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[ranmaru]

Just discovered a new name for a hydra: (Prolly of me and Kary)

Seppicachu

 

[Evil Eye]

As a mega-atheist, I don't understand what would be pretentious about a Christian saying you'll be in their prayers at all. Like... at all. You're suffering and to them, it's the highest form of concern they can offer. Seems like a pretty kind and nice thing to say even if they're a silly bearded idolater (long live the Spaghetti Monster).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

1. I have the feeling that whenever they say that, the relevant person won't actually be in their prayers
2. It's pretentious to imply it actually helps anything. Even to Christians, they should be aware that it won't help. God doesn't accept Atheists.
3. It's arrogant to think it will help anything. God made a plan for the world, right? He won't change that just for your little prayer. If everyone who prayed could change God's divine plan, then **** would hit the fan within seconds.

 

[Raziek]

3. It's arrogant to think it will help anything. God made a plan for the world, right? He won't change that just for your little prayer. If everyone who prayed could change God's divine plan, then **** would hit the fan within seconds.

This reminds me of a fantastic George Carlin special.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

1. I have the feeling that whenever they say that, the relevant person won't actually be in their prayers
2. It's pretentious to imply it actually helps anything. Even to Christians, they should be aware that it won't help. God doesn't accept Atheists.
3. It's arrogant to think it will help anything. God made a plan for the world, right? He won't change that just for your little prayer. If everyone who prayed could change God's divine plan, then **** would hit the fan within seconds.

It's funny: atheists seem to have a more concrete view in mind of what the Christan God would be if he did exist, than people who believe ever seem to.

 

[Killstic]

It's funny: atheists seem to have a more concrete view in mind of what the Christan God would be if he did exist, than people who believe ever seem to.

 

[ranmaru]

looooooooooooool

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

 

[ranmaru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWRhnYgWcc

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

1. I have the feeling that whenever they say that, the relevant person won't actually be in their prayers
2. It's pretentious to imply it actually helps anything. Even to Christians, they should be aware that it won't help. God doesn't accept Atheists.
3. It's arrogant to think it will help anything. God made a plan for the world, right? He won't change that just for your little prayer. If everyone who prayed could change God's divine plan, then **** would hit the fan within seconds.

2. As a Christian that is incorrect to presume. It may be true that in the catholic faith (and maybe more) believe that very thing. But to group all Christians (Those who believe in Christ) into that, is wrong. For example; In my faith God loves everyone and anyone, even the sinners and the non believers.

3. True that God's plan is unknown to man, but that doesn't mean that man doesn't have any say in it. He gave us free will for a reason. That in itself means that anything can happen regardless of planning. Although I have no idea how his omnipotence works I'm going to imagine that it works kind of how he knows each and every possible outcome and plans for the best with the most likely way possible. For example; say I give you a choice between a lolipop and a dirty diaper. Most likely you'll choose the lolipop, but there's still the chance that you may pick the diaper. And maybe it was in god's plan for people to pray for Soup's family, as said before no one knows.

Just for the record I don't want to start a debate. Just correcting something I found wrong.

 

[Xivii]

Ramses, to answer your question, yes it's pretty common. It's pretty much just a way of saying "I feel for you". In my opinion, just that in itself is a simple form of prayer. That is, that act of stating desire for one's situation to improve is, in itself, prayer. One not need be religious for this. I could perhaps agree with circus that it might be a dishonest use of language for one who identifies as atheist. Though this may not be entirely true as there are some atheists who do not believe God is necessary for prayer. In general I believe that the phrase is used among theists and people who would identify as agnostic if you were to ask them their belief in God.


I could see where you are coming from in thinking it be used solely among the religiously pretentious, but I assure you the phrasing has become quite secular.

-----

Now on another note:

1. I have the feeling that whenever they say that, the relevant person won't actually be in their prayers
2. It's pretentious to imply it actually helps anything. Even to Christians, they should be aware that it won't help. God doesn't accept Atheists.
3. It's arrogant to think it will help anything. God made a plan for the world, right? He won't change that just for your little prayer. If everyone who prayed could change God's divine plan, then **** would hit the fan within seconds.

These are some pretty darn weird assumptions, mainly the generalization of it.

1. This is likely true for many (as explained above). Though it's not to say it applies to everyone. I personally do pray for those I say I make mental note to do so for.
2. As Seph said I don't really think this is the most held belief among Christians.
3. Hard Determinism vs Soft Determinism. Hard determinists believe that we are simply characters in a book that have no choice in what we do at all. Soft dertminists believe that God simply lives on another time plane and that Free Will is his greatest, most important gift to man. An analogy I like to use is that of an observer from the center of a black hole. From the observer's perspective, everything outside the black whole is moving at incredible speed. He will see lifetimes pass before him while he hardly ages at all. He will see everything you do in life in an instant from his perspective, but from your perspective things move as normal. But just because he sees things at a much faster rate, that in no way implies that you didn't make any of the choices you did in your lifetime and that from moment to moment your decisions do not matter. He just see's you make those choices faster than you do. So in God's case, from the soft determinist point of view, the rate he views the universe is not just fast but infinite. And just because from his perspective he see's you pray before you make that decision from your perspective it does not mean that making the decision does not matter in that moment. So yeah you're making the assumption that all Christians are Hard Determinists which isn't the case.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm catholic but not really that religious so I don't really say it cuz it doesn't really reflect me. I wouldn't actually pray, I wouldn't want to lie you know. If I started praying more then maybe I'd say it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It's funny: atheists seem to have a more concrete view in mind of what the Christan God would be if he did exist, than people who believe ever seem to.

I'm not an atheist though. I'll reply to the rest later but I'm sort of busy atm, but I do have questions.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

OH HO OH OH HO

oh **** oh **** oh ****

Am I actually in TIME for a religious debate on Dgames social?! Every time one of these things happen I see it just as it dies out. =D

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

This reminds me of a fantastic George Carlin special.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure that's where Xonar was getting that paragraph from.

Just for the record I don't want to start a debate. Just correcting something I found wrong.

Ugh, lame.

 

[Circus]

I believe the S.S. Religious Discussion may have sailed away by now. What you're experiencing could be its wake.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

3. Hard Determinism vs Soft Determinism. Hard determinists believe that we are simply characters in a book that have no choice in what we do at all. Soft dertminists believe that God simply lives on another time plane and that Free Will is his greatest, most important gift to man. An analogy I like to use is that of an observer from the center of a black hole. From the observer's perspective, everything outside the black whole is moving at incredible speed. He will see lifetimes pass before him while he hardly ages at all. He will see everything you do in life in an instant from his perspective, but from your perspective things move as normal. But just because he sees things at a much faster rate, that in no way implies that you didn't make any of the choices you did in your lifetime and that from moment to moment your decisions do not matter. He just see's you make those choices faster than you do. So in God's case, from the soft determinist point of view, the rate he views the universe is not just fast but infinite. And just because from his perspective he see's you pray before you make that decision from your perspective it does not mean that making the decision does not matter in that moment. So yeah you're making the assumption that all Christians are Hard Determinists which isn't the case.

Yeah I've thought about this justification for free will with God to. The way I like to think about it is that there are several dimensions of existence, and that if both God and free will exists then what could be going on is that God exists on the highest dimension above all other dimensions. A lower dimension being can not comprehend a higher dimension object/being, but instead only see the "impression" that something in a higher dimension makes on their dimension. For example, a hypothetical tesseract (four dimensional cube). Us third dimensional beings simply could not perceive it, but we could see the surreal impression it would leave if it entered into our plane of existence.

Furthermore, a higher dimension being can observe everything in a lower dimension, and alter it. It's like how us third dimension beings can see everything that goes on in a 2D picture (which is I know is actually three dimensions itself, just go along with the hypothetical for the sake of the argument) and alter it. So I could imagine that a being could exist in the "highest" dimension where it could see and alter everything in the lower dimensions. To us, we couldn't comprehend it, and to it it would see everything. To us, "free will" exists, but to it, everything would appear set in place.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I believe the S.S. Religious Discussion may have sailed away by now. What you're experiencing could be its wake.

Then I'll tug it back in. I WILL insert my opinions, and HOPEFULLY someone will be offended by them.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Also for the record while I'm talking about free will I'll like to insert that I don't believe free will truly exist. If it does exist, then I think it's severely limited. There are too many variables that are beyond our control that affect (or effect? I think it's affect) the choices we make in life for us to say that we truly have control over them. I actually believe what limits our free will most of all is our personalities. We can't say that we're truly free to make choice when what we like, dislike, our past experiences, ect. influence what we do and choose. While I'm not religious, I actually kind of dig Buddhism for the reason that one of it's principle tenets is that to achieve enlightenment one must drop their ego.

EDIT: To clarify, when I say "to reach enlightenment one must drop their ego," I'm not referring to stopping pompous behavior and replacing it with "humble" behavior, but rather I refer to the ego as our personalities. One must get rid of the notion of who they THINK they are in order to cut out all limitation.

But now I'm thinking that's not actually a good world to live in. A world void of personality would be bland. You might as well be dead, because at that point what is the point of living?

I'm reminded of Mithos and his "ideal" world of "lifeless beings."

And now I want to play through ToS again.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

theres a rerelease of ToS coming out

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Tales general?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't see why praying for the good fortune of others is a bad thing.

It's hope.

Am I the only agnostic guy here?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Those are the HD rerelease of tales of symphonia 1&2.

PS3 versions I think so idk voices.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

2. As a Christian that is incorrect to presume. It may be true that in the catholic faith (and maybe more) believe that very thing. But to group all Christians (Those who believe in Christ) into that, is wrong. For example; In my faith God loves everyone and anyone, even the sinners and the non believers.

That does make me wonder, what part of christians follow the vatican?
That said, it's a generalization, but the part I'm talking about is the majority.

3. True that God's plan is unknown to man, but that doesn't mean that man doesn't have any say in it. He gave us free will for a reason. That in itself means that anything can happen regardless of planning. Although I have no idea how his omnipotence works I'm going to imagine that it works kind of how he knows each and every possible outcome and plans for the best with the most likely way possible. For example; say I give you a choice between a lolipop and a dirty diaper. Most likely you'll choose the lolipop, but there's still the chance that you may pick the diaper. And maybe it was in god's plan for people to pray for Soup's family, as said before no one knows.

God gave us free will? While that's true, it's Satan who gave us the knowledge to actually do something with it, right? What does free will mean if you have no idea of what's right and what's wrong? Why did he make a plan only to give us the free will to screw it up, especially when he didn't give us the moral compass to make the right decisions?

Legit questions, btw. Interested in your view on this.

Ramses, to answer your question, yes it's pretty common. It's pretty much just a way of saying "I feel for you". In my opinion, just that in itself is a simple form of prayer. That is, that act of stating desire for one's situation to improve is, in itself, prayer. One not need be religious for this. I could perhaps agree with circus that it might be a dishonest use of language for one who identifies as atheist. Though this may not be entirely true as there are some atheists who do not believe God is necessary for prayer. In general I believe that the phrase is used among theists and people who would identify as agnostic if you were to ask them their belief in God.

I guess it's intent that counts, huh?

3. Hard Determinism vs Soft Determinism. Hard determinists believe that we are simply characters in a book that have no choice in what we do at all. Soft dertminists believe that God simply lives on another time plane and that Free Will is his greatest, most important gift to man. An analogy I like to use is that of an observer from the center of a black hole. From the observer's perspective, everything outside the black whole is moving at incredible speed. He will see lifetimes pass before him while he hardly ages at all. He will see everything you do in life in an instant from his perspective, but from your perspective things move as normal. But just because he sees things at a much faster rate, that in no way implies that you didn't make any of the choices you did in your lifetime and that from moment to moment your decisions do not matter. He just see's you make those choices faster than you do. So in God's case, from the soft determinist point of view, the rate he views the universe is not just fast but infinite. And just because from his perspective he see's you pray before you make that decision from your perspective it does not mean that making the decision does not matter in that moment. So yeah you're making the assumption that all Christians are Hard Determinists which isn't the case.

That's kind of irrelevant in the face of the contradiction between a plan and the influence of prayer. Though it wasn't a terrible read.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

theres a rerelease of ToS coming out

Those are the HD rerelease of tales of symphonia 1&2.

PS3 versions I think so idk voices.

arent you helpful

I don't see why praying for the good fortune of others is a bad thing.

It's hope.

Am I the only agnostic guy here?

not saying it's a bad thing but hey keep wasting my time with these posts

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why are you even arguing in the first place? You come off more pretentious if you're arguing to argue?

PS3 gets new hyogis(spelling?).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

lmaoooooooo i have no face

im arguing? about? are you sure youre wired correctly up there?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Whatever dude.

 

[Raziek]

Ramses, eat a Snickers.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

That does make me wonder, what part of christians follow the vatican?
That said, it's a generalization, but the part I'm talking about is the majority

That's the Catholic Faith.

God gave us free will? While that's true, it's Satan who gave us the knowledge to actually do something with it, right? What does free will mean if you have no idea of what's right and what's wrong? Why did he make a plan only to give us the free will to screw it up, especially when he didn't give us the moral compass to make the right decisions?

Legit questions, btw. Interested in your view on this.

But he did give us a moral compass. The fruit Adam ate was the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Why else would Adam hide himself as he was naked in the sight of God? If you're asking why everyone has their own set of morals and standards, it's because we all are born differently and raised differently, but even in difference we understand the simple things like that stealing is wrong as well as doing harm unto others. Although some decide to go against those feelings for their own gain, they are still there and real regardless of how suppressed they might be.

The plan needs free will to be in effect as it incorporates it into the plan. They are the same as you cannot have one without the other. Why else would he sacrifice his only begotten son? To redeem our transgressions that we've made through our right of free will.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I thought this was something only pretentious christians did D:

you were wrong

now go read some philosophy of religion or something

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

But he did give us a moral compass. The fruit Adam ate was the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Why else would Adam hide himself as he was naked in the sight of God? If you're asking why everyone has their own set of morals and standards, it's because we all are born differently and raised differently, but even in difference we understand the simple things like that stealing is wrong as well as doing harm unto others. Although some decide to go against those feelings for their own gain, they are still there and real regardless of how suppressed they might be.

The plan needs free will to be in effect as it incorporates it into the plan. They are the same as you cannot have one without the other. Why else would he sacrifice his only begotten son? To redeem our transgressions that we've made through our right of free will.

But isn't knowing the distinction between good and evil the very base of a moral compass? I understand the rest of what you're saying, but this is not making sense to me atm.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Postulating the existence of a god is not needed to explain the history and the current state of the universe or its future. If your god actually existed then he'd be entirely superfluous - hardly an attribute that would suit what you think of as godly.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

well maybe you don't notice god's influence because you don't pay attention


I find myself arguing for the sake of it

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ramses, eat a Snickers.

Why?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

well maybe you don't notice god's influence because you don't pay attention

I find myself arguing for the sake of it

You're funny.

 

[Evil Eye]

Postulating the existence of a god is not needed to explain the history and the current state of the universe or its future

No one said it does...?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

also zen be on skype more

same for acro

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I killed my own son in order to save resources for the rest of the word, consequently I was awarded with eternal life in penitentiary.

I had all these powers. Unlimited powers really. But I didn't really think about using them. For someone like me, the first thing I think of when I have super powers is to kill my one and only son. Then use his dead body as a spiritual boogy board for everyone else to ride on across the seas of the dead. Sounded like an awesome plan at the time.

I actually trolled Abraham back in Genesis to kill his own son for the lel's, but then I decided that I wanted it to be my son who actually got massacred because it seemed to sit better with me. You know what was also cool? Putting all my chosen people into Egyptian captivity for a couple centuries before that got boring. Although it was fun to troll Moses by hardening the pharaoh's heart each and every time he was about to let them go. I personally enjoyed all the deaths that happened in Exodus. Male Hebrew newborns dying left and right, Egyptian first borns right and left.

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

All Job's possessions are destroyed: 500 yoke of oxen and 500 donkeys carried off by Sabeans; 7,000 sheep burned up by 'The fire of God which fell from the sky'; 3,000 camels stolen by the Chaldeans; and the house of the firstborn destroyed by a mighty wind, killing Job's ten children.

12 The Lord blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys. 13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.

After God kills ten of Job's children, he blesses him by giving him another ten.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Acro you made me laugh irl in a store.