DeDeDe Troubles

[DRaGZ]

Okay, every tournament I have been to, even if I lost with R.O.B. I at least felt like I had control of the match. Not so whenever I play a DeDeDe, whether it's a good DeDeDe (like Nicktendo's) o just not good at all. For some reason, there's something about DeDeDe that makes him a very difficult match-up for me.

I think a primary issue is that it seems really difficult to approach him in any vertical fashion, and approaching him horizontally through the air is very tricky. It turns into a camping game, which R.O.B. eeeeasily has down, but DeDeDe always ends up approaching quickly and effectively enough to make such a game difficult. Thus, you eventually have to go for the kill, which I'm finding extremely hard.

Here's a few things:

1. I usually die by his b-air, dash attack, or the random Gordo (which is sorta rare). In particular, the b-air is because it's just so fast and the dash attack is because it always catches me off guard.

2. I can't seem to gimp him whatsoever. I can keep attacking him as he's floating back, but I can't find any point in his Up+B to attack him effectively, i.e. no super armor, other than his Up +B's descent, which is extremely deadly and risky to approach.

3. Chaingrabbing doesn't work as much on R.O.B. as other characters, but it's still a problem, especially if they're smart enough to end it with a b-throw, which is an instant 16% damage.

4. I think he's unapproachable vertically because of his u-air, d-air, and u-tilt. These consistently have wrecked my approach.

5. His hammer has absurd range. You really really have to take advantage of disjointed hitboxes.

6. He is ****ing heavy. I find it difficult to kill him unless he's beyond 200%.

7. There are basically only two consistent ways I have been killing DeDeDe. One has been through f-smash. The other has been through some attack that sends him up very high followed by Up+B chase and n-air for a ceiling kill.

Every tournament I have been to, I have lost because of King DeDeDe. Everytime I fight a King DeDeDe, I end up doing poorly, regardless of whether I won or lost. Basically, I just feel like I'm not in control of the situation at all. I usually try to at least give my opponent a run for his money, like I'm the boss in a boss fight or something, but with DeDeDe he feels like the boss.

Wtf should I do?

 

[JCaesar]

I haven't played any DDDs so this is purely speculation.

DDD can't be gimped, just from the way his recovery works. You just gotta kill him outright.

He big and tall enough that I would think spot dodge -> upsmash would work on him. That may be a viable KO option. Of course you gotta get in close to pull that off.

 

[DRaGZ]

Up-smash rarely works on anyone, and a good DeDeDe player tends to use the range of his hammer and not get in close. This is part of the reason why R.O.B. is a ****ty vertical killer.

 

[JCaesar]

I understand that, it would be very situational, but I figure if they come at you with a dair, nair, or dash attack, you could probably pull off a spot dodge/powershield -> upsmash. DDD's ftilt and fsmash especially are both pretty laggy, so you could probably roll into him and upsmash (though a good DDD isn't gonna use fsmash when you're just standing in front of him). It just has too much power to ignore, there's gotta be some way to take advantage.

My point really is just that in the situations where ROB would normally dsmash, if you're close enough while facing a tall character like DDD, you could try upsmash instead and go for a lower % kill.

 

[DRaGZ]

But his d-air comes out almost instantly, and it's long enough to screw with my up-smash.

The best way to set up an up-smash for DeDeDe is to dash attack and, if the dash attack hits, follow it up with an up-tilt and an up-smash. Still very situational though; I can't ever seem to successfully get in a dash attack where DeDeDe doesn't block or doesn't DI away.

All in all, it's a really frustrating match. I found that another way to get in a kill on him is up-throw, but he has to be around or over 200% for that to work >_<.

 

[Sarijy]

DDD is supposed to be unstoppable, the plain and simply truth is you just have to top him with damage.
When he throws Waddles at you, just laser them, which will throw them back a bit and hit the big target.
It kind of just turns into a damage fight that ends up in you running away and eventually kicking DDD off for good.
I've successfully kicked him off the stage and guarded him.

 

[looduhcriss]

use Dsmash to get some range and to help keep out of his grabs. Also use ur Fairs a bit more since they are quick and have decent range. Try just approaching with Reverse Bairs to catch them off guard, or just to plain push him farther when hes jumping back to the stage, to sorta "Gimp" his recov in a way.
If all else fails...2ndary character?

 

[Ishoku]

...if a secondary character, then the question is... who?

im thinking a small floaty character... but i dont usually play good DDD's so dont take my opinion into account.

 

[DRaGZ]

DDD is supposed to be unstoppable, the plain and simply truth is you just have to top him with damage.
When he throws Waddles at you, just laser them, which will throw them back a bit and hit the big target.
It kind of just turns into a damage fight that ends up in you running away and eventually kicking DDD off for good.
I've successfully kicked him off the stage and guarded him.

Yes, this usually works, thus his waddle-dees almost never hit me, ever.

The only problem with that tactic is that you grow to depend on the laser as a shield, like a crutch, and then the stray Gordo will hit you in the face. And usually, by that point, you're firing your laser and you have no time to spotdodge it.

It really is just a damage fight when it comes right down to it, and I have faired him all the way to death before, it's just very rare when he has such long-lasting and fast vertical airs.

use Dsmash to get some range and to help keep out of his grabs. Also use ur Fairs a bit more since they are quick and have decent range. Try just approaching with Reverse Bairs to catch them off guard, or just to plain push him farther when hes jumping back to the stage, to sorta "Gimp" his recov in a way.
If all else fails...2ndary character?

F-airing very carefully off the stage, I've found, is the best tactic against DeDeDe offstage. You have to make sure that it's right on level with him, so his vertical airs don't hurt you, and a good deal before his own f-air. He's also somewhat reliably comboed with d-throw/u-throw to up-air.

And f-tilts are way better for spacing than anything else. D-smash is best to just get him out of my face or in the middle of a spotdodge battle.

 

[HoMaLoN]

I aint gonna lie. DDDs or mad gay to kill. they dont die. and yes ROB can get chaingrabbed

 

[omegawhitemage]

This match-up is actually quite simple. Ban FD to start the set. Then all the stages you play will likely have platforms. CAMP UNDER THEM! Especially the platforms close to the side. Then do your best to keep DDD facing the edge you have your back to. This way you can't be chaingrabbed long. And if he is going to land above you time an up smash and they either eat it or land in which case they will sheild and in most cases they drop it right after so they will sometimes eat an up air.

Once they are off the stage go out with your aerial arsenal and make him waste his jumps. Once he up-b's he will either try and get the ledge and you can hit him with a forward smash/tilt. Or they will land on the stage in which case you time a spot dodge and downsmash or forward smash them back out and repeat.

On the ground you can spam your tilts into their sheild and eventually you will get a hit in. Use this opportunity to down smash and get him into the air where you can hopefully combo him off the ledge or at worst you will do some damage.

Your counterpicks usually give you a strong enough advantage where if you lose the first match you should almost certainly win the second. If you use your bans well you can get rid of distant planet and delfino to limit chaingrabbing. I counter pick Lylat(if it's not banned) or mansion, battlefield or Brinstar. They all make comboing the DDD simple.

 

[DRaGZ]

This match-up is actually quite simple. Ban FD to start the set. Then all the stages you play will likely have platforms. CAMP UNDER THEM! Especially the platforms close to the side. Then do your best to keep DDD facing the edge you have your back to. This way you can't be chaingrabbed long. And if he is going to land above you time an up smash and they either eat it or land in which case they will sheild and in most cases they drop it right after so they will sometimes eat an up air.

Once they are off the stage go out with your aerial arsenal and make him waste his jumps. Once he up-b's he will either try and get the ledge and you can hit him with a forward smash/tilt. Or they will land on the stage in which case you time a spot dodge and downsmash or forward smash them back out and repeat.

On the ground you can spam your tilts into their sheild and eventually you will get a hit in. Use this opportunity to down smash and get him into the air where you can hopefully combo him off the ledge or at worst you will do some damage.

Your counterpicks usually give you a strong enough advantage where if you lose the first match you should almost certainly win the second. If you use your bans well you can get rid of distant planet and delfino to limit chaingrabbing. I counter pick Lylat(if it's not banned) or mansion, battlefield or Brinstar. They all make comboing the DDD simple.

I actually do waaaaaaaay better against DeDeDe on FD and Smashville than anywhere else. I think it's primarily because of two reasons:

1. It's waaaay easier for me to spam and harder for DeDeDe to get out of the way.

2. A lot of DeDeDe's junk goes through platforms when he's both above and below them. Obviously, there's stuff to do below, but some of the stuff that surprised me was a d-air getting a bit of its hitbox through the top of the platform as well as the Super DeDeDe Jump's landing impact hitbox to actually go through the top of the platform and hit me. Sure, my stuff goes through really easily as well, but his stuff is way stronger, and when you're dealing damage through platforms, speed is not a big issue.

I've found it much more prudent to just get out of the way of chaingrabs and capitalize on their lag that way. This, along with a few other little things, are making this match-up easier, but still a beast to tackle.

I'm interested to know why the general consensus regarding the Falco vs. ROB matchup is that it is bad for Falco. I've never had too much trouble with ROB -- He's a huge target for lasers, and his spinning reflector move isn't very good. If you can get through his wall of projectiles that he's undoubtedly spamming from off-stage, then he can be spiked as well.

Falco's reflector is invaluable against ROB, and he is even susceptible to variations of the chainthrow (ie. d-throw --> d-air -->repeat OR d-throw --> Dash attack --> U-smash (boosted, or w/e we're calling it these days. lol DLX hit-canceled)

Finally, Falco has some fairly good options for attacking ROB from below should the opportunity present itself, and some good priority to go with them.

I'm not saying that ROB is easily beaten by Falco by any means, and I admit that I haven't played against any really good ROBs, but it seems to me that Falco would do quite well against him, as he has in my experience. OS, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this match-up (as well as anyone else who can contribute)

It's almost single-handedly because when he's off the stage he's ridiculously easy to f-air off. If you've hit Falco off the stage with a f-air while in the air, just jump again, f-air three more times (you'll have to fastfall and use the c-stick), and fly away. Falco can't recover from there for jack, if he hasn't already died.

 

[GI Josh]

I'm pretty sure that ROB can out-camp D3, so you may want to consider doing that

 

[TechnoMonster]

I don't know why you'd really want to camp excessively in this matchup considering DeDeDe's space control. You want to use your f-air pokes and get him in the air a lot, and make good use of your Gyro. Save your laser until its charged.

 

[Nitrix]

The Laser works well against Dedede. On a stage like FD you can out-range him and spam all you want. The Lasers go through alot of his spammage so you don't really have to worry.


Try to make Dedede use his recovery. Once he does, just get under him and roast him with the U-Smash. The only tricky thing is the timing, but you can eventually get it down.


Also, watch the chaingrab. Alot of people have already said great things about avoiding it. You have to really watch your spacing against Dedede. This is fairly easy for ROB though, because he has his jab, D-Smash and his tilts. Use them to keep him off your back.

 

[Liquid_Kai?]

Try get him into the air, It's very hard for a dedede player to land as his dair lags if not done correctly, ts easily punishable. Infact most of the after lag of dededes moves are easily punishable, just make sure you dont get sheild grabbed, as that leads to a loooong CG to Fthrow/ Fsmash.

This match-up is actually quite simple. Ban FD to start the set. Then all the stages you play will likely have platforms. CAMP UNDER THEM! Especially the platforms close to the side. Then do your best to keep DDD facing the edge you have your back to. This way you can't be chaingrabbed long. And if he is going to land above you time an up smash and they either eat it or land in which case they will sheild and in most cases they drop it right after so they will sometimes eat an up air.

I think platforms are easier for a dedede player as he is so tall you could easily uptilt ROB to a Uair etc. But yes i prefere FD to battlefeild with most matchups because of the platforms but i recon i'd happily play ROB on BF aswell.

I dont have enough experience with this matchup but i'll try look into it.

 

[DRaGZ]

In my experience, you don't really want DeDeDe in the air with his back facing you. You have a chance if his front is facing you to approach, but generally the best strategy is to camp and projectile spam him all day (which you have the clear advantage with) and then look for or force and opening to kill him.

 

[T Bird]

I have found this matchup increadably hard just because dedede can chain grab for good damage, his back airs are pretty fast and powerful and he's RIDICULOUSLY heavy. It's really quite hard to kill him, but he's got huge hammer range and power in some attacks to kill at really LOW damage, even on Rob. His Up B is a great recovery, and my poor gyro keeps getting blocked by waddel dees... sad. Anywho, if you really want to have an alternate character I have been told that Olimar is the way to go if you want to slaughter Dedede.

 

[JCaesar]

DDD's up-B is his biggest weakness. It can always be punished. Just wait till after he reaches the peak and his super armor goes away.

 

[Sudai]

Don't wait for that. FAir or NAir him on the way up, USmash or UAir when he comes down. It's too easy. You could be really brave and do rising UAir on the way up to another UAir when he starts coming down. I've never managed to do it without being spiked down though. I believe it's wholly possible to do, I just need to get the timing down better. 35% damage if the first one is fresh. Better than any other options when he's at a low percent, imo.

 

[the Lexx]

If DDD is to the point where he has to recover low jump backwards off the stage and bair him (he can't usually dodge because of his fall speed.)

Gyros also stop waddle dees iirc, throw a weak one in front of you and camp until he approaches.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

Gyros also stop waddle dees iirc, throw a weak one in front of you and camp until he approaches.

But DDD can jump and throw a waddle dee. If he does that laser the waddle dee or D3

 

[Sudai]

But DDD can jump and throw a waddle dee. If he does that laser the waddle dee or D3

Or laser both. It's too easy. ; )

 

[soloSHADOWROB]

This match-up is actually quite simple. Ban FD to start the set. Then all the stages you play will likely have platforms. CAMP UNDER THEM! Especially the platforms close to the side. Then do your best to keep DDD facing the edge you have your back to. This way you can't be chaingrabbed long. And if he is going to land above you time an up smash and they either eat it or land in which case they will sheild and in most cases they drop it right after so they will sometimes eat an up air.

Once they are off the stage go out with your aerial arsenal and make him waste his jumps. Once he up-b's he will either try and get the ledge and you can hit him with a forward smash/tilt. Or they will land on the stage in which case you time a spot dodge and downsmash or forward smash them back out and repeat.

On the ground you can spam your tilts into their sheild and eventually you will get a hit in. Use this opportunity to down smash and get him into the air where you can hopefully combo him off the ledge or at worst you will do some damage.

Your counterpicks usually give you a strong enough advantage where if you lose the first match you should almost certainly win the second. If you use your bans well you can get rid of distant planet and delfino to limit chaingrabbing. I counter pick Lylat(if it's not banned) or mansion, battlefield or Brinstar. They all make comboing the DDD simple.

Nah bro, D3 is just a hard match-up for ROB period.
Anyone who says other wise hasnt played a very good D3 yet.
FD is a good level too ban but then they have so many other choices to go with like Green Greens, Delfino and others.
I mean I have done good against like Teba and Aero who are the best in SoCal (I needa fight M2K to see how I fair against him though, cuz I know hes hella good too)
But all in all the ROB player definetly has to try harder to get the kill and the win against D# just like he has to try hard against MK and G&W.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

The trick to beating D3 is to go to a camping extreme. Dont stop camping and you might have a chance of beating him

 

[d snyde]

Why cant you get close to D3? Why not just battle him up close?

 

[Sudai]

Chaingrab.

 

[DRaGZ]

The only two times it's pretty safe to get close to DeDeDe is:

1. In the air when he's facing you, which is rare considering he can easily turn around anytime he wants. Even when he IS facing you, you have to be fast and unpredictable.

2. When he's performing his up+B.

That's like...it man. If you try to approach him on the ground, you're ****ed because every DeDeDe is highly trained in the art of grabbing/pivot-grabbing and will **** you with his *** all the way across the stage.

Platforms are thus a GODSEND against DeDeDe because it gives you waaaaaay more options to approach him while you're on the ground. Otherwise, if you're on FD or SV or something, prepare for a camping war.