Diddy Kong nerfed?

[Sherbet]

Why is Diddy's side-b so bad now? It wasn't even that good. Thoughts?

 

[AbstractLogic]

I feel like the multiple hit dash attack, the new glide toss length really helped him out to where I would lean towards him being buffed. The side-B always felt way too silly to me. Honestly it feels more like the brawl side-b with some added benefits.

 

[Sherbet]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt the glide toss a vbrawl tech that used b-sticking? Or do you mean just wavedashing into throwing a peel?

 

[Mr.Pickle]

You can go the same distance as before, you just have to make a smash input to get the original distance. So now you have 2 different lengths it can travel, how is that a nerf?

 

[AbstractLogic]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt the glide toss a vbrawl tech that used b-sticking? Or do you mean just wavedashing into throwing a peel?

Glide tossing was just cancelling a roll animation with an item throw. Try say rolling backwards and throwing an item upwards. all chars have one. Diddy's seems to be back at that sweetspot distance wise

 

[Arcalyth]

Everyone is so quick to call out "nerfs."

 

[leelue]

It wasn't even that good. Thoughts?

This

was an outright lie

 

[SpiderMad]

<Eli>: also mad, i already know how to up b
<Mad}>: u so owe me those leelue pesos once it's nerfed
<MaxThunder>: probavbly him posting stuff he's drawn for people to look at but for example refusing to listen to any song i make...
<Mad}>: and as Leelue pesos they are very flexible currency, like they can be used as shout-outs instead
<Eli>: dude there is no reason to nerf diddy kong
<Eli>: he's a greatly designed character
<Mad}>: maybe there isn't, but he'll get it anyways -Ike
<Eli>: if you're somebody who is winning by spamming up-b with Diddy Kong and doing well, that's due to your opponents' inexperience
<Mad}>: ppl also complain about side-b
<Eli>: that's funny

I look forward to playing the final 2.6 and being disappointed and angry (in which case I'll demand my trophy) or unexpectedly joyed

In other words he got Ike'd, where can I get my trophy for enduring this twice now lol

I demand my Pesos and Trophy. They shall be fulfilled through one of the following

• $2 sent to my Paypal [Spidermad@outlook.com]
• One of Oro's action figures (I don't know if he owns any action figures but he probably does)
• Getting my Yellow dice back under my Smashboard's account (idk what they even were but they were cool and they randomly tookem away)
• Magus answers my random smash questions for a week through Skype/IRC ("Is it possible to code DACUS to be easier?")
• One of the PMBR video editors to make me a cool moving video introduction to put at the beginning of my Youtube videos (something that looks like Castlevania style, and says SpiderMad or something)
• Someone to record 4 replays for me in above average quality

 

[kiw1]

i prepare for a "better nerf diddy kong" meme, because this patch was just a bad joke for diddy players.

- they couldve changed the side-b differently, the timing for the sibe-b is ridicilous strict, plus i haven't found any use of the shortage anyway
- the dashattack is worse, it got more lag, it doesn't combo on stage anymore (but gladly offstage, where you won't get your opponents anyway)

i will play him again if he finally gets some kind of buff, his actual state is pathetic

 

[AbstractLogic]

i prepare for a "better nerf diddy kong" meme, because this patch was just a bad joke for diddy players.

- they couldve changed the side-b differently, the timing for the sibe-b is ridicilous strict, plus i haven't found any use of the shortage anyway
- the dashattack is worse, it got more lag, it doesn't combo on stage anymore (but gladly offstage, where you won't get your opponents anyway)

i will play him again if he finally gets some kind of buff, his actual state is pathetic

I couldn't disagree more.

With the changes made to Diddy in 2.6 I'd venture to say he was buffed. He has more reliable kill setups than he did in the previous iteration along with having a dash attack that isn't so one dimensional. Crouch cancelling gave Diddy problems in the the past, but he can manage that with his new dash attack. The side B now has different utilities for different ranges and therefore has to be used intelligently. Not to mention with the addition of being able to AGT out of the Side-B jump he now has a VERY effective combo starter/kill setup. His U-air now combos off almost virtually any aerial which seems to be overlooked. I think the biggest buff people miss for some reason is that the bananas are actually beneficial to his game in this release. At the end of the day it's apparent that Diddy is now better at doing what he tried to do in 2.5b. I understand why someone would be initally upset, but if your idea of a good character was spammable B-moves with a dash attack that auto comboed into almost anything then maybe you should look at another character.

 

[Soft Serve]

The only thing that i dislike is that the window to do the side-b attack is very short, you cant decide halfway through the air if you want to kick.

Everything else I'd consider a buff or at the very least an expansion of his options.

 

[kiw1]

the thing is you don't get any up-air hits against good players because you dont have anything to approach with, and diddy's upair is clearly something to hit with if u get a lucky nair hit or something, i mean you can do bair to up-air which is a) really hard to do b) really hard to space if the opponent is shielding, so its not worth the commitment

all you can do with diddy right now is spam bananas and get grabs, but guess what.. u cant combo with his grabs so gg wp

and the dash attack is a nerf, i never used it to approach i used to catch people after landing, which is now useless because you can asdi so easy now that you won't get anything from it... approaching with dashattack was never an option lol

 

[Strong Badam]

The only thing that i dislike is that the window to do the side-b attack is very short, you cant decide halfway through the air if you want to kick.

It's almost as if the move encourages some level of commitment now.

 

[ELI-mination]

<Eli>: also mad, i already know how to up b
<Mad}>: u so owe me those leelue pesos once it's nerfed
<MaxThunder>: probavbly him posting stuff he's drawn for people to look at but for example refusing to listen to any song i make...
<Mad}>: and as Leelue pesos they are very flexible currency, like they can be used as shout-outs instead
<Eli>: dude there is no reason to nerf diddy kong
<Eli>: he's a greatly designed character
<Mad}>: maybe there isn't, but he'll get it anyways -Ike
<Eli>: if you're somebody who is winning by spamming up-b with Diddy Kong and doing well, that's due to your opponents' inexperience
<Mad}>: ppl also complain about side-b
<Eli>: that's funny

I demand my Pesos and Trophy. They shall be fulfilled through one of the following

• $2 sent to my Paypal [Spidermad@outlook.com]
• One of Oro's action figures (I don't know if he owns any action figures but he probably does)
• Getting my Yellow dice back under my Smashboard's account (idk what they even were but they were cool and they randomly tookem away)
• Magus answers my random smash questions for a week through Skype/IRC ("Is it possible to code DACUS to be easier?")
• One of the PMBR video editors to make me a cool moving video introduction to put at the beginning of my Youtube videos (something that looks like Castlevania style, and says SpiderMad or something)
• Someone to record 4 replays for me in above average quality

I do not consider Diddy Kong's changes as "nerfs"
The changes are simply a result of a more perfected design

Side-b doesn't go as far? Well you can alter the distance with a smash input now. The kick was and always has been garbage regardless, the only difference is that an element of thought accompanies the move as you make a decision on whether to kick or grab. Not randomly throwing out the move and deciding last second which is convenient. Also, I like being able to trick my opponent as to whether or not I will travel a short or far distance with my side-b.

There's a pretty big difference between what should be allowed in terms of design while spacies exist in their current form and what should be allowed in design according to good design in general. For example, Fox's landing lag on his up-b is actually currently less landing lag than 2.5 Diddy's up-b landing lag. Fox might not travel as far but he has a lot more control over it, can follow it up with a kill much more easily, its easier to sweetspot, and still goes incredibly far. So before we discuss "good design", we should address the REAL problems with the game before flipping out about Diddy Kong.

 

[AbstractLogic]

It's almost as if the move encourages some level of commitment now.

It would be the same if Wario's Side-B could be cancelled into a grab at will when you see someone shield. I completely agree.

I do not consider Diddy Kong's changes as "nerfs"
The changes are simply a result of a more perfected design

Side-b doesn't go as far? Well you can alter the distance with a smash input now. The kick was and always has been garbage regardless, the only difference is that an element of thought accompanies the move as you make a decision on whether to kick or grab. Not randomly throwing out the move and deciding last second which is convenient. Also, I like being able to trick my opponent as to whether or not I will travel a short or far distance with my side-b.

There's a pretty big difference between what should be allowed in terms of design while spacies exist in their current form and what should be allowed in design according to good design in general. For example, Fox's landing lag on his up-b is actually currently less landing lag than 2.5 Diddy's up-b landing lag. Fox might not travel as far but he has a lot more control over it, can follow it up with a kill much more easily, its easier to sweetspot, and still goes incredibly far. So before we discuss "good design", we should address the REAL problems with the game before flipping out about Diddy Kong.

In this release I feel way better about players not being able to rely on gimmicks (Side-B/Up-B spam) and work on Diddy's zoning options and amazing neutral game. I think if his metagame develops a bit more he could easily be in the higher section of high tier and pose a threat to many common top tiers. There is a fixation on what is "nerfed" that I feel players don't realize what a solid character they have in front of them. Their are certainly more legitimate complaints that could be made about the cast, but I think people have to start looking at the changes made to their character from the outside in.

 

[SpiderMad]

I have time to read 2.6 Eli feels 2.5 Eli was completely wrong like you do every version and all, but a deal is a deal solely regarding Up-b Mr.: those Leelue pesos are mine when the time comes to use them. And with Leelue in the BR their value has skyrocketed

 

[ELI-mination]

Nope, I've always been consistent in saying that Fox is bull**** lol
And that if he's allowed, everything else is also allowed by default
But I do recognize that when you take them out of the equation, you still have to work out what constitutes good game design, and not everything is fair game

 

[SpiderMad]

Nope, I've always been consistent in saying that Fox is bull**** lol
And that if he's allowed, everything else is also allowed by default
But I do recognize that when you take them out of the equation, you still have to work out what constitutes good game design, and not everything is fair game

The deal was Up-b would get nerfed; no one would say Up-b is "better" if you had to win a game with say your house on the line.

2.6's UpB landing lag is roughly double 2.5's. Diddy also falls faster while charging mid-air; the net distance gained from a full charge is hardly much so you'll likely be using the charge as a stall or fakeout tactic when recovering.

The Grounded startup now matches the aerial version (7-frame duration) and no longer has invulnerability. The initial hit packs a bit more punch in knockback and sports a more horizontal angle but diminishes rapidly as you rocket through the air. Don't get reckless with it! ​

​

How about giving them from Friendship, which is what the Leelue pesos are worth anyway ​

 

[Problem2]

There's a pretty big difference between what should be allowed in terms of design while spacies exist in their current form and what should be allowed in design according to good design in general. For example, Fox's landing lag on his up-b is actually currently less landing lag than 2.5 Diddy's up-b landing lag. Fox might not travel as far but he has a lot more control over it, can follow it up with a kill much more easily, its easier to sweetspot, and still goes incredibly far. So before we discuss "good design", we should address the REAL problems with the game before flipping out about Diddy Kong.

Fire Fox has a set start-up time and set distance he must travel (unless he sweet spots the ledge). Once fired in a direction, Fox cannot alter his direction at all until he starts falling. The landing part isn't designed to be the part you punish. You get a huge change to punish the start-up, a decent change to guess and punish the direction, and a small chance to punish him free falling.

Oh, and Fire Fox does not work as a reversal because it doesn't have invincibility on start-up.

 

[ELI-mination]

Fire Fox has a set start-up time and set distance he must travel (unless he sweet spots the ledge). Once fired in a direction, Fox cannot alter his direction at all until he starts falling. The landing part isn't designed to be the part you punish. You get a huge change to punish the start-up, a decent change to guess and punish the direction, and a small chance to punish him free falling.

Oh, and Fire Fox does not work as a reversal because it doesn't have invincibility on start-up.

2.5 Diddy Kong was still a lot easier to edgeguard than Fox regardless. He was a larger and slower moving target; that's all that matters.
And the ridiculousness of how fast Fox is combined with the 3 frames of landing lag combined with the fact that he can kill you immediately after landing with an upsmash or something speaks volumes to his bad design, a design far far far far far far far far far far far more comically worse than 2.5 Diddy Kong ever even came close to in any capacity.

 

[AbstractLogic]

But the rogue barrels have homing technology in Project M. They protect their master.

 

[ELI-mination]

dat avatar tho

 

[AbstractLogic]

Komrade Kong approves. The Idea of Kongmunism needs to breach P:M because Diddy players are a rare and dying breed.

 

[Problem2]

You get a like for saying "Kongmunism".

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I created that phrase, just saying.

Oh DDK.
Why you so bad

 

[AbstractLogic]

I created that phrase, just saying.

Oh DDK.
Why you so bad

DDK has always been low tier Disqo... Even in the brawl days.

 

[Oracle]

Disqo you up b'ed sethlon one too many times and ruined it for all of us