and more accessible than . 's weak attacks but high combo potential makes him more difficult but ultimately better than, while focuses on singular strong hits, which isn't quite as good as 's combos.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Sm4sh Doc mains are delusional. The only thing they seem to care about is how bad Mario's FLUDD is.

Doc isn't better than Mario in this game, period. He was nerfed due to the physics changes, his bair not being a semi-spike, faster falling speed that makes his recovery worse, an addition to the fact that he can get comboed for days, no wave-dashing, L-canceling, crouch-canceling, none of that.

His tornado doesn't make him better, it makes him worse now that he doesn't have a reliable edgeguarding move at his disposal. His tornado is a niche move that makes his recovery as good as Mario's. Stop acting like your beloved tornado will be his saving grace.

I'm not even gonna talk about the tornado, I'm going to simply say that Doc > Mario applies in a few matchups, and vice versa in others.

Doc is better in matchups where the enemy HAS to approach you, like, absolutely HAS to. Spacing matchups are also a plus for Doc because his Bair and his shorthop are much better than Mario's. Adding to his good options on the defense is an amazing OoS punish that can kill on the edges and at least force an offstage situation.

Tornado might be better or worse than Mario's recovery and I say this because we can't mash B properly yet. Once people can remap buttons perfectly and mash better, we can actually explore tornado's potential. As of RIGHT NOW however, yeah it's bad. At least Doc can walljump like Mario now though, so that's an improvement!

Bair not semi-spiking doesn't magically make it bad. Better KB growth and better damage make it a much better move period, and that's his reliable edgeguard tool because of this. Doc Tornado actually has utility in beating out moves moreso than it does in recovery, and since SDI is nerfed, it can actually do its job in hitting people all the way with decent KB at the end.

As far as Doc getting combo'd for days, it's about the same as Mario. Both of them have a Nair that can break combos, but Doc has something better than that for it. Up+B. It's basically his own version of the Dolphin Slash, really. His faster falling speed doesn't help with him getting combo'd but combos are also not that big in this game to begin with, most of them are at low %s and stop at the mid-way due to the KB, so really, sort of a side note.

While I do agree that Doc is overall worse than Mario and nerfed, in no way is he useless, and the exaggeration of his nerfs and other tools heavily bothers me. People are approaching him like he's supposed to be a better Mario when he's really NOT in this game. Doc is about more defensive options and a more rewarding punish game, and while he can go on the offensive when he gets in, it's tougher for him that way.

For the record, in the long term I totally agree, Mario > Doc overall, but it's important to note that they cover much different bases and are functionally different on so many levels that I've honestly stopped trying to compare them like they're supposed to be played the same.

 

[JipC]

I'm kind of disappointed that his bair and uptilt are more like Mario's now actually

 

[BSP]

I'm sorry, but FLUDD is NOT stage control. FLUDD's purpose (which it barely even serves due to being so useless) is for gimping recoveries. If FLUDD was stage control, it would damage and it would actually cover both sides of the stage, like STAGE control.

If you want an example of actual stage control, check out Toon Link's Fire Arrows shot left and right or King Dedede's back-forth bouncing spike ball toss custom move. FLUDD can only be labeled as "stage control" in the most desperate of situations.

I said gaining stage control. Of course you can't control the stage with FLUDD alone, but pushing campers past the ledge gives Mario a free approach and puts them on ledge or coming at Mario double jump less.

FLUDD has more purposes than just gimping. Just keep on ignoring the whiff punish use.

 

[Sir Bubbles]

I'm not even gonna talk about the tornado, I'm going to simply say that Doc > Mario applies in a few matchups, and vice versa in others.

Doc is better in matchups where the enemy HAS to approach you, like, absolutely HAS to. Spacing matchups are also a plus for Doc because his Bair and his shorthop are much better than Mario's. Adding to his good options on the defense is an amazing OoS punish that can kill on the edges and at least force an offstage situation.

Tornado might be better or worse than Mario's recovery and I say this because we can't mash B properly yet. Once people can remap buttons perfectly and mash better, we can actually explore tornado's potential. As of RIGHT NOW however, yeah it's bad. At least Doc can walljump like Mario now though, so that's an improvement!

Bair not semi-spiking doesn't magically make it bad. Better KB growth and better damage make it a much better move period, and that's his reliable edgeguard tool because of this. Doc Tornado actually has utility in beating out moves moreso than it does in recovery, and since SDI is nerfed, it can actually do its job in hitting people all the way with decent KB at the end.

As far as Doc getting combo'd for days, it's about the same as Mario. Both of them have a Nair that can break combos, but Doc has something better than that for it. Up+B. It's basically his own version of the Dolphin Slash, really. His faster falling speed doesn't help with him getting combo'd but combos are also not that big in this game to begin with, most of them are at low %s and stop at the mid-way due to the KB, so really, sort of a side note.

While I do agree that Doc is overall worse than Mario and nerfed, in no way is he useless, and the exaggeration of his nerfs and other tools heavily bothers me. People are approaching him like he's supposed to be a better Mario when he's really NOT in this game. Doc is about more defensive options and a more rewarding punish game, and while he can go on the offensive when he gets in, it's tougher for him that way.

For the record, in the long term I totally agree, Mario > Doc overall, but it's important to note that they cover much different bases and are functionally different on so many levels that I've honestly stopped trying to compare them like they're supposed to be played the same.

Those are all great and valid points, and I'm glad that there's actually a Doc main that doesn't take the piss out of Mario mains.

I just wanted to make the point that the tornado, the move that everybody is praising the day that he was confirmed just isn't as solid as most make it out to be. The only reason why I compared them as if they were the same is because of how other ignorant Doc mains make them sound the same, only that the tornado supposedly makes him much better.

 

[M@v]

People saying doc isn't as good of a comboer? Am I sure I'm playing the same character as you guys? He basically has the same combos as mario, with the added ability to use down b as an approach/comboer as well. Not to mention how many kill moves he has (All his smashes, Up B, Fair, Bair at high percents, backthrow)

 

[TTTTTsd]

Those are all great and valid points, and I'm glad that there's actually a Doc main that doesn't take the piss out of Mario mains.

As someone that plays both Doc and Mario it felt like a necessary post to make.

They're very different characters and it's awesome that it ended up like this. It's like an EX mode for Mario now, where you actually have to approach playing Doc way differently than you'd play, say, normal Mario. Quite fun.

 

[Kisatamura]

It's mostly the down throw that causes the misconception that Doc can't combo.

 

[Shog]

Dr Mario has one huge advantage: If Custom Moves are allowed, Dr. Mario Recovery Tornado combined with Explosion jump leaves him with good recovery options.