Defeating Pikachu's toughest opponents

[The Halloween Captain]

This thread is to design effective strategies against anti-pikachu characters. These include Marth, the Lylat Trio (Wolf, Fox, Falco), Lucas and Ness, and any other characters which appear particularly difficult.

For example, Marth is all about distancing. You want to either be out of his range, or close enough to launch your next attack. Side-stepping is advised, but watch out for Marth's Dsmash.

All projectiles against the rest of the above characters must be well timed, or they will be taken advantage of. Projectiles are still useful, but only when there is either too little time for the opponent to respond or, in the case of the Lylats, when you can't be hurt by reflector backlash.

 

[gallax]

I just want to say i know i am missing a lot, but this should help.

marth has range on pika...but pika has a projectile(thunderjolt) marth's sweet spot is on the tip of his sword while pika's fmash has a sweetspot nearer the middle. the best way to fight a mrth is to QAC and use your thunderjolt while spamming the dmash whenever he gets close. marth players will try and space pika while comboing with the dancing blades. to beat marth u must learn his spacing and learn how to use the QAC effectively.

as for the laylat trio they are played as so. chaingrab fox as much as you can. pika can chaingrab a fox at 0% and take him all the way to 80%. usually fox players can escape around 80%. my suggestion is at around 73% usmash fox and thunder him. other than that pika' ***** fox. as for wolf and falco...chaingrabbing is possible, but not like one can chaingrab fox. my advice to beating a wolf is to spam the thunderjolt from the air(diagonally) while using the QAC to combo into a fair or even another thunderjolt. also, the dsmash is very effective againt falco. a very good wolf player can usually shield a pika' away from him. wolf's fsmash has great range and falco's throwing shine(idk what its called cuz i never use him) can catch u off guard if you use your thuderjolt or even try and get up close. the thing u have to remember is that their killing move's usually mean them getting in close. this means dsmash and combo an upmash into a thunder. pika's aeriels are better than wolf's but i still advise not to get on top on wolf. wolf's uair can be devastating. as for the lasers, spot dodge falco's and/or jump over wolf's. i believe that pika has an advantage over wolf but is about tied with falco. pika'a may still have a slight advantage over him though.

as for lucas and ness, they are rather difficult. any good player will spam the pk fire until u get close. they can absorb the thuderjolt and even the thunder(at least from what i've read). if u get in close they can punish you with their umash/utilt/dmash. pika is at a disadvantage. when i fight these two characters i try and use my thunderjolts only when i know that they are either going to hit or help me distract. i never spam it due to lucas/ness being able to heal. to get in close one can either QAC or dodge/roll past the pk fire. the dmash is a great damage dealer and grabbing is a plus. usmashing into a thunder seems to be a good combo against anyone. get lucas into the air and your chances inprove. his pk fire cannot be sent diagonally down so you have the chance to get under him and juggle a little. thundering when u have the chance. ness is almost the same, except his pk fire is sent diagonally down. get behind/underneath. dodge and roll to avoid. as for edguarding, lucas is much harder than ness. ness is easily gimped. just let yourself get hit by his upb and ness falls to his doom. lucas' upb goes right through you though so its useless to try and get in front of him while he is trying to recover. try edguarding both of them with your thunder though. look up b-sticking, this ouhgt to help.

 

[strider2k]

A few questions:
What is QAC?
How to chaingrab the space animals meaning which throw to use?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

A few questions:
What is QAC?
How to chaingrab the space animals meaning which throw to use?

QAC is to use the quick attack on the ground, then jump before hitting the ground and after the attack. This allows an immediate air jump which can be used to attack. It is difficult to use.

Pikachu can chain-grab with the forward and up throws, but the forward throw requires dashing.

On another note, what about defeating R.O.B.? He can also cause trouble for Pikachu.

 

[VEC]

MK also beats Pika.

 

[aggrogahu]

I found that I have pretty big problems with Olimar, though Olimars apparently fear Pikachu as well, but anyways; his pikmn are hard to get through, especially since one of them is immune to Thunderjolt. I still try to keep Thunderjolt pressure up though, at a diagonal approach, and just keep readjusting positions until there's an opening.

 

[TehBo49]

For ROB, just take advantage of his slowness. His ground attacks are fast, but his aerials are slow. Try to outcamp him with thunderjolt since he can't spam his projectiles. Whenever he tries to reflect thunderjolts or uses some laggy move, then QAC to him, d-smash, & juggle him in the air. Watch out for his aerials though.

MK isn't as hard as some others. Just camp him alot. Do not play aggressively. U-smash to thunder is the best way to kill him too.

In my opinion, G&W is Pika's hardest matchup. I still can't figure out a way to beat him.

 

[Anther]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RAn7VFQl58c
This is how you beat G&W XD.

jks though. I don't know what to say about Olimar. In general I find them really easy to approach. I've played quite a few online (Which is a lil harder imo...) and can beat the one that gave me trouble when I was new to the matchup. I just play a particularly aggressive approach, and kinda heavy on the grabs. Utilts once you get in are great, especially when you can follow it up with a neutral air. When he's in the air he loses so much power, and pika's not too bad at getting him up there.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

A lot of characters, not just Olimar, also have trouble with a diaganol air approach. From my experience, Olimar will only counter with his teather if you approach like that multiple times, and will have trouble hitting you.

Come to think of it, anything other than a shield grab or some form of dodge seems to just fail when any character attacks from above and an angle.

Of course, there are some obvious exceptions (Marth, Ike).

 

[gallax]

a couple of things first. The QAC stands for quick attack cancel. there are tutorials on it which u should read. a basic description of it is to upB into the ground and jump immediately into a combo. to chaingrab the trio u use dthrow. im not sure if your fthrow works that well. i would think falco could get out of it and wolf could be grabbed a few times until his percentage is too high.

to beat Olimar it has been siad to Tjolt diagonally and try to space the attacks. what i try and do is play an aggressive mixed with a spamming tjolt. when he throws pikmin at you try and spot dodge them and then dsmash them to destroy them. this gives olimar a smaller reach and less pikmin to use which limits his ability to throw a ot of pikmin. if he tries to get more out of the ground try and stop him. QAC to him. when u get in close dsmash and/or grab him. i like to grab him and fthrow him near the edge and try and get him off the stage. as long as he doesnt have pikmin his recover really sucks. basically i try to destroy the pikmin and then i attack. one thing you should know is that the yellow pikmin have like an 80% resistance to pika's electric attacks. try to avoid olimars fmash and dmash.

as for G&W...i will go find out what i can and ccome back.

 

[gallax]

fmor what ive seen and read about G&W its that he loves ariels, the bucket, and the ftiltB. Pika players should really spam tjolt b/c G&W can absorb it and if he gets his bucket full its almost an instanst KO to anyone at any percentage. watch out for that. altough if he does use his bucket there is a lag in which u have an opportunity to get close and punish him. a good strategy is to start spamming the tjolt though if u are at a high perfcentage. your pika will prob die anyways because he has a good KO ability and being able to play defensively when you are at a high percentage is important. let him fill his bucket. just stay back and keep spamming the tjolt and rack up some more damage. he needs to get in close to use the bucket. kinda risky but i would say its worth it to keep spamming tjolt at high percentages. he loves to use his dair, and be advised it can hit twice. if he gets above u just thunder him like you would a TL. something intersting i found out with G&W is that his uair scan juggle really well. pretty much the only way to get out of it is to either air dodge or DI to the end of the stage. pika has an amazing recover so that is a good option. G&W is a hard mathup though. this is just a basic strategy though. try this and see how it works. i would lvoe some feedback.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Filling his bucket is the worst thing you can do.
And spamming after it's full is also not that great.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169446

He can maneuver around it, while canceling out the Tjolt whenever needed. A lot of his moves have projectile stopping properties, so... yeah.

You should only worry about the bucket when you're at low percents or on your last stock. He wont use it if he can just kill you by other means. That being said, dont be too aggressive if you do die, because the bucket kills like nothing else. Try and tech the dthrow if he gets it, because pikachu has a decent time teching in general, especially against the throw.

 

[Press22]

Uhh toon link's own my Pika...

 

[The Halloween Captain]

For ROB, just take advantage of his slowness. His ground attacks are fast, but his aerials are slow. Try to outcamp him with thunderjolt since he can't spam his projectiles. Whenever he tries to reflect thunderjolts or uses some laggy move, then QAC to him, d-smash, & juggle him in the air. Watch out for his aerials though.

MK isn't as hard as some others. Just camp him alot. Do not play aggressively. U-smash to thunder is the best way to kill him too.

In my opinion, G&W is Pika's hardest matchup. I still can't figure out a way to beat him.

That R.O.B. technique makes one slight logic error. ROB's side-B makes it impossible to spam a human opponent without getting jolts reflected in return, and gives him time to charge those so-called "Non-spammable attacks. A technique that I find works is to counter air with ground attacks and ground with air attacks. Even so, I would not typically advise using Pikachu in this up-hill battle.

Uhh toon link's own my Pika...

Have you tried camping, spamming thundershock, and using the thunder wall? The last one, mixed with shielding, should neutralize Dair. Also, try to get as close as possible and punish when Toon link misses with Dair and plants the ground. Dodge The Dair, and make sure you do not get hit by it, or at least make sure it only hits your shield.

 

[Spyckie]

uh... rob's side-b takes forever to pull out, and can easily be punished.

That said, I find rob's dsmash hard to compete against, cause its faster than pikachu's

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

Rob's Side B is an easily punishable move if you come in from above him with a Fair > Up / Down Smash.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Rob's Side B is an easily punishable move if you come in from above him with a Fair > Up / Down Smash.

While that is true, it really can't be punished by a Pikachu that tries to outcamp ROB, which appears to be the most popular tactic against ROB. Using the outcamp tactic would require me to dash accross the stage and attempt to use an air attack on him without getting hit by my own projectile. What would be a good distance to attempt this from, using the out-camp tactic? (preferably relative to the length of Final Destination)

 

[TehBo49]

That R.O.B. technique makes one slight logic error. ROB's side-B makes it impossible to spam a human opponent without getting jolts reflected in return, and gives him time to charge those so-called "Non-spammable attacks. A technique that I find works is to counter air with ground attacks and ground with air attacks. Even so, I would not typically advise using Pikachu in this up-hill battle.

I understand that. That's why I said to punish to the side-b or anything else that lags (like a poorly timed SH d-air). QAC lets you get up to him so fast that you can punish him from the other side of the stage. That's when you start juggling him. You can approach with thunderjolts from the air too. Even if you give ROB time to recharge his projectiles, they're still non-spammable & shouldn't give you too much trouble (except maybe the lasers). All in all, I don't think this match is that disadvantaged to Pika. At least, not as much as some.

@ Spyckie: They are actually about the same speed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Pika's has more priority.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Admittedly, Pikachu has been greatly improved, and it seems like someone with a mastery of the difficult QAC has as much of an advantage in battles as the wavedashers of melee.

Pit can pose problems for Pikachu, and Metanight is recognized as possibly the greatest character in Brawl. What is a good way to get to Pit through his side-B, are there any general tactics against the insanely fast metanight, and when is QAC unaffective so that I do not attempt it futilely?

 

[gallax]

i think that MK is probable one of pika's toughest opponents. his upB comboed into a nair is devastating. the tornado can't be broken with a tjolt, and the thuder is useless cuz a good MK use will tornado near u and not give u time to thunder. he controls the air and his ground game time is relatively short. the only way to be able to stand up against a good MK user is to master the QAC, camp at a good distance fomr him, and destroy MK when the user makes a mistake.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I actually have the easiest times against marth and the spacies.
For marth, just be patient and wait for him to use a laggy attack, shield is your friend, since marth's grabs aren't godly anymore. Doubel fair can be annoying, and he can easily avoid your thunder jolt.

For the trio, f-throw chaingrab, then at the last throw, d-throw them and nair them, works for me every time. Also, what i found as a good spacing tool is qac, but instead of jumping, dair, and you get the aftershock which has quite a bit of range, it will keep them on their toes.

Srsly have no idea what to do against ness and lucas. Hope you can get them off the cliff and gimp them with uair, other than that, no clue.

 

[gallax]

read the first page. i hvae already gone through the laylat trio and lucas/ness. what we need now are some tips fighting MK. ive talk to some others and they tell me to space him. if he uses his upB then get behind and powershield his tornado. but thats all i got. i really do not have a good analysis of MK.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I am lousy at QAC, and find it impossible to use practically online.

However, Metaknight has weaknesses.

His tornado, depending on height, can be used as the start of a D-air against him if you are both high enough (about the height MK's tornado can reach).

Pikachu's dsmash out-priortizes many of even metanight's moves, and MK is unlikely to stay in the air much if thunder is a constant threat.

spamming b helps, as well as dodge-rolling, then punishing his drill.

Pikachu's fsmash has greater range than any of metakinght's moves.

The main thing to remember is to punish the tornado with a d-air when it hits, staying either so far or so close that the tornado isn't practical (at too far a distance, MK will struggle NOT to get airborn) and that a defensive, often super-close or super-far strategy is key with lots of dodge-rolling, d-smash his dodge-rolls into you, grabbing from a roll, and basically punishing any move in which metaknight rolls into you. Dominating characters by forcing them into roll-wars seems to add more to a good Pikachu's skills than even the QAC. Pikachu is awesome at defense, provided the character he opposes can't spam projectiles or significantly outrange him, such as against Metaknight.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

My previous post assumes that the attempter has had enough camping and defencive experience with Pikachu to dominate in matches where the opponent is forced to come to him. This is a specialty of mine, and is extremely powerful, but might not work for everybody, simply because I have had Pikachu experience for literally thousands of matches and several generations of smash. I have yet to see anyone truely tap Pikachu's defend and punish potential, which is both situational, but tremendous against half the cast, considering the lack of it I have seen displayed. Defense is all about anticipation and timing, and brings more to the anticipation of the player than any other tactic. You WILL need to play thousands of matches to reach the level of tactic prediction to outwit ANY metaknight. However, basic defend-and-punish tactics will work between an average Pikachu and an average Metaknight.

 

[gallax]

ive played thousands of matches, but so has my buddies. smash is their life. they fly all around the country to participate in tourney's. they are good. no. unfreakin believable. now they main MK and the other snake. snake was chosen b/c he can kill MK no prob. i can kill snake no prob. and MK can kill me no prob. its a triangle of confusedness. what u tell me to do against MK is not very helpful. MK does his upB into a neutral a. this a cancels his fall from the recovery move and allows him to instantly do anyother attack. usually another upB is dealt or a fmash(upB is more deadly though and used more) getting in close to him is horrible. my dmash is rendered almost completely useless because he can outrange it. my thunder is my only defense but he just has to wait. the tornado thing was usefull, but it still doesnt help me win b/c now he knows that i can beat it so he combos into it. MK just destroys pika.

 

[TehBo49]

For MK, camp him. If you play aggressively. you will lose. Spam thunder jolt. If he use mach tornado, knock him out of it with d-smash or f-smash. If you play smart & defensively, it isn't that bad. IMO Meta Knight has a slight advantage on Pika.

 

[Lucky 1276]

well, possibly zelda or one of the reflector users are what screw me over..since most of pika's b moves are projectiles zelda and the star foxes essentially can gain the upper hand

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

For all you people complaining about reflectors, pikachu's thunder jolt and thunder bolt are NOT his only way to win. It is in fact easy to win without them, i do it all the time. I rarely use thunder now since it has become so predictable, and i play fast characters that i can't thunder jolt. Pikachu has a good close range game.
His nair is amazing, his f-tilt and d-tilt are good spacers, especially with the d-tilt backwards slide, which can mindgame into a f-smash. SHing a fair, landing before it is over i think autocancells it, so you can do that to a grab or d-smash, best two since they are the fastest. The main thing is to read your opponent. If they are being campy, you need to get to them, quickly. If they are rushing, try to mindgame them to get them in off the cliff so you can edgeguard.

 

[iankobe]

Spacies aren't actually that bad.

MK is the worst. I don't know about you guys but MKs are gay in SoCal. Tornados are the worst part.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Spacies aren't actually that bad.

MK is the worst. I don't know about you guys but MKs are gay in SoCal. Tornados are the worst part.

Tornado is broken through by a lot of pikachu's attacks. Dair from the top, D-Smash, and F-Smash all break through it, and they aren't that hard to land.

 

[Anther]

It's true. If your shield is damaged and they tornado, run. They can't outmaneuver you with it. Plus it's only high damage the first time they get you with it, and if you run and get clipped in the end you can be a lot more risky around it. At that point I sit in my shield and release it into a dsmash when they try to poke through it.

 

[Gamble_]

is mario a threat to pikachu?

 

[Aeothera]

It also helps that you can chain-grab the space animals quite effectively.

 

[TehBo49]

is mario a threat to pikachu?

Not really.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

It also helps that you can chain-grab the space animals quite effectively.

Actually, that is probably the best thing they did for any character, matchup wise. You can definantly chain grab up Wolf to at least 70%, with the stale moves penalty.

 

[Roller]

Actually, that is probably the best thing they did for any character, matchup wise. You can definantly chain grab up Wolf to at least 70%, with the stale moves penalty.

Not sure about wolf goin to 70, however I've gotten plenty of fox users to just over 100 (104 if I recall correctly) As long as they don't know that they can shine out of it at about 50. (which many fox players don't)

 

[gallax]

most of the time, for me, wolf's can get out at around 24-30%. wolf user can also use his reflector to get out of it (its not like fox's shine though). his reflector can knowck you back but it also allows for wolf to stall in the air and get out(airdodge or anything really). most foxes dont know about the shine thing either.

 

[festizzio]

I mean I'm no expert on the matchup of Pikachu vs. GaW, but I definitely play him enough to know a basic strategy. I found it's futile to approach him. His bair has a lot of hits strung together, then one final hit before it hits the ground. If you know this you can shield grab him out of it. Also, don't approach him unless you're absolutely sure he won't be able to just run away + bair you. I don't really spam thundershocks, since he can bucket them and then you have to watch out for that all match, but if you must and he buckets it, you should have enough time to run up and grab him.

So basically just play very defensively, shield his approaches, don't thundershock, and learn his moves. If he grabs you press R to tech his dthrow even if he isn't doing a dthrow, that way you won't get caught in any roll-chase -> usmash mindgames.

 

[neji32]

Falco can be chaingrabbed to 70%. I like to Fthrow him about four times the Dthrow the rest to a Usmadh and thundet, its about a 90%(somewhere around there) combo. Though the thunder doesnt always hit.

G&W is about mind games. (BTW Dont do high aerials or you wil be punished). When he least expects it shoot some thunderjolts diagnally. Use the same move ments but instead do Fair to Dsmash. (The G&W usualky expects a thunderjolt if you hit him with it enough)
Counter the Dair to Dsmash/Fsmash with you Dsmash, pikas is faster(not sure about G&W Fsmash). I take G&W,Falco,Ness, and ROB pretty easy. Lucas Fox(all that quick Usmashing) and wolf are my problems.


I always love filling G&Ws bucket. Its pretty easy to dodge if you can learn there movements and fake yourself being open.

 

[gallax]

fox should be no problem. you should really my post on the first page on how to deal with fox. chaingrab him. the thing with lucas is that his tilts are very good and getting around the spammy pkF can get a little nervewrecking. lucas can absorb pika's tjolt and thunder(for 30% i believe) so thats not really a good option to use unless you can combo into it. i like to stay i close to lucas. i get in close by a combination of SH, spotdodging, rolling, and of course the QAC. if you get in close the pkfire threat is minimal due to the long start up time(compartively to his other moves). the usmash hits all around lucas, but if you can shield it or dodge it then lucas is left wide open for attack. the dsmash is something to always watch for. stick to grabbing/dsmash/fsmash. dont go ariel b/c lucas is better in the air than pika. if you must go ariel then stick to fair/dair. do not let lucas get under you b/c he will punish you. when lucas is off the stage you get more options. if he uses his upB(idk the name) then you can use your thunder as an edgeguarding move. if he is aiming for the edge then just grab onto the edge and gimp him(make sure you are timing it though so you have invincibility frames when he hits you).

as for wolf...he is difficult but i think pika has the advantage. chaingrab of course(dthrow). approaching him is easier than you many think. the things that you need to watch out for when fighting wolf is his ftilt/fsmash/usmash. i love using wolf and i mainly use these to rack up damage and kill(including the airiels too). wolf has great reach so stay away from it. his reflector can reflect your tjolt and thunder, but it is not as dangerous as lucas and G&W absorbing it. use the tjolt as a damage racker and play defensively. if wolf get in close then roll dodge into him then dsmash. keep grabbing and fthrow him away. wolf has good priority so try and rack up as much free damage as you can b/c its harder for pika to knocl him out then the other way around. he can kill pika at around 80-90% with a good hit. when playing wolf i notice that pika's uair/nair is effective against him and the fair can be pretty useful. playing wolf is mainly a mindgame i belive though. he doesnt really combo into anything(bthrow into a fsmash is used often though) but i mainly try and set my opponents up into a trap. i use the blaster to wrack up damage too. pika cannot duck below it(which sucks) so just spot dodge or jump over it. use pika's speed over wolfs.