Important Diddy Grab Immunity Glitch 1.1.1

[ぱみゅ]

Sneaking in to add that I'm not boarding that boat and call this meta-shifting.

It's really obnoxious but manageable, nothing would change in the big scheme of the metagame.

I predict it will be patched out without any unavoidable eventuality in the meantime.

 

[Shaya]

On feelings only, I'm mixed between it being temporarily banned or letting it slide.
It is a glitch that's "game breaking" and does not have infrequent or easily avoided triggers.
Losing a character for a period of time is not bizarre or unfair by my perspective in the slightest though.

I think enough has been said that insinuates it can be played around with adaption and likely not heavily alter match up ratios or the like in a degenerative way.
But it's still changing match ups in an unexpected or perhaps incidental game deciding ways.

I would probably personally recommend TOs that any event they're running this weekend (or in the coming days) should have him banned.

 

[Gamesfreak13563]

I would probably personally recommend TOs that any event they're running this weekend (or in the coming days) should have him banned.

I'd allow him only if there was a gentleman's agreement for it. Just make sure both parties know what's going on.

 

[Pazx]

This list is incomplete but worth checking out: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3n7cs3/complete_lists_of_moves_that_trigger_the_diddy/

 

[CSWooly]

This community has already banned 3 characters because they don't want to deal with them, so I could very well see it happening to Diddy too.

Who are the three may I ask? I can only think of Meta Knight and Ice Climbers

 

[MachoCheeze]

Who are the three may I ask? I can only think of Meta Knight and Ice Climbers

Miis

 

[Ghostbone]

Had a tournament today, glitch literally didn't occur in any of the games Diddy was used in. (31 man tournament and two diddy mains)

This isn't an actual issue guys, at least one that's tournament banworthy. (like can we seriously stop fear mongering)

 

[Gamesfreak13563]

Had a tournament today, glitch literally didn't occur in any of the games Diddy was used in. (31 man tournament and two diddy mains)

This isn't an actual issue guys, at least one that's tournament banworthy. (like can we seriously stop fear mongering)

What would you have done if it came up?

 

[Man Li Gi]

Having a tourney Saturday and am not going to ban Diddy. The whole pause thing will cause matches to be prolonged too much if used on a large scale though, so for really big tourneys, he probs be banned.

 

[Ghostbone]

What would you have done if it came up?

Nothing
It's relatively easy to just hit diddy's shield once and the glitch is over. (and if he never shields you never need to grab + he loses an amazing defensive option)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Considering something as simple as Ike's jab combo can trigger the glitch, Diddy is spending a not insignificant amount of time each match being ungrabable. Yes you can fix it by hitting his shield again: he's going to jump back into that state nearly as easily because freaking basic jab combos can trigger it.

This is a huge deal for any character that relies on grabs a significant amount. And depending on the character Diddy is up again he can easily be spending a third of the match or more in an ungrabable state. Can't really do the "force the Diddy player to stop and let the other guy hit his shield" method if its that easy to trigger you'd be stopping once very 20-30 seconds.

I can tell you right now that the glitch did trigger during your tournament Ghostbone . It may not have been noticed but that doesn't mean it didn't happen or that its not a problem. If the Diddys were playing against keep away heavy characters or characters who don't use their grab very much of course you might not see it happen. It also heavily depends on how far they got because uh, just two Diddies is a pretty tiny sample size that's even tinier if they didn't make it out of the first round.

You can't just tell Ike/DK/Ness/Sonic/etc "just don't use your grab game when facing Diddy until this is fixed". It works the other way around, the fault lies with the character who has the glitch. Diddy needs to not be used until its fixed. It will be a week at absolute max and that's if Nintendo has a hard time figuring out where the glitch is in the coding. Diddy mains can live with having to use their secondaries for one weekend. Its not as if this is BH5 (which was already planning on not updating. I can tell you right now if they had already updated Diddy would absolutely be canned there because you don't let something that screwy have an effect on international tournaments with large amounts of money on the line).

 

[Ghostbone]

You say it's a huge deal but I doubt you've ever actually played against Diddy this patch.

Actually ****ing play the game and come back and talk to me about how you realised it hardly ever happens and is super easy to work around if it does.

And you're right, if BH5 was on this patch they'd probably ban Diddy, and it's ****ing sad that this community has these ridiculous kneejerk reactions to things with easy counterplay that a whole character would get banned. (Its happened with miis too >.>, and they're not even glitched)
Like greninja can still shadow sneak out of histun, something way way way more impactful than this Diddy glitch and I've never seen anyone call for greninja bans.

 

[Radical Larry]

This glitch is nowhere near metagame changing as one may think. Diddy Kong may be immune to grabs, but that does not mean he truly benefits from this. This actually would make it more easy to punish Diddy Kong since he can't use shield in order to keep the glitch. It's more of a risky tactic than a beneficial tactic since Diddy Kong will be easy to punish. Now if it had been a full attack-immunity glitch, Diddy Kong would definitely need a ban, but since this is a grab-only glitch, and Diddy can just be KO'd or needs to shield, then surely it's not beneficial at all since he should rely on shield.

Also, let me list the characters who definitely aren't affected by it:


Then the ones not affected by it much, but can still (possibly) activate the glitch:


Debatable In-Betweens:


The rest are still hit pretty hard by the glitch with their grab games being hurt. I added Little Mac to the secondary list only because his grab game is not really used that much, and he has far better options; plus, I'm sure Diddy would NEED to shield against any of his attacks.

Now Ganondorf is the only character who can't activate the glitch, to my knowledge, since most of his attacks (which are practical) are single hit attacks, the only double hitting one being N-Air. (I know that he has D-Smash, but if Diddy shields, he'll only be hit once in shield). Wario has D-Air as his multi-hit attack, but a practical Diddy will probably dodge. Roy has a multi-hit with the Side Special Down 4, but Roy might not use that.

The other characters below don't necessarily have anything wrong with them without their grab game, even though they may be affected by the glitch. They have far other setups, like I explained with Little Mac.

I don't see this glitch being considered broken because Diddy players, smart ones, would raise their shield instead of being combo and KO bait all the time until their stocks end. This glitch, much like Pac-Man's Trampoline glitch, isn't game-breaking in any way, and Diddy Kong is still within the A Tier (not S Tier).

Tournaments don't need to ban Diddy, because if the glitch is used, Diddy is in more trouble than you might think, since he can't raise his shield in order for the glitch to work. If an opponent goes for Diddy with an attack, a good Diddy needs to dodge or shield. I'm sorry, but this is nowhere near to ban state and TOs are overreacting with the glitch, and many other people are DEFINITELY overreacting with the glitch.

 

[dav3yb]

This glitch is nowhere near metagame changing as one may think. Diddy Kong may be immune to grabs, but that does not mean he truly benefits from this. This actually would make it more easy to punish Diddy Kong since he can't use shield in order to keep the glitch. It's more of a risky tactic than a beneficial tactic since Diddy Kong will be easy to punish. Now if it had been a full attack-immunity glitch, Diddy Kong would definitely need a ban, but since this is a grab-only glitch, and Diddy can just be KO'd or needs to shield, then surely it's not beneficial at all since he should rely on shield.

Also, let me list the characters who definitely aren't affected by it:


Then the ones not affected by it much, but can still (possibly) activate the glitch:


Debatable In-Betweens:


The rest are still hit pretty hard by the glitch with their grab games being hurt. I added Little Mac to the secondary list only because his grab game is not really used that much, and he has far better options; plus, I'm sure Diddy would NEED to shield against any of his attacks.

Now Ganondorf is the only character who can't activate the glitch, to my knowledge, since most of his attacks (which are practical) are single hit attacks, the only double hitting one being N-Air. (I know that he has D-Smash, but if Diddy shields, he'll only be hit once in shield). Wario has D-Air as his multi-hit attack, but a practical Diddy will probably dodge. Roy has a multi-hit with the Side Special Down 4, but Roy might not use that.

The other characters below don't necessarily have anything wrong with them without their grab game, even though they may be affected by the glitch. They have far other setups, like I explained with Little Mac.

I don't see this glitch being considered broken because Diddy players, smart ones, would raise their shield instead of being combo and KO bait all the time until their stocks end. This glitch, much like Pac-Man's Trampoline glitch, isn't game-breaking in any way, and Diddy Kong is still within the A Tier (not S Tier).

Tournaments don't need to ban Diddy, because if the glitch is used, Diddy is in more trouble than you might think, since he can't raise his shield in order for the glitch to work. If an opponent goes for Diddy with an attack, a good Diddy needs to dodge or shield. I'm sorry, but this is nowhere near to ban state and TOs are overreacting with the glitch, and many other people are DEFINITELY overreacting with the glitch.

The more i test around with it, the more i think that although it CAN help diddy some, I wonder how much this would actually end up greatly effecting a SERIOUS match. Where you're not just going to do a multi-hit string and go for a lot of grabs. The diddy player is probably going to be trying to get in, and eventually shield another attack. Thinking of heavy projectile characters like Toon Link, im guessing SOMETHING will get shielded at some point before toon link goes in. I'd like to see some actual matches where this glitch happens before saying its completely game breaking.

 

[Radical Larry]

The more i test around with it, the more i think that although it CAN help diddy some, I wonder how much this would actually end up greatly effecting a SERIOUS match. Where you're not just going to do a multi-hit string and go for a lot of grabs. The diddy player is probably going to be trying to get in, and eventually shield another attack. Thinking of heavy projectile characters like Toon Link, im guessing SOMETHING will get shielded at some point before toon link goes in. I'd like to see some actual matches where this glitch happens before saying its completely game breaking.

But in any serious match, Diddy Kong would NEED to shield. If this glitch occurs, Diddy Kong is actually WORSE than he is without it on if it's used practically, since Diddy would be combo bait. It may help him against grabbing characters, but otherwise, it will give him a bad time against spacing characters and disjoints, as well as heavy hitters.

But this glitch can't be used in any serious match due to him needing to shield opponents' attacks. Simple as that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

On feelings only, I'm mixed between it being temporarily banned or letting it slide.
It is a glitch that's "game breaking" and does not have infrequent or easily avoided triggers.
Losing a character for a period of time is not bizarre or unfair by my perspective in the slightest though.

I think enough has been said that insinuates it can be played around with adaption and likely not heavily alter match up ratios or the like in a degenerative way.
But it's still changing match ups in an unexpected or perhaps incidental game deciding ways.

I would probably personally recommend TOs that any event they're running this weekend (or in the coming days) should have him banned.

Hmm, the idea is mostly from the fact we have no idea on full effects of what triggers it rather than knee jerk reaction which someone people are doing.

I like that, it's reasonable.

 

[wizrad]

Man, this glitch sucks. RIP Diddy for a bit.

 

[dav3yb]

I'm assuming we're pretty sure that Diddy Kong is the only one effected by this glitch right?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Diddy is already banned in NorCal and another area is soft banning him (Both players have to agree to allow Diddy to be used. If one says no then its no).

 

[W.A.C.]

[LINK]

Tournaments in Florida and tristate are also banning Diddy Kong. -_-

 

[Luigi player]

Grabs are there to beat the shield option.
If Diddy decides to never shield again, then the whole point of grabbing him gets kinda irrelevant.
Shouldn't be gamebreaking in the slightest. It's stupid, it should be patched out and probably will, hopefully fast.
But in the meantime, who cares. The one who makes the Diddy player able to trigger it is his opponent. And he can reset it easily, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal, because of my first two sentences. Yes I avoid the grabs usefulness besides shielding, but damn, people still make it much bigger of a deal than it actually is. A character shouldn't be banned because of that. Even if it's super likely only temporarily.
Bowser Jr. also had a desynching glitch with his clown cart. He also wasn't banned. There are many "bugs" in the game and previous games and we still played with them. Just deal with it until it's patched.

 

[dav3yb]

I rather like the soft-ban option. Opponent must agree to him being used before he's allowed. This way if an opponent wants to try and capitalize on the glitch, they can allow it. Seem's like the best compromise currently.

 

[Ghostbone]

"Soft" banning is still banning a character (i mean both players can gentleman to norfair to but we don't say that isn't banned lmao) that doesn't even move on the tier list because guess what? This glitch hardly affects actual games and anyone who actually plays with/against Diddy would have realised that by now.

Again it's ****ing depressing that various regions would ban Diddy without even testing how much the glitch affects gameplay because of all the fear mongering this community undergoes. Like man if they even picked Diddy and played like 5 games they would have been like "lol this is so easy to play around why are people so afraid of it", but instead people are lazy and just theorycraft how broken it is and get people's mains banned because of it.

 

[Browny]

I like how when Diddy is a tournament menace ruining everything for months, making the top players hate the game and outsiders laughing at super downthrow-upair bros it was all 'get better, adapt, this is the meta'.

Now he can do something which has never has and never will affect any results in a tournament, and insta-banned with 0 testing.

klol

 

[Gamesfreak13563]

Again it's ****ing depressing that various regions would ban Diddy without even testing how much the glitch affects gameplay because of all the fear mongering this community undergoes. Like man if they even picked Diddy and played like 5 games they would have been like "lol this is so easy to play around why are people so afraid of it", but instead people are lazy and just theorycraft how broken it is and get people's mains banned because of it.

Even if the glitch affects actual gameplay only occasionally, there will inevitably be few times that it will occur in tournaments around the world that will lead to a crucial missed grab they should have gotten and resulting in a win for Diddy, accidentally or not. Although the glitch may not seriously affect 99% of games, with the size of the Smash scene it's pretty much statistically guaranteed to affect a few, and it is not fair to the other competitor. Plus, in running a smooth tournament, the last thing I need would be to legitimize any sort of ambiguity about the results of a match.

You may argue that because the glitch is largely ineffective it's okay, but I disagree and say even one game decided by it taints the sportsmanship of the contest.

 

[Browny]

Although the glitch may not seriously affect 99% of games, with the size of the Smash scene it's pretty much statistically guaranteed to affect a few, and it is not fair to the other competitor

So you are saying that something that occurs 1% of the time is unfair to the other player, but its perfectly fair to ban the diddy kong player from using their main for something that occurs the exact same amount of time?

m8

 

[Gamesfreak13563]

So you are saying that something that occurs 1% of the time is unfair to the other player, but its perfectly fair to ban the diddy kong player from using their main for something that occurs the exact same amount of time?

There should not be a circumstance where the legitimacy of a match can be reasonably questioned by a competitor. It is more fair to prevent such situations from arising completely than attempting to deal with them on a case-by-case basis, where judgments can be flawed.

1% is 1% too much.

 

[Shaya]

South Australians need to stop be raging lunatics -.-

Maybe people are fear mongering, but the decision at it's core has NOTHING to do with fear mongering.
Does this glitch occur frequently without specific intent? Yes.
Could this affect a match compared to last patch? Yes.

That's it.
That's all that is needed, logically, for anyone else in a similar situation in any competitive game.

I'm still/already playing Diddy and not really ever noticing the interaction whatsoever. This is clear, and should be clear to anyone else. If this were to persist longer than expected Diddy would need to be legal as it's something we'd just have to deal with.

Any TO making this decision should be adding a time limit to the ruling.
This coming week[end] seems reasonable, the weekend after is fair but edging towards silly; anything longer (if it doesn't get removed by then) is definitely hurting the game.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

South Australians need to stop be raging lunatics -.-

Maybe people are fear mongering, but the decision at it's core has NOTHING to do with fear mongering.
Does this glitch occur frequently without specific intent? Yes.
Could this affect a match compared to last patch? Yes.

That's it.
That's all that is needed, logically, for anyone else in a similar situation in any competitive game.

I'm still/already playing Diddy and not really ever noticing the interaction whatsoever. This is clear, and should be clear to anyone else. If this were to persist longer than expected Diddy would need to be legal as it's something we'd just have to deal with.

Any TO making this decision should be adding a time limit to the ruling.
This coming week[end] seems reasonable, the weekend after is fair but edging towards silly; anything longer (if it doesn't get removed by then) is definitely hurting the game.

I think the short term ban is really pretty toxic itself. A lot of Diddy mains don't have a pocket character; why would they? You're giving a middle finger to those players with a short term ban, telling them to stay home from your events in that time. This is in general why I think banning stuff is almost always a bad idea; it always hurts the people who relied upon what you're banning way more than it helps everyone else, and it's an alienating experience in a community to have your stuff banned. I couldn't play Diddy well to save my life, but if I were a part of a local scene banning Diddy as a Diddy main, I'd feel personally affronted by this decision since it's basically saying that they value their short term convenience of not having to deal with this glitch more than my ability to participate in events.

 

[GeneralBrwni]

I don't claim to know exactly how much of an impact this will have, but it certainly means something, especially if a Diddy player is purposefully exploiting it. Don't pretend Diddy can't shield when the glitch is active, because that's wrong. It just makes him vulnerable to grabs again. So Diddy is still in possession of his full set of options. Meanwhile, the opponent, I'll use Meta Knight because he's a good example, is facing a Diddy, except, for some inexplicable reason, he has all of his options except grab. And of course, Meta Knight having many multi-hit moves, it's not unlikely that this will happen. What's worse, Meta Knight is a character who benefits a lot from his grab game, and suddenly missing that is a huge hit to him. So, now we're in a position where Meta Knight is missing one of his better tools, and if the Diddy player is keeping track, he'll know that Meta Knight is missing an option and try to convert that into an advantage. Of course there's usual mindgames, adaptation, etc., and the Meta Knight could try to play around whatever the Diddy is doing to try and exploit this, but no matter what it is still inherently unfair that this glitch steals Meta Knight's option to grab against an opponent who still has all of their options. Maybe Meta Knight doesn't whiff a grab that he would've otherwise gotten and lose a stock off of specifically that, or even take any hits at all. Maybe just the inability to grab subtly changed the dynamic of the match to be in Diddy's favor, and the game was decided based on that.

I don't know how much of an issue this is and I don't know if there is any way to know, but the people just writing this off as a kneejerk reaction or saying "well just adapt and play better with less options" or "well he can't shield so it doesn't matter" might not have thought this through thoroughly enough. This glitch isn't good for anybody, really, and I hope it gets patched out soon enough.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Dude, I play MK and I'm not convinced by your post.
I can always bait a shield with Dash Attack, Nair (which btw is ridiculously safe now), or AC'd Bair, or even Dtilt or Fsmash.
There are millions of ways to play around it.
Having your gameplan slowed down is not the end-all for any character.

 

[GeneralBrwni]

Dude, I play MK and I'm not convinced by your post.
I can always bait a shield with Dash Attack, Nair (which btw is ridiculously safe now), or AC'd Bair, or even Dtilt or Fsmash.
There are millions of ways to play around it.
Having your gameplan slowed down is not the end-all for any character.

Sure, there are ways to play around it, but if you're trying to play around not having a grab when you should, you're still at a disadvantage for no reason, at least compared to the position you'd be in if you could use your grab. Diddy can play around whatever he thinks you're gonna do, too, if he knows you're probably trying to bait out shield and he has no respect for your grab game. Heck, even if he does shield, why does he get a nearly risk-free shield every time this glitch happens? Even if the glitch doesn't make your opponent win certain exchanges, the glitch can still mess you up. What if you have the opportunity to get a lot of damage or even a stock off of a grab but the glitch is active and you have to waste the opportunity getting a few hits off, or just hitting their shield, instead?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I don't see it as a "missed opportunity" if I know is not even there to begin with. Just like getting a grab and he's not at the right percentage to get a followup.
Awareness is a powerful tool whether you are dealing with a weird glitch, an uncomfortable terrain, or a constantly shifting stage.

But instead of going into tons of theoretical specifics, I rather just say it's not unbeatable AT ALL. Barely even potent.
It's definitely obnoxious I agree though.

 

[Ghostbone]

South Australians need to stop be raging lunatics -.-

You'd probably be mad if ZSS was banned everywhere because some glitch like dair always went through shield or something was around.
Would affect games more than the current Diddy glitch and would be just as stupid to call a ban over.

Maybe people are fear mongering, but the decision at it's core has NOTHING to do with fear mongering.
Does this glitch occur frequently without specific intent? Yes.

No, again go play the game

Could this affect a match compared to last patch? Yes.

Every single change in a patch affects the match, and there are plenty of other glitches that have been in the game and never got a character banned.

I'm still/already playing Diddy and not really ever noticing the interaction whatsoever. This is clear, and should be clear to anyone else. If this were to persist longer than expected Diddy would need to be legal as it's something we'd just have to deal with.

Any TO making this decision should be adding a time limit to the ruling.
This coming week[end] seems reasonable, the weekend after is fair but edging towards silly; anything longer (if it doesn't get removed by then) is definitely hurting the game.

So you've actually played with Diddy and the situation has never arisen yet you still call for a ban?
Why is it ever justified to ban people's mains for something that won't affect the outcome of a game if both players understand it?

You know what hurts the game more than a glitch that occurs 1% of the time? Banning a WHOLE ****ING CHARACTER

I don't claim to know exactly how much of an impact this will have

So you're just a fear mongering theorycrafter, good to know.

It's pretty justified raging when people are banning something without even understanding it tbh, and plenty of people in this thread are contributing to the problem

 

[Shaya]

You'd probably be mad if ZSS was banned everywhere because some glitch like dair always went through shield or something was around.
Would affect games more than the current Diddy glitch and would be just as stupid to call a ban over.

If it wasn't an important tournament I would not care, if it was an important tournament and I knew well enough in advance I'd work something out (train up mah sheikkkkk) because it's reasonable that a glitch, likely only temporary, would restrict a character's use. If a glitch was going to last an extended period of time, then I'd argue (and fairly) that the mechanic when well known can be played around and is far from "broken" thus shouldn't result in the character's exclusion.

Just repeating "play the game" and "fear mongers, FEAR MONGERS EVERYWHERE" just gets ignored...

Maybe banning is too steep of a word, perhaps "disabling" would give of a better vibe~
People can adapt to this and it is also varying on a match up to match up basis, but I don't expect tournament goers to adapt (or know how to adapt) their game plan to a completely new "mechanic" on the day of an event (if they don't know about it in advance, what makes you think everyone who goes to an event goes on smashboards/reddit/etc?) or shortly thereafter.

 

[Ghostbone]

How is it fair to ban a character because people are too lazy to adapt?
People have to adapt to the shield changes, we don't make rules about people getting free punishes because they would have been able to get that punish on their shield before this patch.

Like somehow 5 minutes of lab time is less impactful than having to learn an entirely different character?
You don't expect people to adapt to diddy but you expect diddy players to pick up entirely new characters?

As competitive players we don't discriminate between glitches/normal techniques unless those glitches are gamebreaking.
We never banned the use of double jump recovery in Brawl, why would we ban diddy for this?

 

[CrazyPerson]

This needs a hot fix...

Part of me wants to say how in the freaking world did this get passed testing...

Part of me says I don't know enough about programming to know if they should test it or not.

My rare for glory games won't be against many Diddly until this is fixed

Or just don't be a scrub and ban people's characters because you can't be bothered dealing with them.

As things stand now, the entire grab game is useless after that technique.

How many charectesr can this be said about? This gives the term "safe on shield" a whole new meaning.

I highly doubt there are ways to adapt to this glitch... which is clearly a glitch in ways that give an even matchup.

No offense, but by this logic you can point at any character and say, "my character can't approach safely because X, please ban."

Why ban Diddy because of a small portion of the cast would have a hard time approaching when Sheik is still legal?


Both Links even, with Tink's Bombo Combos and Bomb / Boomerang kill confirms.

There is a huge difference between Diddy and Shiek.

Shiek is overpowered simply because of her intentional character design. Sakuri is keeping 4 man free for alls in mind with his balance decisions... and her offstage game is much weaker in that when there is the threat of missing an item, or someone following her and costing her a stock as well. As far as competitive rules go... terrible design...but an intentional design none the less.

Diddy is clearly glitched... there is no way a character was intentionally made immune to grabs.

If the unintentional stuff was more widespread and could be used by most/all of the cast... it may be a different story... then we have a game changing Melee type glitch that becomes part of the competitive game... this is clearly a glitch.

Hard to fault Diddy players for not allowing their shields to be broke...

But if it can be cancelled with a Bananna we have a short term fix... Diddy is required to throw his Bannanna, other player throws it back diddy trips and is allowed to get up, match continues.

How certain are you that Diddy with the glitch is overall better than Sheik as a character?

This would be a fair benchmark if it was the standard for everyone... but considering Shiek got through the patch almost untouched, Luigi got a huge nerf, my Rosaluma got nerfed... it clearly isn't, and shouldn't be applied to Diddy.

If developers aren't using it as a benchmark, don't think TOs should either.

I

think being very certain of that fact would be a necessary first step to any sort of a ban. I am pretty unconvinced; this glitch is pretty dumb and pretty strong, but Sheik's baseline quality is non-trivially higher than Diddy's and Brawl did show us that despite Ice Climbers having mechanics even more broken than this they were still not as good as Meta Knight. No one banned Brawl Ice Climbers so I'd be slow to ban this glitched Diddy; it's likely easy to overestimate how powerful this is and just imagine it makes Diddy unbeatable.

Early in smash 4's lifespan, there was a glitch that caused Peach players to randomly get banned online (since it saw her down-B as creating items in For Glory and assumed the Peach players were hackers). It was fixed in a few weeks as I recall; they were pretty quick about it. This glitch is pretty similar in severity I think. If we assume it will be fixed relatively quickly, banning would be a big mistake even if it is broken since most Diddys won't rework their games to integrate this "tech" extensively in such a short timeframe and, similarly, we'd be effectively telling everyone who mains Diddy to stay home from tournaments which isn't helping anyone get better at the game.

I would say this is more severe... but the rest of the post makes sense regardless. You are right it probably gets fixed quickly... though admittedly I have very little confidence in developers after what happened to my old main, and certain decisions made outside of balance stuff that I won't derail the thread with.

Or just don't be a scrub and ban people's characters because you can't be bothered dealing with them.

As things stand now, the entire grab game is useless after that technique.

How many charectesr can this be said about? This gives the term "safe on shield" a whole new meaning.

I highly doubt there are ways to adapt to this glitch... which is clearly a glitch in ways that give an even matchup.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So, banning it early makes sense.

Why would we ban it longer when we know what trigger it and how to play against it? Oh right smash politics.

 

[Gamesfreak13563]

I agree. If it persists too long we'll have no choice but to let it go. I have nothing against Diddy and I don't want to alienate competitors.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

If it wasn't an important tournament I would not care, if it was an important tournament and I knew well enough in advance I'd work something out (train up mah sheikkkkk) because it's reasonable that a glitch, likely only temporary, would restrict a character's use. If a glitch was going to last an extended period of time, then I'd argue (and fairly) that the mechanic when well known can be played around and is far from "broken" thus shouldn't result in the character's exclusion.

Just repeating "play the game" and "fear mongers, FEAR MONGERS EVERYWHERE" just gets ignored...

Maybe banning is too steep of a word, perhaps "disabling" would give of a better vibe~
People can adapt to this and it is also varying on a match up to match up basis, but I don't expect tournament goers to adapt (or know how to adapt) their game plan to a completely new "mechanic" on the day of an event (if they don't know about it in advance, what makes you think everyone who goes to an event goes on smashboards/reddit/etc?) or shortly thereafter.

In reality a competitor should be able to adapt to anything. What if I discovered a different glitch of similar severity and showed up to a national with the gameplan of exploiting it while revealing it to the world? Would the games I win not be legitimate wins? Would we not expect the strongest players to figure out what I'm doing while they play and adapt? Your opponent doing something you don't expect or exploiting mechanics you don't understand is in my eyes a critical part of the tournament experience. You cannot possibly know everything before you go; you have to adapt to what you see on the spot and overcome. In other fighters, stuff like this has actually happened too; it's not a hypothetical that people bring out game-warping glitches at nationals that were previously unknown.

I also don't think we can dress up the word "banning". Banning is banning, and the effects are severe and negative. For my part, I simply will not attend tournaments that ban too much stuff, and if I were surprised on the day of the tournament by a ban that affected me, I'd ask for a refund and leave (if it didn't affect me, I'd stay but allow my opponents to use whatever was wrongfully banned since I consider it a waste to play an artificial game that bans stuff that doesn't need banned). I mean really, most of us play for pride and not money, and there's no pride at all in beating someone who isn't allowed to pick their best. I'd rather lose to someone playing to their potential than beat someone who is artificially held back; the loss might help me grow as a player while the win in this case is just embarrassing. Of course, this is also why the anti-custom people blow me away; I can understand being more comfortable using a non-custom character on a personal level, but I just can't imagine my pride being able to handle telling someone they can't pick their best...